Still an Ashleyite? Who's with me?

[Alberto2005]

He didn't get the wrong manager in at all, he just started pissing about with things he didn't need to.

 

Like what?

 

 

Appointing Dennis Wise to find young talent for a start, what the f*** would he know about that? Also the fact we've got two managers within the same club, clueless. Having other people choose which players we are signing, you can say if he had a problem with that why didn't he go straight away, well he obviously did have a problem with it and the fact we didn't get the amount of players we needed was the final straw, what other explanation do you have for him resigning?

2 managers eh ?

keegan said he had the final say on all comings and goings

He admitted before the Man U he doesn't, how can he have the final say when he's never even seen them play? Do you think he would seriously sell Milner without a guaranteed replacement? Considering he said that money wasn't an issue whether he stayed or went.

 

Just because you haven't seen them play doesn't mean you can't have the final say, it just means you're putting your faith into someone else's judgement.

 

Look at the South Americans that came in under Sir Bobby, most of those came in on the recommendation of Mick Wadsworth I think it was.

Well that's pointless then isn't it? Keegan's opinion means nothing, what's the point in him saying let's buy him when he hasn't even seen what he's buying, you may aswell let them choose.

pretty sure benitez wont have been to brazil to see that lad they signed on a free and if keegan didn't want coloccini or jonas you have to ask if he's up to the job.

He hasn't seen them play before so he wouldn't know any different, just seems that Keegan's view is pretty academic when these guys scouting the players know a vast amount more than KK does.

[Thespence]

He doesn't want to go the Man City and Chelsea route, but instead wants to go the Arsenal route. It is his club and his decision. Unfortunately, the manager he has chosen has an opinion which differs in certain areas it appears.

 

The Arsenal route, a manager who oversees the whole football side. I don't think we had that. Also if you had read some of Wegner interviews he says every player he signs is ready for first team football that is the one thing all signings must be able to do. Not all of ours fall into the category.

 

That is not necessarily true. Arsenal buys younger players that are not ready for first team quite often (eg Vela). The question is: how involved is Wenger in the "vela-type" signings?

 

That being Vela who could not get a permit for this country was loaned out, now has permit & will play first team games this season, in fact he may have played some already.

 

Wegner is involved in every signing.

[KaKa]

He doesn't want to go the Man City and Chelsea route, but instead wants to go the Arsenal route. It is his club and his decision. Unfortunately, the manager he has chosen has an opinion which differs in certain areas it appears.

 

The Arsenal route, a manager who oversees the whole football side. I don't think we had that. Also if you had read some of Wegner interviews he says every player he signs is ready for first team football that is the one thing all signings must be able to do. Not all of ours fall into the category.

 

My reference to the Arsenal way, was in regard to younger, hungrier players being recruited, for reasonable fees.

 

Funnily enough, I think all of our recruitments have looked like they ought to slot straight into the first team for me.

 

Under Bobby we had players who went on to become Young Player Of The Year, which of these younger hungrier players if any do you think could win that award.

 

Spears (did he sign)? Ranger? The Italian?

 

 

Those are academy players you are referring to.

 

I'm talking about the likes of Bassong, Guthrie and Xisco.

 

 

[Guest Sniffer]

All of this of course is supposition as nobody knows what the hell is going on.

 

Nobody knows who is doing which jobs at this time other than Keegan selects the team. Also, we signed two players, well one player really, who we haven't got the faintest idea if he'll turn out to be Torres or Luque. The other one is deemed surplus to requirements by an average spanish club at this time so we're basically a testing ground for him.

 

I'm not ready yet to jump on the cockney bandwagon and start slagging off Keegan like some of the know it alls on here.

[Thespence]

He doesn't want to go the Man City and Chelsea route, but instead wants to go the Arsenal route. It is his club and his decision. Unfortunately, the manager he has chosen has an opinion which differs in certain areas it appears.

 

The Arsenal route, a manager who oversees the whole football side. I don't think we had that. Also if you had read some of Wegner interviews he says every player he signs is ready for first team football that is the one thing all signings must be able to do. Not all of ours fall into the category.

 

My reference to the Arsenal way, was in regard to younger, hungrier players being recruited, for reasonable fees.

 

Funnily enough, I think all of our recruitments have looked like they ought to slot straight into the first team for me.

 

Under Bobby we had players who went on to become Young Player Of The Year, which of these younger hungrier players if any do you think could win that award.

 

Spears (did he sign)? Ranger? The Italian?

 

 

Those are academy players you are referring to.

 

I'm talking about the likes of Bassong, Guthrie and Xisco.

 

 

 

They are signings from other clubs, when Wegner signs young players lie Ramsey, Merida, Barazite or  a Walcott they can play & do play 1st team football.

 

I am not sure I go with this new direction & how great it is because as I said we had 2 previous winners of the PFA young player of the year award & it ended in tears. Do you think any of the young players signed will win the PFA young player of the year award?  Do you reckon Guthrie is better than say Jenas? I think Guthrie is shite if I am honest. I like Bassong & feel I cant comment on Xisco even though I watch quite a bit of Spanish football.

[Syrette]

I've hated him since day one. 

 

I am not sure what to say to that. Shocking statement. It's your opinion at the end of the day though.

 

Should I take it for granted that you were gutted to see Shepherd et al leave?

[Theregulars]

As much as I love Keegan, I back Ashley entirely for wanting rid of Smith and Barton.

[madras]

He didn't get the wrong manager in at all, he just started pissing about with things he didn't need to.

 

Like what?

 

 

Appointing Dennis Wise to find young talent for a start, what the f*** would he know about that? Also the fact we've got two managers within the same club, clueless. Having other people choose which players we are signing, you can say if he had a problem with that why didn't he go straight away, well he obviously did have a problem with it and the fact we didn't get the amount of players we needed was the final straw, what other explanation do you have for him resigning?

2 managers eh ?

keegan said he had the final say on all comings and goings

He admitted before the Man U he doesn't, how can he have the final say when he's never even seen them play? Do you think he would seriously sell Milner without a guaranteed replacement? Considering he said that money wasn't an issue whether he stayed or went.

 

Just because you haven't seen them play doesn't mean you can't have the final say, it just means you're putting your faith into someone else's judgement.

 

Look at the South Americans that came in under Sir Bobby, most of those came in on the recommendation of Mick Wadsworth I think it was.

Well that's pointless then isn't it? Keegan's opinion means nothing, what's the point in him saying let's buy him when he hasn't even seen what he's buying, you may aswell let them choose.

pretty sure benitez wont have been to brazil to see that lad they signed on a free and if keegan didn't want coloccini or jonas you have to ask if he's up to the job.

He hasn't seen them play before so he wouldn't know any different, just seems that Keegan's view is pretty academic when these guys scouting the players know a vast amount more than KK does.

you're not building up keegans case here.

[ChezGiven]

If he gets rid of Wise and Llambis then yes

 

if not no!

 

I WANT MORT BACK!!!

 

Mort set the current vision for the club. Who else is the architect of the current structure? Labiaflaps?

[Alberto2005]

He didn't get the wrong manager in at all, he just started pissing about with things he didn't need to.

 

Like what?

 

 

Appointing Dennis Wise to find young talent for a start, what the f*** would he know about that? Also the fact we've got two managers within the same club, clueless. Having other people choose which players we are signing, you can say if he had a problem with that why didn't he go straight away, well he obviously did have a problem with it and the fact we didn't get the amount of players we needed was the final straw, what other explanation do you have for him resigning?

2 managers eh ?

keegan said he had the final say on all comings and goings

He admitted before the Man U he doesn't, how can he have the final say when he's never even seen them play? Do you think he would seriously sell Milner without a guaranteed replacement? Considering he said that money wasn't an issue whether he stayed or went.

 

Just because you haven't seen them play doesn't mean you can't have the final say, it just means you're putting your faith into someone else's judgement.

 

Look at the South Americans that came in under Sir Bobby, most of those came in on the recommendation of Mick Wadsworth I think it was.

Well that's pointless then isn't it? Keegan's opinion means nothing, what's the point in him saying let's buy him when he hasn't even seen what he's buying, you may aswell let them choose.

pretty sure benitez wont have been to brazil to see that lad they signed on a free and if keegan didn't want coloccini or jonas you have to ask if he's up to the job.

He hasn't seen them play before so he wouldn't know any different, just seems that Keegan's view is pretty academic when these guys scouting the players know a vast amount more than KK does.

you're not building up keegans case here.

He should be the one choosing, but if he isn't watching the players than he isn't in a position to is he?

[madras]

As much as I love Keegan, I back Ashley entirely for wanting rid of Smith and Barton.

and selling milner for that much

[johnnypd]

He doesn't want to go the Man City and Chelsea route, but instead wants to go the Arsenal route. It is his club and his decision. Unfortunately, the manager he has chosen has an opinion which differs in certain areas it appears.

 

The Arsenal route, a manager who oversees the whole football side. I don't think we had that. Also if you had read some of Wegner interviews he says every player he signs is ready for first team football that is the one thing all signings must be able to do. Not all of ours fall into the category.

 

That is not necessarily true. Arsenal buys younger players that are not ready for first team quite often (eg Vela). The question is: how involved is Wenger in the "vela-type" signings?

 

very involved, he meets the young lads in question personally, he appoints the scouts and the scouts answer to him, often they are ex-players  - Gilles Grimandi is wenger's head european scout and damien comolli, his first head scout at arsenal, was a youth team coach at Monaco under Wenger. gosh, a former player and youth coach, sounds like Wenger is just doling out jobs for the boys! he also gets a large proportion to come in on trial so he can personally assess them over the course of a week. his intense control goes even further than that, the bbc once found that Wenger had personally put in money from his own pocket to pay a belgian scout to scour the ivory coast for talent, a move that produced Toure and Eboue for the club.

 

the backroom staff should always be subordinate to the manager, it is their job to help the manager. if they are not doing that, but rather proving a hinderance, there is no use for them. it is not like we can't go out and appoint new scouts, or let Keegan decide who the scouts are. Likewise with Jiminez - there is a need for a solicitor to help draw up contracts and so on, and it may not be possible for Keegan to fly out and be present at every single negotiation, but this is just a staff role, any person filling it is dispensable and it can be filled by any number of people. if this person isnt doing their job, and since our transfer window was poor, Keegan would probably argue they are not, then they can leave. in terms of magnitude such a change would be as simple as getting in a new tea lady.

 

Dennis Wise is slightly different, as from what ive read he is more involved with the academy, so there is a clear division of labour with Keegan, and it is more a case of them coming together once in a while to make sure everything is fine and checking on young players. i dont imagine there'd be much cause for complaint here, though his role might not be as clear cut as that so you never know.

 

as for Vela, the reason he was loaned out was due to work permit regulations. he might not have been ready for the Arsenal first team right away, but a couple of months after signing for Arsenal he was playing regular football for Salamanca on loan.

[ChezGiven]

A lot of the new structure makes sense. However, a lot of the success of this club comes from a having a strong connection between the fans and a figurehead who we can get behind and believe in. To run this club successfully you need to understand this. The appointment of Keegan has been far more important than they thought, as over time this began to change the power structure within the club. A manager adored by the fans knows that he has them on his side, as we have seen today. If the judgement on a key issue were to be made public, a face off between Keegan and Ashley would only go one way. Keegan knows this.

 

This has been about a battle between the system that Keegan wants and the one that has been set in place. Keegan may be right to challenge it but because of his pay-off clauses, he cant do much about it other than get the club to see how much the fans connect with him and support. Today has been useful for his cause.

 

The real point of this post was Chris Mort though, hence the comment above. Chris sold the nuances of the structure to Kevin, in the areas that are not covered by contracts. In Chris's mind i am absolutely sure that his vision incorporated Keegan at the heart of the transfer period and decisions on players. However, since Chris has left, there is no one to ensure this is exactly how the process works. The minutae of decision making is rarely in a contract.

 

Now, take a look at the characters left. Property dealer, Agent and 'Wite the feem toon, sing the feem toon'. Then this manager of Fifty, the private club in London. In any organisation with money and power at stake, these sorts start grabbing at it straightaway. I think the real problem is that Ashley's lack of total hands on leadership created Keegan problems with those he shared power with. Hardly surprising if they dont even share an office.

[johnnypd]

A lot of the new structure makes sense. However, a lot of the success of this club comes from a having a strong connection between the fans and a figurehead who we can get behind and believe in. To run this club successfully you need to understand this. The appointment of Keegan has been far more important than they thought, as over time this began to change the power structure within the club. A manager adored by the fans knows that he has them on his side, as we have seen today. If the judgement on a key issue were to be made public, a face off between Keegan and Ashley would only go one way. Keegan knows this.

 

This has been about a battle between the system that Keegan wants and the one that has been set in place. Keegan may be right to challenge it but because of his pay-off clauses, he cant do much about it other than get the club to see how much the fans connect with him and support. Today has been useful for his cause.

 

The real point of this post was Chris Mort though, hence the comment above. Chris sold the nuances of the structure to Kevin, in the areas that are not covered by contracts. In Chris's mind i am absolutely sure that his vision incorporated Keegan at the heart of the transfer period and decisions on players. However, since Chris has left, there is no one to ensure this is exactly how the process works. The minutae of decision making is rarely in a contract.

 

Now, take a look at the characters left. Property dealer, Agent and 'Wite the feem toon, sing the feem toon'. Then this manager of Fifty, the private club in London. In any organisation with money and power at stake, these sorts start grabbing at it straightaway. I think the real problem is that Ashley's lack of total hands on leadership created Keegan problems with those he shared power with. Hardly surprising if they dont even share an office.

 

i think that's a very good post and sums up a lot of my thoughts right now.

[madras]

A lot of the new structure makes sense. However, a lot of the success of this club comes from a having a strong connection between the fans and a figurehead who we can get behind and believe in. To run this club successfully you need to understand this. The appointment of Keegan has been far more important than they thought, as over time this began to change the power structure within the club. A manager adored by the fans knows that he has them on his side, as we have seen today. If the judgement on a key issue were to be made public, a face off between Keegan and Ashley would only go one way. Keegan knows this.

 

This has been about a battle between the system that Keegan wants and the one that has been set in place. Keegan may be right to challenge it but because of his pay-off clauses, he cant do much about it other than get the club to see how much the fans connect with him and support. Today has been useful for his cause.

 

The real point of this post was Chris Mort though, hence the comment above. Chris sold the nuances of the structure to Kevin, in the areas that are not covered by contracts. In Chris's mind i am absolutely sure that his vision incorporated Keegan at the heart of the transfer period and decisions on players. However, since Chris has left, there is no one to ensure this is exactly how the process works. The minutae of decision making is rarely in a contract.

 

Now, take a look at the characters left. Property dealer, Agent and 'Wite the feem toon, sing the feem toon'. Then this manager of Fifty, the private club in London. In any organisation with money and power at stake, these sorts start grabbing at it straightaway. I think the real problem is that Ashley's lack of total hands on leadership created Keegan problems with those he shared power with. Hardly surprising if they dont even share an office.

surely if any of that was true keegan has got the timing very wrong?

[ChezGiven]

A lot of the new structure makes sense. However, a lot of the success of this club comes from a having a strong connection between the fans and a figurehead who we can get behind and believe in. To run this club successfully you need to understand this. The appointment of Keegan has been far more important than they thought, as over time this began to change the power structure within the club. A manager adored by the fans knows that he has them on his side, as we have seen today. If the judgement on a key issue were to be made public, a face off between Keegan and Ashley would only go one way. Keegan knows this.

 

This has been about a battle between the system that Keegan wants and the one that has been set in place. Keegan may be right to challenge it but because of his pay-off clauses, he cant do much about it other than get the club to see how much the fans connect with him and support. Today has been useful for his cause.

 

The real point of this post was Chris Mort though, hence the comment above. Chris sold the nuances of the structure to Kevin, in the areas that are not covered by contracts. In Chris's mind i am absolutely sure that his vision incorporated Keegan at the heart of the transfer period and decisions on players. However, since Chris has left, there is no one to ensure this is exactly how the process works. The minutae of decision making is rarely in a contract.

 

Now, take a look at the characters left. Property dealer, Agent and 'Wite the feem toon, sing the feem toon'. Then this manager of Fifty, the private club in London. In any organisation with money and power at stake, these sorts start grabbing at it straightaway. I think the real problem is that Ashley's lack of total hands on leadership created Keegan problems with those he shared power with. Hardly surprising if they dont even share an office.

surely if any of that was true keegan has got the timing very wrong?

Depends on what you think Mort said to him.

[Kev]

I like Ashley, if he wanted rid of Keegan, then he wouldve sacked him today. Simple as that.

[Mick]

Some good posts amongst the hysteria.

[madras]

A lot of the new structure makes sense. However, a lot of the success of this club comes from a having a strong connection between the fans and a figurehead who we can get behind and believe in. To run this club successfully you need to understand this. The appointment of Keegan has been far more important than they thought, as over time this began to change the power structure within the club. A manager adored by the fans knows that he has them on his side, as we have seen today. If the judgement on a key issue were to be made public, a face off between Keegan and Ashley would only go one way. Keegan knows this.

 

This has been about a battle between the system that Keegan wants and the one that has been set in place. Keegan may be right to challenge it but because of his pay-off clauses, he cant do much about it other than get the club to see how much the fans connect with him and support. Today has been useful for his cause.

 

The real point of this post was Chris Mort though, hence the comment above. Chris sold the nuances of the structure to Kevin, in the areas that are not covered by contracts. In Chris's mind i am absolutely sure that his vision incorporated Keegan at the heart of the transfer period and decisions on players. However, since Chris has left, there is no one to ensure this is exactly how the process works. The minutae of decision making is rarely in a contract.

 

Now, take a look at the characters left. Property dealer, Agent and 'Wite the feem toon, sing the feem toon'. Then this manager of Fifty, the private club in London. In any organisation with money and power at stake, these sorts start grabbing at it straightaway. I think the real problem is that Ashley's lack of total hands on leadership created Keegan problems with those he shared power with. Hardly surprising if they dont even share an office.

surely if any of that was true keegan has got the timing very wrong?

Depends on what you think Mort said to him.

more to the point what was said to him in the few weeks after mort left.

[ChezGiven]

A lot of the new structure makes sense. However, a lot of the success of this club comes from a having a strong connection between the fans and a figurehead who we can get behind and believe in. To run this club successfully you need to understand this. The appointment of Keegan has been far more important than they thought, as over time this began to change the power structure within the club. A manager adored by the fans knows that he has them on his side, as we have seen today. If the judgement on a key issue were to be made public, a face off between Keegan and Ashley would only go one way. Keegan knows this.

 

This has been about a battle between the system that Keegan wants and the one that has been set in place. Keegan may be right to challenge it but because of his pay-off clauses, he cant do much about it other than get the club to see how much the fans connect with him and support. Today has been useful for his cause.

 

The real point of this post was Chris Mort though, hence the comment above. Chris sold the nuances of the structure to Kevin, in the areas that are not covered by contracts. In Chris's mind i am absolutely sure that his vision incorporated Keegan at the heart of the transfer period and decisions on players. However, since Chris has left, there is no one to ensure this is exactly how the process works. The minutae of decision making is rarely in a contract.

 

Now, take a look at the characters left. Property dealer, Agent and 'Wite the feem toon, sing the feem toon'. Then this manager of Fifty, the private club in London. In any organisation with money and power at stake, these sorts start grabbing at it straightaway. I think the real problem is that Ashley's lack of total hands on leadership created Keegan problems with those he shared power with. Hardly surprising if they dont even share an office.

surely if any of that was true keegan has got the timing very wrong?

Depends on what you think Mort said to him.

more to the point what was said to him in the few weeks after mort left.

Nothing, the structure was already in place, the lines of reporting were already established.

[madras]

A lot of the new structure makes sense. However, a lot of the success of this club comes from a having a strong connection between the fans and a figurehead who we can get behind and believe in. To run this club successfully you need to understand this. The appointment of Keegan has been far more important than they thought, as over time this began to change the power structure within the club. A manager adored by the fans knows that he has them on his side, as we have seen today. If the judgement on a key issue were to be made public, a face off between Keegan and Ashley would only go one way. Keegan knows this.

 

This has been about a battle between the system that Keegan wants and the one that has been set in place. Keegan may be right to challenge it but because of his pay-off clauses, he cant do much about it other than get the club to see how much the fans connect with him and support. Today has been useful for his cause.

 

The real point of this post was Chris Mort though, hence the comment above. Chris sold the nuances of the structure to Kevin, in the areas that are not covered by contracts. In Chris's mind i am absolutely sure that his vision incorporated Keegan at the heart of the transfer period and decisions on players. However, since Chris has left, there is no one to ensure this is exactly how the process works. The minutae of decision making is rarely in a contract.

 

Now, take a look at the characters left. Property dealer, Agent and 'Wite the feem toon, sing the feem toon'. Then this manager of Fifty, the private club in London. In any organisation with money and power at stake, these sorts start grabbing at it straightaway. I think the real problem is that Ashley's lack of total hands on leadership created Keegan problems with those he shared power with. Hardly surprising if they dont even share an office.

surely if any of that was true keegan has got the timing very wrong?

Depends on what you think Mort said to him.

more to the point what was said to him in the few weeks after mort left.

Nothing, the structure was already in place, the lines of reporting were already established.

i'm not so sure "the lines of reporting" have ever been properly established and that is the problem

[afar]

I think most people know where I have been on Ashley. I'm still waiting to be shown some ambition. Having said that, I've never once said he should go and even after today's events I'll not be asking for his head. I just want him and KK to sort out this mess and get back on with running this club. Hopefully this could be a wake up call for all concerned, this episode may be a turning point just as KK's jumping ship was the first time he was here.

 

If KK can not be turn around and we are looking for a new manager then Ashley had better get the appointment right, it won't be easy finding someone, my personal choice would be David Moyes, I think he's had his fill of penny pinching at Everton (although they did splash big at the end) and ready for a move. But that debate's for another day, hopefully a long long long way away.

[Yorkie]

As much as I love Keegan, I back Ashley entirely for wanting rid of Smith and Barton.

 

I don't - i think it's plain wrong. I agree with his opinion, assuming his opinion is that they are shite (well, Smith anyway, i think Barton could be alright) - but if a manager has made it clear that he doesn't want those players to be sold, then it's an absolute disgrace and a massively disrespectful move to try and shift them behind his back.

 

Back your manager, and stick by his word. If this is what the whole day has been about, then i'm still completely behind Keegan and i can understand why he is upset.

 

As for Wise and his minions; i like what they're doing and i think it is a system that works. However, if the two (Keegan's lot/Wise's lot) are working in parallel rather in tandom, then that needs to be sorted - there needs to be a compromise drawn up there. And i'm sure that, other than the Smith-Barton thing (which was probably the spine of the discussions today), it's little problems to do with that that have been brought up today, where both parties are in the wrong atleast in some respects.

 

As much as i feel Wise and his recruitment team generally need commending for the work they have done thus far; if no compromise between him and the manager can be made, then it's them who need moving on - not the boss. You can replace your scouts, you cannot replace Kevin Keegan.

[garth]

I like the direction Ashley and Co are taking the club and Keegan most more than likely knew this, so in that respect he can't complain about that. As far as Keegan having total control over everything, well! he couldn't handle it last time he was here, scrapping the Academy which set us back, a long time in. Fact that we have missed out on lot good young players going to other Academies. If it comes between Keegan and Ashley it's Ashley all the way, it's his club! he stopped us from going bankrupt most more than likely and if we did go bankrupt, there would be no Newcastle United any more!.

[Guest optimistic nit]

i'd probably stick a few on moyes if we lose keegan.