Tooj Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 Got to admire the way Wenger goes about the footballing side of things, but you can't look past Fergie's trophy record iyam. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest teepee Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 both are top managers - the best there is, but in their own diffenrent ways. i voted ferguson because of his consistency, which is slightly better than the frog's. but i really do admire wengers ability to find top players early on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Monkey Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 Ferguson. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karjala Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 Peter Reid. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronky Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 It's just sinking in, 37 bloody trophies. Most managers go through their careers not winning anything. 10 would put you up in the elite. I'd be pretty sure that the number two would be Bob Paisley, with 19 ie half that number. I've got a nerdy desire to compile the top 10 when I've got time. That's unless someone beats me to it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guyb Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 Ferguson. If Arsenal don't win the league or the champions cup this season then that will be three trophyless years on the spin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GM Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 Both are masters of psychological warfare, tactically astute, strong, ruthless. Wenger is the more reptilian of the two. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GAMMELL Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 Steve 'f*ckin ' Staunton Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slugsy Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 Ferguson, his achievments at Man Utd are brilliant and legendary but what he did at Aberdeen given the resources and position of that club was nothing short of astonishing - beating Real Madrid in a Cup Winers Cup Final! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUPERTOON Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 Wenger Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Edd Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 Given the resources they have to work with, Wenger hands down. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mowen Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 Fergie. More of a natual winner than Wenger. Although what Wenger has done with the money he's spent is incredible, although in some ways it's a failing of him imo - if they'd signed the odd £20m player here and there over the years they would have won a fair bit more imo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LucaAltieri Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 Fergie. More of a natual winner than Wenger. Although what Wenger has done with the money he's spent is incredible, although in some ways it's a failing of him imo - if they'd signed the odd £20m player here and there over the years they would have won a fair bit more imo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gash Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 Fergie. More of a natual winner than Wenger. Although what Wenger has done with the money he's spent is incredible, although in some ways it's a failing of him imo - if they'd signed the odd £20m player here and there over the years they would have won a fair bit more imo. I do understand what your saying, for instance, if Arsenal went in for Kaka now, after Keith Edelman came out and say Arsene has the money to buy ANY player he wants (a reported £70m) how great could/would this team become and how much could it achieve! But its not Arsene's way, and i respect that! But if hes reading i wouldnt mind Kaka to play behind Adebayor Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 Taken me a long time to answer my own question, but I wanted to properly think about it. The best way to look at it I think is to compare the two in numerous areas of the game: Past Record Wenger won a league and cup at Monaco having shown what he could do with a decent league performance with Nancy. Ferguson won the Scottish League and Cup with Aberdeen, breaking up the Celtic and Rangers dominance, before going on to win the Cup Winners' Cup. Immediacy of success Fergie took 4 years to win the FA Cup at Manyoo, 5 years to win first European trophy, 6 years to win first League Cup, 7 years to win first league, and 13 years to win European Cup. Wenger took two years to win league and cup double with Arsenal. Overall English success Wenger: 3 Leagues, 4 FA Cups (1 in 4 leagues, 1 in 3 FA Cups won) - 0.58 trophies per season Ferguson: 9 Leagues, 5 FA Cups, 2 League Cups, 1 Champions League, 1 Cup Winners Cup (1 in 2.4 leagues, 1 in 4.4 FA Cups, and two League Cups and two European trophies every 11 years.) - 0.82 trophies per season Young Players Wenger has developed a lot of raw talent into very good players. But a lot of his success relies on large quantities of youngsters increasing competition and increasing probabilities of there being one gem within a large group of players. For every Fabregas, there are three or four players who fall by the wayside. Ferguson's early success was helped by young talent from his own academy. Today, he brings young players in at a slightly older and slightly more proven stage for more money, but as of now, these players have been better than all of Arsenal's youngsters bar Fabregas. Quality of players I'd say that the following players have been amongst the top three in the world in their position at some point during their spell at either Arsenal or Manchester United: Arsenal: Seaman, Viera, Bergkamp, Henry Manchester United: Schmeichel, Cantona, Giggs, Beckham, Van Nistelrooy, Ronaldo, Scholes, Gary Neville It is easy to argue that is testament to Wenger as he is guiding players with less natural ability to trophies, but I disagree, if you are managing your team to some sort of league and cup dominance, some of your players should look world class regardless of natural ability. Lesser Players Neither manager can play an amazing team 100% of the time, but when a lesser squad player leaves Arsenal, they often turn out to be good enough to play for the first team of a top flight club. Meanwhile numerous squad players that looked good at Manyoo leave to other clubs and turn out to be a complete turkey. Fergie therefore seems to get more out of worser players, while Wenger has himself a larger pool of first team players. Evolution Both managers have managed to rebuild a successful team out of the remnants of a previous team. Wenger has done exceptionally well in that he created a new team from scratch. However it is said that Fergie was going to retire because he thought the game was evolving away from his preferred style of management. Opting not to retire, he successfully adapted by building a quality coaching team to surround him. Wenger has never really shown an ability to adapt between eras. Buying Players Fergie has consistently been able to attract more polished players than Wenger, with fewer snubs in the process. Keeping players You only leave Manchester United if you are shit, or if Fergie wants to make long term changes to the way the team plays. Players have historically left Arsenal for career purposes. Seeing the team past the finishing post Much less near-misses for Fergie. Quality of Football Both managers play exciting and attractive football. Mentality Arsenal are still the bad losers that Robson described. Both teams may moan and sulk on match day, especially if things haven't worked out, but Manyoo have more often turned a negative into a positive by the next match, but Arsenal have less bounce back ability, and this has made many of their seasons less successful than they should have been. Taking all into account, Fergie wins for me. Probably the worst time to start the poll last night though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 worser Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sima Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 Wenger. You have to admire the football that they play and how they rarely, if ever, succumb to playing the type of football that every other team does in Europe (including Man Utd). Wenger's stuck to his guns and it's finally started to work. Yeah. I like that fact in the modern game he's able to change his entire squad and gamble on youth and still bring out a CL qualifying team every season. Some of the players he's lost. I mean we lose one (Shearer) and we fall apart. Fergie struggles to replace. He hit lucky with Ronaldo thanks to SBR more than anyone, but really so much money has been thrown at his manu team over the years how could he fail? So much bullshit in that one sentence I don't know where to start. Ferguson probably the best manager in history so him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 Fergie struggles to replace? Yes, he's had a few transfer misses but he's built at least 2 or 3 distinct world-class teams. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LucaAltieri Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 Agree with most of that, but: Quality of players I'd say that the following players have been amongst the top three in the world in their position at some point during their spell at either Arsenal or Manchester United: Arsenal: Seaman, Viera, Bergkamp, Henry Manchester United: Schmeichel, Cantona, Giggs, Beckham, Van Nistelrooy, Ronaldo, Scholes, Gary Neville Gary fucking Neville, one of the best 3 right-backs in the world? Fucking hell. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 worser Typing a lot quickly into a teeny quick reply box means thhat you can hardly expect me to notice if I accidentally press two letters at the same time Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 Agree with most of that, but: Quality of players I'd say that the following players have been amongst the top three in the world in their position at some point during their spell at either Arsenal or Manchester United: Arsenal: Seaman, Viera, Bergkamp, Henry Manchester United: Schmeichel, Cantona, Giggs, Beckham, Van Nistelrooy, Ronaldo, Scholes, Gary Neville Gary fucking Neville, one of the best 3 right-backs in the world? Fucking hell. I'd say he was around about 1997. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LucaAltieri Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 Agree with most of that, but: Quality of players I'd say that the following players have been amongst the top three in the world in their position at some point during their spell at either Arsenal or Manchester United: Arsenal: Seaman, Viera, Bergkamp, Henry Manchester United: Schmeichel, Cantona, Giggs, Beckham, Van Nistelrooy, Ronaldo, Scholes, Gary Neville Gary fucking Neville, one of the best 3 right-backs in the world? Fucking hell. I'd say he was around about 1997. and I'd say Stuart Pearce was better than Roberto Carlos... doesn't make it true though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sima Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 See I love this utterly clueless mentality that suggests Gary Neville isn't world class when has consistently performed for one of the worlds best teams over a 10 year period. Probably the best English right-back of all time as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest louiseville_lip Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 Fergie struggles to replace? Yes, he's had a few transfer misses but he's built at least 2 or 3 distinct world-class teams. A few? I could name 2 teams full of flops he's signed quite easily. I think Arsene Wenger is the best manager in the world in the last 30 years quite comfortably. There have been many great managers, Capello, Fergie, Rinus Michels, Sacchi, but can any of them say they've been succesful playing beautiful expansive football alligned with actually being in the black on transfer dealing over a decade??!?!? Can any of them say they've went a whole season unbeaten as well as building not one, two, but three succesful teams, as well as utterly changing the culture of training and dieting not just at one club, but one which has been adopted across the board. If there's ever been a better manager than Wenger I'm yet to see or know of him. Ferguson of course is a great manager, he did it with Aberdeen as well, but Wenger for me has the edge. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LucaAltieri Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 See I love this utterly clueless mentality that suggests Gary Neville isn't world class when has consistently performed for one of the worlds best teams over a 10 year period. Probably the best English right-back of all time as well. Put him in any other squad and he'd be no better than average. Solid? yes. Best in the world? Not a chance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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