Birmingham City 1 - 1 Newcastle - 17/03/08 - post match reaction from page 28

[Baggio]

I'm not sure why people think it should be a case of Owen or Martins to come off when both looked a fair bit better than Viduka.

[KaKa]

Quote from: KaKa on Today at 12:32:32 AM

If Keegan wanted another body in midfield he should have taken off Owen.

 

 

Take the one player off who looked capable of troubling their keeper....fantastic logic.

 

You really are a f*ckwit aren't you?

 

Oh yeah, because Martins didn't look capable of troubling the keeper right?

 

What a stupid thing to say! Actually Martins looked more capable of troubling the keeper than Owen did.

 

Stop making stuff up in your head man.

[Dave]

Hope to see both Owen and Martins playing more often. Both played well last night.

[KaKa]

Unfortunately, both Sam and Keegan seem to want to play a bigger striker up front, so it does seem as though it will be a case of either Martins or Owen.

 

Keegan went with a 4-4-2 yesterday with Martins on the left and it was poor in the first half, as Oba stayed wide.

 

In the second half, due to his frustration with our poor play and the fact we were getting beat, Martins basically decided to play upfront with Viduka and Owen, and didn't stay wide at all. It led to us getting a goal back, but then we started losing shape and so Keegan took off Martins.

 

At no point was it Keegans intention to play a 4-3-3.

 

Therefore, if Martins stays out wide does the second 45 minutes then resemble the first 45? Would we then have folded as per usual?

 

I was happy/relieved by the result yesterday, but I am worried that the formation didn't really work till Martins essentially decided to vacate his position, which Keegan didn't appear to want him to do. If Martins didn't do it though, I think we would have played like we did in the first half and lost.

 

So yes, Keegan ought to pay Martins and Owen, but he will want either Viduka or Smith up there with one of them, and for me it has to be Martins.

 

Simple.

[Shak]

Unfortunately, both Sam and Keegan seem to want to play a bigger striker up front, so it does seem as though it will be a case of either Martins or Owen.

 

Keegan went with a 4-4-2 yesterday with Martins on the left and it was poor in the first half, as Oba stayed wide.

 

In the second half, due to his frustration with our poor play and the fact we were getting beat, Martins basically decided to play upfront with Viduka and Owen, and didn't stay wide at all. It led to us getting a goal back, but then we started losing shape and so Keegan took off Martins.

 

At no point was it Keegans intention to play a 4-3-3.

 

Therefore, if Martins stays out wide does the second 45 minutes then resemble the first 45? Would we then have folded as per usual?

 

I was happy/relieved by the result yesterday, but I am worried that the formation didn't really work till Martins essentially decided to vacate his position, which Keegan didn't appear to want him to do. If Martins didn't do it though, I think we would have played like we did in the first half and lost.

 

So yes, Keegan ought to pay Martins and Owen, but he will want either Viduka or Smith up there with one of them, and for me it has to be Martins.

 

Simple.

 

Martins switched into a central position during the first half and Owen dropped deeper when it became clear the original plan wasn't working. Long before the second half.

 

I'm going to credit Keegan, rather than Martins, with the tactical reshuffle personally.

[Guest alex]

How do you know that Kaka? Just making stuff up. It's just a coincidence the side looked better after the half time team talk then? What a load of shit.

[Guest JamesD]

You seem to make a lot of statements that could require some back, such as "At no point was it Keegans intention to play a 4-3-3."  While Keegan said "We said at half time to the players that if you lose this game to a goal like that without showing a bit more creativity, then I’ve picked the wrong side." Seems to imply that 4-3-3 was his intention, and you've just been talking out of your ass.

[KaKa]

Well it didn't look like a 4-3-3 to me at all.

 

Geremi was clearly wide right all the time with Beye, Owen never came out wide and neither did Viduka.

 

Martins joined in through the middle and Enrique didn't have any support wide left and so for the most part kept punting it up the pitch.

 

That was what the second half looked like.

 

In the first half however, Martins was out wide the majority of the time and I didn't see anything happening upfront between Viduka and Owen. We had one shot on goal the whole of the first half!

 

Certainly looked like Martins just decided to stay through the middle in the second half to me.

 

If it was a 4-3-3, which striker was playing wide right then? Certainly not Owen or Viduka.

 

I'm concerned about our formation to say the least.

[SUPERTOON]

Another point about the game how bad were Geremi's corners he was rubbish on them all night

[colinmk]

From what I saw it essentially started out as a 4-4-2 but it seemed obvious that KK told Oba to get forward and support them as much as possible. When he did this Joey Barton was then going out left quite a lot to cover there and then in the 2nd half we saw Owen dropping deeper to give further support to midfield when Oba was up front. It worked well in the 2nd half and for me is a good way of utilising our best players in a workable formation.

[Guest JamesD]

Owen was most dropping deep to the right a lot in the second half. I saw it, but I'm guessing you didn't. And our 4-3-3 is never going to be the same shape as Barca's or what chelsea used to have because their two wide attackers are natural midfielders, while ours are strikers.

[KaKa]

Well I really hope that is indeed the case and we see something similar to the second half the rest of the way then.

 

On this one occassion I would love to be wrong, as I am a bit worried that with yesterday's lineup we didn't really seem to have a set of strikers 100% certain of their positons and roles upfront.

[madras]

Owen was most dropping deep to the right a lot in the second half. I saw it, but I'm guessing you didn't. And our 4-3-3 is never going to be the same shape as Barca's or what chelsea used to have because their two wide attackers are natural midfielders, while ours are strikers.

not just to the right but through the middle. he doesn't give the ball away much either.

 

has to be said he is a fetch and carry in his own half where as on occasion martins can make something happen from there.

[Guest float one in]

Disappointed at the time when Obs went off, but absolutely won't hold it against Keegan, cause the point gained is justification enough.

 

I think he was right not to take Viduka off - although he was absolutely knacked in the last 30 mins, he was the only one making it stick up front. Since the centre mids can't consistently use the ball that well Viduka's control and holding up of the ball is just what we need (just til the end of this this season mind!). One of either Owen or Martins had to come off for Zogs, as there was acres of space down their right hand side, and it was highly likely that they'd push on a bit it the closing stages, which is exactly how it turned out. Alright, Martins was looking dangerous but Owen scored the goal and he was making space very well all the way through the second half. I just hope Oba hasn't gone in a huff, cos he did a good job for us in the second half and we need him like that from the start  on Saturday.

 

Massive psychological boost to come from behind in a relegation six pointer, away from home against a team who've looked alright recently. To take Viduka off would have been to stop the ball sticking up front, inviting them to come straight back at us - we just couldn't risk losing. Not so much for the point (although that could still be vital) but for the absolutely massive blow it would have been to moral ahead of Fulham.

 

Me and the lads looked at eachother when their keeper made that save frm Owen at 1-0 and I'm sure we were thinking exactly the same thing - "that was the chance". To finish the match with a draw is absolutely brilliant. Well done KK for getting them up for the second half (cos in the first they were the same disjointed, heartless, useless rabble we've been used to) and for seeing us through for the point.

[Guest Toepoke]

Another point about the game how bad were Geremi's corners he was rubbish on them all night

 

Very true, he didn't get it beyond the first man for the whole of the scond half, very disappointing he did this at the start of the season aswell nobody seems to have realised he can't actually take a corner.

 

I thought the 4-3-3 worked alright last night, the three in the middle were poor however, Geremi has totally lost his pace, Barton can't pass or dribble it was a bad performance. In the mean time Nicky Butt ran about alot without producing very much. IMO Habib Beye didn't have one of his better games last night his crossing was absolutely dire and every time he tried to control the ball it seemed to bounce up in front of him, must do better.

 

Conclusion from this game- Better but nowhere near good enough.

[KaKa]

Read Keegans comments on the official site (or was it in the Journal), and he said that it was 433 and that Owen was told to drop a little deeper.

 

If that is indeed the case then that is good news for sure, and I hope we then continue to work on this formation in training and try and push on with it and get some consistency.

 

 

[BlueStar]

Was worried for a second when Martins was coming off muttering to himself, he reached down and pulled his shirt up and I thought he might be about to go Shane Long on Keegan but he was just wiping his face...

[Pilko]

Joey Barton was shit.

 

That is all.

[Mick]

Keegan made more changes to our formation last night than I can remember us doing for a long time, it wasn't just a case of throwing 11 players onto the pitch and hoping that something would happen, we actually used various tactics until something worked then we put Birmingham under a lot of pressure.

 

For me, last night was the best we've been this season tactically which was a surprise considering we have a manager who is supposed to be tactically naive.

 

[Guest fraser]

Keegan made more changes to our formation last night than I can remember us doing for a long time, it wasn't just a case of throwing 11 players onto the pitch and hoping that something would happen, we actually used various tactics until something worked then we put Birmingham under a lot of pressure.

 

For me, last night was the best we've been this season tactically which was a surprise considering we have a manager who is supposed to be tactically naive.

 

 

Couldn't agree more. 4-3-3 or 4-3-1-2 in possession to 4-4-2 defending to a conventional 4-4-2 going forward and 4-5-1 defending. I though we were very fluid in formation and in the second-half the players looked capable of it. And both full backs had a really good second-half.

[Robster]

Keegan made more changes to our formation last night than I can remember us doing for a long time, it wasn't just a case of throwing 11 players onto the pitch and hoping that something would happen, we actually used various tactics until something worked then we put Birmingham under a lot of pressure.

 

For me, last night was the best we've been this season tactically which was a surprise considering we have a manager who is supposed to be tactically naive.

 

 

Couldn't agree more. 4-3-3 or 4-3-1-2 in possession to 4-4-2 defending to a conventional 4-4-2 going forward and 4-5-1 defending. I though we were very fluid in formation and in the second-half the players looked capable of it. And both full backs had a really good second-half.

 

Reading those last 2 posts actually gets me excited about the future.

[Mowen]

Hope to see both Owen and Martins playing more often. Both played well last night.

 

I agree. Saw some real promise in that as a partnership, particularly second half.

[Colocho]

Owen and Martins must be our first choice strike partnership, we don't need a big man up with them at all times.

[Pilko]

I think we should all just be thankful that Smith was dropped, whether or not you think Viduka is worth his place in the starting line-up.

I for one hope he starts against Fulham, might be a chance for him to get back on the goal trail.

[TRon]

Keegan made more changes to our formation last night than I can remember us doing for a long time, it wasn't just a case of throwing 11 players onto the pitch and hoping that something would happen, we actually used various tactics until something worked then we put Birmingham under a lot of pressure.

 

For me, last night was the best we've been this season tactically which was a surprise considering we have a manager who is supposed to be tactically naive.

 

 

Good point. I thought Viduka should have been replaced, not Martins until the point was made that Viduka was buying us space by holding the ball up the field.