Newcastle United Supporters Club

[Guest The Libertine]

"developing...the first team squad" could quite feasibly mean bringing transfers in. that's not clear cut. thankfully dennis wise took the time to clarify such matters for us.

 

or "developing the squad" by bringing young players through, getting new players playing well, old players playing well again etc.

 

Thanks for backing up my point that the statement you quoted can be interpreted in a variety of ways and isn't clear cut. how nice of you to argue against your own position.

 

thankfully wise's statement is more clear.

 

which is my entire point. nobody knows what has happened fully other than the few people involved. so why is keegan the hero and ashley and his team the villains?

 

nobody has answered that yet in any respectable way.

 

Because of what Kevin Keegan has done for Newcastle United.

 

If you at least don't acknowledge and understand that then I know I shouldn't really say this but honestly don't know how you can call yourself a fan.

 

Before anyone says it Ashley has done nothing for the club - if he gets his asking price he will have not put a penny in and will have fact profited - why should I believe a man who has done fuck all?

 

 

 

 

"nostalgia > now" apparently. i was as happy as anyone during the entertainers days but they were nearly 13 years ago.

 

as i said a few months ago, almost everyone was happy with ashley before keegan quit and now he's "done fuck all" in his time here. two words, "almost leeds".

 

plenty of people were skeptical about ashley and were giving him the transfer window to prove himself, which he did, though sadly in the wrong way.

 

i doubt it was "plenty" but it definitely wasnt all the people who wanted him out after keegan left. scapegoat + kneejerk and all that.

 

because people weren't aware there was such a big problem behind the scenes until the keegan fiasco blew up. they're hardly going to have an opinion on an event before it happens.

 

they soon formed one and stuck with it despite not knowing anything though.

 

as chairman ashley is ultimately responsible for the state of the club so whatever the fine details this reflects very badly on him.

 

as for keegan, wise, llambias, i think people are seeing that keegan has left and assuming he had a pretty good reason for doing this. if the board were interfering in transfers, which looks to be the case given petulant nufc statements like the 'it's a fact' one and keegan's LMA response, then i can see why people would favour Keegan. why would we favour a backroom scouting staff who have forced out a manager?

 

why favour a manager who has quit and, however indirectly, is at least partly responsible for the mess we're in now?

[johnnypd]

"developing...the first team squad" could quite feasibly mean bringing transfers in. that's not clear cut. thankfully dennis wise took the time to clarify such matters for us.

 

or "developing the squad" by bringing young players through, getting new players playing well, old players playing well again etc.

 

Thanks for backing up my point that the statement you quoted can be interpreted in a variety of ways and isn't clear cut. how nice of you to argue against your own position.

 

thankfully wise's statement is more clear.

 

which is my entire point. nobody knows what has happened fully other than the few people involved. so why is keegan the hero and ashley and his team the villains?

 

nobody has answered that yet in any respectable way.

 

Because of what Kevin Keegan has done for Newcastle United.

 

If you at least don't acknowledge and understand that then I know I shouldn't really say this but honestly don't know how you can call yourself a fan.

 

Before anyone says it Ashley has done nothing for the club - if he gets his asking price he will have not put a penny in and will have fact profited - why should I believe a man who has done fuck all?

 

 

 

 

"nostalgia > now" apparently. i was as happy as anyone during the entertainers days but they were nearly 13 years ago.

 

as i said a few months ago, almost everyone was happy with ashley before keegan quit and now he's "done fuck all" in his time here. two words, "almost leeds".

 

plenty of people were skeptical about ashley and were giving him the transfer window to prove himself, which he did, though sadly in the wrong way.

 

i doubt it was "plenty" but it definitely wasnt all the people who wanted him out after keegan left. scapegoat + kneejerk and all that.

 

because people weren't aware there was such a big problem behind the scenes until the keegan fiasco blew up. they're hardly going to have an opinion on an event before it happens.

 

they soon formed one and stuck with it despite not knowing anything though.

 

as chairman ashley is ultimately responsible for the state of the club so whatever the fine details this reflects very badly on him.

 

as for keegan, wise, llambias, i think people are seeing that keegan has left and assuming he had a pretty good reason for doing this. if the board were interfering in transfers, which looks to be the case given petulant nufc statements like the 'it's a fact' one and keegan's LMA response, then i can see why people would favour Keegan. why would we favour a backroom scouting staff who have forced out a manager?

 

Ashley is the chairman?

 

Btw the mongs were outside SJP with their boycoutt banners before the club or Keegan had even made a statement.

 

Owner then if we're being pedantic. doesnt change the point that the buck stops with him.

 

'mongs' were outside SJP waiting to know what was going on as every press source in the country was reporting that Keegan had been 'sacked'. some were going off that info and saying stuff like 'if true ashley must go' which is fair enough. half a day later the club backtracked with a statement keegan hadn't been sacked and everyone started celebrating. so at that point they seemed pretty pleased.

[Tooj]

"We want Ashley's head but we dont know why".

 

Making it so the manager felt his position was untenable, lying to the fans, piss poor communication ever since Mort left, failure to back his manager's to sufficient levels in transfer windows. There's some for you.

 

Mate, your absolutely clueless. I dont know why you even bother.

 

Clueless aye of course I am. I'm glad you found my post that clueless that you can't even respond to it without resorting to petty insults.

 

johnnypd has addressed my points, if you disagree with them then state why.

 

It wasnt an insult, it was a fact, you genuinely dont know enough about what happened at the club to form a rational argument. 

 

People have decided upon an action without even knowing the full craic. Its embarressing.

 

For all you know, Keegan could be 100% responsible for what transpired, good chance of it being the case, Keegan could be responsible for our lack of acivity this window, its all a possilbity but all i hear is faint patter about his accountability becasue "he's a foo-kin ledge, lyke".

 

Like i say, people want Ashley's head, and they dont know why.

 

Judge, Jury and Executioner yet you have no evidence - all you have is the fact that "serial quitter" Kevin Keegan has quit again and that must therefore mean that the board have royally fucked up.

 

I dont know if they have, or havent but being a logical person ill sit back and find out what happned before saying someon is wrong and therefore needs to go.

 

 

"We want Ashley's head but we dont know why".

 

Making it so the manager felt his position was untenable, lying to the fans, piss poor communication ever since Mort left, failure to back his manager's to sufficient levels in transfer windows. There's some for you.

 

Probably wrong on all counts. But a popular theory nevertheless.

 

How so?

 

can't see how any of them can be wrong.

 

had keegan not felt his situation to be untenable he'd still be here, so point one is obviously true

 

he said the club didnt owe a penny to anyone, then said we still had debts. he said keegan was in charge, then a club statement said otherwise. so it looks like ashley, or at least the board on his behalf, have lied to us.

 

and if theyve lied, then that is a flaw in communication, which shows point three to be true. and regardless, communication is about perception, if a large portion of fans feel they havent been communicated with properly, then they havent.

 

the failure to back the manager to sufficient levels is undeniable, it's not even a point of debate.

 

Fredbob, pick out each of those points as to what johnny has responded to mine with and give me your own opinion on each and every one of those.

[johnnypd]

"developing...the first team squad" could quite feasibly mean bringing transfers in. that's not clear cut. thankfully dennis wise took the time to clarify such matters for us.

 

or "developing the squad" by bringing young players through, getting new players playing well, old players playing well again etc.

 

Thanks for backing up my point that the statement you quoted can be interpreted in a variety of ways and isn't clear cut. how nice of you to argue against your own position.

 

thankfully wise's statement is more clear.

 

which is my entire point. nobody knows what has happened fully other than the few people involved. so why is keegan the hero and ashley and his team the villains?

 

nobody has answered that yet in any respectable way.

 

Because of what Kevin Keegan has done for Newcastle United.

 

If you at least don't acknowledge and understand that then I know I shouldn't really say this but honestly don't know how you can call yourself a fan.

 

Before anyone says it Ashley has done nothing for the club - if he gets his asking price he will have not put a penny in and will have fact profited - why should I believe a man who has done fuck all?

 

 

 

 

"nostalgia > now" apparently. i was as happy as anyone during the entertainers days but they were nearly 13 years ago.

 

as i said a few months ago, almost everyone was happy with ashley before keegan quit and now he's "done fuck all" in his time here. two words, "almost leeds".

 

plenty of people were skeptical about ashley and were giving him the transfer window to prove himself, which he did, though sadly in the wrong way.

 

i doubt it was "plenty" but it definitely wasnt all the people who wanted him out after keegan left. scapegoat + kneejerk and all that.

 

because people weren't aware there was such a big problem behind the scenes until the keegan fiasco blew up. they're hardly going to have an opinion on an event before it happens.

 

they soon formed one and stuck with it despite not knowing anything though.

 

as chairman ashley is ultimately responsible for the state of the club so whatever the fine details this reflects very badly on him.

 

as for keegan, wise, llambias, i think people are seeing that keegan has left and assuming he had a pretty good reason for doing this. if the board were interfering in transfers, which looks to be the case given petulant nufc statements like the 'it's a fact' one and keegan's LMA response, then i can see why people would favour Keegan. why would we favour a backroom scouting staff who have forced out a manager?

 

why favour a manager who has quit and, however indirectly, is at least partly responsible for the mess we're in now?

 

because it looks like he was undermined and his job interfered with?

 

i think it is a bit of a stretch to suggest everything was fine and one day keegan walks in and says 'right im off cya'. had that been the case i dont think he'd have much sympathy. people are trying to look a bit deeper and gauge the reasons why he quit, the root cause which wouldve caused this problem sooner or later regardless of the manager, whether it be redknapp, deschamps keegan or curbishley, all of whom have left for similar reasons.

 

everyone was pissed off with Shepherd when he interfered with Robson's job and undermined him in the last year of SBR's tenure. robson had a different personality to most other managers and wanted to stick it out, but ashley's board deserve the same stick for doing the same thing, only to a greater degree.

[Guest The Libertine]

"developing...the first team squad" could quite feasibly mean bringing transfers in. that's not clear cut. thankfully dennis wise took the time to clarify such matters for us.

 

or "developing the squad" by bringing young players through, getting new players playing well, old players playing well again etc.

 

Thanks for backing up my point that the statement you quoted can be interpreted in a variety of ways and isn't clear cut. how nice of you to argue against your own position.

 

thankfully wise's statement is more clear.

 

which is my entire point. nobody knows what has happened fully other than the few people involved. so why is keegan the hero and ashley and his team the villains?

 

nobody has answered that yet in any respectable way.

 

Because of what Kevin Keegan has done for Newcastle United.

 

If you at least don't acknowledge and understand that then I know I shouldn't really say this but honestly don't know how you can call yourself a fan.

 

Before anyone says it Ashley has done nothing for the club - if he gets his asking price he will have not put a penny in and will have fact profited - why should I believe a man who has done fuck all?

 

 

 

 

"nostalgia > now" apparently. i was as happy as anyone during the entertainers days but they were nearly 13 years ago.

 

as i said a few months ago, almost everyone was happy with ashley before keegan quit and now he's "done fuck all" in his time here. two words, "almost leeds".

 

plenty of people were skeptical about ashley and were giving him the transfer window to prove himself, which he did, though sadly in the wrong way.

 

i doubt it was "plenty" but it definitely wasnt all the people who wanted him out after keegan left. scapegoat + kneejerk and all that.

 

because people weren't aware there was such a big problem behind the scenes until the keegan fiasco blew up. they're hardly going to have an opinion on an event before it happens.

 

they soon formed one and stuck with it despite not knowing anything though.

 

as chairman ashley is ultimately responsible for the state of the club so whatever the fine details this reflects very badly on him.

 

as for keegan, wise, llambias, i think people are seeing that keegan has left and assuming he had a pretty good reason for doing this. if the board were interfering in transfers, which looks to be the case given petulant nufc statements like the 'it's a fact' one and keegan's LMA response, then i can see why people would favour Keegan. why would we favour a backroom scouting staff who have forced out a manager?

 

why favour a manager who has quit and, however indirectly, is at least partly responsible for the mess we're in now?

 

because it looks like he was undermined and his job interfered with?

 

i think it is a bit of a stretch to suggest everything was fine and one day keegan walks in and says 'right im off cya'. had that been the case i dont think he'd have much sympathy. people are trying to look a bit deeper and gauge the reasons why he quit, the root cause which wouldve caused this problem sooner or later regardless of the manager, whether it be redknapp, deschamps keegan or curbishley, all of whom have left for similar reasons.

 

it looks that way if you want it to.

 

people are doing that with essentially nothing to work with and are somehow making some rather strong assumptions/conclusions. thats my main issue.

 

 

 

 

[Robster]

 

it looks that way if you want it to.

 

people are doing that with essentially nothing to work with and are somehow making some rather strong assumptions/conclusions. thats my main issue.

 

But your signature suggests that you think Kevin Keegan is very much at fault

[Guest The Libertine]

 

it looks that way if you want it to.

 

people are doing that with essentially nothing to work with and are somehow making some rather strong assumptions/conclusions. thats my main issue.

 

But your signature suggests that you think Kevin Keegan is very much at fault

 

just pointing out a few quotes for people to think about. or ignore. whichever.

 

ive said from the start my guess would be that everyone is at fault. whatever the ratio is will come eventually and hopefully this will all end.

[johnnypd]

"developing...the first team squad" could quite feasibly mean bringing transfers in. that's not clear cut. thankfully dennis wise took the time to clarify such matters for us.

 

or "developing the squad" by bringing young players through, getting new players playing well, old players playing well again etc.

 

Thanks for backing up my point that the statement you quoted can be interpreted in a variety of ways and isn't clear cut. how nice of you to argue against your own position.

 

thankfully wise's statement is more clear.

 

which is my entire point. nobody knows what has happened fully other than the few people involved. so why is keegan the hero and ashley and his team the villains?

 

nobody has answered that yet in any respectable way.

 

Because of what Kevin Keegan has done for Newcastle United.

 

If you at least don't acknowledge and understand that then I know I shouldn't really say this but honestly don't know how you can call yourself a fan.

 

Before anyone says it Ashley has done nothing for the club - if he gets his asking price he will have not put a penny in and will have fact profited - why should I believe a man who has done fuck all?

 

 

 

 

"nostalgia > now" apparently. i was as happy as anyone during the entertainers days but they were nearly 13 years ago.

 

as i said a few months ago, almost everyone was happy with ashley before keegan quit and now he's "done fuck all" in his time here. two words, "almost leeds".

 

plenty of people were skeptical about ashley and were giving him the transfer window to prove himself, which he did, though sadly in the wrong way.

 

i doubt it was "plenty" but it definitely wasnt all the people who wanted him out after keegan left. scapegoat + kneejerk and all that.

 

because people weren't aware there was such a big problem behind the scenes until the keegan fiasco blew up. they're hardly going to have an opinion on an event before it happens.

 

they soon formed one and stuck with it despite not knowing anything though.

 

as chairman ashley is ultimately responsible for the state of the club so whatever the fine details this reflects very badly on him.

 

as for keegan, wise, llambias, i think people are seeing that keegan has left and assuming he had a pretty good reason for doing this. if the board were interfering in transfers, which looks to be the case given petulant nufc statements like the 'it's a fact' one and keegan's LMA response, then i can see why people would favour Keegan. why would we favour a backroom scouting staff who have forced out a manager?

 

why favour a manager who has quit and, however indirectly, is at least partly responsible for the mess we're in now?

 

because it looks like he was undermined and his job interfered with?

 

i think it is a bit of a stretch to suggest everything was fine and one day keegan walks in and says 'right im off cya'. had that been the case i dont think he'd have much sympathy. people are trying to look a bit deeper and gauge the reasons why he quit, the root cause which wouldve caused this problem sooner or later regardless of the manager, whether it be redknapp, deschamps keegan or curbishley, all of whom have left for similar reasons.

 

it looks that way if you want it to.

 

people are doing that with essentially nothing to work with and are somehow making some rather strong assumptions/conclusions. thats my main issue.

 

 

it's by no means clear, but i wouldnt say there's essentially nothing to work with as concrete events have happened. you can look at things like timing, ashley's track record, some of ashley's other acts as owner, players bought, leaks to press, similar situations elsewhere and official statements from either side to try and build a picture.

[Guest The Libertine]

"developing...the first team squad" could quite feasibly mean bringing transfers in. that's not clear cut. thankfully dennis wise took the time to clarify such matters for us.

 

or "developing the squad" by bringing young players through, getting new players playing well, old players playing well again etc.

 

Thanks for backing up my point that the statement you quoted can be interpreted in a variety of ways and isn't clear cut. how nice of you to argue against your own position.

 

thankfully wise's statement is more clear.

 

which is my entire point. nobody knows what has happened fully other than the few people involved. so why is keegan the hero and ashley and his team the villains?

 

nobody has answered that yet in any respectable way.

 

Because of what Kevin Keegan has done for Newcastle United.

 

If you at least don't acknowledge and understand that then I know I shouldn't really say this but honestly don't know how you can call yourself a fan.

 

Before anyone says it Ashley has done nothing for the club - if he gets his asking price he will have not put a penny in and will have fact profited - why should I believe a man who has done fuck all?

 

 

 

 

"nostalgia > now" apparently. i was as happy as anyone during the entertainers days but they were nearly 13 years ago.

 

as i said a few months ago, almost everyone was happy with ashley before keegan quit and now he's "done fuck all" in his time here. two words, "almost leeds".

 

plenty of people were skeptical about ashley and were giving him the transfer window to prove himself, which he did, though sadly in the wrong way.

 

i doubt it was "plenty" but it definitely wasnt all the people who wanted him out after keegan left. scapegoat + kneejerk and all that.

 

because people weren't aware there was such a big problem behind the scenes until the keegan fiasco blew up. they're hardly going to have an opinion on an event before it happens.

 

they soon formed one and stuck with it despite not knowing anything though.

 

as chairman ashley is ultimately responsible for the state of the club so whatever the fine details this reflects very badly on him.

 

as for keegan, wise, llambias, i think people are seeing that keegan has left and assuming he had a pretty good reason for doing this. if the board were interfering in transfers, which looks to be the case given petulant nufc statements like the 'it's a fact' one and keegan's LMA response, then i can see why people would favour Keegan. why would we favour a backroom scouting staff who have forced out a manager?

 

why favour a manager who has quit and, however indirectly, is at least partly responsible for the mess we're in now?

 

because it looks like he was undermined and his job interfered with?

 

i think it is a bit of a stretch to suggest everything was fine and one day keegan walks in and says 'right im off cya'. had that been the case i dont think he'd have much sympathy. people are trying to look a bit deeper and gauge the reasons why he quit, the root cause which wouldve caused this problem sooner or later regardless of the manager, whether it be redknapp, deschamps keegan or curbishley, all of whom have left for similar reasons.

 

it looks that way if you want it to.

 

people are doing that with essentially nothing to work with and are somehow making some rather strong assumptions/conclusions. thats my main issue.

 

 

it's by no means clear, but i wouldnt say there's essentially nothing to work with as concrete events have happened. you can look at things like timing, ashley's track record, some of ashley's other acts as owner, players bought, leaks to press, similar situations elsewhere and official statements from either side to try and build a picture.

 

and is that picture clear enough to declare keegan the winner by knockout as the vast majority of fans seem to think?

 

no, for me. there's too many things left to find out before any level headed person can realistically follow one side without budging an inch.

[johnnypd]

"developing...the first team squad" could quite feasibly mean bringing transfers in. that's not clear cut. thankfully dennis wise took the time to clarify such matters for us.

 

or "developing the squad" by bringing young players through, getting new players playing well, old players playing well again etc.

 

Thanks for backing up my point that the statement you quoted can be interpreted in a variety of ways and isn't clear cut. how nice of you to argue against your own position.

 

thankfully wise's statement is more clear.

 

which is my entire point. nobody knows what has happened fully other than the few people involved. so why is keegan the hero and ashley and his team the villains?

 

nobody has answered that yet in any respectable way.

 

Because of what Kevin Keegan has done for Newcastle United.

 

If you at least don't acknowledge and understand that then I know I shouldn't really say this but honestly don't know how you can call yourself a fan.

 

Before anyone says it Ashley has done nothing for the club - if he gets his asking price he will have not put a penny in and will have fact profited - why should I believe a man who has done fuck all?

 

 

 

 

"nostalgia > now" apparently. i was as happy as anyone during the entertainers days but they were nearly 13 years ago.

 

as i said a few months ago, almost everyone was happy with ashley before keegan quit and now he's "done fuck all" in his time here. two words, "almost leeds".

 

plenty of people were skeptical about ashley and were giving him the transfer window to prove himself, which he did, though sadly in the wrong way.

 

i doubt it was "plenty" but it definitely wasnt all the people who wanted him out after keegan left. scapegoat + kneejerk and all that.

 

because people weren't aware there was such a big problem behind the scenes until the keegan fiasco blew up. they're hardly going to have an opinion on an event before it happens.

 

they soon formed one and stuck with it despite not knowing anything though.

 

as chairman ashley is ultimately responsible for the state of the club so whatever the fine details this reflects very badly on him.

 

as for keegan, wise, llambias, i think people are seeing that keegan has left and assuming he had a pretty good reason for doing this. if the board were interfering in transfers, which looks to be the case given petulant nufc statements like the 'it's a fact' one and keegan's LMA response, then i can see why people would favour Keegan. why would we favour a backroom scouting staff who have forced out a manager?

 

why favour a manager who has quit and, however indirectly, is at least partly responsible for the mess we're in now?

 

because it looks like he was undermined and his job interfered with?

 

i think it is a bit of a stretch to suggest everything was fine and one day keegan walks in and says 'right im off cya'. had that been the case i dont think he'd have much sympathy. people are trying to look a bit deeper and gauge the reasons why he quit, the root cause which wouldve caused this problem sooner or later regardless of the manager, whether it be redknapp, deschamps keegan or curbishley, all of whom have left for similar reasons.

 

it looks that way if you want it to.

 

people are doing that with essentially nothing to work with and are somehow making some rather strong assumptions/conclusions. thats my main issue.

 

 

it's by no means clear, but i wouldnt say there's essentially nothing to work with as concrete events have happened. you can look at things like timing, ashley's track record, some of ashley's other acts as owner, players bought, leaks to press, similar situations elsewhere and official statements from either side to try and build a picture.

 

and is that picture clear enough to declare keegan the winner by knockout as the vast majority of fans seem to think?

 

no, for me. there's too many things left to find out before any level headed person can realistically follow one side without budging an inch.

 

im not declaring anyone a knockout winner, nor is it even about 'winning'. to tell you the truth im not bothered about who was in the right and who was in the wrong anymore, just want the club to get back on a good footing. and if that's ashley acknowledging his mistakes, getting rid of the troublemakers, stopping systematic interference and backing his manager then id be fine with that.

[Guest The Libertine]

"developing...the first team squad" could quite feasibly mean bringing transfers in. that's not clear cut. thankfully dennis wise took the time to clarify such matters for us.

 

or "developing the squad" by bringing young players through, getting new players playing well, old players playing well again etc.

 

Thanks for backing up my point that the statement you quoted can be interpreted in a variety of ways and isn't clear cut. how nice of you to argue against your own position.

 

thankfully wise's statement is more clear.

 

which is my entire point. nobody knows what has happened fully other than the few people involved. so why is keegan the hero and ashley and his team the villains?

 

nobody has answered that yet in any respectable way.

 

Because of what Kevin Keegan has done for Newcastle United.

 

If you at least don't acknowledge and understand that then I know I shouldn't really say this but honestly don't know how you can call yourself a fan.

 

Before anyone says it Ashley has done nothing for the club - if he gets his asking price he will have not put a penny in and will have fact profited - why should I believe a man who has done fuck all?

 

 

 

 

"nostalgia > now" apparently. i was as happy as anyone during the entertainers days but they were nearly 13 years ago.

 

as i said a few months ago, almost everyone was happy with ashley before keegan quit and now he's "done fuck all" in his time here. two words, "almost leeds".

 

plenty of people were skeptical about ashley and were giving him the transfer window to prove himself, which he did, though sadly in the wrong way.

 

i doubt it was "plenty" but it definitely wasnt all the people who wanted him out after keegan left. scapegoat + kneejerk and all that.

 

because people weren't aware there was such a big problem behind the scenes until the keegan fiasco blew up. they're hardly going to have an opinion on an event before it happens.

 

they soon formed one and stuck with it despite not knowing anything though.

 

as chairman ashley is ultimately responsible for the state of the club so whatever the fine details this reflects very badly on him.

 

as for keegan, wise, llambias, i think people are seeing that keegan has left and assuming he had a pretty good reason for doing this. if the board were interfering in transfers, which looks to be the case given petulant nufc statements like the 'it's a fact' one and keegan's LMA response, then i can see why people would favour Keegan. why would we favour a backroom scouting staff who have forced out a manager?

 

why favour a manager who has quit and, however indirectly, is at least partly responsible for the mess we're in now?

 

because it looks like he was undermined and his job interfered with?

 

i think it is a bit of a stretch to suggest everything was fine and one day keegan walks in and says 'right im off cya'. had that been the case i dont think he'd have much sympathy. people are trying to look a bit deeper and gauge the reasons why he quit, the root cause which wouldve caused this problem sooner or later regardless of the manager, whether it be redknapp, deschamps keegan or curbishley, all of whom have left for similar reasons.

 

it looks that way if you want it to.

 

people are doing that with essentially nothing to work with and are somehow making some rather strong assumptions/conclusions. thats my main issue.

 

 

it's by no means clear, but i wouldnt say there's essentially nothing to work with as concrete events have happened. you can look at things like timing, ashley's track record, some of ashley's other acts as owner, players bought, leaks to press, similar situations elsewhere and official statements from either side to try and build a picture.

 

and is that picture clear enough to declare keegan the winner by knockout as the vast majority of fans seem to think?

 

no, for me. there's too many things left to find out before any level headed person can realistically follow one side without budging an inch.

 

im not declaring anyone a knockout winner, nor is it even about 'winning'. to tell you the truth im not bothered about who was in the right and who was in the wrong anymore, just want the club to get back on a good footing. and if that's ashley acknowledging his mistakes, getting rid of the troublemakers, stopping systematic interference and backing his manager then id be fine with that.

 

most people want keegan to "win". sad but true.

 

and again, just see what you want to see 

[Tooj]

"developing...the first team squad" could quite feasibly mean bringing transfers in. that's not clear cut. thankfully dennis wise took the time to clarify such matters for us.

 

or "developing the squad" by bringing young players through, getting new players playing well, old players playing well again etc.

 

Thanks for backing up my point that the statement you quoted can be interpreted in a variety of ways and isn't clear cut. how nice of you to argue against your own position.

 

thankfully wise's statement is more clear.

 

which is my entire point. nobody knows what has happened fully other than the few people involved. so why is keegan the hero and ashley and his team the villains?

 

nobody has answered that yet in any respectable way.

 

Because of what Kevin Keegan has done for Newcastle United.

 

If you at least don't acknowledge and understand that then I know I shouldn't really say this but honestly don't know how you can call yourself a fan.

 

Before anyone says it Ashley has done nothing for the club - if he gets his asking price he will have not put a penny in and will have fact profited - why should I believe a man who has done fuck all?

 

 

 

 

"nostalgia > now" apparently. i was as happy as anyone during the entertainers days but they were nearly 13 years ago.

 

as i said a few months ago, almost everyone was happy with ashley before keegan quit and now he's "done fuck all" in his time here. two words, "almost leeds".

 

plenty of people were skeptical about ashley and were giving him the transfer window to prove himself, which he did, though sadly in the wrong way.

 

i doubt it was "plenty" but it definitely wasnt all the people who wanted him out after keegan left. scapegoat + kneejerk and all that.

 

because people weren't aware there was such a big problem behind the scenes until the keegan fiasco blew up. they're hardly going to have an opinion on an event before it happens.

 

they soon formed one and stuck with it despite not knowing anything though.

 

as chairman ashley is ultimately responsible for the state of the club so whatever the fine details this reflects very badly on him.

 

as for keegan, wise, llambias, i think people are seeing that keegan has left and assuming he had a pretty good reason for doing this. if the board were interfering in transfers, which looks to be the case given petulant nufc statements like the 'it's a fact' one and keegan's LMA response, then i can see why people would favour Keegan. why would we favour a backroom scouting staff who have forced out a manager?

 

why favour a manager who has quit and, however indirectly, is at least partly responsible for the mess we're in now?

 

because it looks like he was undermined and his job interfered with?

 

i think it is a bit of a stretch to suggest everything was fine and one day keegan walks in and says 'right im off cya'. had that been the case i dont think he'd have much sympathy. people are trying to look a bit deeper and gauge the reasons why he quit, the root cause which wouldve caused this problem sooner or later regardless of the manager, whether it be redknapp, deschamps keegan or curbishley, all of whom have left for similar reasons.

 

it looks that way if you want it to.

 

people are doing that with essentially nothing to work with and are somehow making some rather strong assumptions/conclusions. thats my main issue.

 

 

it's by no means clear, but i wouldnt say there's essentially nothing to work with as concrete events have happened. you can look at things like timing, ashley's track record, some of ashley's other acts as owner, players bought, leaks to press, similar situations elsewhere and official statements from either side to try and build a picture.

 

and is that picture clear enough to declare keegan the winner by knockout as the vast majority of fans seem to think?

 

no, for me. there's too many things left to find out before any level headed person can realistically follow one side without budging an inch.

 

im not declaring anyone a knockout winner, nor is it even about 'winning'. to tell you the truth im not bothered about who was in the right and who was in the wrong anymore, just want the club to get back on a good footing. and if that's ashley acknowledging his mistakes, getting rid of the troublemakers, stopping systematic interference and backing his manager then id be fine with that.

 

most people want keegan to "win". sad but true.

 

and again, just see what you want to see 

 

I want what is best for the club. Sadly that's not Mike Ashley for me.

[Robster]

 

most people want keegan to "win". sad but true.

 

 

And purely and simply is because of what he did first time around. Whether realistic or not, but I would guess most fans hoped that within 3/4 years, we would be somewhere towards reproducing that kind of football/atmosphere.

A "Win" for KK keeps those hopes and that dream alive. The reaction is possibly based on the realisation that we are going to be bloody lucky to get a manager who is going to get anywhere near those times (and SBR's)

 

 

[ChezGiven]

The debate about who said what and when they said it sort of ignores what is the most obvious part of the story, that the relationship between Keegan and Wise / Directors broke down. The key sticking point is that Wise was responsible for 'player recruitment' and Keegan 'first team affairs'. Therefore, there was a lack of clarity in the structure as recruitment covers both fringe and first team players, the latter being Keegan's. The idea works i suppose if the recruitment team propose 3/4 players for needed positions on the pitch and the manager picks from the list.

 

The problem is this going to cause a clash at some point. If Keegan didnt know the players proposed to him, its not going to be long before he gets fucked off by that situation and the relationship fucks up. I think by the summer it was already falling apart. By the end of August iirc, there was hardly any rumours or press around which players we were going for in the last two weeks and certainly none on Xisco or Gonzalez. I think (just speculating) these latter two were brought in desperation as they had missed out on other targets that werent agreed upon properly within. Warnock maybe? I dont know obviously.

 

If you are meant to cooperate as a team to perform a job, if the team breaks down and cant work together, the job only gets done if someone treads on someone else toes. The initial structure goes out the window. If Xisco and Gonzalez were desperation / squad fillers and brought in by Wise without Keegan's knowledge this is surely a sign of a fucked working relationship. They did not agree with Keegan, nor he with them on who they should sign. At the same time, think its fairly common knowledge that Keegan hated Wise by the end of it all.

 

What led to the breakdown of the relationship? Why could they not rationally discuss available finance, player willingness, price and the needs of the team and agree? Thats the real story.

[Mick]

 

 

I know he didn't put £20m a year into the pot above club income.

 

I know he hasn't cleared all the debts (outstanding transfers remain).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You're right about the £20 million, the greedy bastard only coughed up £240 million in year one and by week 6 probably hadn't put anything in for year 2.

[Mick]

A Keegan quote.

 

http://notw.typepad.com/sport/2008/01/keegan-can-save.html

 

 

"I didn't have a brochure this time. It came like a whirlwind — it is like one of those lastminute.com holidays!

 

"There was no brochure — I just came. The exciting thing for me is that it is all here and it is a question of can we just package it and pull it all together?

 

[johnnypd]

The debate about who said what and when they said it sort of ignores what is the most obvious part of the story, that the relationship between Keegan and Wise / Directors broke down. The key sticking point is that Wise was responsible for 'player recruitment' and Keegan 'first team affairs'. Therefore, there was a lack of clarity in the structure as recruitment covers both fringe and first team players, the latter being Keegan's. The idea works i suppose if the recruitment team propose 3/4 players for needed positions on the pitch and the manager picks from the list.

 

The problem is this going to cause a clash at some point. If Keegan didnt know the players proposed to him, its not going to be long before he gets fucked off by that situation and the relationship fucks up. I think by the summer it was already falling apart. By the end of August iirc, there was hardly any rumours or press around which players we were going for in the last two weeks and certainly none on Xisco or Gonzalez. I think (just speculating) these latter two were brought in desperation as they had missed out on other targets that werent agreed upon properly within. Warnock maybe? I dont know obviously.

 

If you are meant to cooperate as a team to perform a job, if the team breaks down and cant work together, the job only gets done if someone treads on someone else toes. The initial structure goes out the window. If Xisco and Gonzalez were desperation / squad fillers and brought in by Wise without Keegan's knowledge this is surely a sign of a fucked working relationship. They did not agree with Keegan, nor he with them on who they should sign. At the same time, think its fairly common knowledge that Keegan hated Wise by the end of it all.

 

What led to the breakdown of the relationship? Why could they not rationally discuss available finance, player willingness, price and the needs of the team and agree? Thats the real story.

 

in hindsight it does look like a conflict was inevitable and that wouldve happened regardless of whether Keegan or Redknapp was the manager, or whether Wise or Comolli was the DoF. what is important isnt so much their personalities but the fact that the problem is systematic. it was only made worse by Ashley's refusal to put any funds into transfers which caused what looks like competition over limited resources.

 

obviously wise being a bit of a cunt and keegan being confrontational just caused it to deteriorate faster than it may have, but thats just another dynamic in the mix and not a root cause in and of itself, imo. another person whose personality may have contributed to the farce was Llambias, he was out of his depth and a friend of ashley so simply didnt have the stature or objectivity to successfully mediate between Wise and Keegan. Someone like Mort may have been more successful but even then, i think he'd just be delaying the inevitable,which is what he did in chairing talks between the parties after the chelsea match. such break downs in working relationships are common in footie when responsibilities arent clearly demarcated, most usually when people are appointed to meddle in what is usually accepted to be the manager's job.

[johnnypd]

"developing...the first team squad" could quite feasibly mean bringing transfers in. that's not clear cut. thankfully dennis wise took the time to clarify such matters for us.

 

or "developing the squad" by bringing young players through, getting new players playing well, old players playing well again etc.

 

Thanks for backing up my point that the statement you quoted can be interpreted in a variety of ways and isn't clear cut. how nice of you to argue against your own position.

 

thankfully wise's statement is more clear.

 

which is my entire point. nobody knows what has happened fully other than the few people involved. so why is keegan the hero and ashley and his team the villains?

 

nobody has answered that yet in any respectable way.

 

Because of what Kevin Keegan has done for Newcastle United.

 

If you at least don't acknowledge and understand that then I know I shouldn't really say this but honestly don't know how you can call yourself a fan.

 

Before anyone says it Ashley has done nothing for the club - if he gets his asking price he will have not put a penny in and will have fact profited - why should I believe a man who has done fuck all?

 

 

 

 

"nostalgia > now" apparently. i was as happy as anyone during the entertainers days but they were nearly 13 years ago.

 

as i said a few months ago, almost everyone was happy with ashley before keegan quit and now he's "done fuck all" in his time here. two words, "almost leeds".

 

plenty of people were skeptical about ashley and were giving him the transfer window to prove himself, which he did, though sadly in the wrong way.

 

i doubt it was "plenty" but it definitely wasnt all the people who wanted him out after keegan left. scapegoat + kneejerk and all that.

 

because people weren't aware there was such a big problem behind the scenes until the keegan fiasco blew up. they're hardly going to have an opinion on an event before it happens.

 

they soon formed one and stuck with it despite not knowing anything though.

 

as chairman ashley is ultimately responsible for the state of the club so whatever the fine details this reflects very badly on him.

 

as for keegan, wise, llambias, i think people are seeing that keegan has left and assuming he had a pretty good reason for doing this. if the board were interfering in transfers, which looks to be the case given petulant nufc statements like the 'it's a fact' one and keegan's LMA response, then i can see why people would favour Keegan. why would we favour a backroom scouting staff who have forced out a manager?

 

why favour a manager who has quit and, however indirectly, is at least partly responsible for the mess we're in now?

 

because it looks like he was undermined and his job interfered with?

 

i think it is a bit of a stretch to suggest everything was fine and one day keegan walks in and says 'right im off cya'. had that been the case i dont think he'd have much sympathy. people are trying to look a bit deeper and gauge the reasons why he quit, the root cause which wouldve caused this problem sooner or later regardless of the manager, whether it be redknapp, deschamps keegan or curbishley, all of whom have left for similar reasons.

 

it looks that way if you want it to.

 

people are doing that with essentially nothing to work with and are somehow making some rather strong assumptions/conclusions. thats my main issue.

 

 

it's by no means clear, but i wouldnt say there's essentially nothing to work with as concrete events have happened. you can look at things like timing, ashley's track record, some of ashley's other acts as owner, players bought, leaks to press, similar situations elsewhere and official statements from either side to try and build a picture.

 

and is that picture clear enough to declare keegan the winner by knockout as the vast majority of fans seem to think?

 

no, for me. there's too many things left to find out before any level headed person can realistically follow one side without budging an inch.

 

im not declaring anyone a knockout winner, nor is it even about 'winning'. to tell you the truth im not bothered about who was in the right and who was in the wrong anymore, just want the club to get back on a good footing. and if that's ashley acknowledging his mistakes, getting rid of the troublemakers, stopping systematic interference and backing his manager then id be fine with that.

 

most people want keegan to "win". sad but true.

 

and again, just see what you want to see 

 

not sure what that's supposed to mean. as i said, i don't care about who our owner is as an individual just as long as they run the club in a decent manner, it could be sean from denton burn or sheikh kebab from dubai. If someone else comes in and amends the errors that have been made then great, likewise, if it is Ashley himself who comes out and changes things then that will do me too. i dont have a grudge against him, just against how he's ran the club.

[fredbob]

 

can't see how any of them can be wrong.

 

had keegan not felt his situation to be untenable he'd still be here, so point one is obviously true Big assumption that Keegan is innocent in all this.

 

he said the club didnt owe a penny to anyone, then said we still had debts. he said keegan was in charge, then a club statement said otherwise. so it looks like ashley, or at least the board on his behalf, have lied to us. All i know is that £100m has been poured into the club, that'll do for me, however i cant answer this straight so count that one on your chalk board although when Mort said he paid this did he not say something specifically about 3rd parties like banks and interest? the other debt he mentioned may of been transfer debt which he may of considered normal. Maybe not?

 

and if theyve lied, then that is a flaw in communication, which shows point three to be true. and regardless, communication is about perception, if a large portion of fans feel they havent been communicated with properly, then they havent. Most people were happy upto the 1st of Sept, what does that say to you? It saysto me that they want to stick there noses in now that it doesnt suit them, remeber they releasedthat ridiculous statment and no one beleived it or accepted it so whats the point, they obviously felt that they were getting the raw end of the stick and felt they had to act. Futile.

 

the failure to back the manager to sufficient levels is undeniable, it's not even a point of debate. Do we even know why? The fact that the club wasnt rowing in the same direction should give you a clue as to why much money wasnt spent. I choose to believe that money wasnt spent becasue Wise didnt want to undermine Keegan but when it became too close to the end he felt he had to act and undermined Keegan on the VERY last day. It just doesnt make sense that the club will start with a £16m bid for Modric then choose not to back him at all. Then to undermine him only on the last day.

 

Fredbob, pick out each of those points as to what johnny has responded to mine with and give me your own opinion on each and every one of those.

 

I dont know what to say tooj, this really isnt a hard point, i cant make this clearer than i already have, both parties have contradicted themselves on many occassions yet only one has a pressure group and dyslexic posters aimed in his direction. I still havent heard a reason why these actions are justified.

 

I dont understand how anyone has got anywhere near enough evidence in order to act upon the circumstances. The mere fact that you cant tell me if this was in fact all Keegans fault becasue you dont know whats going on should give you a clue about the situation.

 

Imagine convicting someone upon the same level of evidence that we see in this stuation.

 

The thing is, is that people wont ask themselves why Wise thought it on only on the last day of the season that he needed to undermine Keegan. What about Skeljbred, what about Gomis, what about Zayatte, i imagine there were many more? Surely he could of and would of undermined him from the start if Keegan had no say whatsoever? The point is though, that even though i have these doubts, i like many dont have anti keegan pressure groups or take barbs at Keegan ever minute becqasue most realise that by taking these action we're holding the club at ransom,  imagine if Ashley was allowed to get on with things, im not sure we;d be in the situation we are in now, who fault is that, well in my eyes, its fans like you and NUSC who still to this day have no means to your actions.

[fredbob]

The debate about who said what and when they said it sort of ignores what is the most obvious part of the story, that the relationship between Keegan and Wise / Directors broke down. The key sticking point is that Wise was responsible for 'player recruitment' and Keegan 'first team affairs'. Therefore, there was a lack of clarity in the structure as recruitment covers both fringe and first team players, the latter being Keegan's. The idea works i suppose if the recruitment team propose 3/4 players for needed positions on the pitch and the manager picks from the list.

 

The problem is this going to cause a clash at some point. If Keegan didnt know the players proposed to him, its not going to be long before he gets f***ed off by that situation and the relationship f***s up. I think by the summer it was already falling apart. By the end of August iirc, there was hardly any rumours or press around which players we were going for in the last two weeks and certainly none on Xisco or Gonzalez. I think (just speculating) these latter two were brought in desperation as they had missed out on other targets that werent agreed upon properly within. Warnock maybe? I dont know obviously.

 

If you are meant to cooperate as a team to perform a job, if the team breaks down and cant work together, the job only gets done if someone treads on someone else toes. The initial structure goes out the window. If Xisco and Gonzalez were desperation / squad fillers and brought in by Wise without Keegan's knowledge this is surely a sign of a f***ed working relationship. They did not agree with Keegan, nor he with them on who they should sign. At the same time, think its fairly common knowledge that Keegan hated Wise by the end of it all.

 

What led to the breakdown of the relationship? Why could they not rationally discuss available finance, player willingness, price and the needs of the team and agree? Thats the real story.

 

Great post.

[BottledDog]

Still feel that maybe things could have worked out with Ashley. An owner who unlike the previous lot has taken no money out of the club, who's player recruitment team once installed have successfully brought in a raft of players that actually look like retaining or quite possibly increasing in value, got us on a secure finacial footing, whipped the academy into shape, and retrespectively, who's first choice of manager (which he was widely derided for on here) is actually doing pretty well at Tottenham now.

 

There were positives, but, bang, yet again things go tits up for us. Keegan walks, presumably because he felt the club did not do all they could to bring in his first choices which undermined his position and, in his eyes, the squad, Ashley fails to talk him around or understand the depth of feeling enough to communicate properly to the supporters (even if there were certain conditions layed down by the lawyers), goes into hiding, and we're stuck in this fucking limbo.

 

Blame? I loved Keegan as manager, never saw him as long term, but was very dissapointed in Ashleys chairman that that he felt the club were not backing him. Nevertheless the Ashley bashing at that critical time, especially the threats from respected fanzines was out of order. I still don't understand why things could have not been worked out, and Keegans choice to walk out at that time helped nobody and and certainly not the club. The structure failed, yes, but I didn't see it as clear cut, fuck knows what happened, and for that reason I'm not closing the door to anyone.

 

We can't go back in time, but just as I would have been happy for Keegan to walk back in at the time, if Ashley can get things back on track then he will have my full support.

 

If it's too late for that then fingers crossed the next lot have deep pockets, a lot of luck, and seriously thick skin.

[fredbob]

Still feel that maybe things could have worked out with Ashley. An owner who unlike the previous lot has taken no money out of the club, who's player recruitment team once installed have successfully brought in a raft of players that actually look like retaining or quite possibly increasing in value, got us on a secure finacial footing, whipped the academy into shape, and retrespectively, who's first choice of manager (which he was widely derided for on here) is actually doing pretty well at Tottenham now.

 

There were positives, but, bang, yet again things go tits up for us. Keegan walks, presumably because he felt the club did not do all they could to bring in his first choices which undermined his position and, in his eyes, the squad, Ashley fails to talk him around or understand the depth of feeling enough to communicate properly to the supporters (even if there were certain conditions layed down by the lawyers), goes into hiding, and we're stuck in this f***ing limbo.

 

Blame? I loved Keegan as manager, never saw him as long term, but was very dissapointed in Ashleys chairman that that he felt the club were not backing him. Nevertheless the Ashley bashing at that critical time, especially the threats from respected fanzines was out of order. I still don't understand why things could have not been worked out, and Keegans choice to walk out at that time helped nobody and and certainly not the club. The structure failed, yes, but I didn't see it as clear cut, f*** knows what happened, and for that reason I'm not closing the door to anyone.

 

We can't go back in time, but just as I would have been happy for Keegan to walk back in at the time, if Ashley can get things back on track then he will have my full support.

 

If it's too late for that then fingers crossed the next lot have deep pockets, a lot of luck, and seriously thick skin.

 

Great post.

[BottledDog]

Still feel that maybe things could have worked out with Ashley. An owner who unlike the previous lot has taken no money out of the club, who's player recruitment team once installed have successfully brought in a raft of players that actually look like retaining or quite possibly increasing in value, got us on a secure finacial footing, whipped the academy into shape, and retrespectively, who's first choice of manager (which he was widely derided for on here) is actually doing pretty well at Tottenham now.

 

There were positives, but, bang, yet again things go tits up for us. Keegan walks, presumably because he felt the club did not do all they could to bring in his first choices which undermined his position and, in his eyes, the squad, Ashley fails to talk him around or understand the depth of feeling enough to communicate properly to the supporters (even if there were certain conditions layed down by the lawyers), goes into hiding, and we're stuck in this f***ing limbo.

 

Blame? I loved Keegan as manager, never saw him as long term, but was very dissapointed in Ashleys chairman that that he felt the club were not backing him. Nevertheless the Ashley bashing at that critical time, especially the threats from respected fanzines was out of order. I still don't understand why things could have not been worked out, and Keegans choice to walk out at that time helped nobody and and certainly not the club. The structure failed, yes, but I didn't see it as clear cut, f*** knows what happened, and for that reason I'm not closing the door to anyone.

 

We can't go back in time, but just as I would have been happy for Keegan to walk back in at the time, if Ashley can get things back on track then he will have my full support.

 

If it's too late for that then fingers crossed the next lot have deep pockets, a lot of luck, and seriously thick skin.

 

Good post.

 

Ta. Agree with a lot of what you say in terms of negativity in whatever form not helping the club.

 

Chez getting a "Great post" 5 minutes earlier puts a bit of a dampener on it though.

[UV]

The thing is, is that people wont ask themselves why Wise thought it on only on the last day of the season that he needed to undermine Keegan. What about Skeljbred, what about Gomis, what about Zayatte, i imagine there were many more? Surely he could of and would of undermined him from the start if Keegan had no say whatsoever? The point is though, that even though i have these doubts, i like many dont have anti keegan pressure groups or take barbs at Keegan ever minute becqasue most realise that by taking these action we're holding the club at ransom,  imagine if Ashley was allowed to get on with things, im not sure we;d be in the situation we are in now, who fault is that, well in my eyes, its fans like you and NUSC who still to this day have no means to your actions.

 

How exactly is anyone "holding the club at ransom" (other than Ashley himself that is) and in what way is Ashley not being "allowed to get on with things"? Last time I checked the world was still turning, a manager was managing, the players were playing, the supporters were supporting the team. No-one other than Ashley is stopping anything or has the power to do anything about the position the club is in. If we're going to talk about quitters...

 

 

Arguing contract semantics and debating about who was right or wrong is completely futile anyway. It's most likely everything will be settled out of court with a non-disclosure clause. Even if it did go to court, there'd be 2 sides to the story. People who trust Keegan will believe what he says, and those who have a misguided faith in Ashley will believe what the club comes out with. No-one's opinion is going to be changed by anything said from this point on unless one party comes out and says they were fully to blame, which isn't going to happen.

 

The squad's weak, we have a manager on a month to month contract, we're in the relegation zone, and no-one wants to buy the club at Ashley's price. Have a guess which of Keegan or Ashley can do anything about that.

[NJS]

Can anyone point at any statement made by Ashley et al which was actually true?

 

 

Can anyone point at any statement made by Keegan which was actually true?

 

Works both ways, and I still think both are as much at fault as each other.

 

"A manager should not have players forced upon him" is a good start.

 

I also remember no blatant lies - even the Milner sale could be taken as true in the context of the money being promised.

 

 

 

Keegan said: "He is the last player that Newcastle United want to sell, and I'm talking about the owner and myself, James Milner won't be leaving here, I'm sure of that."

 

Lies

 

If every manager who "lies" like that is called to book none would be left. Absolutely pathetic.

 

 

1. You asked for a Keegan "lie"

2. I gave you one

3. You said "Oh that one doesn't count"

 

 

Does it compare with Ashley's diatribe of bullshit statement?

 

 

 

1. You asked for a Keegan "lie"

2. I gave you one

3. You said "Oh that one doesn't count"

4. You said yeah but Ashley's lies were worse.

 

 

Incidentally, what has Ashley personally lied about?

 

 

 

The £20m

 

Being a football fan yet having no team (who starts going at 23 to the world cup of all things)

 

Buying the club to enjoy himself when he bought it to make profit.

 

Kevin Keegan having final say on transfers

 

 

 

 

 

£20m -we'll never know now

 

Being a football fan yet having no team (who starts going at 23 to the world cup of all things) - what??!!

 

Buying the club to enjoy himself when he bought it to make profit. - He seemed to be enjoying humself til Keegan walked

 

Kevin Keegan having final say on transfers - he said this where?

 

 

He said the 20m was his long term plan but he hadn't done it in two years and 3 windows - how many more years would a zero investment happened before you realised it was a lie?

 

In his statement when he announced the sale he claimed he was a football fan but strangely has never revelaed who he supports - do you know anyone like that? He mentioned being present for the hand of god game as if it was his first game - a bit strange - yes or no?

 

He said Keegan had final say in his club magazine interview.