Michael Owen gets injured; rejoice!

[Cronky]

'I had talks with the club five or six months ago' is Owen-speak for 'I turned down their offer five or six months ago'.

 

Wow.  I didn't know you knew "Owen-speak," bobyule.  Amazing talent you've got there, to know what someone you've likely never met is really saying.

 

But seriously, he said they were in negotiations, but "the club never got back to us" which implies that Owen and his representatives returned a counter-offer, essentially.  The club offered him something, he tweaked it/outright changed some things (who knows what it was, maybe a 3 yr contract to a 4 or something...maybe 100k to 105k...maybe something as inane as an altered 'marketing appearances' clause -- no way to know) and the club never replied to that negotiation.  That is slightly different than flat turning it down.  I'd be surprised if any of the "big name" players at any club sign the very first thing the club offers.  It's always negotiations (on both sides). 

 

Well the club made a public statement that they had made an offer to Owen that was more favourable than his current contract. He obviously didn't accept it. Your scenario that the two parties were close to an agreement and it would only have taken a bit of 'tweaking' for Owen to sign is wishful thinking, I suspect. The simplest explanation is that Owen is waiting to see if he gets any better offers from bigger clubs. He's got nothing to lose by doing that, after all.

 

 

[Guest rebel_yell12]

'I had talks with the club five or six months ago' is Owen-speak for 'I turned down their offer five or six months ago'.

 

Wow.  I didn't know you knew "Owen-speak," bobyule.  Amazing talent you've got there, to know what someone you've likely never met is really saying.

 

But seriously, he said they were in negotiations, but "the club never got back to us" which implies that Owen and his representatives returned a counter-offer, essentially.  The club offered him something, he tweaked it/outright changed some things (who knows what it was, maybe a 3 yr contract to a 4 or something...maybe 100k to 105k...maybe something as inane as an altered 'marketing appearances' clause -- no way to know) and the club never replied to that negotiation.  That is slightly different than flat turning it down.  I'd be surprised if any of the "big name" players at any club sign the very first thing the club offers.  It's always negotiations (on both sides). 

 

Well the club made a public statement that they had made an offer to Owen that was more favourable than his current contract. He obviously didn't accept it. Your scenario that the two parties were close to an agreement and it would only have taken a bit of 'tweaking' for Owen to sign is wishful thinking, I suspect. The simplest explanation is that Owen is waiting to see if he gets any better offers from bigger clubs. He's got nothing to lose by doing that, after all.

 

 

 

My real point is that they were in negotiations, which is different than turning a contract down outright.  Negotiations implies "I'm willing to sign, I just don't like parts X, Y, and maybe Z" rather than turning a contract down which is "take this job and shove it, I ain't workin here no more." (to utilize a bad country-western song someone at my workplace seems to love)  I didn't even say they were "close" to an agreement -- it may have been a tweak, it may have been an outright change, I don't know.  More to the point, neither do you nor anyone else who is not Owen, his agent, or the people on the club's end.

 

The club's opinion was that Owen's contract was more favourable, and it was offered in late August -- when the mess with Keegan (the "hysteria" as Owen called it Sat.) came to a head.  We don't know Owen's opinion on any part/clause of the contract.  We don't even know how long he had to consider it before Keegan resigned and the club went to hell again.  I don't think we can really know what is going on with Owen, except that he says that the CLUB is not negotiating at this point.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

Any decent bid will be accepted from the powers that be and I can see several clubs paying *decent money for him such as Spurs, Everton, Villa and maybe even Man Utd or Chelsea as such a player could do wonders for them in the latter stages of the CL.

 

*He's got to be worth at least £5-7m?

 

For a Villa his goals could be the difference between finishing 4th or not or the type of goalscorer that could clinch CL success.

 

He'll go in Jan.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

There was something very suspicious about the whole Owen contract offer that the club made public, the timing and the manner it was announced. To me it read like we have offered him a contract without ever really committing to making certain he signed it.

 

He should have been signed up the moment KK talked about the need to sign him up and at that point I think he'd have signed as he was playing for a good manager, a club that seemed to be going places under that manager, was free of injury and importantly scoring goals and enjoying himself.

 

My conclusion? The club never had any intentions to sign him up.

 

If I remember right Allardyce also talked about the need to review his contract and I can remember Mort saying something similar.

 

Noticeably none of these people are at the club anymore and I am certain Owen will be next, by leaving in Jan.

[Mowen]

There was something very suspicious about the whole Owen contract offer that the club made public, the timing and the manner it was announced. To me it read like we have offered him a contract without ever really committing to making certain he signed it.

 

He should have been signed up the moment KK talked about the need to sign him up and at that point I think he'd have signed as he was playing for a good manager, a club that seemed to be going places under that manager, was free of injury and importantly scoring goals and enjoying himself.

 

My conclusion? The club never had any intentions to sign him up.

 

If I remember right Allardyce also talked about the need to review his contract and I can remember Mort saying something similar.

 

Noticeably none of these people are at the club anymore and I am certain Owen will be next, by leaving in Jan.

 

I don't believe Owen ever had any intention of staying longer than his initial 4 year contract, unless things went seriously well.

[Guest whydelilah]

Owen is different class, you need to do everything you can to keep hold of him.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

There was something very suspicious about the whole Owen contract offer that the club made public, the timing and the manner it was announced. To me it read like we have offered him a contract without ever really committing to making certain he signed it.

 

He should have been signed up the moment KK talked about the need to sign him up and at that point I think he'd have signed as he was playing for a good manager, a club that seemed to be going places under that manager, was free of injury and importantly scoring goals and enjoying himself.

 

My conclusion? The club never had any intentions to sign him up.

 

If I remember right Allardyce also talked about the need to review his contract and I can remember Mort saying something similar.

 

Noticeably none of these people are at the club anymore and I am certain Owen will be next, by leaving in Jan.

 

I don't believe Owen ever had any intention of staying longer than his initial 4 year contract, unless things went seriously well.

 

He's a footballer with no ties to this club, its what I'd expect from most players. I expect my club to try their level best to keep their best players however regardless of the players' intentions and at no stage under Mike Ashley have we appeared to be doing that with Owen.

[Decky]

There was something very suspicious about the whole Owen contract offer that the club made public, the timing and the manner it was announced. To me it read like we have offered him a contract without ever really committing to making certain he signed it.

 

He should have been signed up the moment KK talked about the need to sign him up and at that point I think he'd have signed as he was playing for a good manager, a club that seemed to be going places under that manager, was free of injury and importantly scoring goals and enjoying himself.

 

My conclusion? The club never had any intentions to sign him up.

 

If I remember right Allardyce also talked about the need to review his contract and I can remember Mort saying something similar.

 

Noticeably none of these people are at the club anymore and I am certain Owen will be next, by leaving in Jan.

 

Aye costing fat Mike too much per month. He wont have to worry though when all our players are on about 8k a week from next year onwards.

[Mick]

Why does this surprise anyone?

 

Ashley it seems will definitely be selling up next summer at the moment, and Owen is contracted to us until then right?

 

Why would you all then expect him to throw more money at Owen at this moment in time.

 

 

 

What you are saying is that Ashley will sell the club and will not give Owen a new contract which comes in to force until Ashley has gone but Ashley is doing it to save him money.

 

How does that one work?

[Guest Howaythetoon]

He'll take some money and the saving of his wages if the opportunity to do so comes up which it will do.

[midds]

Absolutely no excuse for not resolving Owen's contract issue months and months ago. Should never have got to this stage.

[Teasy]

Why does this surprise anyone?

 

Ashley it seems will definitely be selling up next summer at the moment, and Owen is contracted to us until then right?

 

Why would you all then expect him to throw more money at Owen at this moment in time.

 

 

 

Because Newcastle United is worth more with Michael Owen contracted to it and giving him a new contract doesn't cost him a penny, it comes from club revenue.

[Liam Liam Liam O]

Absolutely no excuse for not resolving Owen's contract issue months and months ago. Should never have got to this stage.

 

This, however I have no doubt he didn't intend signing it then either.

[midds]

Absolutely no excuse for not resolving Owen's contract issue months and months ago. Should never have got to this stage.

 

This, however I have no doubt he didn't intend signing it then either.

 

Me neither but obviously we'd have gotten a bit of £££ for him when moving him on which is the sensible way of doing it. Just a lack of intelligence, foresight and planning. And it's fucking annoying the more you think about it.

[Liam Liam Liam O]

Absolutely no excuse for not resolving Owen's contract issue months and months ago. Should never have got to this stage.

 

This, however I have no doubt he didn't intend signing it then either.

 

Me neither but obviously we'd have gotten a bit of £££ for him when moving him on which is the sensible way of doing it. Just a lack of intelligence, foresight and planning. And it's fucking annoying the more you think about it.

 

Precisely, we should now be in the position where we are saying "We offered Michael an excellent contract 6 months ago and despite long negotiations he's chosen to see out his contract" rather than looking like the mugs we always do.

[Guest Chris P]

You're like a bunch of women. You can all see the future

[Cronky]

'I had talks with the club five or six months ago' is Owen-speak for 'I turned down their offer five or six months ago'.

 

Wow.  I didn't know you knew "Owen-speak," bobyule.  Amazing talent you've got there, to know what someone you've likely never met is really saying.

 

But seriously, he said they were in negotiations, but "the club never got back to us" which implies that Owen and his representatives returned a counter-offer, essentially.  The club offered him something, he tweaked it/outright changed some things (who knows what it was, maybe a 3 yr contract to a 4 or something...maybe 100k to 105k...maybe something as inane as an altered 'marketing appearances' clause -- no way to know) and the club never replied to that negotiation.  That is slightly different than flat turning it down.  I'd be surprised if any of the "big name" players at any club sign the very first thing the club offers.  It's always negotiations (on both sides). 

 

Well the club made a public statement that they had made an offer to Owen that was more favourable than his current contract. He obviously didn't accept it. Your scenario that the two parties were close to an agreement and it would only have taken a bit of 'tweaking' for Owen to sign is wishful thinking, I suspect. The simplest explanation is that Owen is waiting to see if he gets any better offers from bigger clubs. He's got nothing to lose by doing that, after all.

 

 

 

My real point is that they were in negotiations, which is different than turning a contract down outright.  Negotiations implies "I'm willing to sign, I just don't like parts X, Y, and maybe Z" rather than turning a contract down which is "take this job and shove it, I ain't workin here no more." (to utilize a bad country-western song someone at my workplace seems to love)  I didn't even say they were "close" to an agreement -- it may have been a tweak, it may have been an outright change, I don't know.  More to the point, neither do you nor anyone else who is not Owen, his agent, or the people on the club's end.

 

The club's opinion was that Owen's contract was more favourable, and it was offered in late August -- when the mess with Keegan (the "hysteria" as Owen called it Sat.) came to a head.  We don't know Owen's opinion on any part/clause of the contract.  We don't even know how long he had to consider it before Keegan resigned and the club went to hell again.  I don't think we can really know what is going on with Owen, except that he says that the CLUB is not negotiating at this point.

 

I suppose I get annoyed over this issue, because I really don't know what people expect of the club. He's already on very generous wages which he wouldn't get elsewhere, and the club offered him an improvement. If he's not accepted it, then it boils down to how much he wants to move to another club.

 

If people are expecting the club to offer him a really large increase on his current salary in order to overcome his desire to move elsewhere, then that's crazy. We've made that mistake before, and besides, it's a team game and there has to be some kind of wage structure based on merit.

[Dokko]

Absolutely no excuse for not resolving Owen's contract issue months and months ago. Should never have got to this stage.

 

You sound like me many moons ago, was always going to happen, the biggest shock of the season for me would be Owen signing a new deal.

[Guest rebel_yell12]

 

I suppose I get annoyed over this issue, because I really don't know what people expect of the club. He's already on very generous wages which he wouldn't get elsewhere, and the club offered him an improvement. If he's not accepted it, then it boils down to how much he wants to move to another club.

 

If people are expecting the club to offer him a really large increase on his current salary in order to overcome his desire to move elsewhere, then that's crazy. We've made that mistake before, and besides, it's a team game and there has to be some kind of wage structure based on merit.

 

What I'm trying to say -- apparently not very clearly -- is that there is no way to know what the hang-up was.  Maybe wages were agreed, but they were negotiating something else...say goal bonuses or appearance bonuses or even how many marketing appearances Owen is contractually obligated to undertake.  I'd be willing to bet that a professional footballer's contract (esp. one like Owen's) is at least a dozen pages of legalese and clauses and all sorts of things to negotiate about that have nothing to do with whether Owen wants to leave or wants a pay increase or the club wants to slash his wages -- although those things make the best headlines so that's what the papers run.  Or you know, shockingly, maybe Michael Owen (worth 45+ mil already iirc) isn't arsed about an extra 10k per week or whatever.  Maybe he just wants out so he can be at a club in the top-half of the table.  No one here knows WHY it wasn't signed or even if Owen had enough time to consider it before the club went to hell.  You seem locked into this conclusion that Owen turned it down flat because of money.  Maybe I've misread your intention, but that's how I read what you posted.

 

Now, I agree that there should be a wage structure based on merit.  My main problem with this argument is that it seems to be almost exclusively aimed at Owen of late.  If I set up a 'meritocracy' at Newcastle, Owen and Given would be on the highest pay.  Simple as.  Unfortunately, the market doesn't dictate as high of wages for keepers as for strikers, but if it was on merits, I'd put those two tops.  Followed by the hard-to-replace regulars in the XI -- Beye, Martins, & Butt (though his would be short-term).  This group followed by the valued role players/more inexperienced of the XI -- Jonas, Colo, Duff (by Kinnear's system of use), & Harper (top-notch back-up, imo) -- and then by the youngsters with promise -- N'Zog, Taylor, Bassong, Enrique, Guthrie -- and then the back-up players -- ie Geremi, Cacapa, Smith.  The lowest paid would be the unproven/fringe -- Carroll, Ameobi, Xisco, Krul (assuming he's not upped to 2nd string keeper), Edgar, etc.  Those on "special" contracts would be Viduka (whose fitness makes Michael Owen look like the man of steel), and Barton (contingent on staying eligible).  That's the sort of hierarchy I'd impose, if I were a billionaire club owner.  What they made would be dictated by the market, of course, but those are the groupings I'd use.  The problem with Newcastle's wages, imo, are the people seriously out of place (Viduka, Smith, Barton? & Duff, imo). 

 

 

[merlin]

Any decent bid will be accepted from the powers that be and I can see several clubs paying *decent money for him such as Spurs, Everton, Villa and maybe even Man Utd or Chelsea as such a player could do wonders for them in the latter stages of the CL.

 

*He's got to be worth at least £5-7m?

 

For a Villa his goals could be the difference between finishing 4th or not or the type of goalscorer that could clinch CL success.

 

He'll go in Jan.

 

You're right on the money, HTT - good to see that there are at least a FEW realists on this board.

I made the same comment about Villa on the '80% Chance of keeping Owen' thread a few days ago, and was told to Piss Off by Asipith,who found support in Bobyule....

 

Lets see who is right in a few weeks.....OR months.

[Offshore]

Any decent bid will be accepted from the powers that be and I can see several clubs paying *decent money for him such as Spurs, Everton, Villa and maybe even Man Utd or Chelsea as such a player could do wonders for them in the latter stages of the CL.

 

*He's got to be worth at least £5-7m?

 

For a Villa his goals could be the difference between finishing 4th or not or the type of goalscorer that could clinch CL success.

 

He'll go in Jan.

 

You're right on the money, HTT - good to see that there are at least a FEW realists on this board.

I made the same comment about Villa on the '80% Chance of keeping Owen' thread a few days ago, and was told to Piss Off by Asipith,who found support in Bobyule....

 

Lets see who is right in a few weeks.....OR months.

 

The only thing i'd agree about that is the fee amount.

 

Ashley may well be intend on getting as much cash for himself as he can, selling Owen increases the chance of relegation so it doesn't make sense to get £5-7m in Jan and risk losing £50-100m in the summer if/when we go down because we couldn't score enough goals.

 

He may be daft but he's not that stupid.

 

 

[Guest Howaythetoon]

Any decent bid will be accepted from the powers that be and I can see several clubs paying *decent money for him such as Spurs, Everton, Villa and maybe even Man Utd or Chelsea as such a player could do wonders for them in the latter stages of the CL.

 

*He's got to be worth at least £5-7m?

 

For a Villa his goals could be the difference between finishing 4th or not or the type of goalscorer that could clinch CL success.

 

He'll go in Jan.

 

You're right on the money, HTT - good to see that there are at least a FEW realists on this board.

I made the same comment about Villa on the '80% Chance of keeping Owen' thread a few days ago, and was told to Piss Off by Asipith,who found support in Bobyule....

 

Lets see who is right in a few weeks.....OR months.

 

The only thing i'd agree about that is the fee amount.

 

Ashley may well be intend on getting as much cash for himself as he can, selling Owen increases the chance of relegation so it doesn't make sense to get £5-7m in Jan and risk losing £50-100m in the summer if/when we go down because we couldn't score enough goals.

 

He may be daft but he's not that stupid.

 

 

 

He's a gambler who hasn't a clue about football so he won't consider Owen leaving = certain relegation. He'll just look at the ££££ signs. He's gambled our safety on Joe Kinnear FFS. Mike Ashley will recoup his money either way in the long run, whether we stay or up, go down or we get sold. Going down will devalue the club by some margin of course but he can still get his money back even if we are down in the Championship. Sponsorship of the shirt is around the corner, a new TV deal is 2 years away. My point - whether we stay up or go down is of no real consequence to Ashley's ultimate goal of making a profit on NUFC.

[madras]

Any decent bid will be accepted from the powers that be and I can see several clubs paying *decent money for him such as Spurs, Everton, Villa and maybe even Man Utd or Chelsea as such a player could do wonders for them in the latter stages of the CL.

 

*He's got to be worth at least £5-7m?

 

For a Villa his goals could be the difference between finishing 4th or not or the type of goalscorer that could clinch CL success.

 

He'll go in Jan.

 

You're right on the money, HTT - good to see that there are at least a FEW realists on this board.

I made the same comment about Villa on the '80% Chance of keeping Owen' thread a few days ago, and was told to Piss Off by Asipith,who found support in Bobyule....

 

Lets see who is right in a few weeks.....OR months.

 

The only thing i'd agree about that is the fee amount.

 

Ashley may well be intend on getting as much cash for himself as he can, selling Owen increases the chance of relegation so it doesn't make sense to get £5-7m in Jan and risk losing £50-100m in the summer if/when we go down because we couldn't score enough goals.

 

He may be daft but he's not that stupid.

 

 

 

He's a gambler who hasn't a clue about football so he won't consider Owen leaving = certain relegation. He'll just look at the ££££ signs. He's gambled our safety on Joe Kinnear FFS. Mike Ashley will recoup his money either way in the long run, whether we stay or up, go down or we get sold. Going down will devalue the club by some margin of course but he can still get his money back even if we are down in the Championship. Sponsorship of the shirt is around the corner, a new TV deal is 2 years away. My point - whether we stay up or go down is of no real consequence to Ashley's ultimate goal of making a profit on NUFC.

yeah the sponsorship and tv money we'd get in the championship will help make a profit

[Guest Howaythetoon]

Any decent bid will be accepted from the powers that be and I can see several clubs paying *decent money for him such as Spurs, Everton, Villa and maybe even Man Utd or Chelsea as such a player could do wonders for them in the latter stages of the CL.

 

*He's got to be worth at least £5-7m?

 

For a Villa his goals could be the difference between finishing 4th or not or the type of goalscorer that could clinch CL success.

 

He'll go in Jan.

 

You're right on the money, HTT - good to see that there are at least a FEW realists on this board.

I made the same comment about Villa on the '80% Chance of keeping Owen' thread a few days ago, and was told to Piss Off by Asipith,who found support in Bobyule....

 

Lets see who is right in a few weeks.....OR months.

 

The only thing i'd agree about that is the fee amount.

 

Ashley may well be intend on getting as much cash for himself as he can, selling Owen increases the chance of relegation so it doesn't make sense to get £5-7m in Jan and risk losing £50-100m in the summer if/when we go down because we couldn't score enough goals.

 

He may be daft but he's not that stupid.

 

 

 

He's a gambler who hasn't a clue about football so he won't consider Owen leaving = certain relegation. He'll just look at the ££££ signs. He's gambled our safety on Joe Kinnear FFS. Mike Ashley will recoup his money either way in the long run, whether we stay or up, go down or we get sold. Going down will devalue the club by some margin of course but he can still get his money back even if we are down in the Championship. Sponsorship of the shirt is around the corner, a new TV deal is 2 years away. My point - whether we stay up or go down is of no real consequence to Ashley's ultimate goal of making a profit on NUFC.

yeah the sponsorship and tv money we'd get in the championship will help make a profit

 

I'm just saying he can still claw back his money without having to sell the club whether we stay up or go down long term. The TV money and Sponsorship money is obviously bigger if we stay up but will Ashley really be driven to keep Owen based on that? Will he fuck. Like I said he's a gambler and knows his investment which we now know isn't as big as he liked to claim having not paid off all the debt, is still safe long-term, regardless of what league we are in and he's the type who would sit it out until he reclaimed every last penny and then sum.

[madras]

Any decent bid will be accepted from the powers that be and I can see several clubs paying *decent money for him such as Spurs, Everton, Villa and maybe even Man Utd or Chelsea as such a player could do wonders for them in the latter stages of the CL.

 

*He's got to be worth at least £5-7m?

 

For a Villa his goals could be the difference between finishing 4th or not or the type of goalscorer that could clinch CL success.

 

He'll go in Jan.

 

You're right on the money, HTT - good to see that there are at least a FEW realists on this board.

I made the same comment about Villa on the '80% Chance of keeping Owen' thread a few days ago, and was told to Piss Off by Asipith,who found support in Bobyule....

 

Lets see who is right in a few weeks.....OR months.

 

The only thing i'd agree about that is the fee amount.

 

Ashley may well be intend on getting as much cash for himself as he can, selling Owen increases the chance of relegation so it doesn't make sense to get £5-7m in Jan and risk losing £50-100m in the summer if/when we go down because we couldn't score enough goals.

 

He may be daft but he's not that stupid.

 

 

 

He's a gambler who hasn't a clue about football so he won't consider Owen leaving = certain relegation. He'll just look at the ££££ signs. He's gambled our safety on Joe Kinnear FFS. Mike Ashley will recoup his money either way in the long run, whether we stay or up, go down or we get sold. Going down will devalue the club by some margin of course but he can still get his money back even if we are down in the Championship. Sponsorship of the shirt is around the corner, a new TV deal is 2 years away. My point - whether we stay up or go down is of no real consequence to Ashley's ultimate goal of making a profit on NUFC.

yeah the sponsorship and tv money we'd get in the championship will help make a profit

 

I'm just saying he can still claw back his money without having to sell the club whether we stay up or go down long term. The TV money and Sponsorship money is obviously bigger if we stay up but will Ashley really be driven to keep Owen based on that? Will he f***. Like I said he's a gambler and knows his investment which we now know isn't as big as he liked to claim having not paid off all the debt, is still safe long-term, regardless of what league we are in and he's the type who would sit it out until he reclaimed every last penny and then sum.

i don't think he can. look at how many clubs in the championship and below turn over a profit and then how big those profits are.add his initial outlay to claw back before he can say he's made a profit on anything.