He's back?

[BottledDog]

Like johnnypd I think Ashley brought in the system to keep a lid on expenses and to bring in players who would increase in value and be sold on at a profit. A massive difference from the idea of buying in the best young talent to build a long term successful team. I know most were overjoyed at the sale of Milner for so much, but the unwillingness we had to negotiate his contract, and his subsequent sale don't signal the intention that we are going to try too hard to hang on to the young players we bring in who do turn out to be any good.

 

I don't see how either you or Johnny can say what he was planning to do, the idea behind bringing in younger players is that it does cut down on expenses in that you have them develop at your club rather than have them develop somewhere else, our biggest problem in the Summer was that we didn't buy enough of them but who's fault that was I don't know.

 

As for Milner, Are you for real? He was fucking shite, man. Even the Villa fans think so yet we should have tried to keep even though we sold him for double what he was worth?! Madness.

 

When all other things are equal (existing contract duration, current ability, etc) a young player will cost more than an older player. You pay a premium for potential. As a way of putting together a team that can compete NOW it would be a more expensive route to go, not a cost saving exercise.

 

If the young players you're bringing in are cheap, they're usually cheap for a reason, and the chances are they have a long way to go to before they are ready to be first choice selections. Of course you can get lucky and find a player like Bassong, or to a lesser extent Guthrie, but more often than not these youngster's who all clubs are on the lookout for will take years to develop, and in in most cases wont in fact reach their potential. Also, the system didn't find these players, the people within the system found them. The ones which were brought in, Keegan was obviously happy with. Who knows how successful the ones Keegan tuned down would have been, maybe Keegan was the one who could filter out the good ones. There's more chance that he knows how to spot a player than Wise, simply through having more experience at it.

 

 

As for Milner, he's 22 & at least 2 clubs were in for him. It wasn't a one-time not to be missed sale, yet we were so desperate to offload him and get the cash before Mike tried to sell up, we rushed it thorough so he could play for Villa at the weekend while we were short on numbers in midfield. When you consider the low wages he'll be on & the years of professional, fairly consistent, low injury rate, uncomplaining service he'll give Villa, I think he'll easily be worth his transfer fee in value in the long run. I bet he'll create and score more goals than Jonas this season for a start [puts tin hat on].

 

 

Considering Milner had to hand in a transfer request to get things moving, it would suggest we were far from "desperate to offload him".

 

A fantastic bit of business all things considered, just too late in the window to use the money (though Keegan himself defended that issue when he brought up Cole and spoke of waiting for the right player even if that meant sitting on the money for a while).

[TRon]

Like johnnypd I think Ashley brought in the system to keep a lid on expenses and to bring in players who would increase in value and be sold on at a profit. A massive difference from the idea of buying in the best young talent to build a long term successful team. I know most were overjoyed at the sale of Milner for so much, but the unwillingness we had to negotiate his contract, and his subsequent sale don't signal the intention that we are going to try too hard to hang on to the young players we bring in who do turn out to be any good.

 

I don't see how either you or Johnny can say what he was planning to do, the idea behind bringing in younger players is that it does cut down on expenses in that you have them develop at your club rather than have them develop somewhere else, our biggest problem in the Summer was that we didn't buy enough of them but who's fault that was I don't know.

 

As for Milner, Are you for real? He was fucking shite, man. Even the Villa fans think so yet we should have tried to keep even though we sold him for double what he was worth?! Madness.

 

When all other things are equal (existing contract duration, current ability, etc) a young player will cost more than an older player. You pay a premium for potential. As a way of putting together a team that can compete NOW it would be a more expensive route to go, not a cost saving exercise.

 

If the young players you're bringing in are cheap, they're usually cheap for a reason, and the chances are they have a long way to go to before they are ready to be first choice selections. Of course you can get lucky and find a player like Bassong, or to a lesser extent Guthrie, but more often than not these youngster's who all clubs are on the lookout for will take years to develop, and in in most cases wont in fact reach their potential. Also, the system didn't find these players, the people within the system found them. The ones which were brought in, Keegan was obviously happy with. Who knows how successful the ones Keegan tuned down would have been, maybe Keegan was the one who could filter out the good ones. There's more chance that he knows how to spot a player than Wise, simply through having more experience at it.

 

 

As for Milner, he's 22 & at least 2 clubs were in for him. It wasn't a one-time not to be missed sale, yet we were so desperate to offload him and get the cash before Mike tried to sell up, we rushed it thorough so he could play for Villa at the weekend while we were short on numbers in midfield. When you consider the low wages he'll be on & the years of professional, fairly consistent, low injury rate, uncomplaining service he'll give Villa, I think he'll easily be worth his transfer fee in value in the long run. I bet he'll create and score more goals than Jonas this season for a start [puts tin hat on].

 

 

Milner will have more dynamic central midfielders to work with, i.e., a rolls royce player like Gareth Barry, Petrov and Reo-coker as opposed to chitty-chitty bang-bang Butt. He'll have strikers with pace and aerial power like Carew and Agbonlahor to aim for rather than toon midgets Owen and Martins. If he doesn't create and score more he would have to be absolutely useless. Not that I think there'll be much in it.

[Baggio]

Like johnnypd I think Ashley brought in the system to keep a lid on expenses and to bring in players who would increase in value and be sold on at a profit. A massive difference from the idea of buying in the best young talent to build a long term successful team. I know most were overjoyed at the sale of Milner for so much, but the unwillingness we had to negotiate his contract, and his subsequent sale don't signal the intention that we are going to try too hard to hang on to the young players we bring in who do turn out to be any good.

 

I don't see how either you or Johnny can say what he was planning to do, the idea behind bringing in younger players is that it does cut down on expenses in that you have them develop at your club rather than have them develop somewhere else, our biggest problem in the Summer was that we didn't buy enough of them but who's fault that was I don't know.

 

As for Milner, Are you for real? He was fucking shite, man. Even the Villa fans think so yet we should have tried to keep even though we sold him for double what he was worth?! Madness.

 

When all other things are equal (existing contract duration, current ability, etc) a young player will cost more than an older player. You pay a premium for potential. As a way of putting together a team that can compete NOW it would be a more expensive route to go, not a cost saving exercise.

 

If the young players you're bringing in are cheap, they're usually cheap for a reason, and the chances are they have a long way to go to before they are ready to be first choice selections. Of course you can get lucky and find a player like Bassong, or to a lesser extent Guthrie, but more often than not these youngster's who all clubs are on the lookout for will take years to develop, and in in most cases wont in fact reach their potential. Also, the system didn't find these players, the people within the system found them. The ones which were brought in, Keegan was obviously happy with. Who knows how successful the ones Keegan tuned down would have been, maybe Keegan was the one who could filter out the good ones. There's more chance that he knows how to spot a player than Wise, simply through having more experience at it.

 

 

As for Milner, he's 22 & at least 2 clubs were in for him. It wasn't a one-time not to be missed sale, yet we were so desperate to offload him and get the cash before Mike tried to sell up, we rushed it thorough so he could play for Villa at the weekend while we were short on numbers in midfield. When you consider the low wages he'll be on & the years of professional, fairly consistent, low injury rate, uncomplaining service he'll give Villa, I think he'll easily be worth his transfer fee in value in the long run. I bet he'll create and score more goals than Jonas this season for a start [puts tin hat on].

 

 

And Geremi created more than Milner last season which as I've told you before means very little if his overall contribution to the team isn't up to much, Milner's contribution to the team was non existent and slowed down more attacks with his constant need to turn back on himself and try a beat the same man over and over again.

 

My only advice to someone who thought Milner was a bigger asset to the team than Jonas is to either watch more football or pack it in altogether.

[Optimistic Nut]

The other team interested in Milner were Liverpool, who bought Riera instead, so yes, Villa who were the only club interested, and being as they're now interested in Valencia, there's a good chance had we not sold him while we could in August, we'd have been stuck with him in January too.

[Consortium of one]

I think the DOF model would have worked with the right backroom staff in place, even with Keegan as manager.  Lliambas, Wise and Jiminez were in over their heads, IMO, and I think that Keegan had had enough of the BS they were feeding him.  I'll bet he got pissed off, called them on it (I'm speculating) and they began to force him out in retaliation.  The first mistake was not having key personal in Newcastle as opposed to London.  When all the shit hit the fan, there were reports that Lliambas and Wise were texting players from London when by all rights they should have gotten their asses up to the club to work with the staff and players directly.  If Lliambas, Wise, et al were headquartered with the team, communication would have been much better with the staff, players and fans, especially Keegan.  Allowing upper management to operate so far away is ludicrous, IMO, and it made the whole operation problematic which ultimately led to the break down and the resultant mess.

 

If Ashley stays and he's serious about being the owner the first thing he'll have to do is fire or reassign Wise and get someone who can handle the job.  Upper management should be relocated to be closer to the club and some money should be committed to the January window.  It doesn't have to be exhorbitant but enough to fill out the squad so it has adequate coverage at all positions.

 

On a seperate note, Owen should be sold off unless he wants to commit to the future of the club.  Any money from Owen sale should be plowed back into the roster IMMEDIATELY other wise Ashley will get flack for for owning a selling club.  He might have to walk a tightrope for a while but I think Ashley can get through this.  He just has to learn not to trust some of the people he has previously trusted.

[UV]

The other team interested in Milner were Liverpool, who bought Riera instead, so yes, Villa who were the only club interested, and being as they're now interested in Valencia, there's a good chance had we not sold him while we could in August, we'd have been stuck with him in January too.

 

Liverpool were only interested, it was Everton who also put in a £10m+ bid according to numerous news sources at the time.

 

 

Has anyone got any more details on the extent of the vast new worldwide scouting network yet btw?

 

[Baggio]

The other team interested in Milner were Liverpool, who bought Riera instead, so yes, Villa who were the only club interested, and being as they're now interested in Valencia, there's a good chance had we not sold him while we could in August, we'd have been stuck with him in January too.

 

Liverpool were only interested, it was Everton who also put in a £10m+ bid according to numerous news sources at the time.

 

 

Has anyone got any more details on the extent of the vast new worldwide scouting network yet btw?

 

 

I'm not sure if it's vast just yet as I'd imagine it's something that will take a while to put together.

 

Former Mackem Vic Halom is a scout for us based in Bulgaria, also the former Racing Santander scout is based in Spain.

 

Not sure who else is where, you don't really here much about scouts names.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

What would Ashley have to do to convince you he's right for Newcastle United, NE5?

 

I mean to put this debacle completely to bed, for you - assuming any sale is off.

 

Is it purely and simply about spending money? So if the club spent £20m net this window you'd be convinced and happy?

 

Genuine questions btw, please don't bring up the usual stuff about the old lot.

 

Open it up as a topic in a new thread Dave, would be worth reading what people would be happy with. 

[NE5]

Like johnnypd I think Ashley brought in the system to keep a lid on expenses and to bring in players who would increase in value and be sold on at a profit. A massive difference from the idea of buying in the best young talent to build a long term successful team. I know most were overjoyed at the sale of Milner for so much, but the unwillingness we had to negotiate his contract, and his subsequent sale don't signal the intention that we are going to try too hard to hang on to the young players we bring in who do turn out to be any good.

 

I don't see how either you or Johnny can say what he was planning to do, the idea behind bringing in younger players is that it does cut down on expenses in that you have them develop at your club rather than have them develop somewhere else, our biggest problem in the Summer was that we didn't buy enough of them but who's fault that was I don't know.

 

 

 

staggering the amount of Shepherd haters who can't bring themselves to admit that soopa mike has been a disaster and considering they actually thought that Shepherd was shite, even worse.

 

 

[Dave]

Oh for fuck's sake.

[Guest Edd]

Oh for fuck's sake.

It's funny because it was sooooo predictable 

[NE5]

What would Ashley have to do to convince you he's right for Newcastle United, NE5?

 

I mean to put this debacle completely to bed, for you - assuming any sale is off.

 

Is it purely and simply about spending money? So if the club spent £20m net this window you'd be convinced and happy?

 

Genuine questions btw, please don't bring up the usual stuff about the old lot.

 

If you mean here on the board, you could start by lecturing people like Ozzie not to spoil threads with stupid posts.

 

But I doubt that you will, at least not on the board like you have to me. Go on, prove you aren't a hypocrite.

 

If you mean the club, then he has to back his manager and behave like a top club ought to do. That is not just money, although its the major part of it. He has to accept such things like Newcastle United is a big publicity machine too, and needs to feed its supporters with news on a daily basis, its all part of the pressure of being a big football orientated city. He has to get our top players to sign new contracts by looking after them, rewarding them if they deserve it, giving new contracts to those who have earned it and who the manager wants to keep [and I don;t mean waiting for current deals to expire].

 

He has to learn that owning a top club like this means he can go the extra mile re contracts and signings, and ought to do. A couple of million quid is pin money when put against the players the manager feels are worth it, and he also has to accept that his manager will make signings that don't work out. So, aye, its money. Football costs money. If you don't accept this, you're an also ran.

 

I've said all this before, its impossible to seperate it from "the old lot" as you call them. In my opinion, a lot of people need to wake up, and hopefully the next time we have an owners who behave "like the old lot" you will appreciate them more instead of wishing for someone else and ending up with Ashley.

 

 

[NE5]

I think the DOF model would have worked with the right backroom staff in place, even with Keegan as manager.  Lliambas, Wise and Jiminez were in over their heads, IMO, and I think that Keegan had had enough of the BS they were feeding him.  I'll bet he got pissed off, called them on it (I'm speculating) and they began to force him out in retaliation.  The first mistake was not having key personal in Newcastle as opposed to London.  When all the shit hit the fan, there were reports that Lliambas and Wise were texting players from London when by all rights they should have gotten their asses up to the club to work with the staff and players directly.  If Lliambas, Wise, et al were headquartered with the team, communication would have been much better with the staff, players and fans, especially Keegan.  Allowing upper management to operate so far away is ludicrous, IMO, and it made the whole operation problematic which ultimately led to the break down and the resultant mess.

 

If Ashley stays and he's serious about being the owner the first thing he'll have to do is fire or reassign Wise and get someone who can handle the job.  Upper management should be relocated to be closer to the club and some money should be committed to the January window.  It doesn't have to be exhorbitant but enough to fill out the squad so it has adequate coverage at all positions.

 

On a seperate note, Owen should be sold off unless he wants to commit to the future of the club.  Any money from Owen sale should be plowed back into the roster IMMEDIATELY other wise Ashley will get flack for for owning a selling club.  He might have to walk a tightrope for a while but I think Ashley can get through this.  He just has to learn not to trust some of the people he has previously trusted.

 

All Keegan wanted [mainly] was to have the last word on transfers. And to be able to tell the DOF what to do, as his cheif scout, which is all he should be ie a fancy title.

 

 

[NE5]

What would Ashley have to do to convince you he's right for Newcastle United, NE5?

 

I mean to put this debacle completely to bed, for you - assuming any sale is off.

 

Is it purely and simply about spending money? So if the club spent £20m net this window you'd be convinced and happy?

 

Genuine questions btw, please don't bring up the usual stuff about the old lot.

 

Personally, I'd be appeased, but no more.

 

If he spends money now I will think he's doing it because he feels he has to (to keep his investment in the PL) not because he wants to (to improve the team as much as he can year on year).

 

It would take years of him regularly putting every penny of the club's self generated revenue back into the club as a minimum before I would believe in Ashley now (and that doesn't include paying off the debts to himself).

 

yep, it would take a lot for me to trust and believe him. I'd like to think it but I don't think he would.

 

 

[Guest Howaythetoon]

I will happily say right here and now that Mike Ashley is by far and away worse than Freddy Shepherd who I will say right here and now I couldn't stand and was glad to see go. Ashley makes FS look like SJH during the KK years and if I had a choice between the two FS would win hands down. Indeed Ashley's mismanagement of the club and all the issues effecting us right now has made me re-evaluate FS's time here and FS as a figure in the club's history. The grass isn't always greener, be careful what you wish for etc. couldn't be more true! I stand by my thoughts on FS which have been well documented over the years on this forum but in retrospect, he wasn't quite the devil I made him out to be.

[Dave]

What would Ashley have to do to convince you he's right for Newcastle United, NE5?

 

I mean to put this debacle completely to bed, for you - assuming any sale is off.

 

Is it purely and simply about spending money? So if the club spent £20m net this window you'd be convinced and happy?

 

Genuine questions btw, please don't bring up the usual stuff about the old lot.

 

He has to back his manager and behave like a top club ought to do. That is not just money, although its the major part of it. He has to accept such things like Newcastle United is a big publicity machine too, and needs to feed its supporters with news on a daily basis, its all part of the pressure of being a big football orientated city. He has to get our top players to sign new contracts by looking after them, rewarding them if they deserve it, giving new contracts to those who have earned it and who the manager wants to keep [and I don;t mean waiting for current deals to expire].

 

He has to learn that owning a top club like this means he can go the extra mile re contracts and signings, and ought to do. A couple of million quid is pin money when put against the players the manager feels are worth it, and he also has to accept that his manager will make signings that don't work out. So, aye, its money. Football costs money. If you don't accept this, you're an also ran.

 

Cheers.

[NE5]

I will happily say right here and now that Mike Ashley is by far and away worse than Freddy Shepherd who I will say right here and now I couldn't stand and was glad to see go. Ashley makes FS look like SJH during the KK years and if I had a choice between the two FS would win hands down. Indeed Ashley's mismanagement of the club and all the issues effecting us right now has made me re-evaluate FS's time here and FS as a figure in the club's history. The grass isn't always greener, be careful what you wish for etc. couldn't be more true! I stand by my thoughts on FS which have been well documented over the years on this forum but in retrospect, he wasn't quite the devil I made him out to be.

 

Not surprised you admit it mate. Well said.

 

 

 

 

[OzzieMandias]

I will happily say right here and now that Mike Ashley is by far and away worse than Freddy Shepherd who I will say right here and now I couldn't stand and was glad to see go. Ashley makes FS look like SJH during the KK years and if I had a choice between the two FS would win hands down. Indeed Ashley's mismanagement of the club and all the issues effecting us right now has made me re-evaluate FS's time here and FS as a figure in the club's history. The grass isn't always greener, be careful what you wish for etc. couldn't be more true! I stand by my thoughts on FS which have been well documented over the years on this forum but in retrospect, he wasn't quite the devil I made him out to be.

I will happily say right here and now that Mike Ashley is by far and away worse than Freddy Shepherd who I will say right here and now I couldn't stand and was glad to see go. Ashley makes FS look like SJH during the KK years and if I had a choice between the two FS would win hands down. Indeed Ashley's mismanagement of the club and all the issues effecting us right now has made me re-evaluate FS's time here and FS as a figure in the club's history. The grass isn't always greener, be careful what you wish for etc. couldn't be more true! I stand by my thoughts on FS which have been well documented over the years on this forum but in retrospect, he wasn't quite the devil I made him out to be.

 

Not surprised you admit it mate. Well said.

 

 

 

 

 

Hindsight.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

Regarding Ashley there isn't a thing that he could do to convince me he was genuine, sincere and whole hearted with his intentions for NUFC. He is a complete fake and a snide b****** to go with it. If he were in the mafia he'd be a rat. We'd be mugs to welcome him back. By all means come back Ashley but stay the f*** in the background and do what you have to do to get things in order. Don't get too comfy though, you're not welcome!

[Optimistic Nut]

Regarding Ashley there isn't a thing that he could do to convince me he was genuine, sincere and whole hearted with his intentions for NUFC. He is a complete fake and a snide b****** to go with it. If he were in the mafia he'd be a rat. We'd be mugs to welcome him back. By all means come back Ashley but stay the f*** in the background and do what you have to do to get things in order.

 

If a chairman who slagged off Shearer as being boring, and Newcastle women can put things right (which I think Shepherd did to be fair), then why can't Ashley be given a second chance?

[Guest Howaythetoon]

Regarding Ashley there isn't a thing that he could do to convince me he was genuine, sincere and whole hearted with his intentions for NUFC. He is a complete fake and a snide b****** to go with it. If he were in the mafia he'd be a rat. We'd be mugs to welcome him back. By all means come back Ashley but stay the f*** in the background and do what you have to do to get things in order.

 

If a chairman who slagged off Shearer as being boring, and Newcastle women can put things right (which I think Shepherd did to be fair), then why can't Ashley be given a second chance?

 

I couldn't give a damn about that particular argument, I have no real feelings on the issue other than he will not get another chance with me and there is no chance in hell I would ever welcome his being at Newcastle United regardless. If others want to give him a second chance, knock yourselves out.

[NE5]

What would Ashley have to do to convince you he's right for Newcastle United, NE5?

 

I mean to put this debacle completely to bed, for you - assuming any sale is off.

 

Is it purely and simply about spending money? So if the club spent £20m net this window you'd be convinced and happy?

 

Genuine questions btw, please don't bring up the usual stuff about the old lot.

 

He has to back his manager and behave like a top club ought to do. That is not just money, although its the major part of it. He has to accept such things like Newcastle United is a big publicity machine too, and needs to feed its supporters with news on a daily basis, its all part of the pressure of being a big football orientated city. He has to get our top players to sign new contracts by looking after them, rewarding them if they deserve it, giving new contracts to those who have earned it and who the manager wants to keep [and I don;t mean waiting for current deals to expire].

 

He has to learn that owning a top club like this means he can go the extra mile re contracts and signings, and ought to do. A couple of million quid is pin money when put against the players the manager feels are worth it, and he also has to accept that his manager will make signings that don't work out. So, aye, its money. Football costs money. If you don't accept this, you're an also ran.

 

Cheers.

 

no probs. Do you agree or not ?

 

Shame I was right about you ignoring the first two lines that you clipped though.

 

 

[Dave]

I've told you time and time again, I can't be arsed going over the same shite about the old board and the digs at other forum posters you don't like in threads where something completely separate is being discussed. Fuck knows how you continue to manage to miss this. I couldn't give a fuck what you think of me about it either, so carry on with your 'I was right' nonsense in your head if you wish. No doubt you'll respond to this as well, so just FYI: DON'T FUCKING RESPOND TO THIS, I DON'T WANT TO READ IT AND NEITHER DOES ANYONE ELSE.

 

I asked you a couple of simple questions about ASHLEY and you implicitly answered them, so I trimmed the other worthless irrelevant shite. Thanks for answering.

 

I agree that if we spent £20m this window it'd be a step in the right direction but I'd remain unconvinced until he did so again in order to push us up the league rather than just keeping us in it.

[Cronky]

It's worth pointing out that Ashley has been in charge for just over a year, and there has been a lot of upheaval in that time. We've all got our opinions on how things have gone, and why, but it's actually still early days in the lifetime of a football club.

 

[NE5]

I've told you time and time again, I can't be arsed going over the same shite about the old board and the digs at other forum posters

 

http://www.newcastle-online.org/nufcforum/index.php/topic,58111.msg1587486.html#msg1587486

 

my opinion on the rest of your post that I clipped is that its too little too late, he's been a disaster and lots of you younger guys are now seeing what the club was run like for decades before, eeeer,, 1992. Not quite so bad, but getting there.

 

I also agree that the clubs ambition is now limited to staying in the top league. Now, THAT is "going backwards", because its a major shift in policy. But I pointed this out ages ago too.