Owen in a deeper role - could it be the way forward?

[Robster]

Only Kevin Keegan could convert someone like Owen into a midfielder and get some joy out of it - madness

 

If anything it just extends my faith in the man.

 

It just shows that maybe Allardyce's fascination with stats, science, diet etc in the end counts for bollox all and really what counts is a football brain to spot something like this on the training ground. This isnt something that Sams computer read outs could have thought of.

For me, it just confirms that Kevin still has an excellent eye and a brain for spotting a players skill and where best to use it on the pitch

[Guest Knightrider]

Understanding! That's what it boils down to, understanding your own players, the game in general and the strengths and weaknesses of your own team and KK is very adept at that which is half the battle. I won't knock Big Sam because his ways are his own and they are proven and would have worked here giving time but I'm very happy KK hasn't lost any of his understanding of the game.

[La Parka]

Only Kevin Keegan could convert someone like Owen into a midfielder and get some joy out of it - madness

 

If anything it just extends my faith in the man.

 

I must say, it could turn out to improve his and our game completely. It seems Keegan and OWen see this as beneficial and I can see it becoming a permanent fixture. Impressive that Keegan saw this, good luck to him and Owen. He has been far more effective the last two games, thats for sure.

[ChezGiven]

Great decision by Keegan but not exactly 'genius' to apply something from your own career to a physically similar player. Still shows he has more about his management skills than most give him credit for.

 

Keegan was twice the player Owen ever was, his praise for him is a bit over the top imo.

[Guest Knightrider]

Great decision by Keegan but not exactly 'genius' to apply something from your own career to a physically similar player.

 

Maybe not but it does say a lot about his persuasiveness and his ability to analyse things which should bode well for us, hopefully.

[WhatTheFunk]

Great decision by Keegan but not exactly 'genius' to apply something from your own career to a physically similar player.

 

Maybe not but it does say a lot about his persuasiveness and his ability to analyse things which should bode well for us, hopefully.

 

and if Owen is into this change, then it also speaks volumes about him as a footballer who is genuinely trying to do well in this Newcastle team.

[Guest Knightrider]

Great decision by Keegan but not exactly 'genius' to apply something from your own career to a physically similar player.

 

Maybe not but it does say a lot about his persuasiveness and his ability to analyse things which should bode well for us, hopefully.

 

and if Owen is into this change, then it also speaks volumes about him as a footballer who is genuinely trying to do well in this Newcastle team.

 

And save his career... I will never ever trust Owen, he's as selfish as they come and will do anything that helps his own cause. Better than nothing though and most players are like that anyway.

[Guest rebel_yell12]

I have to ask, CoachHTT, how you know Owen is "as selfish as they come"?  As a player, he hasn't looked it for Newcastle, certainly not of late. 

 

If you're speaking of him personally, then I really MUST ask how you know.  He's always come across as very concerned about others -- his family, friends, teammates, and loads of charities (especially various children's charities).  It is my pet peeve to criticise the character of a person that I'd rather wager you've never met.  Maybe he is a horrible little troll of a person, I don't know.  But the visible evidence seems to indicate otherwise:  he's very well-liked, and those who have met him are invariably highly complimentary (I can think of only one exception, and that was a journalist who walked up to him at a horse-race and was shocked that Owen merely said he wasn't giving interviews, then the lad walked away). 

[Skirge]

Owen & Martins as 2 play makers its pure genius on KK's part.

[Wullie]

Let's not get carried away as usual. We've beaten Fulham. Long way to go before we start championing this as the future. Against better midfielders, there's every chance Owen dropping deep will simply disappear. I think it's the way to go until the end of the season though, mainly because you can't drop any of the three strikers. If all three stay fit, he'll have some big decisions to make when Milner and Emre return. That's if we ever see Emre again like.

[KaKa]

I know people keep referring to this formation as a 4-3-3, but wasn't it really more of a 4-4-2 diamond formation with Owen playing at the peak of the diamond, just behind Martins and Viduka?

[Robster]

Great decision by Keegan but not exactly 'genius' to apply something from your own career to a physically similar player.

 

Maybe not but it does say a lot about his persuasiveness and his ability to analyse things which should bode well for us, hopefully.

 

and if Owen is into this change, then it also speaks volumes about him as a footballer who is genuinely trying to do well in this Newcastle team.

 

And save his career... I will never ever trust Owen, he's as selfish as they come and will do anything that helps his own cause. Better than nothing though and most players are like that anyway.

 

That applies to probably 99% of footballers so we cant hold that against the lad. Its part of a modern day footballers make up - especially with ruthless agents pulling all the strings.

Reverse the role and imagine for discussions sake that the club involved was Liverpool and you were the Owen type player (but still have NUFC in your blood). Would you have anything other than your own interests at heart. I bet you wouldnt think twice about Liverpool as a club or their fans

[KaKa]

That number 10 shirt also seems to make a lot more sense now, with Owen's deeper role.

 

Maybe subconsciously he always knew this would happen.

 

Freaky ...  

[Tachikoma]

I know people keep referring to this formation as a 4-3-3, but wasn't it really more of a 4-4-2 diamond formation with Owen playing at the peak of the diamond, just behind Martins and Viduka?

 

We are a left winger short for the 4-4-2, I guess.

[madras]

I know people keep referring to this formation as a 4-3-3, but wasn't it really more of a 4-4-2 diamond formation with Owen playing at the peak of the diamond, just behind Martins and Viduka?

in the first half,for maybe 30mins the front 3 rotated a fair bit. sometime viduka would be left most,owen right and martins through the middle then as play developed they'd move again and stay therein a defensive capacity.

[TRon]

Let's not get carried away as usual. We've beaten Fulham. Long way to go before we start championing this as the future. Against better midfielders, there's every chance Owen dropping deep will simply disappear. I think it's the way to go until the end of the season though, mainly because you can't drop any of the three strikers. If all three stay fit, he'll have some big decisions to make when Milner and Emre return. That's if we ever see Emre again like.

 

I'd agree with this. Against the weaker teams this formation has worked great because they will give us the ball back quite regulary so no need to press all over the pitch. The better teams have fast competitive midfielders which will probably over-run us if we have only three midfielders in there.

 

What I would say is that Owen has shown just what a clever footballer he is and there's definitely a role for him in a Beardsley role, i.e. a striker who plays off the main front man. Could see him working with Viduka obviously, but also I'm now convinced an Owen/Martins strike partnership could work.

[KaKa]

I think the key thing is that Owen will need a very explosive and quick striker alongside him. He can then continue to drop deep and link play and get into goal scoring positions given the opportunity to do so, and his partner upfront can be the one relied upon to stretch defences in behind.

 

Owen should no longer be asked to play on the shoulder of defender to try and get in behind them because he just doesn't do this as well anymore due to his loss of pace.

 

Like Tron says Owen and Martins looks to have a lot more potential given this development.

 

Owen alongside just one other striker with a lack of explosiveness and pace should no longer be an option for us anymore i.e. the likes of Smith and Viduka.

 

Therefore we should steer well clear of the likes of Crouch and Ashton this summer, unless Keegan wants to continue with this exact formation with Owen behind Oba and another striker.

[STM]

I like the idea of Owen having a permenant "Bergkamp" role. What people often forget about Owen is that regardless of whether he's the best striker we have, he's also the best footballer we have.

 

When he collects the ball in a deeper position he rarely gives it away and more often than not starts an attack. What is also good about this position is that it allows him run for deep and arrive late into the box, which suits "the goalscorer" in Owen.

 

With Owen in this position, we can leave the debate about whether he's the same goalscorer for another day. What you can be assured of is that playing in this position he would chip in 10/15 goals a season anway.

[Guest teepee]

i also like the idea of owen behind oba and a strong striker.

 

the only real fear i have is that it will result in charlie leaving us this summer.

[STM]

i also like the idea of owen behind oba and a strong striker.

 

the only real fear i have is that it will result in charlie leaving us this summer.

 

I like N'Zogbia BUT if he wants to leave he can as far as i'm concerned. He's going to be a good player somewhere but his attitude seems to stink and there's plenty more fish in the sea.

 

If we can recoup 8/9m and sell him to a FOREIGN club then i think it's a canny bit of buisness.

[Cronky]

The problems that Keegan had with Owen, when he was England manager, arose when he was trying to persuade him to drop deeper. From Owen's own comments in the World Cup, Eriksson also had a problem in trying to peruade Owen out of a purely poacher's role.

 

Owen at last now seems prepared to give it a try, but I've begun to wonder whether that is anything to do with the change in style that Capello is bringing to the England team. He made it very clear by his actions in the last game that he was only going to play with one out and out striker, and it wasn't going to be Owen. The message was - you have to adapt to this system, or you're not getting in.

 

I know I'm a miserable old cynic, and ultimately if it benefits us, then fine. But Owen's new found enthusiasm to try something different may not be down to KK alone.

[steve_69]

Perhaps, but maybe Owen has actually realised that he's not the player he used to be. His game used to rely on pace and technique. Since he's lost much of the former he has to rely more on the latter. It's very commendable on his part that he's happy to give it a go.

[Guest rebel_yell12]

The problems that Keegan had with Owen, when he was England manager, arose when he was trying to persuade him to drop deeper. From Owen's own comments in the World Cup, Eriksson also had a problem in trying to peruade Owen out of a purely poacher's role.

 

Owen at last now seems prepared to give it a try, but I've begun to wonder whether that is anything to do with the change in style that Capello is bringing to the England team. He made it very clear by his actions in the last game that he was only going to play with one out and out striker, and it wasn't going to be Owen. The message was - you have to adapt to this system, or you're not getting in.

 

I know I'm a miserable old cynic, and ultimately if it benefits us, then fine. But Owen's new found enthusiasm to try something different may not be down to KK alone.

 

Or it could be simple f***ing frustration with the midfield dross.  He came right out and said in an interview just after the Fulham match that there had been matches where he'd felt (and apparently so had Keegan) that he was far too isolated playing in his usual position and was rarely getting to touch the football, so they've adjusted his position. 

 

I don't think Eriksson did a thing to try to change Michael Owen's "game" -- he played him most often with Rooney, and why would you play Rooney and then ask another striker to drop deep?  That's utterly pointless -- as much as asking Wayne Rooney to be a primary goal threat (he's not, hasn't been since 2004).  Keegan's "problem" with Owen, if you actually read Owen's book, was that he expected a nineteen-year-old kid to have the same maturity and adaptability Owen now has at 28.  Owen was a world star at 19, no one had ever really criticised his style before, and according to Owen, "Kevin Keegan never told me I was good at anything".  Keegan expected the wrong things out of a young kid, and Owen wasn't yet mature enough to deal with the criticism.  Eight years on, both men have changed.  Which looks to be a good thing for Newcastle United.

 

Of the current England squad (the one v. France) ONLY Michael Owen should get on the pitch as an out-and-out striker.  Walcott hasn't earned an international place yet (2 Premier League goals in 40+ matches -- that's hardly any sort of form let alone international form), Crouch can barely get a game at his club so he can't be in form either, and Rooney is not a reliable goalscorer.  When Capello dropped Defoe, he dropped the in-form goalscorer.  But I still think he'll find that England hasn't anyone more reliable at putting the ball in the back of the net than Michael Owen.  If it takes him until August to figure that out, so be it.  I'm already disappointed in the man (f***ing Beckham, guaranteed to play) so I won't be surprised if it really does take him that long.  But I don't seriously think that is what motivated Owen to change his game.  I think it was simple -- he wanted to win matches.  What they were doing wasn't working.  Time for a change, and that meant the players who are capable (like Owen) need to make those changes.

[Skirge]

I agree losing Zoggy would be a big blow but if he wants away then we cannot stop him, he will be in a total huff and play shite if we refuse to sell him.

I would however tell him he can leave for the right price but not to an English club, Spurs can fkn forget about it as can Wenger..

Trouble is that Zoggy could fit into KK's formation if we got injuries but an unhappy player cannot help us..

 

I suppose it all depends on if KK is planning to play the same formation next season and will be looking to buy players to suit that style or is he planning on going back to a 4-4-2 with Owen and a bigger striker upfront, in wich case we must keep the Zogster.

[Guest float one in]

Owen in this deeper role could work for us in the short term, but I just feel he's never going to be brilliant at it. He's benefitted from KK coming back and telling him to do it, and its worked alright against a couple of poorer teams but can't see it working consistently against better teams - I don't think its got the potential to push us into the top 7.

However its hard to tell - who's to say KK won't bring in a striker in the summer who works brilliantly alonside a deeper lying Owen. The contributions of individuals to the team always depend on those around them - just ask Nicky Butt, I'm sure he is over the moon that Owen is coming looking for the ball.