Newcastle United Supporters Club

[Guest The Libertine]

"developing...the first team squad" could quite feasibly mean bringing transfers in. that's not clear cut. thankfully dennis wise took the time to clarify such matters for us.

 

or "developing the squad" by bringing young players through, getting new players playing well, old players playing well again etc.

[midds]

"On Monday, Keegan said he was "reluctant to tell all I know because I really do not know everything" about Wise's role but insisted he was "very happy" with the situation.

 

However, Keegan's comments seem to contradict the opinion he gave to BBC One's Inside Sport last October, when he said he felt that kind of structure is unworkable.

 

When Keegan was asked about reports linking him with a return to Newcastle as director of football under then-manager Sam Allardyce, he said: "It's absolutely impossible to give Sam a job at Newcastle and then go and fetch someone who is going to be some sort of threat, it doesn't work.

 

"Sam would be a fool to let it happen and the guy who goes in would be a fool to accept it. "The chairman, who is not a fool, would be a fool to go and do it, too. It doesn't work."

 

 

see sig for a few more 

 

Keegan didnt know everything about Wise's role but how do we know Kevin wasnt told "that whatever Dennis does, he is completely under your control and he isnt in any way a threat to you" or perhaps "Dennis role doesnt infringe on the 1st team at all" ?

If that was the case he would have no need to be anything other than happy and he certainly wouldnt be contradicting the Allardyce comparison.

Your as guilty of making assumptions as anyone else.

 

"Dennis will assist the Board on football-related matters, including the development of the Club's Academy and player recruitment. He will report to the Chairman. Tony and Jeff will also assist in player recruitment.

 

The arrival of these three new recruits follows on from the recent appointment of Kevin Keegan as manager. Kevin will be responsible for all matters related to the First Team."

 

"With Kevin able to devote his efforts to developing and running the first team squad, Dennis, Tony and Jeff will each help us to secure success for Newcastle United Football Club at all levels and for the long-term"

 

http://www.nufc.premiumtv.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10278~1227633,00.html

 

pretty clear imo.

 

How do first team transfers not relate to the first team then?  Sorry but to me those comments are pretty clearly saying that Keegan makes all final decisions relating to the first team which would include transfers and that Wise merely helps to finalise the deals.  Wise himself said something similar around the same time.

 

Selective reading. You can't get much clearer than "Dennis Wise will assist the board on football-related matters, including the development of the Club's Academy and player recruitment.

 

Did anyone claim that he had nothing to do with it like?

 

No, but it's selective interpretation. Nowhere in that statement does it say, "Keegan will be in charge of signing players", whereas it does say that's what Wise's role was.

 

No it doesn't, if we're going to get into pedantry. It says Wise will 'assist the board' and that Keegan will be in charge of all matters relating to the first team.

 

I think signing first team players comes into that category. Call me crazy.

 

"With Kevin able to devote his efforts to developing and running the first team squad, Dennis, Tony and Jeff will each help us to secure success for Newcastle United Football Club at all levels and for the long-term"

 

ie. keegan manages the team only.

 

"devote" - 1. To give or apply (one's time, attention, or self) entirely to a particular activity, pursuit, cause, or person.

 

Fuck me. What sort of dense interpretation is that?

 

see what you want to see. i see no mention of "keegan" and "transfers", just about him running the squad.

 

Yeah but does 'developing the first team' mean improving the current squad technically, or improving the squad by binning the shite and replacing them with better?

 

It's not clear at all either way.

[Teasy]

 

see what you want to see. i see no mention of "keegan" and "transfers", just about him running the squad.

 

What about Wise's own words on the matter, you're yet to comment on them..

[Wullie]

"developing...the first team squad" could quite feasibly mean bringing transfers in. that's not clear cut. thankfully dennis wise took the time to clarify such matters for us.

 

or "developing the squad" by bringing young players through, getting new players playing well, old players playing well again etc.

 

But as has been pointed out already, Dennis cleared it up for us leaving no room for silly interpretations like that one.

[Guest The Libertine]

Still can't fathom how anyone can read all of these statements/quotes and categorically say either party is totally in the right. They've both contradicted each other and themselves throughout this whole sorry mess. The statements are very ambiguous and are open to loads of different interpretations which is what is causing the confusion.

 

I just want to know exactly what happened.

 

thats exactly right. it just annoys me how blind people are willing to be about keegans part in this. ashley is the devil and keegan is god, no matter what.

 

And vice versa in your case. Your just the same

 

ive said all long that both are probably equally to blame. im just not blindly following keegan so im in the minority.

[Baggio]

 

Yet you back the man who walked away over the club.

 

You think that Mike Ashley/Dennis Wise ect ARE the club?   

 

They are the ones currently representing the club so yes.

 

Put it this way, if Keegan was to push for unfair dismissal would he be doing it against the individuals or the club?

[Guest The Libertine]

 

see what you want to see. i see no mention of "keegan" and "transfers", just about him running the squad.

 

What about Wise's own words on the matter, you're yet to comment on them..

 

Reply #1154 on: Today at 09:32:32 PM - read that.

[johnnypd]

"developing...the first team squad" could quite feasibly mean bringing transfers in. that's not clear cut. thankfully dennis wise took the time to clarify such matters for us.

 

or "developing the squad" by bringing young players through, getting new players playing well, old players playing well again etc.

 

Thanks for backing up my point that the statement you quoted can be interpreted in a variety of ways and isn't clear cut. how nice of you to argue against your own position.

 

thankfully wise's statement is more clear.

[NJS]

Can anyone point at any statement made by Ashley et al which was actually true?

 

 

[Dave]

Can anyone point at any statement made by Ashley et al which was actually true?

 

 

 

Nobody knows. Which is your point I'm sure.

[Optimistic Nut]

Can anyone point at any statement made by Ashley et al which was actually true?

 

 

Can anyone point at any statement made by Keegan which was actually true?

 

Works both ways, and I still think both are as much at fault as each other.

[Guest The Libertine]

"developing...the first team squad" could quite feasibly mean bringing transfers in. that's not clear cut. thankfully dennis wise took the time to clarify such matters for us.

 

or "developing the squad" by bringing young players through, getting new players playing well, old players playing well again etc.

 

Thanks for backing up my point that the statement you quoted can be interpreted in a variety of ways and isn't clear cut. how nice of you to argue against your own position.

 

thankfully wise's statement is more clear.

 

which is my entire point. nobody knows what has happened fully other than the few people involved. so why is keegan the hero and ashley and his team the villains?

 

nobody has answered that yet in any respectable way.

[Liam Liam Liam O]

Can anyone point at any statement made by Ashley et al which was actually true?

 

 

Can anyone point at any statement made by Keegan which was actually true?

 

Works both ways, and I still think both are as much at fault as each other.

 

http://www.friendsoftheferry.org/arrow%20circles.gif

 

Not aimed at you btw

[NJS]

Can anyone point at any statement made by Ashley et al which was actually true?

 

 

 

Nobody knows. Which is your point I'm sure.

 

I know he didn't put £20m a year into the pot above club income.

 

I know he hasn't cleared all the debts (outstanding transfers remain).

 

 

 

 

 

 

[NJS]

Can anyone point at any statement made by Ashley et al which was actually true?

 

 

Can anyone point at any statement made by Keegan which was actually true?

 

Works both ways, and I still think both are as much at fault as each other.

 

"A manager should not have players forced upon him" is a good start.

 

I also remember no blatant lies - even the Milner sale could be taken as true in the context of the money being promised.

 

 

[Robster]

Can anyone point at any statement made by Ashley et al which was actually true?

 

 

Can anyone point at any statement made by Keegan which was actually true?

 

Works both ways, and I still think both are as much at fault as each other.

 

http://www.friendsoftheferry.org/arrow%20circles.gif

 

Not aimed at you btw

Its cos there nowt else to talk about

[Dave]

I don't know who is most at fault, and perhaps never will. I'm sure there is blame to be apportioned on both sides.

 

Given that I don't know who is at fault and for what, I find myself naturally backing a man who has done more for this football club than almost any other - Kevin Keegan.

 

Mike Ashley and his merry men have done pretty much fuck all for the club barring being in charge throughout this entire pathetic and embarrassing debacle.

 

That's why with a lack of facts I tend to back Keegan.

[Liam Liam Liam O]

Can anyone point at any statement made by Ashley et al which was actually true?

 

 

Can anyone point at any statement made by Keegan which was actually true?

 

Works both ways, and I still think both are as much at fault as each other.

 

"A manager should not have players forced upon him" is a good start.

 

I also remember no blatant lies - even the Milner sale could be taken as true in the context of the money being promised.

 

 

 

Keegan said: "He is the last player that Newcastle United want to sell, and I'm talking about the owner and myself, James Milner won't be leaving here, I'm sure of that."

 

Lies

[NJS]

"developing...the first team squad" could quite feasibly mean bringing transfers in. that's not clear cut. thankfully dennis wise took the time to clarify such matters for us.

 

or "developing the squad" by bringing young players through, getting new players playing well, old players playing well again etc.

 

Thanks for backing up my point that the statement you quoted can be interpreted in a variety of ways and isn't clear cut. how nice of you to argue against your own position.

 

thankfully wise's statement is more clear.

 

which is my entire point. nobody knows what has happened fully other than the few people involved. so why is keegan the hero and ashley and his team the villains?

 

nobody has answered that yet in any respectable way.

 

Because of what Kevin Keegan has done for Newcastle United.

 

If you at least don't acknowledge and understand that then I know I shouldn't really say this but honestly don't know how you can call yourself a fan.

 

Before anyone says it Ashley has done nothing for the club - if he gets his asking price he will have not put a penny in and will have fact profited - why should I believe a man who has done fuck all?

 

 

 

[Dave]

Keegan said: "He is the last player that Newcastle United want to sell, and I'm talking about the owner and myself, James Milner won't be leaving here, I'm sure of that."

 

Lies

 

[Optimistic Nut]

Also, a Keegan statement just after we'd sold Milner when he said something along the lines of "everybody has a price", has been twisted into "Ashley has put every player up for sale".

[NJS]

Can anyone point at any statement made by Ashley et al which was actually true?

 

 

Can anyone point at any statement made by Keegan which was actually true?

 

Works both ways, and I still think both are as much at fault as each other.

 

"A manager should not have players forced upon him" is a good start.

 

I also remember no blatant lies - even the Milner sale could be taken as true in the context of the money being promised.

 

 

 

Keegan said: "He is the last player that Newcastle United want to sell, and I'm talking about the owner and myself, James Milner won't be leaving here, I'm sure of that."

 

Lies

 

If every manager who "lies" like that is called to book none would be left. Absolutely pathetic.

 

 

 

[Baggio]

Can anyone point at any statement made by Ashley et al which was actually true?

 

 

 

Nobody knows. Which is your point I'm sure.

 

I know he didn't put £20m a year into the pot above club income.

 

I know he hasn't cleared all the debts (outstanding transfers remain).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Didn't keith Harris say the club is debt free?

[midds]

The Milner comments are a red herring though imo.

 

They could be construed as Keegan forcing Villa to bid more to get their man. The dynamics of the situation changed totally the second he went public with his transfer request. The club couldn't reasonably keep an unhappy player and him throwing his request in guaranteed himself a move - which then made Keegan out to be a liar. 

[Liam Liam Liam O]

"developing...the first team squad" could quite feasibly mean bringing transfers in. that's not clear cut. thankfully dennis wise took the time to clarify such matters for us.

 

or "developing the squad" by bringing young players through, getting new players playing well, old players playing well again etc.

 

Thanks for backing up my point that the statement you quoted can be interpreted in a variety of ways and isn't clear cut. how nice of you to argue against your own position.

 

thankfully wise's statement is more clear.

 

which is my entire point. nobody knows what has happened fully other than the few people involved. so why is keegan the hero and ashley and his team the villains?

 

nobody has answered that yet in any respectable way.

 

Because of what Kevin Keegan has done for Newcastle United.

 

If you at least don't acknowledge and understand that then I know I shouldn't really say this but honestly don't know how you can call yourself a fan.

 

Before anyone says it Ashley has done nothing for the club - if he gets his asking price he will have not put a penny in and will have fact profited - why should I believe a man who has done fuck all?

 

 

You see, I truly can't see how that's relevant.

 

*puts on tin hat*