Mowen Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 Lennon is playing much, much better than SWP this season. Lennon would definitely be my first choice for right wing. He's been superb for the last 18 months or so, I'd start him without a doubt unless Capello can get the team to function with Gerrard and Cole on the flanks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 SWP is a decent player but not in Lennon's league tbh. Another one who came from Chelsea looking a shadow of the player who signed for them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pie Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 Shows the paucity of talent that England have in that position. What chance success when we have a lad who successfully knocked pies out lads hands in the Leazes whilst attempting to cross a ball. As for Lennon and SWP? Better than spotty but not much so and thats another reason why England need to pray next year. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 What utter nonsense. Lennon, SWP and Milner are options. Only one of those will go and compete with Gerrard and J.Cole for a place on the flanks. Italy won it with Mauro Camrogypsi on the wing man. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pie Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 What utter nonsense. Lennon, SWP and Milner are options. Only one of those will go and compete with Gerrard and J.Cole for a place on the flanks. Italy won it with Mauro Camrogypsi on the wing man. Very redtop. Do we really need to go down the route of Arsprilla or Jeanarse? Its witless. Back to the point: Gerrard is wasted out there and not entirely comfortable! Far from it in fact. Joe Cole has been in major championships and performed adequately on the left of midfield. However, there is something inadequate about adequacy isnt there? Square pegs, round holes. Camoranesi is a right sided midfielder and considerably more gifted than the 3 mentioned. As for 'options'. That is the point. As 'specialist' wide men, Milner, SWP and Lennon are weak at international level. Gerrard and Cole could never be described as such, nor can they can be described as comfortable or specialist in that position! Once again: square pegs, round holes! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mowen Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 Gerrard has played his best ever football for England under Capello on the left. By some distance. Lennon has been in brilliant form over the last 18 months, his crossing has improved considerably and will add some important pace and directness (clearly not a real word) to the team. It isn't square pegs, round holes in the slightest because they fit perfectly into the system that Capello has devised and, thus far, has been working brilliantly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astroblack Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 Saw this on a Villa forum. http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/5815/screenshot20091207at161.png Twice the player? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pie Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 Gerrard has played his best ever football for England under Capello on the left. By some distance. Lennon has been in brilliant form over the last 18 months, his crossing has improved considerably and will add some important pace and directness (clearly not a real word) to the team. It isn't square pegs, round holes in the slightest because they fit perfectly into the system that Capello has devised and, thus far, has been working brilliantly. Gerrard has played his best football of his career in the centre though hasnt he really? Through his career, I mean. He looks ok on the left but nowhere near as effective as he can in the centre but he is a top class player. (I personally believe the champions league is a stronger tournament than the World Cup and Gerrard has played exceptionally in that - hence the word "can". Still doesnt look comfortable on the left to be but fair enough. Lennon has been in good rather than brilliant form in the past few months but 18 might be stretching it. I'll hope to share your optimism next year then. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 Gerrard has played his best ever football for England under Capello on the left. By some distance. Lennon has been in brilliant form over the last 18 months, his crossing has improved considerably and will add some important pace and directness (clearly not a real word) to the team. It isn't square pegs, round holes in the slightest because they fit perfectly into the system that Capello has devised and, thus far, has been working brilliantly. Gerrard has played his best football of his career in the centre though hasnt he really? Through his career, I mean. He looks ok on the left but nowhere near as effective as he can in the centre but he is a top class player. (I personally believe the champions league is a stronger tournament than the World Cup and Gerrard has played exceptionally in that - hence the word "can". Still doesnt look comfortable on the left to be but fair enough. Lennon has been in good rather than brilliant form in the past few months but 18 might be stretching it. I'll hope to share your optimism next year then. You're essentially advocating we return to the core problem; that being to shoe-horn our best players into the side willy-nilly - purely for the sake of them being there. That seemed almost a necessity to the likes of McClaren and Eriksson - and this is where Capello is streets ahead of either of them. He's actually found a way to play our two most talented footballers* in the same eleven, in a way that is actually beneficial to the team. That means Gerrard out wide. No, it's not his most effective position on an individual level, but it is for England. He and Lampard simply don't play together in the centre of the pitch. By the by, before anyone tells me... i know McClaren played Gerrard down the right on the odd occassion, but that was as some sort of winger - which he is not. I can't really describe what sort of role Gerrard plays on the left for Capello, but it's more of a withdrawn attacker than an out-and-out winger. He's still a massive goal threat. *That's Gerrard and Lampard, it isn't even up for debate imo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mowen Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 If the team was built around Gerrard he wouldn't be on the left, but Capello has (rightly imo) built it aroung Rooney. Gerrard's best position is behind a lone striker but leaving Rooney up there on his own marginalises him, he needs a partner. Rooney's been sublime, Gerrard and Lampard are both playing very well and scoring goals and the formation seems to have the best fit to optimise the combined talents of our best three attacking players. I thought Lennon was fantastic for the whole of last season, my missus is a Spurs fan so I always see them on the telly and he's been MOTM in almost every game they've played, he looks a different player to the one of two years ago, his crossing and finishing in particular have come on leaps and bounds. FWIW I'm relatively optimistic but it's only a cup competition, anything can happen. At the moment mind we look as though we could do very, very well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mowen Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 Gerrard has played his best ever football for England under Capello on the left. By some distance. Lennon has been in brilliant form over the last 18 months, his crossing has improved considerably and will add some important pace and directness (clearly not a real word) to the team. It isn't square pegs, round holes in the slightest because they fit perfectly into the system that Capello has devised and, thus far, has been working brilliantly. Gerrard has played his best football of his career in the centre though hasnt he really? Through his career, I mean. He looks ok on the left but nowhere near as effective as he can in the centre but he is a top class player. (I personally believe the champions league is a stronger tournament than the World Cup and Gerrard has played exceptionally in that - hence the word "can". Still doesnt look comfortable on the left to be but fair enough. Lennon has been in good rather than brilliant form in the past few months but 18 might be stretching it. I'll hope to share your optimism next year then. You're essentially advocating we return to the core problem; that being to shoe-horn our best players into the side willy-nilly - purely for the sake of them being there. That seemed almost a necessity to the likes of McClaren and Eriksson - and this is where Capello is streets ahead of either of them. He's actually found a way to play our two most talented footballers* in the same eleven, in a way that is actually beneficial to the team. That means Gerrard out wide. No, it's not his most effective position on an individual level, but it is for England. He and Lampard simply don't play together in the centre of the pitch. *That's Gerrard and Lampard, it isn't even up for debate imo. Think you might have forgotten about a cheeky scouser who plays a bit further up the pitch Fully agreed mind. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pie Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 Gerrard has played his best ever football for England under Capello on the left. By some distance. Lennon has been in brilliant form over the last 18 months, his crossing has improved considerably and will add some important pace and directness (clearly not a real word) to the team. It isn't square pegs, round holes in the slightest because they fit perfectly into the system that Capello has devised and, thus far, has been working brilliantly. Gerrard has played his best football of his career in the centre though hasnt he really? Through his career, I mean. He looks ok on the left but nowhere near as effective as he can in the centre but he is a top class player. (I personally believe the champions league is a stronger tournament than the World Cup and Gerrard has played exceptionally in that - hence the word "can". Still doesnt look comfortable on the left to be but fair enough. Lennon has been in good rather than brilliant form in the past few months but 18 might be stretching it. I'll hope to share your optimism next year then. You're essentially advocating we return to the core problem; that being to shoe-horn our best players into the side willy-nilly - purely for the sake of them being there. That seemed almost a necessity to the likes of McClaren and Eriksson - and this is where Capello is streets ahead of either of them. He's actually found a way to play our two most talented footballers* in the same eleven, in a way that is actually beneficial to the team. That means Gerrard out wide. No, it's not his most effective position on an individual level, but it is for England. He and Lampard simply don't play together in the centre of the pitch. By the by, before anyone tells me... i know McClaren played Gerrard down the right on the odd occassion, but that was as some sort of winger - which he is not. I can't really describe what sort of role Gerrard plays on the left for Capello, but it's more of a withdrawn attacker than an out-and-out winger. He's still a massive goal threat. *That's Gerrard and Lampard, it isn't even up for debate imo. Not really. I would just do what we are doing. Doesnt make it effective enough win a World Cup though. The point being that Gerrard isnt wasted but nowhere near as effective doesnt equate to the conclusion you have drawn. Understand the point you make but the assumption is wrong, I think. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mowen Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 It's the best he's ever been for England though, so it's pretty fucking effective. Like I said, build the team around him and you'll lose most of what we're currently getting from Rooney. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 Aye i see what you're saying, but (if it wasn't for the might of Spain/Brazil) i'd still disagree. For once we're playing as an actual top class team, rather than an average team with top class players. There's every chance we can do well. Far worse teams than us have gone very far in these competitions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pie Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 It's the best he's ever been for England though, so it's pretty fucking effective. Like I said, build the team around him and you'll lose most of what we're currently getting from Rooney. True, but the point is that is "the best he has been for England" and "pretty fucking effective" good enough given what we have on the other flank? Not in my opinion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 It's a real shame Joe Cole hasn't been fit for the qualifiers. If we'd found a system where Gerrard was as equally effective on the right, with Cole playing the traditional wingers role on the opposite flank, we'd be absolutely sorted. It might be a bit too late to start experimenting come the time of the World Cup, however. When's he expected to be fit? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pie Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 Aye i see what you're saying, but (if it wasn't for the might of Spain/Brazil) i'd still disagree. For once we're playing as an actual top class team, rather than an average team with top class players. There's every chance we can do well. Far worse teams than us have gone very far in these competitions. True, hence the point that we need a fair bit of luck and no passengers. Not in terms of Gerrard or Rooney etc but in terms of everyone playing in their position to optimum. I agree, England could do well and I hope they do but still got doubts. Owen Hargreaves could be a good late addition to the squad if he gets back to where he was. Not convinced about Barry in that holding role at that level really and as I mentioned I think the right side is comparitively weak. Gerrard will be fine on the left, particularly with Cole behind him. However, England need Walcott or Lennon or SWP to be effective and I have greater doubts about them than an out of position Gerrard. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pie Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 It's a real shame Joe Cole hasn't been fit for the qualifiers. If we'd found a system where Gerrard was as equally effective on the right, with Cole playing the traditional wingers role on the opposite flank, we'd be absolutely sorted. It might be a bit too late to start experimenting come the time of the World Cup, however. When's he expected to be fit? Cole is playing well for Chelsea when he has played recently, however, he is going to do a solid job out wide but he is way more effective inside, just as Gerrard is. It can work of course with A Cole and Johnson providing the width with Gerrard, J Cole tucked in. Spain seem to do well with it. Different make up to their team and balance though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 Aye the only 'problem area' i'd say, really, is the other centre-midfield role. Barry's just so so-so it's untrue. Hargreaves was exceptional in 06 but when was the last time he kicked a ball? But either way, compare that second centre-mid slot to the likes of Spain or Brazil and we're lightyears behind. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 Green Johnson Terry Ferdinand A Cole | | | Hargreaves Lampard | \|/ \|/ Gerrard J Cole Heskey Rooney Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElDiablo Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 I know the argument for Heskey, but, I can't get over the fact he's a waste of a very important position. Means we rely on Rooney and the midfield for all the goals, which I'm not comfortable with. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 Heskey's missed some major sitters in his last few games for England but it could just be a confidence issue. If he's going into the World Cup knowing he's the number 9, i wouldn't totally write him off as a goal threat. If Heskey can add goals to the vitally important role he currently performs (to an excellent standard, might i add), he could be an absolutely crucial player this tournament. Besides, in Lampard, Cole, Gerrard, Rooney, Terry - we've got regular goalscorers across the team. So personally i would feel comfortable relying on them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pie Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 Green Johnson Terry Ferdinand A Cole | | | Hargreaves Lampard | \|/ \|/ Gerrard J Cole Heskey Rooney Probably as good as it gets. Heskey isnt bad but if they concentrate on strengths rather than worrying about what they cant do then they might be ok. France used Guivarch well enough. England arent a bad side but one or two injuries and we are knackered, whilst France had, and Spain have, some exceptional players to come in. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astroblack Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 Gerrard on the right? Play players in their postions. Either Lennon, Walcott or SWP on the right with Gerrard in the center. Lampard on the bench. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 What utter nonsense. Lennon, SWP and Milner are options. Only one of those will go and compete with Gerrard and J.Cole for a place on the flanks. Italy won it with Mauro Camrogypsi on the wing man. Very redtop. Do we really need to go down the route of Arsprilla or Jeanarse? Its witless. Back to the point: Gerrard is wasted out there and not entirely comfortable! Far from it in fact. Joe Cole has been in major championships and performed adequately on the left of midfield. However, there is something inadequate about adequacy isnt there? Square pegs, round holes. Camoranesi is a right sided midfielder and considerably more gifted than the 3 mentioned. As for 'options'. That is the point. As 'specialist' wide men, Milner, SWP and Lennon are weak at international level. Gerrard and Cole could never be described as such, nor can they can be described as comfortable or specialist in that position! Once again: square pegs, round holes! Camoranesi more talented than Lennon? f***ing hell. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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