oldtype Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 I think everyone's aware that we're just one of the dozens of clubs who mostly populate the lower ranks of the Premiership, occasionally piece together a jammy European run, and provide talent for the 5~6 teams at the top. No need to over-dramatize it, that's just what most Premiership clubs are right now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Loven11 Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Will be interesting to see what the texts say. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 I think this situation is worse though, because we thought Carroll understood how important NUFC was to the fans and he loved the club himself. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Liverpool are yesterday's Villa. Throwing good money after bad in a desperate hope to reclaim past glories. Smells like Shepherd's last years in charge to me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JH Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 This has been a wake-up call for many younger fans - esp on this forum. Newcastle United's place in the scheme of things has been well and truly shown for what it is - a middle-ranking football club with an interesting history and a larger than average set of fans. Those of us who have seen this kind of thing many times before will not be surprised - disappointed that the club have no ambition, but we all knew the policies Ashley has brought to the club. Those blaming Carroll ought to get their heads out of their backsides - does anyone seriously think that he put in a transfer request without the knowledge of both NUFC and Liverpool ? If so, there must be fairies at the bottom of your garden, visible to only you....the transfer request was made so that it looked as if NUFC had made a serious effort not to sell. I am not saying the player didn't want to go - would YOU turn down the chance of instant millions and to be signed by a famous club who have just been taken over and demonstrated(by signing Suarez AND Carroll) that they want success..?? Or would you stay at a club where you don't know what's going to happen from day to day and where the owner has made so many bad decisions that you know there is little chance of success ?? Had it been NUFC trying to sign Suarez or Torres, do you seriously think that Carroll would have 'put in a transfer request'..? The lad is not blameless but he knows full well that the club is going NOWHERE, and now, so do the fans. The list of outgoings from SJP - esp to Liverpool - over the years reads like an International 11 ; Albert Stubbins(1940s), Terry McDermott(1974), Alan Kennedy(1978), Peter Beardsley(1987) and now, Andy Carroll, 2011. We have also had Pop Robson(Transfer Req)1971, Malcolm Macdonald, 1976, Tommy Craig/Irving Nattrass,1978,Chris Waddle, 1985 and Paul Gascoigne, 1988. The only period that NUFC DIDN'T have to sell its best players(and indeed, was one of the main buyers in the market)was between 1993 and 1997...even the likes of Hamman wanted away in 98 after Gullit took over. All the players named above were at their peak or still to reach it with the exception of Nattrass who had taken several major injuries - and most of them were 'Geordies' who, according to the starry-eyed on here would never leave the club...FAT CHANCE. Football is a dirty business - even more so today. Money has ruined it and unless you have rich benefactors who are willing to invest and compete, you are going nowhere. Its not a happy scenario, but that's what you have. As far as we can see, there has been no replacement or any other major signing - the club is not out of the woods yet, and even if we stay up, I wonder how they think they are going to be able to attract decent forwards with Ashley's wage structure etc. Welcome to the world of NUFC - those of us long in the tooth have seen it all before ; sell your best players and you are mediocre and, worse than that, SEEN to be by the football world. We had our chance in the 90s and blew it. Carroll won't be the last...watch this space. I'm getting sick of asking the same question again and again, why would Carroll agree to it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 The fact is though with the amount of money we draw in from TV and Gate receipts we should be able to compete for europe eventually. I've said this, Liverpool are not much better off than us in terms of 1st team squad. Granted they have a better strike force now, their defence is woeful and think we have the better midfield when ben arfa is back. They'll still be lucky to qualify for EL this season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiquidAK Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 I think this situation is worse though, because we thought Carroll understood how important NUFC was to the fans and he loved the club himself. Yep, he was supposed to get it. To understand what it meant to wear the number nine. Shearer was his hero! He doesn't have a fraction of the loyalty Al had. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dokko Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Got a feeling VI has spent his night filling in several Spanish forums in as to who Andy Carroll is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 There's no reason I can think of Jonny, if the transfer request is fact then there's no way Carroll would submit it unless he genuinely wanted to go to Liverpool. Merlin has done a good job explaining why he might have wanted to go, but the fact remains he must have wanted it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUICE690 Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Can we still get a loan player in? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robster Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Any chance that Carroll's head has been turned at all during his short time with the England squad ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 This has been a wake-up call for many younger fans - esp on this forum. Newcastle United's place in the scheme of things has been well and truly shown for what it is - a middle-ranking football club with an interesting history and a larger than average set of fans. Those of us who have seen this kind of thing many times before will not be surprised - disappointed that the club have no ambition, but we all knew the policies Ashley has brought to the club. Those blaming Carroll ought to get their heads out of their backsides - does anyone seriously think that he put in a transfer request without the knowledge of both NUFC and Liverpool ? If so, there must be fairies at the bottom of your garden, visible to only you....the transfer request was made so that it looked as if NUFC had made a serious effort not to sell. I am not saying the player didn't want to go - would YOU turn down the chance of instant millions and to be signed by a famous club who have just been taken over and demonstrated(by signing Suarez AND Carroll) that they want success..?? Or would you stay at a club where you don't know what's going to happen from day to day and where the owner has made so many bad decisions that you know there is little chance of success ?? Had it been NUFC trying to sign Suarez or Torres, do you seriously think that Carroll would have 'put in a transfer request'..? The lad is not blameless but he knows full well that the club is going NOWHERE, and now, so do the fans. The list of outgoings from SJP - esp to Liverpool - over the years reads like an International 11 ; Albert Stubbins(1940s), Terry McDermott(1974), Alan Kennedy(1978), Peter Beardsley(1987) and now, Andy Carroll, 2011. We have also had Pop Robson(Transfer Req)1971, Malcolm Macdonald, 1976, Tommy Craig/Irving Nattrass,1978,Chris Waddle, 1985 and Paul Gascoigne, 1988. The only period that NUFC DIDN'T have to sell its best players(and indeed, was one of the main buyers in the market)was between 1993 and 1997...even the likes of Hamman wanted away in 98 after Gullit took over. All the players named above were at their peak or still to reach it with the exception of Nattrass who had taken several major injuries - and most of them were 'Geordies' who, according to the starry-eyed on here would never leave the club...FAT CHANCE. Football is a dirty business - even more so today. Money has ruined it and unless you have rich benefactors who are willing to invest and compete, you are going nowhere. Its not a happy scenario, but that's what you have. As far as we can see, there has been no replacement or any other major signing - the club is not out of the woods yet, and even if we stay up, I wonder how they think they are going to be able to attract decent forwards with Ashley's wage structure etc. Welcome to the world of NUFC - those of us long in the tooth have seen it all before ; sell your best players and you are mediocre and, worse than that, SEEN to be by the football world. We had our chance in the 90s and blew it. Carroll won't be the last...watch this space. I'm getting sick of asking the same question again and again, why would Carroll agree to it? Exactly, the transfer request is what does not make any sense. It would instantly make him look the innocent party if he hadn't handed one in, and the player holds all of the power these days in deals. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtype Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 The fact is though with the amount of money we draw in from TV and Gate receipts we should be able to compete for europe eventually. I've said this, Liverpool are not much better off than us in terms of 1st team squad. Granted they have a better strike force now, their defence is woeful and think we have the better midfield when ben arfa is back. They'll still be lucky to qualify for EL this season. It's not really about the first team squad or gate receipts anymore. It's all about brand value. You need to be one of those clubs where the media and just the general footballing culture will hype you up as one of the "big boys." No matter what our relative league positions are, Liverpool FC will always be a more attractive proposition than NUFC assuming that we are in the same division. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdckelly Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Can we still get a loan player in? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theregulars Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 As if Kenny Dalglish didn't fuck this club over once before by selling our best players and turning us from champions league material to mid-table dickrot. Fucking hate that guy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Any chance that Carroll's head has been turned at all during his short time with the England squad ? Would not surprise me, considering the conversations will be all about who has the flashiest car etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
J7 Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 The fact is though with the amount of money we draw in from TV and Gate receipts we should be able to compete for europe eventually. I've said this, Liverpool are not much better off than us in terms of 1st team squad. Granted they have a better strike force now, their defence is woeful and think we have the better midfield when ben arfa is back. They'll still be lucky to qualify for EL this season. Thats what gets me. Its all about mentality. I agree with Merlin, and Alex Ferguson who has said similar (Newcastle always sell their best players), but I don't see why it needs to be the case. We were on par with Liverpool in 2004 with pretty similar resources. They went forward, we went back. All about decisions made at the top. So frustrating. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
indi Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Got a feeling VI has spent his night filling in several Spanish forums in as to who Andy Carroll is. Surely they should already know the name of the global mega-star who commanded the 8th highest fee of all time! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 I think everyone's aware that we're just one of the dozens of clubs who mostly populate the lower ranks of the Premiership, occasionally piece together a jammy European run, and provide talent for the 5~6 teams at the top. No need to over-dramatize it, that's just what most Premiership clubs are right now. We shouldn't be, that's the point. Our ambition should match our size, income and fanbase. We're a team that should always be aiming to be the very best that it can be. We're no different to any other team, except that our income, fanbase and size should put us near the top 1/3rd of the league. Obviously it's not an ideal world, and Abramovich has changed all of that, but we should be looking to be a progressive, aspiring and ambitious club. Anyone getting their hands on us would have an absolute goldmine of potential success, adulation, undying loyalty, income and undoubted fun. We get called deluded, but f*** it, I've lived elsewhere, in this country and abroad, and I have never come across anywhere remotely like Newcastle when it comes to just how much football means to a city and it's people. Don't tell me not to over-dramatise it, we're Newcastle United, not f***ing Blackburn Rovers. Thanks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 The fact is though with the amount of money we draw in from TV and Gate receipts we should be able to compete for europe eventually. I've said this, Liverpool are not much better off than us in terms of 1st team squad. Granted they have a better strike force now, their defence is woeful and think we have the better midfield when ben arfa is back. They'll still be lucky to qualify for EL this season. unless ashley wants to take some monies back out. if not then this summer, if we survive in the prem, and the carroll monies on top ought to see us spending. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 The fact is though with the amount of money we draw in from TV and Gate receipts we should be able to compete for europe eventually. I've said this, Liverpool are not much better off than us in terms of 1st team squad. Granted they have a better strike force now, their defence is woeful and think we have the better midfield when ben arfa is back. They'll still be lucky to qualify for EL this season. Thats what gets me. Its all about mentality. I agree with Merlin, and Alex Ferguson who has said similar (Newcastle always sell their best players), but I don't see why it needs to be the case. We were on par with Liverpool in 2004 with pretty similar resources. They went forward, we went back. All about decisions made at the top. So frustrating. We nearly spent our way to the title a couple of times, it's just that it turned out not to be sustainable and Shepherd bailed out and left us with Ashley. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinny Green Balls Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 or continuing our homeless policy of sifting through the garbage for players. It won't work forever. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 I think this situation is worse though, because we thought Carroll understood how important NUFC was to the fans and he loved the club himself. Yep, he was supposed to get it. To understand what it meant to wear the number nine. Shearer was his hero! He doesn't have a fraction of the loyalty Al had. Piss off man. Shearer milked us far worse and was a busted flush who didn't have any other interested suitors after he came here. He was Kevin Nolan playing up front by the time he got here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 or continuing our homeless policy of sifting through the garbage for players. It won't work forever. Neither would the previous policy of spraying money about on overpriced and declining wasters TBF. There has to be a happy medium somewhere! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtype Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 I think everyone's aware that we're just one of the dozens of clubs who mostly populate the lower ranks of the Premiership, occasionally piece together a jammy European run, and provide talent for the 5~6 teams at the top. No need to over-dramatize it, that's just what most Premiership clubs are right now. We shouldn't be, that's the point. Our ambition should match our size, income and fanbase. We're a team that should always be aiming to be the very best that it can be. We're no different to any other team, except that our income, fanbase and size should put us near the top 1/3rd of the league. Obviously it's not an ideal world, and Abramovich has changed all of that, but we should be looking to be a progressive, aspiring and ambitious club. Anyone getting their hands on us would have an absolute goldmine of potential success, adulation, undying loyalty, income and undoubted fun. We get called deluded, but f*** it, I've lived elsewhere, in this country and abroad, and I have never come across anywhere remotely like Newcastle when it comes to just how much football means to a city and it's people. Don't tell me not to over-dramatise it, we're Newcastle United, we're not f***ing Blackburn. Thanks. It's not really about the first team squad or gate receipts anymore. It's all about brand value. You need to be one of those clubs where the media and just the general footballing culture will hype you up as one of the "big boys." No matter what our relative league positions are, Liverpool FC will always be a more attractive proposition than NUFC assuming that we are in the same division. Like I said, brand value. There is a cultural glass ceiling at the top of the Premiership that is far more resilient than any gap in financial capabilities. Due to the fact that we acted like fucking idiots precisely at the moment when it was being defined, we're firmly on the wrong side of it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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