Would you take 17th place right now ?

[cp40]

Nope, not having that.

 

I expcet things are bad, if we are in the situation at chirstmas I might start agreeing.

 

 

i will start looking for a map showing championship grounds for your Christmas pressie then.

[johnnypd]

if rebel yell thinks we want to be relegated to be 'proven' right than he is talking out of his arse. there's no need for cretinous bullshit like that as im sure NE5 along with every other fan would be devastated were that to happen.

 

Quote from: rebel_yell12 on Today at 08:56:32 AM

 

This entire thread -- five matches into season -- puts me in mind of Winston Churchill.  He once said that the British people are unique in one respect -- they are the only people in the world who wish to be told exactly how bad it all is.  Rarely have I been surrounded by so many people so determined to be miserable, depressed, and pessimistic.  The footballing equivalent of hypochondriacs.  The club's a bit poorly, and half the "supporters" have the club dead and buried from some incurable disease.

 

Actually, my original point was that it is way too early in the season to be predicting a guarantee of relegation.  Five matches into the season, in the relegation area based on goal differential, and one-third of the people in this thread are happy to take a guarantee of 17th (with no possibility of higher).  That's just out-of-order, in my opinion.  The squad is ravaged by injuries, unsettled by recent developments, and it's far too early to be predicting the end-times.  In fact, I think my very first point was simply that this thread is remarkably pessimistic and depressing.  I got a bit side-tracked with NE5, I admit.  The central part of my argument is simply that it's only September, not April, and only had two poor matches.  It seems a bit over-reactive to be declaring guarantees of relegation at this point.

 

And, allow me to re-post another comment (from myself) that should help clarify my position.

 

I'm not saying you ARE hoping for failure (I can't know what's in your head) but that's how it READS on the board.  I bolded the bit in my earlier post that rather reflects this.  If you read carefully, you might have picked up on that.

 

Perhaps I should have said "expecting" failure, rather than "hoping for" to be more accurate.  As an outsider, of sorts, this is how it reads to me. 

 

 

well that is quite different from what you said - "let me say that many of the people involved in this thread seem as if they WANT the club to be relegated, simply because it will support their earlier arguments about old board/new board sh***"

 

but im glad to hear you dont really think that, it's unfair to slander NE5 with that kind of characterisation, he and others like me want the best for the club, just dont think we're going to get it under Ashley.

 

as for taking 17th, i'd say that's more borne out of habitual disappointment. even if the ownership & managerial situations get sorted and the season turns around a we'll still be mid-table side and achieve nothing, if it doesn't then there's a risk we'll go into long term free-fall. finishing 17th is really no different to finishing 12th, you're still out of europe and in the league, and i think some people would take that at this point. personally i think it is too early but the longer this limbo continues, the more people would take 17th.

[TRon]

NE5 was insisting we were going to get relegated last year as well, it's usual form to be honest. That's not to say I don't realise we are in a bad state right now, but some people are using it to get their boot into their favourite whipping boys, when the truth is no one is innocent in this.

 

We need to get a manager in and we need to get some key players back from injury. That made a big difference last time and it will again this time round. Keegan's leaving has cost us points we can't get back, that's the frustrating part of all this.

[NE5]

if rebel yell thinks we want to be relegated to be 'proven' right than he is talking out of his arse. there's no need for cretinous bullshit like that as im sure NE5 along with every other fan would be devastated were that to happen.

 

Quote from: rebel_yell12 on Today at 08:56:32 AM

 

This entire thread -- five matches into season -- puts me in mind of Winston Churchill.  He once said that the British people are unique in one respect -- they are the only people in the world who wish to be told exactly how bad it all is.  Rarely have I been surrounded by so many people so determined to be miserable, depressed, and pessimistic.  The footballing equivalent of hypochondriacs.  The club's a bit poorly, and half the "supporters" have the club dead and buried from some incurable disease.

 

Actually, my original point was that it is way too early in the season to be predicting a guarantee of relegation.  Five matches into the season, in the relegation area based on goal differential, and one-third of the people in this thread are happy to take a guarantee of 17th (with no possibility of higher).  That's just out-of-order, in my opinion.  The squad is ravaged by injuries, unsettled by recent developments, and it's far too early to be predicting the end-times.  In fact, I think my very first point was simply that this thread is remarkably pessimistic and depressing.  I got a bit side-tracked with NE5, I admit.  The central part of my argument is simply that it's only September, not April, and only had two poor matches.  It seems a bit over-reactive to be declaring guarantees of relegation at this point.

 

And, allow me to re-post another comment (from myself) that should help clarify my position.

 

I'm not saying you ARE hoping for failure (I can't know what's in your head) but that's how it READS on the board.  I bolded the bit in my earlier post that rather reflects this.  If you read carefully, you might have picked up on that.

 

Perhaps I should have said "expecting" failure, rather than "hoping for" to be more accurate.  As an outsider, of sorts, this is how it reads to me. 

 

 

whatever your play on words, which is what it is, I see the club in freefall and a certain relegation fight that could very well be lost unless something changes fast. This will be as a direct result of the club being run in a tightfisted, amateur fashion which caused unrest among the players and a lack of direction within the club, to a degree that I have not seen since 1977-78.

 

I'm sorry if you don't like it, but thats what I see. In the meantime, I'll continue to use my paid for season ticket, hoping the team win, and supporting the players when I'm at the game, but knowing deep down that things are looking very bad.

 

 

[ChrisJbarnes]

i dont think anyone wants to see us relegated but i get what rebelyell means when (s)he says. some people are a bit eager to write us off before a game, and then complain about the situation afterwards

[johnnypd]

NE5 was insisting we were going to get relegated last year as well, it's usual form to be honest. That's not to say I don't realise we are in a bad state right now, but some people are using it to get their boot into their favourite whipping boys, when the truth is no one is innocent in this.

 

We need to get a manager in and we need to get some key players back from injury. That made a big difference last time and it will again this time round. Keegan's leaving has cost us points we can't get back, that's the frustrating part of all this.

 

at one point late last season it was actually out of our hands whether we'd stay up or not and were relying on others dropping points (tho obviously the other teams around us werent going to win all their remaining games, otherwise they wouldnt be down the bottom in the first place), so i can understand why some thought we might go down.

[NE5]

NE5 was insisting we were going to get relegated last year as well,

 

eeer.......not quite. I was saying how the club was slipping towards it, due to lack of investment in quality players and seemed to lack the understanding of how to succeed in football. Several things caused these comments, which as you appear to be so informed on what I've posted, I'm sure you will know what they are. Buying nobody in the January window despite our dangerous position was a situation only saved by the optimism and motivation fuelled by the appointment of Keegan.

 

8 months on, and we are nearer than ever. I'm going to be honest here, while we disagreed before, I didn't think you were so gullible as others. You truly have your head in the sand.

 

it's usual form to be honest. That's not to say I don't realise we are in a bad state right now, but some people are using it to get their boot into their favourite whipping boys, when the truth is no one is innocent in this.

 

We need to get a manager in and we need to get some key players back from injury. That made a big difference last time and it will again this time round. Keegan's leaving has cost us points we can't get back, that's the frustrating part of all this.

 

We need to get a manager in, yes. But who do you think is going to come in and how many years do you think the club can go on like this ie setting their sights so low, with no investment in the team, and hope to get back up the top end of the table. This is a serious question, I'm wondering if you can really understand this or not ? If you believe that Ashleys youth policy will pay ultimate dividends, you are living in cloud cuckoo land. Even our top players we have will not want to stay at a club like this, and from there you set the ball rolling, in the wrong direction.

 

 

[NE5]

i dont think anyone wants to see us relegated but i get what rebelyell means when (s)he says. some people are a bit eager to write us off before a game, and then complain about the situation afterwards

 

no, we are complaining about the situation ahead of it. And thats because we can see it . Blind optimism is what you are talking about, rather than reality.

 

 

[TRon]

NE5 was insisting we were going to get relegated last year as well,

 

eeer.......not quite. I was saying how the club was slipping towards it, due to lack of investment in quality players and seemed to lack the understanding of how to succeed in football. Several things caused these comments, which as you appear to be so informed on what I've posted, I'm sure you will know what they are. Buying nobody in the January window despite our dangerous position was a situation only saved by the optimism and motivation fuelled by the appointment of Keegan.

 

8 months on, and we are nearer than ever. I'm going to be honest here, while we disagreed before, I didn't think you were so gullible as others. You truly have your head in the sand.

 

it's usual form to be honest. That's not to say I don't realise we are in a bad state right now, but some people are using it to get their boot into their favourite whipping boys, when the truth is no one is innocent in this.

 

We need to get a manager in and we need to get some key players back from injury. That made a big difference last time and it will again this time round. Keegan's leaving has cost us points we can't get back, that's the frustrating part of all this.

 

We need to get a manager in, yes. But who do you think is going to come in and how many years do you think the club can go on like this ie setting their sights so low, with no investment in the team, and hope to get back up the top end of the table. This is a serious question, I'm wondering if you can really understand this or not ? If you believe that Ashleys youth policy will pay ultimate dividends, you are living in cloud cuckoo land. Even our top players we have will not want to stay at a club like this, and from there you set the ball rolling, in the wrong direction.

 

 

 

The truth of the matter is, I never tell anybody how to spend their money. We have invested big money in players before Ashley came and a lot of it was wasted on sub-standard players. We need major investment in the team I agree, and would love to see it happen. I would say around £100million needs to be spent in fees and wages just to get us in a position to challenge for Europe. The question is where does this come from? Where would you suggest?

 

As for Ashley's youth policy I'm quite sceptical of it as it happens. This latest signing Gonzalez looks a bit slow to me, but I need to see him over 90 mins. It could be Keegan was right when he said he wasn't good enough, and if that's the case it puts a big question mark over the scouting system I've generally been in favour of.

[Guest rebel_yell12]

I don't think it's blind optimism to say that relegation is hardly guaranteed at this point (five matches into a season).  In fact, I think it's close to blind pessimism to say it is.  I'm not denying the possibility.  I'm just saying that I think it's very pessimistic to be stating it as fact this early.   

 

whatever your play on words, which is what it is, I see the club in freefall and a certain relegation fight that could very well be lost unless something changes fast. This will be as a direct result of the club being run in a tightfisted, amateur fashion which caused unrest among the players and a lack of direction within the club, to a degree that I have not seen since 1977-78.

 

I'm sorry if you don't like it, but thats what I see. In the meantime, I'll continue to use my paid for season ticket, hoping the team win, and supporting the players when I'm at the game, but knowing deep down that things are looking very bad.

 

It's not a play on words, although I do generally take care to use precisely the word which I mean, so I must accept some blame for letting myself become imprecise in my use of language.  Do try to note when I use a word/phrase like "sounds like" or "seems", it's probably important.  It's simply that several people here are expecting failure very, very early.  Too early, imo.  It's only been two bad results, there's plenty of time to sort the problem and still finish comfortably mid-table.  Especially since I think a good portion of the problem is injuries.  The new board cannot entirely be blamed for that, as there was no quality depth BEFORE Ashley come in, either.  Which is why I think making this an "old board v. new board" issue shows more of the mindset of the poster, than what is at issue here.  I could agree with the "amateur" problem before the "tight-fisted" problem, though, as I think inexperience has led to some of the current issues.  Personally, I've always found "realism" to be the bastion of cynical  pessimists who don't wish to admit they are pessimists. 

 

I agree, by the way, that the club needs to sort the management issue quickly.  I just don't think that, at this point, it's time to be calling for an ME to investigate cause of death (or cause of relegation) for Newcastle United.  The club is poorly enough a doctor (ie, new manager) should be called though.  If that makes me an optimist, well at least I won't be miserable half (or more) of my life whilst expecting the worst.  I can live with that.

[madras]

NE5 was insisting we were going to get relegated last year as well,

 

eeer.......not quite. I was saying how the club was slipping towards it, due to lack of investment in quality players and seemed to lack the understanding of how to succeed in football. Several things caused these comments, which as you appear to be so informed on what I've posted, I'm sure you will know what they are. Buying nobody in the January window despite our dangerous position was a situation only saved by the optimism and motivation fuelled by the appointment of Keegan.

 

8 months on, and we are nearer than ever. I'm going to be honest here, while we disagreed before, I didn't think you were so gullible as others. You truly have your head in the sand.

 

it's usual form to be honest. That's not to say I don't realise we are in a bad state right now, but some people are using it to get their boot into their favourite whipping boys, when the truth is no one is innocent in this.

 

We need to get a manager in and we need to get some key players back from injury. That made a big difference last time and it will again this time round. Keegan's leaving has cost us points we can't get back, that's the frustrating part of all this.

 

We need to get a manager in, yes. But who do you think is going to come in and how many years do you think the club can go on like this ie setting their sights so low, with no investment in the team, and hope to get back up the top end of the table. This is a serious question, I'm wondering if you can really understand this or not ? If you believe that Ashleys youth policy will pay ultimate dividends, you are living in cloud cuckoo land. Even our top players we have will not want to stay at a club like this, and from there you set the ball rolling, in the wrong direction.

 

 

 

The truth of the matter is, I never tell anybody how to spend their money. We have invested big money in players before Ashley came and a lot of it was wasted on sub-standard players. We need major investment in the team I agree, and would love to see it happen. I would say around £100million needs to be spent in fees and wages just to get us in a position to challenge for Europe. The question is where does this come from? Where would you suggest?

 

As for Ashley's youth policy I'm quite sceptical of it as it happens. This latest signing Gonzalez looks a bit slow to me, but I need to see him over 90 mins. It could be Keegan was right when he said he wasn't good enough, and if that's the case it puts a big question mark over the scouting system I've generally been in favour of.

bit like saying that djemba djemba puts abig question mark of fergusons player spotting abilities.

[cp40]

i dont think anyone wants to see us relegated but i get what rebelyell means when (s)he says. some people are a bit eager to write us off before a game, and then complain about the situation afterwards

 

no, we are complaining about the situation ahead of it. And thats because we can see it . Blind optimism is what you are talking about, rather than reality.

 

 

 

 

im with ne5 on this one, i cant remember ever feeling this pesimistic in september, in the 25 years since my first season ticket.

[TRon]

NE5 was insisting we were going to get relegated last year as well,

 

eeer.......not quite. I was saying how the club was slipping towards it, due to lack of investment in quality players and seemed to lack the understanding of how to succeed in football. Several things caused these comments, which as you appear to be so informed on what I've posted, I'm sure you will know what they are. Buying nobody in the January window despite our dangerous position was a situation only saved by the optimism and motivation fuelled by the appointment of Keegan.

 

8 months on, and we are nearer than ever. I'm going to be honest here, while we disagreed before, I didn't think you were so gullible as others. You truly have your head in the sand.

 

it's usual form to be honest. That's not to say I don't realise we are in a bad state right now, but some people are using it to get their boot into their favourite whipping boys, when the truth is no one is innocent in this.

 

We need to get a manager in and we need to get some key players back from injury. That made a big difference last time and it will again this time round. Keegan's leaving has cost us points we can't get back, that's the frustrating part of all this.

 

We need to get a manager in, yes. But who do you think is going to come in and how many years do you think the club can go on like this ie setting their sights so low, with no investment in the team, and hope to get back up the top end of the table. This is a serious question, I'm wondering if you can really understand this or not ? If you believe that Ashleys youth policy will pay ultimate dividends, you are living in cloud cuckoo land. Even our top players we have will not want to stay at a club like this, and from there you set the ball rolling, in the wrong direction.

 

 

 

The truth of the matter is, I never tell anybody how to spend their money. We have invested big money in players before Ashley came and a lot of it was wasted on sub-standard players. We need major investment in the team I agree, and would love to see it happen. I would say around £100million needs to be spent in fees and wages just to get us in a position to challenge for Europe. The question is where does this come from? Where would you suggest?

 

As for Ashley's youth policy I'm quite sceptical of it as it happens. This latest signing Gonzalez looks a bit slow to me, but I need to see him over 90 mins. It could be Keegan was right when he said he wasn't good enough, and if that's the case it puts a big question mark over the scouting system I've generally been in favour of.

bit like saying that djemba djemba puts abig question mark of fergusons player spotting abilities.

 

Fergie isn't relying on Djemba Djemba being the answer to his prayers, he has enough quality players already on board. For us to push on we really need players to be a notch above what we've already got. It could be that Gonzalez is, but if he's not I will be disappointed.

[NE5]

NE5 was insisting we were going to get relegated last year as well,

 

eeer.......not quite. I was saying how the club was slipping towards it, due to lack of investment in quality players and seemed to lack the understanding of how to succeed in football. Several things caused these comments, which as you appear to be so informed on what I've posted, I'm sure you will know what they are. Buying nobody in the January window despite our dangerous position was a situation only saved by the optimism and motivation fuelled by the appointment of Keegan.

 

8 months on, and we are nearer than ever. I'm going to be honest here, while we disagreed before, I didn't think you were so gullible as others. You truly have your head in the sand.

 

it's usual form to be honest. That's not to say I don't realise we are in a bad state right now, but some people are using it to get their boot into their favourite whipping boys, when the truth is no one is innocent in this.

 

We need to get a manager in and we need to get some key players back from injury. That made a big difference last time and it will again this time round. Keegan's leaving has cost us points we can't get back, that's the frustrating part of all this.

 

We need to get a manager in, yes. But who do you think is going to come in and how many years do you think the club can go on like this ie setting their sights so low, with no investment in the team, and hope to get back up the top end of the table. This is a serious question, I'm wondering if you can really understand this or not ? If you believe that Ashleys youth policy will pay ultimate dividends, you are living in cloud cuckoo land. Even our top players we have will not want to stay at a club like this, and from there you set the ball rolling, in the wrong direction.

 

 

 

The truth of the matter is, I never tell anybody how to spend their money. We have invested big money in players before Ashley came and a lot of it was wasted on sub-standard players. We need major investment in the team I agree, and would love to see it happen. I would say around £100million needs to be spent in fees and wages just to get us in a position to challenge for Europe. The question is where does this come from? Where would you suggest?

 

As for Ashley's youth policy I'm quite sceptical of it as it happens. This latest signing Gonzalez looks a bit slow to me, but I need to see him over 90 mins. It could be Keegan was right when he said he wasn't good enough, and if that's the case it puts a big question mark over the scouting system I've generally been in favour of.

 

FWIW, I will remind you again that for the money we have spent, we qualified for europe more than everybody but 4 teams over 15 years, we qualified for the Champions League, reached 2 FA Cup Finals, signed many top class international footballers including a world record signing, doubled the gates, transformed the ground from a rubbish tip into one of the best and biggest grounds in the country and filled it every game, and built a new training complex that had been needed for decades.

 

So, don't make out that the club has taken in pots of money and wasted it all, because it certainly hasn't. If you do, then there lies your own particular problem. You just lack sound judgement and perception, sadly.

 

I only ask that the club punches its weight, in the long run. Which is one of the biggest in the country, and the 3rd biggest gate , courtesy of being built up by the previous board that you slate. Nobody asked Ashley do come in and do an Abramovic, however anybody buying a football club should be aware that it needs to succeed on the pitch in order to generate more money, or keep generating money. Its not good enough to see a club like us needing players and adopting a penny pinching attitude that only the smaller clubs adopt. We have to act bigger than them if we want to be better than them.

 

 

[NG32]

We needed investment for the first team and the whole squad.  It never happend, for that reason you have to look at the people who run the club.

[TRon]

NE5 was insisting we were going to get relegated last year as well,

 

eeer.......not quite. I was saying how the club was slipping towards it, due to lack of investment in quality players and seemed to lack the understanding of how to succeed in football. Several things caused these comments, which as you appear to be so informed on what I've posted, I'm sure you will know what they are. Buying nobody in the January window despite our dangerous position was a situation only saved by the optimism and motivation fuelled by the appointment of Keegan.

 

8 months on, and we are nearer than ever. I'm going to be honest here, while we disagreed before, I didn't think you were so gullible as others. You truly have your head in the sand.

 

it's usual form to be honest. That's not to say I don't realise we are in a bad state right now, but some people are using it to get their boot into their favourite whipping boys, when the truth is no one is innocent in this.

 

We need to get a manager in and we need to get some key players back from injury. That made a big difference last time and it will again this time round. Keegan's leaving has cost us points we can't get back, that's the frustrating part of all this.

 

We need to get a manager in, yes. But who do you think is going to come in and how many years do you think the club can go on like this ie setting their sights so low, with no investment in the team, and hope to get back up the top end of the table. This is a serious question, I'm wondering if you can really understand this or not ? If you believe that Ashleys youth policy will pay ultimate dividends, you are living in cloud cuckoo land. Even our top players we have will not want to stay at a club like this, and from there you set the ball rolling, in the wrong direction.

 

 

 

The truth of the matter is, I never tell anybody how to spend their money. We have invested big money in players before Ashley came and a lot of it was wasted on sub-standard players. We need major investment in the team I agree, and would love to see it happen. I would say around £100million needs to be spent in fees and wages just to get us in a position to challenge for Europe. The question is where does this come from? Where would you suggest?

 

As for Ashley's youth policy I'm quite sceptical of it as it happens. This latest signing Gonzalez looks a bit slow to me, but I need to see him over 90 mins. It could be Keegan was right when he said he wasn't good enough, and if that's the case it puts a big question mark over the scouting system I've generally been in favour of.

 

FWIW, I will remind you again that for the money we have spent, we qualified for europe more than everybody but 4 teams over 15 years, we qualified for the Champions League, reached 2 FA Cup Finals, signed many top class international footballers including a world record signing, doubled the gates, transformed the ground from a rubbish tip into one of the best and biggest grounds in the country and filled it every game, and built a new training complex that had been needed for decades.

 

So, don't make out that the club has taken in pots of money and wasted it all, because it certainly hasn't. If you do, then there lies your own particular problem. You just lack sound judgement and perception, sadly.

 

I only ask that the club punches its weight, in the long run. Which is one of the biggest in the country, and the 3rd biggest gate , courtesy of being built up by the previous board that you slate. Nobody asked Ashley do come in and do an Abramovic, however anybody buying a football club should be aware that it needs to succeed on the pitch in order to generate more money, or keep generating money. Its not good enough to see a club like us needing players and adopting a penny pinching attitude that only the smaller clubs adopt. We have to act bigger than them if we want to be better than them.

 

 

 

You're failing to realise (or admit) that when we stopped qualifying for Europe, Shepherd tightened the purse strings as well. When the money's already been spent you can't automatically conjure it from nowhere. The season Bowyer was signed, how much did we spend even though we were in the Champions League? Fuck all is the answer I believe.

 

The season when Souness left and the players miraculously reached Europe, how much was given to Roeder? Was the squad strong enough then to compete for honours because I'd love to see you attempt to argue it was?

[Robster]

 

FWIW, I will remind you again that for the money we have spent, we qualified for europe more than everybody but 4 teams over 15 years, we qualified for the Champions League, reached 2 FA Cup Finals, signed many top class international footballers including a world record signing, doubled the gates, transformed the ground from a rubbish tip into one of the best and biggest grounds in the country and filled it every game, and built a new training complex that had been needed for decades.

 

So, don't make out that the club has taken in pots of money and wasted it all, because it certainly hasn't. If you do, then there lies your own particular problem. You just lack sound judgement and perception, sadly.

 

I only ask that the club punches its weight, in the long run. Which is one of the biggest in the country, and the 3rd biggest gate , courtesy of being built up by the previous board that you slate. Nobody asked Ashley do come in and do an Abramovic, however anybody buying a football club should be aware that it needs to succeed on the pitch in order to generate more money, or keep generating money. Its not good enough to see a club like us needing players and adopting a penny pinching attitude that only the smaller clubs adopt. We have to act bigger than them if we want to be better than them.

 

 

 

Its weird thinking about it but if they were intent on sticking to a very tight budget and keeping net spending to a minimum, then Allardyce would and should have been much more their type of manager as he had shown that he can work alongside the smaller club style mentality.

Adds a diiferent slant as to why they sacked him and brought Keegan in.

[ChrisJbarnes]

i dont think anyone wants to see us relegated but i get what rebelyell means when (s)he says. some people are a bit eager to write us off before a game, and then complain about the situation afterwards

 

no, we are complaining about the situation ahead of it. And thats because we can see it . Blind optimism is what you are talking about, rather than reality.

 

 

 

whilst i agree that people do foresee stuff happening, i do thikn that people (and im not implying this is you because i havent read most of the thread) do need to get a grip if they seriously think we are down already, coffin nailed, deed signed and sealed etc, because if we get a win against blackburn i reckon itll be a completely different kettle of fish

[johnnypd]

 

FWIW, I will remind you again that for the money we have spent, we qualified for europe more than everybody but 4 teams over 15 years, we qualified for the Champions League, reached 2 FA Cup Finals, signed many top class international footballers including a world record signing, doubled the gates, transformed the ground from a rubbish tip into one of the best and biggest grounds in the country and filled it every game, and built a new training complex that had been needed for decades.

 

So, don't make out that the club has taken in pots of money and wasted it all, because it certainly hasn't. If you do, then there lies your own particular problem. You just lack sound judgement and perception, sadly.

 

I only ask that the club punches its weight, in the long run. Which is one of the biggest in the country, and the 3rd biggest gate , courtesy of being built up by the previous board that you slate. Nobody asked Ashley do come in and do an Abramovic, however anybody buying a football club should be aware that it needs to succeed on the pitch in order to generate more money, or keep generating money. Its not good enough to see a club like us needing players and adopting a penny pinching attitude that only the smaller clubs adopt. We have to act bigger than them if we want to be better than them.

 

 

 

Its weird thinking about it but if they were intent on sticking to a very tight budget and keeping net spending to a minimum, then Allardyce would and should have been much more their type of manager as he had shown that he can work alongside the smaller club style mentality.

Adds a diiferent slant as to why they sacked him and brought Keegan in.

 

that's a really good point, allardyce fits the bill perfectly for that type of club. obviously his sides didnt play good football but beggars cant be choosers. maybe keegan was more of a PR exercise intended to placate fans whilst behind the scenes the purse strings were tightened?

[NE5]

NE5 was insisting we were going to get relegated last year as well,

 

eeer.......not quite. I was saying how the club was slipping towards it, due to lack of investment in quality players and seemed to lack the understanding of how to succeed in football. Several things caused these comments, which as you appear to be so informed on what I've posted, I'm sure you will know what they are. Buying nobody in the January window despite our dangerous position was a situation only saved by the optimism and motivation fuelled by the appointment of Keegan.

 

8 months on, and we are nearer than ever. I'm going to be honest here, while we disagreed before, I didn't think you were so gullible as others. You truly have your head in the sand.

 

it's usual form to be honest. That's not to say I don't realise we are in a bad state right now, but some people are using it to get their boot into their favourite whipping boys, when the truth is no one is innocent in this.

 

We need to get a manager in and we need to get some key players back from injury. That made a big difference last time and it will again this time round. Keegan's leaving has cost us points we can't get back, that's the frustrating part of all this.

 

We need to get a manager in, yes. But who do you think is going to come in and how many years do you think the club can go on like this ie setting their sights so low, with no investment in the team, and hope to get back up the top end of the table. This is a serious question, I'm wondering if you can really understand this or not ? If you believe that Ashleys youth policy will pay ultimate dividends, you are living in cloud cuckoo land. Even our top players we have will not want to stay at a club like this, and from there you set the ball rolling, in the wrong direction.

 

 

 

The truth of the matter is, I never tell anybody how to spend their money. We have invested big money in players before Ashley came and a lot of it was wasted on sub-standard players. We need major investment in the team I agree, and would love to see it happen. I would say around £100million needs to be spent in fees and wages just to get us in a position to challenge for Europe. The question is where does this come from? Where would you suggest?

 

As for Ashley's youth policy I'm quite sceptical of it as it happens. This latest signing Gonzalez looks a bit slow to me, but I need to see him over 90 mins. It could be Keegan was right when he said he wasn't good enough, and if that's the case it puts a big question mark over the scouting system I've generally been in favour of.

 

FWIW, I will remind you again that for the money we have spent, we qualified for europe more than everybody but 4 teams over 15 years, we qualified for the Champions League, reached 2 FA Cup Finals, signed many top class international footballers including a world record signing, doubled the gates, transformed the ground from a rubbish tip into one of the best and biggest grounds in the country and filled it every game, and built a new training complex that had been needed for decades.

 

So, don't make out that the club has taken in pots of money and wasted it all, because it certainly hasn't. If you do, then there lies your own particular problem. You just lack sound judgement and perception, sadly.

 

I only ask that the club punches its weight, in the long run. Which is one of the biggest in the country, and the 3rd biggest gate , courtesy of being built up by the previous board that you slate. Nobody asked Ashley do come in and do an Abramovic, however anybody buying a football club should be aware that it needs to succeed on the pitch in order to generate more money, or keep generating money. Its not good enough to see a club like us needing players and adopting a penny pinching attitude that only the smaller clubs adopt. We have to act bigger than them if we want to be better than them.

 

 

 

You're failing to realise (or admit) that when we stopped qualifying for Europe, Shepherd tightened the purse strings as well. When the money's already been spent you can't automatically conjure it from nowhere. The season Bowyer was signed, how much did we spend even though we were in the Champions League? Fuck all is the answer I believe.

 

The season when Souness left and the players miraculously reached Europe, how much was given to Roeder? Was the squad strong enough then to compete for honours because I'd love to see you attempt to argue it was?

 

9m.

 

The rest of the post isn't advocating spending money we don't have or setting up the club so it needs to stay in the Champions League is it, like Leeds did  ?

 

[Mick]

 

that's a really good point, allardyce fits the bill perfectly for that type of club. obviously his sides didnt play good football but beggars cant be choosers. maybe keegan was more of a PR exercise intended to placate fans whilst behind the scenes the purse strings were tightened?

 

Do you really think Keegan was brought in to placate the fans while purse strings were tightened?  I can't think of a worse person to bring in if that's really what they were trying to do.

[NE5]

 

FWIW, I will remind you again that for the money we have spent, we qualified for europe more than everybody but 4 teams over 15 years, we qualified for the Champions League, reached 2 FA Cup Finals, signed many top class international footballers including a world record signing, doubled the gates, transformed the ground from a rubbish tip into one of the best and biggest grounds in the country and filled it every game, and built a new training complex that had been needed for decades.

 

So, don't make out that the club has taken in pots of money and wasted it all, because it certainly hasn't. If you do, then there lies your own particular problem. You just lack sound judgement and perception, sadly.

 

I only ask that the club punches its weight, in the long run. Which is one of the biggest in the country, and the 3rd biggest gate , courtesy of being built up by the previous board that you slate. Nobody asked Ashley do come in and do an Abramovic, however anybody buying a football club should be aware that it needs to succeed on the pitch in order to generate more money, or keep generating money. Its not good enough to see a club like us needing players and adopting a penny pinching attitude that only the smaller clubs adopt. We have to act bigger than them if we want to be better than them.

 

 

 

Its weird thinking about it but if they were intent on sticking to a very tight budget and keeping net spending to a minimum, then Allardyce would and should have been much more their type of manager as he had shown that he can work alongside the smaller club style mentality.

Adds a diiferent slant as to why they sacked him and brought Keegan in.

 

True, and it also asks the question "who will the next one be if they don't sell up soon"

 

 

[johnnypd]

 

that's a really good point, allardyce fits the bill perfectly for that type of club. obviously his sides didnt play good football but beggars cant be choosers. maybe keegan was more of a PR exercise intended to placate fans whilst behind the scenes the purse strings were tightened?

 

Do you really think Keegan was brought in to placate the fans while purse strings were tightened?  I can't think of a worse person to bring in if that's really what they were trying to do.

 

i disagree, in terms of creating a positive buzz there is no better individual in the world than keegan, and getting him on board is something that will keep fans onside, even if the purse strings are tightened. for instance, and im not wanting to misrepresent his views here as he was skeptical of the board before anyone else, but SSR on deadline day said something like "Sunderland may have spent shitloads of money but we've got KK. i think i'd rather be in our situation". Similarly, even though i was disappointed with our window and an Ashley-skeptic, i was still optimistic for the sole reason that we had a good manager. how many signed up for 3 years due to looking forward to a keegan team? i bet had allardyce been in charge the numbers for that wouldve been a tad lower.

 

that it didnt turn out well is more down to the club (and keegan too) not thinking it through properly.

[abcdefg]

 

This entire thread -- five matches into season -- puts me in mind of Winston Churchill.  He once said that the British people are unique in one respect -- they are the only people in the world who wish to be told exactly how bad it all is.  Rarely have I been surrounded by so many people so determined to be miserable, depressed, and pessimistic.  The footballing equivalent of hypochondriacs.  The club's a bit poorly, and half the "supporters" have the club dead and buried from some incurable disease.

 

And I've grown up a Liverpool supporter -- we all know Liverpool supporters never have a good whinge or panic.

 

half the "supporters" were attracted back to the club in 1992-93. The club is now on the way back to those days, now that the board who rescued the club from decades of ruin have gone. The only thing we can hope for is for similar people to come in and do the same thing again.

 

Ashley and his crowd of amateurs have been exposed for what they are. The club is not a "bit poorly", its in freefall.

 

This has been coming since Ashley, his cahoots and his lack of understanding of football walked through the door.

 

 

 

........many of the people involved in this thread seem as if they WANT the club to be relegated, simply because it will support their earlier arguments about old board/new board sh***.  That's f***ing ridiculous. 

 

I wouldn't say it's all that many people, but there's certainly some who won't let it lie, relishing saying "I told you so", as if that helps anyone, also imagining that whatever people thought of the old owners had any bearing on them selling up, which was a business decision by John Hall, they weren't forced out (well FF was, but not by us). It's just dull and aimless arguments.

 

Enjoyed your post btw, sometimes you do need an 'outsider' to point out the truth.

[Mick]

 

i disagree, in terms of creating a positive buzz there is no better individual in the world than keegan, and getting him on board is something that will keep fans onside, even if the purse strings are tightened. for instance, and im not wanting to misrepresent his views here as he was skeptical of the board before anyone else, but SSR on deadline day said something like "Sunderland may have spent shitloads of money but we've got KK. i think i'd rather be in our situation". Similarly, even though i was disappointed with our window and an Ashley-skeptic, i was still optimistic for the sole reason that we had a good manager. how many signed up for 3 years due to looking forward to a keegan team? i bet had allardyce been in charge the numbers for that wouldve been a tad lower.

 

that it didnt turn out well is more down to the club (and keegan too) not thinking it through properly.

 

Did the club need to placate the fans though?  I can't remember too much dissent when they sacked Allardyce.