The Wise/Jimenez/Vetere AND KEVIN KEEGAN appreciation thread

[Guest Heneage]

Said from day one Wise is not to blame.

 

So that's obviously why Keegan by the end couldn't stand his guts?

So? Just because Keegan doesn't like him equates to what? He was ruining the club, the fact the fella walked out showed we are not first in his mind. I fail to see what Wise has done bar stop us getting over-rated trophy signings and securing some good young talent.

Not someone else who believed Keegan was really chasing Frank Lampard et al

 

Ok then explain something to me. How can a man who openly admitted not following Football or "Seeing a game of football" in over 3 years was supposed to know of any of the worlds young talent outside of the players at the top of the game. Its literally impossible, if you stopped following Football 3 years ago or even now you could tell me that when you returned you could draw up a list of 10 players under 26 that would improve our side and were not already a big club. To assume that Keegan had planned anything outside of major signings along the scale of Lampard (Not Lampard himself) would be crazy.

 

A top guy, a great help to establishing the club,  but in this instance just out of his depth and unwilling to admit it.

[Tooj]

Said from day one Wise is not to blame.

 

So that's obviously why Keegan by the end couldn't stand his guts?

So? Just because Keegan doesn't like him equates to what? He was ruining the club, the fact the fella walked out showed we are not first in his mind. I fail to see what Wise has done bar stop us getting over-rated trophy signings and securing some good young talent.

Not someone else who believed Keegan was really chasing Frank Lampard et al

 

Ok then explain something to me. How can a man who openly admitted not following Football or "Seeing a game of football" in over 3 years was supposed to know of any of the worlds young talent outside of the players at the top of the game. Its literally impossible, if you stopped following Football 3 years ago or even now you could tell me that when you returned you could draw up a list of 10 players under 26 that would improve our side and were not already a big club. To assume that Keegan had planned anything outside of major signings along the scale of Lampard (Not Lampard himself) would be crazy.

 

A top guy, a great help to establishing the club,  but in this instance just out of his depth and unwilling to admit it.

 

Out of his depth, absolutely hilarious. Sam Allardyce was out of his depth, not Kevin Keegan.

 

And I believe he said he'd never attended a game of football for 3 years, not actually seen one. Better than most of the people on here infact.

 

Guthrie was also Keegan's signing, so that blows your crackpot theory out of the window.

[NG32]

Said from day one Wise is not to blame.

 

So that's obviously why Keegan by the end couldn't stand his guts?

So? Just because Keegan doesn't like him equates to what? He was ruining the club, the fact the fella walked out showed we are not first in his mind. I fail to see what Wise has done bar stop us getting over-rated trophy signings and securing some good young talent.

Not someone else who believed Keegan was really chasing Frank Lampard et al

 

Ok then explain something to me. How can a man who openly admitted not following Football or "Seeing a game of football" in over 3 years was supposed to know of any of the worlds young talent outside of the players at the top of the game. Its literally impossible, if you stopped following Football 3 years ago or even now you could tell me that when you returned you could draw up a list of 10 players under 26 that would improve our side and were not already a big club. To assume that Keegan had planned anything outside of major signings along the scale of Lampard (Not Lampard himself) would be crazy.

 

A top guy, a great help to establishing the club,  but in this instance just out of his depth and unwilling to admit it.

 

KK was never out of his depth.

 

 

[Robster]

Ok then explain something to me. How can a man who openly admitted not following Football or "Seeing a game of football" in over 3 years was supposed to know of any of the worlds young talent outside of the players at the top of the game. Its literally impossible, if you stopped following Football 3 years ago or even now you could tell me that when you returned you could draw up a list of 10 players under 26 that would improve our side and were not already a big club. To assume that Keegan had planned anything outside of major signings along the scale of Lampard (Not Lampard himself) would be crazy.

 

A top guy, a great help to establishing the club, but in this instance just out of his depth and unwilling to admit it.

I am not assuming that Keegan had a broad knowledge outside the established names. Thats why I think he said he was happy for the set up to help him along. I just think the story about him handing a list over including the like of Henry, Lampard and Beckham, was put out to make him look like a deluded fool. Sadly some people seem to buy it.

 

The club were happy to bid for Modric and Woodgate and I would certianly class these as Keegan type targets so the club appear to have been happy to go for these kind of higher profile players

[Mowen]

Coloccini is our classiest since Albert tbh

 

He's not. Some fella who now plays for Spurs was much better and classier for us than Colo has been yet.

 

and Steve Howey was a better defender than Albert too

 

 

 

I agree actually, had forgotten about him. Shame injuries ruined his chance of becoming the player he had the ability to be. I'd still say Woodgate was better for us mind.

[Guest icemanblue]

Said from day one Wise is not to blame.

 

So that's obviously why Keegan by the end couldn't stand his guts?

So? Just because Keegan doesn't like him equates to what? He was ruining the club, the fact the fella walked out showed we are not first in his mind. I fail to see what Wise has done bar stop us getting over-rated trophy signings and securing some good young talent.

Not someone else who believed Keegan was really chasing Frank Lampard et al

 

Ok then explain something to me. How can a man who openly admitted not following Football or "Seeing a game of football" in over 3 years was supposed to know of any of the worlds young talent outside of the players at the top of the game. Its literally impossible, if you stopped following Football 3 years ago or even now you could tell me that when you returned you could draw up a list of 10 players under 26 that would improve our side and were not already a big club. To assume that Keegan had planned anything outside of major signings along the scale of Lampard (Not Lampard himself) would be crazy.

 

A top guy, a great help to establishing the club,  but in this instance just out of his depth and unwilling to admit it.

 

Cretin. You've got absolutely no basis for stating he was 'out of his depth', and... nah, fuck it, i'm not gonna get banned.

[NJS]

Of course this is brilliant new concept - we have never ever signed any good foreigners before the holy trinity came. I imagined Ginola, Solano, Albert, Robert and Beye - hat's off to Ashley for coming up with fantastic new idea.

 

 

 

Ooh, an entire 5 in  13 years?  There have been other good foreigners come in during that time anyway, but still ashley's regime brought in 3 alone this summer that have been outstanding.

 

 

Promising not outstanding - we've won 4 games - when they've made the difference the first 4 on that list make then we'll judge them.

 

My point was that foreign scouting/signing is nothing new. The thrust seems to be that the regime is so brilliant, so unique that its hit gold already which to me is overstating the point. Clubs have always signed foreigners with mixed results - just as this setup has (Gonzalez and Xisco being pointless)

 

[Zero]

I think the questions should be:

 

1.  Should Keegan has the ultimate power to decide the transfer issue and

2.  How to balance the power between Wise.co and Keegan

 

While you can say that it's Ashley's fault to give Wise.co too much power on transfer issues, I also believe that it would be ridiculous if Wise doesn't have the power to sign a few players because honestly Keegan doesn't have enough up-to-date knowledges on spotting cheap and youth talents, which are deadly important for a club which doesn't have Euro competition.  The fact that we have to pay way too much fees and wages for Duff / Smith etc which are overpriced (and useless) explains that we always tends to use money to attract "proven" players rather than spotting those who we really should rely on and develop at.  I can see Keegan may probably targetting these kind of players as well.

 

Colo, Jonas and Bassong has been fucking brilliant and I really cannot blame Wise.co for having the power to sign these players.  They spotted them, evaluate them correctly and get the deal done on very reasonable price (in a sense robbery for Jonas).

 

 

[Zero]

 

I am not assuming that Keegan had a broad knowledge outside the established names. Thats why I think he said he was happy for the set up to help him along. I just think the story about him handing a list over including the like of Henry, Lampard and Beckham, was put out to make him look like a deluded fool. Sadly some people seem to buy it.

 

The club were happy to bid for Modric and Woodgate and I would certianly class these as Keegan type targets so the club appear to have been happy to go for these kind of higher profile players

 

Very likely that's the case but the fact that we didn't sign any high-profile players these summer (apart from Jonas and Colo) suggest that either Keegan's targetting unrealistic players or Ashley didn't willing to spend the cash anymore.

[Minhosa]

 

I am not assuming that Keegan had a broad knowledge outside the established names. Thats why I think he said he was happy for the set up to help him along. I just think the story about him handing a list over including the like of Henry, Lampard and Beckham, was put out to make him look like a deluded fool. Sadly some people seem to buy it.

 

The club were happy to bid for Modric and Woodgate and I would certianly class these as Keegan type targets so the club appear to have been happy to go for these kind of higher profile players

 

Very likely that's the case but the fact that we didn't sign any high-profile players these summer (apart from Jonas and Colo) suggest that either Keegan's targetting unrealistic players or Ashley didn't willing to spend the cash anymore.

 

Or maybe we weren't offering them ridiculous terms anymore and hence the attraction to NUFC was less than in previous years?

[AyeDubbleYoo]

I think the questions should be:

 

1.  Should Keegan has the ultimate power to decide the transfer issue and

2.  How to balance the power between Wise.co and Keegan

 

While you can say that it's Ashley's fault to give Wise.co too much power on transfer issues, I also believe that it would be ridiculous if Wise doesn't have the power to sign a few players because honestly Keegan doesn't have enough up-to-date knowledges on spotting cheap and youth talents, which are deadly important for a club which doesn't have Euro competition.  The fact that we have to pay way too much fees and wages for Duff / Smith etc which are overpriced (and useless) explains that we always tends to use money to attract "proven" players rather than spotting those who we really should rely on and develop at.  I can see Keegan may probably targetting these kind of players as well.

 

Colo, Jonas and Bassong has been fucking brilliant and I really cannot blame Wise.co for having the power to sign these players.  They spotted them, evaluate them correctly and get the deal done on very reasonable price (in a sense robbery for Jonas).

 

 

I think the bit in bold is very important to understanding the overall breakdown of the system (and maybe its inherent flaws).

 

As you say, both Keegan and Wise/Jim/Vetere needed to be free to do their jobs, but the budget is limited and the team selection is Keegan's, so there is the biggest sticking point IMO.

[Baggio]

Said from day one Wise is not to blame.

 

So that's obviously why Keegan by the end couldn't stand his guts?

 

You know that for a fact do you?

[themanupstairs]

Said from day one Wise is not to blame.

 

So that's obviously why Keegan by the end couldn't stand his guts?

 

You know that for a fact do you?

 

Louise Taylor told us or summat

[UV]

Said from day one Wise is not to blame.

 

So that's obviously why Keegan by the end couldn't stand his guts?

So? Just because Keegan doesn't like him equates to what? He was ruining the club, the fact the fella walked out showed we are not first in his mind. I fail to see what Wise has done bar stop us getting over-rated trophy signings and securing some good young talent.

 

Well yes...that's the point, it's quite good that he's done those things

 

 

 

How does Coloccini not qualify as a "trophy signing" btw?

 

He cost more than others who have this label.

He'll be on a very decent wage.

He came from a decent club in a major league.

He's an Argentinian international.

He's probably currently in his prime years.

 

I really can't seem to pin down this definition.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

He's class, and we needed him.

[UV]

Said from day one Wise is not to blame.

 

So that's obviously why Keegan by the end couldn't stand his guts?

So? Just because Keegan doesn't like him equates to what? He was ruining the club, the fact the fella walked out showed we are not first in his mind. I fail to see what Wise has done bar stop us getting over-rated trophy signings and securing some good young talent.

Not someone else who believed Keegan was really chasing Frank Lampard et al

 

Ok then explain something to me. How can a man who openly admitted not following Football or "Seeing a game of football" in over 3 years was supposed to know of any of the worlds young talent outside of the players at the top of the game. Its literally impossible, if you stopped following Football 3 years ago or even now you could tell me that when you returned you could draw up a list of 10 players under 26 that would improve our side and were not already a big club. To assume that Keegan had planned anything outside of major signings along the scale of Lampard (Not Lampard himself) would be crazy.

 

A top guy, a great help to establishing the club,  but in this instance just out of his depth and unwilling to admit it.

 

If Keegan not watching a live game for 3 years makes him out of touch, what makes Wise who has been involved in lower league football for just as long such an expert on worlds young talent? Was he out personally scouting them for Leeds?

[NJS]

If Keegan not watching a live game for 3 years makes him out of touch, what makes Wise who has been involved in lower league football for just as long such an expert on worlds young talent? Was he out personally scouting them for Leeds?

 

Add to that a property developer.

 

 

 

[Tooj]

Said from day one Wise is not to blame.

 

So that's obviously why Keegan by the end couldn't stand his guts?

 

You know that for a fact do you?

 

I have no reason not to believe what I've been told.

[Tooj]

Said from day one Wise is not to blame.

 

So that's obviously why Keegan by the end couldn't stand his guts?

 

You know that for a fact do you?

 

Louise Taylor told us or summat

 

Once again your maturity holds no bounds.

[Baggio]

Said from day one Wise is not to blame.

 

So that's obviously why Keegan by the end couldn't stand his guts?

 

You know that for a fact do you?

 

I have no reason not to believe what I've been told.

 

But you've got no proof it's true either, which is what you ask everyone else for when they pass comment about something that you don't agree with.

[Tooj]

Said from day one Wise is not to blame.

 

So that's obviously why Keegan by the end couldn't stand his guts?

 

You know that for a fact do you?

 

I have no reason not to believe what I've been told.

 

But you've got no proof it's true either, which is what you ask everyone else for when they pass comment about something that you don't agree with.

 

Actually you'll find I've said that we have to go on who we can trust over all of this, and as I've said several times in the past Mike Ashley and the rest of them haven't proven a thing to myself that they are more worthy of my backing over Kevin Keegan. Not one thing.

 

I still hold Chris Mort in extreme high regard though.

[Tooj]

I fully expect you to reel up something I've posted in the past on this btw like you usually do.

[Tooj]

Can I just say btw that the Bassong transfer is exactly how the system should have worked, scouts go out and identify a player, inform the manager they've secured a trial for him, the manager then looks at him during the trial period and then has the final say on this. That's how it should have been.

[Baggio]

I fully expect you to reel up something I've posted in the past on this btw like you usually do.

 

Like you were going to do yesterday about Ferdinand?

 

I know when someone's trying to lead me down the garden path, tooj.

[Tooj]

I fully expect you to reel up something I've posted in the past on this btw like you usually do.

 

Like you were going to do yesterday about Ferdinand?

 

I know when someone's trying to lead me down the garden path, tooj.

 

I wasn't actually. Wasn't aware that you were aware of the Ferdinand rumours around that time.