Senderos Vs Taylor

[Cajun]

Done his fucking starjump again didn't he which almost cost him.

[Guest Knightrider]

One player has gained international experience for his country that doesn't have the talent of your Terrys, Ferdinands, Campbells, Kings, Caraghers, Woodgates et al to call on while being developed by the grande master of talent development himself, at a club that competes at the top end of the league and in Europe, while being held by the hand by the likes of Gallas and Toure, two of the best defenders in Europe.

 

The other was touted as the next big Geordie hope the moment he made his debut, thrown in at the deep end, forced to partner greats like Bramble, Boumsong and Moore, under a succession of failed managers, at a mid-table club with very demanding fans wanting to know that why, at the age of 22, this player isn't in an international centre-half for his country and up there with the likes of Terry et al.

 

Senderos vs Taylor?

 

I can't for the life of me quite fathom why he's being compared to the Arsenal player, is it similar age, the fact they both play in the same position that begs the question who is better!?

 

Anyway, to answer the question they are both average (note the lack of "shite"? Shite is what lines Derby's back-four, Taylor has held his own at the level he's playing at!), but Senderos has had by far the better opportunities which he has either wasted or will waste as he's not good enough. If their lives or rather the opportunities were reversed however, I wonder whether we'd be comparing the two...

 

As much as this may sit wrong with others, football is not just about talent, but opportunities, and until Taylor gets the opportunity to shine or disappear in a healthier environment that demands more of him, that can elevate his career or not, he'll always be what he is, an average defender.

 

Lets not forget he's been playing for an average team and considering his age, the fact he's done alright thus far for my money means he is not shite, he's just not great. But then what do people expect?

 

Me, I'd like to see whether he can improve his game and career based around the kind of opportunities that will for definite, determine just what kind of player he can be. If he is indeed shite, he'll sink. If he is any kop, he'll shine. Or he may stand still.

 

If you are what you eat, then Taylor is the product of his environment. He doesn't have the natural ability or talent that a Richards at Man City does for example so it was always going to be tough to stand out and shine like he has done despite playing in an average side too.

 

But he does have the stature and other ingredients in my opinion to be a good defender and what he needs to now show is consistency and form. We aren't asking for him to bring the ball out of defence, spray it about or be the uber hero, we just want solid no nonsense defending week in week out. Is he capable? Of course he is. Will we see that in him? That depends on a number of factors, some of which will be decided by OPPORTUNITY as much as TALENT. In a better team, playing better football, a settled team, he like many others may just settle down into a consistent state of  solid performances in the black and white shirt. He stands a chance under Keegan the way he will want us to defend (from the front, attack being the best form of defence) which I hope will settle him down and the defence in whole which it is already starting to do.

 

He needs to work on his own game though and he needs to sort out in his head what he wants and what type of player he wants to be and more importantly, what his talent will allow him to be. Which isn't a world beater, but at best a solid consistent Premiership defender ala Dunne and others like that.

 

For fans, both sets, those who think the sun shines out of his arse, and those that are ultra critical, they need to get a grip and accept he's never going to be a world beater but he he isn't shite either, just ordinary or average.

 

Btw he's put in a solid no nonsense shift today, along with the rest of the defence.

 

More of that please. 

[Mick]

 

I think Dave was doing alright on his own, not that I consider myself to be "arguing" with him at all anyway.  Shame you can't read, go back to page 6 and see where baggy and gol referenced and responded to me before I mentioned either of them.

 

But we all know you make things up as you go, and ignore factual information, you've done it for a long time now.

 

 

 

Going back to page 6 would suit you wouldn't it, what about page 5 and post #123?  mackems.gif

 

Shame you make things up as you go, and ignore factual information, you've done it for a long time now.

[NE5]

 

I think Dave was doing alright on his own, not that I consider myself to be "arguing" with him at all anyway.  Shame you can't read, go back to page 6 and see where baggy and gol referenced and responded to me before I mentioned either of them.

 

But we all know you make things up as you go, and ignore factual information, you've done it for a long time now.

 

 

 

Going back to page 6 would suit you wouldn't it, what about page 5 and post #123?   mackems.gif

 

Shame you make things up as you go, and ignore factual information, you've done it for a long time now.

 

it was page 6 where baggy and gol came in and made reference to me

 

[Cajun]

I honestly think I can understand what its like being a primary school teacher on here sometimes

[TRon]

Great argument that. Could have been used for Smith and Duff starting every week in which case we'd probably have been relegated.

 

Apart from the fact Smith & Duff dont start. Also we have better players than them two in there positions. I dont think we have any better centre backs than Taylor & Faye.

 

My view is just like Smith and Duff were rated way above their contribution, so is Taylor. I am pretty sure Cacapa would dovetail nicely with Faye, as would Rozenhal IMO.

 

WUM?

 

Don't blame me if you can't see the bigger picture.

 

If your bigger picture has Rosie or Cacapa any where near our starting XI, on there previous form shown then I dont want to. Keegan was right to loan Roz out & right to drop Cacapa, do you disagree?

 

Just for the record, I dont give a shit who plays just as long as it is our best players. If Steven Taylor scores 3 own goals & plays through balls for Defoe today, than I will want him dropped. If Cacapa turns back the clock or Rosie is inspired from being a sub at the ground Nesta used to play at great. It is all about Newcastle United the team for me.

 

Just to clarify, Roz wasn't loaned out because of his ability or lack of it, more because he was moaning to the foreign press and clearly unhappy. I did say that Taylor's attitude was one of his plus points and was what was getting him picked for which he deserves credit. Cacapa is new to the premier league and is injured anyhow. But to answer your question yes I think both those players could have done well playing in a more confident side like present, in the same way NE5 claimed Taylor would. Anyway, Taylor has the shirt for now so good luck to the lad. Does that convince me he's going to be a good enough defender to hold the shirt long term? Absolutely not.

[Guest alex]

Played well at the weekend like.

[Newcastle Fan]

Why is this a sticky

[midds]

Why is this a sticky

 

Good question...

 

 

ask HTT.

 

 

[Syrette]

Of all the threads...

[Guest Knightrider]

Why is this a sticky

 

Good question...

 

 

ask HTT.

 

 

 

Eh?

[Rich]

You stickied this thread according to the Mod Log.

[Mr Logic]

Someone has pressed a wrong button methinks..

[midds]

Someone has pressed a wrong button methinks..

 

Agree.

 

Easy done sometimes though.

[Guest Knightrider]

Would have been when I was reading the forum using my phone then this morning, using that pen thing, must have clicked it by accident.

[TRon]

Played well at the weekend like.

 

He did. He's been pretty solid during our turn around in form to be fair, I think the team is defending much more as a unit since the switch to 4-3-3.

[Guest Knightrider]

Played well at the weekend like.

 

He did indeed, that block he made was fantastic, although it clearly did hit his hand, accidental though and the correct decision to play on by the ref iyam. The whole defence played well on Saturday imo.

[Tooj]

Played well at the weekend like.

 

He did indeed, that block he made was fantastic, although it clearly did hit his hand, accidental though and the correct decision to play on by the ref iyam. The whole defence played well on Saturday imo.

 

Fancy that though eh? A clueless tactician like Keegan who doesn't believe in defending, making our defence look better than the entire time that Fat Sam was here, who would be the one to sort us out with his masterful tactics with regards to defending.

[Guest Knightrider]

Played well at the weekend like.

 

He did indeed, that block he made was fantastic, although it clearly did hit his hand, accidental though and the correct decision to play on by the ref iyam. The whole defence played well on Saturday imo.

 

Fancy that though eh? A clueless tactician like Keegan who doesn't believe in defending, making our defence look better than the entire time that Fat Sam was here, who would be the one to sort us out with his masterful tactics with regards to defending.

 

Yup. It has always been a myth that KK's teams can't defend. I remember his Man City side going to Highbury to play for a 0-0, set up to play for it and tactics used to make sure that happened. They came away with a 0-0 and could have won it with SWP having a few chances. I watched that game and I remember smiling to myself as the commentators were in shock that KK could pull off such a stroke against Wenger. As for his Newcastle sides... we conceded the fewest goals alongside the champions Man Utd back then.

 

People can't seem to separate KK's philosophies from the actual facts, KK thinks like this: The defence can afford to concede at least one goal as we'll score more. That doesn't mean his sides can't defend or don't care about keeping clean sheets. I remember when we beat Swindon 7-1 and KK was livid that we let them score.

 

Against Pompey we were solid, functional, disciplined and as a team defended from the front.

 

There were one or two slight problems though that will need ironed out, positional problems (Faye) and cover from midfield. Barton failed to track back and cover a few times which I'm sure will be looked at.

[STM]

Funny enough being quite young for the first KK regime i was under the impression that he didn't know how to get his teams defending and was a crap tactician.

 

Two qualities which he has massively impressed me on.

[Guest Knightrider]

Funny enough being quite young for the first KK regime i was under the impression that he didn't know how to get his teams defending and was a crap tactician.

 

Two qualities which he has massively impressed me on.

 

A lot of the goals we did concede back then were either top quality goals, or as a result of us going on the attack, we rarely threw away leads or capitulated despite common myth, and rarer still, gave away cheap and silly goals. We were defensively strong as a result of being offensively strong, I remember teams turning up at SJP beaten the moment they lined up, most sides were frightened of a hammering from us and in our pomp, it was like that whether we were at home or on the road, we were that type of team and unlike Arsenal, you couldn't bully us out of games because we could fight too. Our lack of success came down to a lack of experience and an inevitable drop off from what was an incredible rise in such a short space of time. I firmly believe though had KK stayed, we'd have won the title at some point or at least a few cups.

[Tooj]

Funny enough being quite young for the first KK regime i was under the impression that he didn't know how to get his teams defending and was a crap tactician.

 

Two qualities which he has massively impressed me on.

 

A lot of the goals we did concede back then were either top quality goals, or as a result of us going on the attack, we rarely threw away leads or capitulated despite common myth, and rarer still, gave away cheap and silly goals. We were defensively strong as a result of being offensively strong, I remember teams turning up at SJP beaten the moment they lined up, most sides were frightened of a hammering from us and in our pomp, it was like that whether we were at home or on the road, we were that type of team and unlike Arsenal, you couldn't bully us out of games because we could fight too. Our lack of success came down to a lack of experience and an inevitable drop off from what was an incredible rise in such a short space of time. I firmly believe though had KK stayed, we'd have won the title at some point or at least a few cups.

 

Despite how good Sir Les was that season, he did miss a lot of chances during the 2nd half of the season, whereas say if we'd have had Shearer then I have no doubt he would have finished some of those chances that Sir Les failed to put away.

 

Not discrediting Man Utd though, as they went on an amazing run.

[STM]

I went to bed the other night dreaming of champions league football.

 

I'm happy that KK's ambition will match my dreams. Some day maybe......

[Guest Knightrider]

Funny enough being quite young for the first KK regime i was under the impression that he didn't know how to get his teams defending and was a crap tactician.

 

Two qualities which he has massively impressed me on.

 

A lot of the goals we did concede back then were either top quality goals, or as a result of us going on the attack, we rarely threw away leads or capitulated despite common myth, and rarer still, gave away cheap and silly goals. We were defensively strong as a result of being offensively strong, I remember teams turning up at SJP beaten the moment they lined up, most sides were frightened of a hammering from us and in our pomp, it was like that whether we were at home or on the road, we were that type of team and unlike Arsenal, you couldn't bully us out of games because we could fight too. Our lack of success came down to a lack of experience and an inevitable drop off from what was an incredible rise in such a short space of time. I firmly believe though had KK stayed, we'd have won the title at some point or at least a few cups.

 

Despite how good Sir Les was that season, he did miss a lot of chances during the 2nd half of the season, whereas say if we'd have had Shearer then I have no doubt he would have finished some of those chances that Sir Les failed to put away.

 

Not discrediting Man Utd though, as they went on an amazing run.

 

Oh aye, form obviously played a part, ours and theirs. I still maintain though that a lack of experience killed us, none more so than the manager's own lack of experience. I reckon if we were ever in such a position again, we would at 3-1 up at Anfield, kill the game and at home to Man Utd when we lost 1-0 where we battered them, we'd settle for a point now, for example.

[Guest Knightrider]

Another canny game from Taylor who won quite a few against Jones and never put a foot wrong all game. He may not be a top defender but he's far from shite. We seen true shite defenders in action today and they go by the names of McShane and Higginbotham along with the rest of their colleagues in red and white.