Jonas Gutierrez

[Rich]

The bloke is absolute class man, too good for us in our current predicament and like Chez says he'll be even better if we stay up (and get some stability/movement up front).

 

He's like a one-man attacking force in the midfield at the moment when you consider what we've had on the opposite flank and in the centre. He is not a perfect footballer (who is?) but he has fantastic abilities in other areas bar his finishing/end product (which isn't as horrendous as some make out).

 

IF we could get a right winger and a central midfielder to take on those roles (which all good teams should have, really) then he'll shine even more.

 

The way that people sometimes slag him off is probably due to the praise he gets from the likes of myself and the raised expectations he's made for himself with his early season performances, but I am in no doubt that this season he's our best outfield player (I would even argue that when everybody is fit). He is the last person people should be criticising when you look around at the contributions of the rest of the squad this season.

[ChezGiven]

Jonas DOES link well with Enrique, but that is more due to Enrique's movement than his ; Jonas is a luxury player in a team like Newcastle...put him in a decent side and he will look better, but his meaningful contributions are rare - very few goals scored or created by him.

 

When the team loses or fails to score, that will be all 11 players without meaningful contributions.

 

You cant underestimate the ability to collect the ball under pressure and either make space, beat a man and move the ball forward.

 

If you look at the worst NUFC teams and the worst performances, you'll see players collecting balls under pressure without the ability to find a man, make space or beat a player. The team loses possession and eventually the pressure cranks up until we concede.

 

Jonas collected the ball in his own and was surrounded by 3 man u players. If he loses the ball, man u go on the attack. He didnt and we went on the attack. Thats a meaningful contribution imo.

[AlanSkÃrare]

To be honest I think we might struggle to keep him even IF we stay up. Way above our level atm. Same goes for Bassong and Martins if you look at yesterday's performance.

[Yorkie]

Is it worth giving him a try in the middle, perhaps in the 'hole' (cringe), behind Martins?

 

Maybe off the striker, buzzing around, but he needs some kind of striking prowess to really make that role work. Late runs, far post runs, etc. Most of the time last night, Martins and Lovenkrands interchanged - Martins hung around outside the box making the play with Jonas and Enrique, while Lovenkrands loitered around the six-yard box. That's how we got the goal; the two strikers worked pretty well last night.

 

Personally i think it'd be a waste of talent playing Jonas anywhere but the wing.

[WhatTheFunk]

Is it worth giving him a try in the middle, perhaps in the 'hole' (cringe), behind Martins?

 

Was tried against Coventry and he sucked.

 

That's far too responsive. Keep doing it for 6 more games, THEN realise it's not working, then do something about it.

 

[/vaguejibe]

 

THANK YOU!!! A FUCKING VOICE OF REASON!!!

[Gallowgate End]

<b>Is it worth giving him a try in the middle,</b> perhaps in the 'hole' (cringe), behind Martins?

 

Certainly something I would like to see; for me he hasn't the delivery to be a playing as a winger granted he gets himself into some good positions down the sides but his delivery is woeful everytime.

 

I've seen him play on the side of a three for Argentina perhaps his best suited role its a position he could play here providing Owen, Viduka and Martins were all fit to play up top I think had Kevin Keegan not walked we would of seen this 4-3-3 system more.

 

However I thought he had a terrific game last night and for now looks far more dangerous coming inside off of the Left wing then he does playing down the Right.

[Nobody]

Is it worth giving him a try in the middle, perhaps in the 'hole' (cringe), behind Martins?

While he might do a good job in the middle as well, I wouldn't want us moving him from a position where he's played some fantastic stuff this season. Only if we somehow got two more equally wingers in, and this CM crisis continues, I'd consider playing him there.

[Guest teepee]

fantastic player imo!

 

but a winger, not a central player, a lot of his momentum would be lost and he is not dangerous enough goal wise either

 

 

[STM]

Why sign a winger and then play him in the centre of the park? Somewhere he has never played before (guess).

 

All of Gutierrez's play is classic of a good winger, he dribbles, works hard for the team and try's to set up his opponents. The problem is that he hasn't been told where he can be most effective and this is once again down to poor man management.

 

Someone needs to sit him down and tell him that he needs to get to the byline more often and then get his head up. I have no doubt in his ability to pass the ball form that range, he just needs to get his head up. Martins goal against Villa is the best example of Jonas potential from these situations.

[TRon]

Jonas DOES link well with Enrique, but that is more due to Enrique's movement than his ; Jonas is a luxury player in a team like Newcastle...put him in a decent side and he will look better, but his meaningful contributions are rare - very few goals scored or created by him.

 

When the team loses or fails to score, that will be all 11 players without meaningful contributions.

 

You cant underestimate the ability to collect the ball under pressure and either make space, beat a man and move the ball forward.

 

If you look at the worst NUFC teams and the worst performances, you'll see players collecting balls under pressure without the ability to find a man, make space or beat a player. The team loses possession and eventually the pressure cranks up until we concede.

 

Jonas collected the ball in his own and was surrounded by 3 man u players. If he loses the ball, man u go on the attack. He didnt and we went on the attack. Thats a meaningful contribution imo.

 

All you "but he can't cross..he can't score...end product...boo hooo.." types should read this very carefully. Then read it again a few times until it registers.

[merlin]

He's not a luxury player at all, surely he's the opposite? He works hard going forward and in defense, yes he doesn't set up that many goals but he's only had Shola to aim for in a lot of his matches!

 

He'll be better in a better team, but the same goes for a lot of players. We just need to weed out the absolute s*** to have a decent side.

 

You have just confirmed what I said - he is NOT effective in this side, whereas some players with slightly less ability on the ball would be...are you suggesting that we can change half the side to accommodate

Guttierez, because I think Mr Cashley might disagree with you...

Back in 66, Joe Harvey sacrificed such a player(Alan Suddick) so he could buy three others...the changes in

the side kept us up, even though NONE of the 3 new guys had Suddick's talent.....

[merlin]

Jonas DOES link well with Enrique, but that is more due to Enrique's movement than his ; Jonas is a luxury player in a team like Newcastle...put him in a decent side and he will look better, but his meaningful contributions are rare - very few goals scored or created by him.

 

When the team loses or fails to score, that will be all 11 players without meaningful contributions.

 

You cant underestimate the ability to collect the ball under pressure and either make space, beat a man and move the ball forward.

 

If you look at the worst NUFC teams and the worst performances, you'll see players collecting balls under pressure without the ability to find a man, make space or beat a player. The team loses possession and eventually the pressure cranks up until we concede.

 

Jonas collected the ball in his own and was surrounded by 3 man u players. If he loses the ball, man u go on the attack. He didnt and we went on the attack. Thats a meaningful contribution imo.

You can quote all these fine theories until you are blue in the face - the only thing that matters is END PRODUCT ; Shearer produced this in bad sides, Solano did also - in past years, Beardsley and Waddle also did...Jonas is an Argentine international, but I wouldn't have him in the side as opposed to, say, Waddle if they were both the same age.

Watch some of Waddle's amazing goals when playing in a mediocre Newcastle side in 84-85 - HE didn't need to be in 'a decent side' to produce either dangerous crosses or great goals...Jonas has dome neither in nearly a full season.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

He's not a luxury player at all, surely he's the opposite? He works hard going forward and in defense, yes he doesn't set up that many goals but he's only had Shola to aim for in a lot of his matches!

 

He'll be better in a better team, but the same goes for a lot of players. We just need to weed out the absolute s*** to have a decent side.

 

You have just confirmed what I said - he is NOT effective in this side, whereas some players with slightly less ability on the ball would be...are you suggesting that we can change half the side to accommodate

Guttierez, because I think Mr Cashley might disagree with you...

Back in 66, Joe Harvey sacrificed such a player(Alan Suddick) so he could buy three others...the changes in

the side kept us up, even though NONE of the 3 new guys had Suddick's talent.....

 

No, I'm saying that despite his apparent 'lack of end product' he is actually a great asset to the team. With our geriatric midfield we need someone who puts in the work of 2 players like Jonas does.

 

He's not the cherry on top at all is what I mean - he's one of the few players who actually contributes something worthwhile.

[TRon]

Jonas DOES link well with Enrique, but that is more due to Enrique's movement than his ; Jonas is a luxury player in a team like Newcastle...put him in a decent side and he will look better, but his meaningful contributions are rare - very few goals scored or created by him.

 

When the team loses or fails to score, that will be all 11 players without meaningful contributions.

 

You cant underestimate the ability to collect the ball under pressure and either make space, beat a man and move the ball forward.

 

If you look at the worst NUFC teams and the worst performances, you'll see players collecting balls under pressure without the ability to find a man, make space or beat a player. The team loses possession and eventually the pressure cranks up until we concede.

 

Jonas collected the ball in his own and was surrounded by 3 man u players. If he loses the ball, man u go on the attack. He didnt and we went on the attack. Thats a meaningful contribution imo.

You can quote all these fine theories until you are blue in the face - the only thing that matters is END PRODUCT ; Shearer produced this in bad sides, Solano did also - in past years, Beardsley and Waddle also did...Jonas is an Argentine international, but I wouldn't have him in the side as opposed to, say, Waddle if they were both the same age.

Watch some of Waddle's amazing goals when playing in a mediocre Newcastle side in 84-85 - HE didn't need to be in 'a decent side' to produce either dangerous crosses or great goals...Jonas has dome neither in nearly a full season.

 

True, Waddle would be better, so would David Villa. In fact I reckon Stewart Downing would be a better alternative, let's play him against Hull. Good spot.

[Thorpinho]

he proved why hes better than what we have got in the rest of the midfield when we scored on the break against man u. He can carry the ball more than 5 steps and that makes him world class in comparison to the likes of duff. His lack of end product prevents him from being good enough for top 4 sort of teams, but by no means makes him a rubbish player.

[pedro111]

This might have just been my beer goggles seeing things but was Jonas fucking fantastic last night or what?

 

Someone please confirm one way or the other.

[Guest Ebolarama]

I'm sure I've said it previously, but he'll be off to a bigger club come what may in the summer, I'd wager.

[STM]

I'm sure I've said it previously, but he'll be off to a bigger club come what may in the summer, I'd wager.

 

Doesn't come across as that sort of player at all, despite his exit from Mallorca. There maybe other clubs sniffing but the only way i see him leaving is if we get rrrr...rrrr.......rrrr...... na can't say it.

[Guest optimistic nit]

Jonas DOES link well with Enrique, but that is more due to Enrique's movement than his ; Jonas is a luxury player in a team like Newcastle...put him in a decent side and he will look better, but his meaningful contributions are rare - very few goals scored or created by him.

 

When the team loses or fails to score, that will be all 11 players without meaningful contributions.

 

You cant underestimate the ability to collect the ball under pressure and either make space, beat a man and move the ball forward.

 

If you look at the worst NUFC teams and the worst performances, you'll see players collecting balls under pressure without the ability to find a man, make space or beat a player. The team loses possession and eventually the pressure cranks up until we concede.

 

Jonas collected the ball in his own and was surrounded by 3 man u players. If he loses the ball, man u go on the attack. He didnt and we went on the attack. Thats a meaningful contribution imo.

You can quote all these fine theories until you are blue in the face - the only thing that matters is END PRODUCT ; Shearer produced this in bad sides, Solano did also - in past years, Beardsley and Waddle also did...Jonas is an Argentine international, but I wouldn't have him in the side as opposed to, say, Waddle if they were both the same age.

Watch some of Waddle's amazing goals when playing in a mediocre Newcastle side in 84-85 - HE didn't need to be in 'a decent side' to produce either dangerous crosses or great goals...Jonas has dome neither in nearly a full season.

 

the only thing that matters is not end product. some players get into the team because of end product and some dont. keane and viera were not in their respective teams for so long for their goals and assists. i know jonas isn't a def mid, but his ability to tackle back and keep the ball and run with is is something we desperately need in our team, cause no other fucker does it.

[merlin]

Jonas DOES link well with Enrique, but that is more due to Enrique's movement than his ; Jonas is a luxury player in a team like Newcastle...put him in a decent side and he will look better, but his meaningful contributions are rare - very few goals scored or created by him.

 

When the team loses or fails to score, that will be all 11 players without meaningful contributions.

 

You cant underestimate the ability to collect the ball under pressure and either make space, beat a man and move the ball forward.

 

If you look at the worst NUFC teams and the worst performances, you'll see players collecting balls under pressure without the ability to find a man, make space or beat a player. The team loses possession and eventually the pressure cranks up until we concede.

 

Jonas collected the ball in his own and was surrounded by 3 man u players. If he loses the ball, man u go on the attack. He didnt and we went on the attack. Thats a meaningful contribution imo.

You can quote all these fine theories until you are blue in the face - the only thing that matters is END PRODUCT ; Shearer produced this in bad sides, Solano did also - in past years, Beardsley and Waddle also did...Jonas is an Argentine international, but I wouldn't have him in the side as opposed to, say, Waddle if they were both the same age.

Watch some of Waddle's amazing goals when playing in a mediocre Newcastle side in 84-85 - HE didn't need to be in 'a decent side' to produce either dangerous crosses or great goals...Jonas has dome neither in nearly a full season.

 

the only thing that matters is not end product. some players get into the team because of end product and some dont. keane and viera were not in their respective teams for so long for their goals and assists. i know jonas isn't a def mid, but his ability to tackle back and keep the ball and run with is is something we desperately need in our team, cause no other fucker does it.

 

WRONG - end product IS all that matters...Keane and Viera DID have end product because their job was to break up opposition attacks and win the ball for their creative midfielders, and they did it very well...

Jonas' job is NOT to do what Keane and Viera did, but to create danger - REAL danger - in the opposition penalty area - in my opinion he does not do this anywhere near often enough, and so he has very little end product. Butt, Nolan and Guthrie are the ones who are responsible for winning the ball in midfield..

 

Ask Alan Shearer what his main job was, and he would tell you it was to get goals - although he did his share of helping out the midfield, that wasn't what he was there for - that's the point.

[Tachikoma]

Jonas DOES link well with Enrique, but that is more due to Enrique's movement than his ; Jonas is a luxury player in a team like Newcastle...put him in a decent side and he will look better, but his meaningful contributions are rare - very few goals scored or created by him.

 

When the team loses or fails to score, that will be all 11 players without meaningful contributions.

 

You cant underestimate the ability to collect the ball under pressure and either make space, beat a man and move the ball forward.

 

If you look at the worst NUFC teams and the worst performances, you'll see players collecting balls under pressure without the ability to find a man, make space or beat a player. The team loses possession and eventually the pressure cranks up until we concede.

 

Jonas collected the ball in his own and was surrounded by 3 man u players. If he loses the ball, man u go on the attack. He didnt and we went on the attack. Thats a meaningful contribution imo.

You can quote all these fine theories until you are blue in the face - the only thing that matters is END PRODUCT ; Shearer produced this in bad sides, Solano did also - in past years, Beardsley and Waddle also did...Jonas is an Argentine international, but I wouldn't have him in the side as opposed to, say, Waddle if they were both the same age.

Watch some of Waddle's amazing goals when playing in a mediocre Newcastle side in 84-85 - HE didn't need to be in 'a decent side' to produce either dangerous crosses or great goals...Jonas has dome neither in nearly a full season.

 

the only thing that matters is not end product. some players get into the team because of end product and some dont. keane and viera were not in their respective teams for so long for their goals and assists. i know jonas isn't a def mid, but his ability to tackle back and keep the ball and run with is is something we desperately need in our team, cause no other fucker does it.

 

WRONG - end product IS all that matters...Keane and Viera DID have end product because their job was to break up opposition attacks and win the ball for their creative midfielders, and they did it very well...

Jonas' job is NOT to do what Keane and Viera did, but to create danger - REAL danger - in the opposition penalty area - in my opinion he does not do this anywhere near often enough, and so he has very little end product. Butt, Nolan and Guthrie are the ones who are responsible for winning the ball in midfield..

 

Ask Alan Shearer what his main job was, and he would tell you it was to get goals - although he did his share of helping out the midfield, that wasn't what he was there for - that's the point.

 

We get your point, but you were saying that he was a "luxury" player, which implies that we changed our team somehow to accomodate his talents. What exactly did we do to "accomodate" him?

[jimmymag]

Considering his undoubted ability, is Jonas the worst finisher we've ever had?

 

Totally pathetic attempt yesterday when he had time and space. Should have at least made goalkeeper work.

[Beezeri]

Considering his undoubted ability, is Jonas the worst finisher we've ever had?

 

Totally pathetic attempt yesterday when he had time and space. Should have at least made goalkeeper work.

 

I've been wondering for a while already is he still keeping the spiderman mask in his pants? At this rate we'll never going to see that celebration thingy

[Gallowgate Toon]

It's probably more to do with a lack of confidence than anything, see his goal against France and for Mallorca, although he didn't score loads they did well last season and he got a couple of goals and a few assists iirc.

[Guest Stephen927]

Considering his undoubted ability, is Jonas the worst finisher we've ever had?

 

Totally pathetic attempt yesterday when he had time and space. Should have at least made goalkeeper work.

 

I've been wondering for a while already is he still keeping the spiderman mask in his pants? At this rate we'll never going to see that celebration thingy

 

Said he wasn't going to do that in this league because he would run the risk of a booking.