madras Posted December 29, 2008 Share Posted December 29, 2008 Butt vs Gerrard today was the biggest mis-match I think I've ever seen in football. wasn't exactly a one on one as gerrard played between their midfield and attack....hate to say it but a masterclass in MOVEMENT from gerrard today Wasn't actually a one on one as Butt didn't get near him all afternoon. neither'd guthrie,coloccini,taylor,n'zogbia,geremi,gutierrez..........why make it butt only ? Because I f***ing hate him And he was exactly the same at Wigan on Friday. I'm a tad more objective. i thought guthrie was woeful on and off the ball aswell, had lots of chances to break forward but held back forcing either butt forward or isolating the forwards. duff was more dynamic than n'zogbia,enrique has no confidence,owen was anonymous,given could have held two of them saves.....i could go on I'd agree with all of that, but Butt is a week in week out problem now. He had to go some to be worse than he was on Friday at Wigan, but he managed to achieve it. He is only ever a good defensive midfielder when we're playing well, when we need him to be holding the midfield together when under pressure he's one of the first to disappear out of the game. The only time you then notice him is when he's repeatedly giving the ball back to the opposition playing simple 5 yard passes. maybe he'd be a better defensive midfielder if he was allowed to do just that as opposed to doing guthries (gooad games against pompey and spurs aside) work trying to get a little bit further forward ? Butt struggles to play the simplest of passes though. Not sure how many passes he completed today but I can't remember many. His legs have gone too and he tires badly too imo. Guthrie isn't the answer either but he shows a bit of drive from time to time. The sooner Barton's back the better and I never thought I'd say that often. butts pasing was equal to most for us today...it was that bad. he shouldn't need the legs,guthrie shouldn't be forcing him forward. 2 new centre mids may be too much to ask but bartona and 1 other please. if only to get to the end of the season. If you're starting a Premiership game in CM then you need legs. Possession changes hands that often and the tempo is so high that getting about the park is paramount in CM. His legs have gone which means he can't get up and down or tackle cleanly anymore. When the ball breaks to him he invariably gives it straight back. He can't track runners from midfield and provides nothing going forward. He's a f***ing liability and the sooner the ginger c*** is out of the door the better. There, I've said it. i agree to a point......why dont you say the same about guthrie who has been equally as bad....worse if you think he should have more legs. I don't think Guthrie has been as bad though. He hasn't been great but I think he keeps possession better and offers more going forward than Butt does. I'm not trying to make him out as being another Vieira but Butt is going to get slower and less mobile as time goes on. Ideally the club will bring in someone to partner Barton in there as you say, but until that happens then Guthrie deserves is spot over Butt every day of the week. Imo obviously. i don't see much of a difference between butt and guthrie. in fact the only difference is that butt takes more blame,he's the whipping boy and guthrie is riding anonymously by Fair enough. I think Butt's been, by and large, shocking this season. Guthrie has time on his side and is worth having in the squad. He should improve. Butt will only get (even) worse/slower. i agree about butt,but i think guthrie has been equally as bad and has shown little to make me think he'll get better. least of all any sort of leadership when he makes the likes of butt go forward cos he wont Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
midds Posted December 29, 2008 Share Posted December 29, 2008 Butt vs Gerrard today was the biggest mis-match I think I've ever seen in football. wasn't exactly a one on one as gerrard played between their midfield and attack....hate to say it but a masterclass in MOVEMENT from gerrard today Wasn't actually a one on one as Butt didn't get near him all afternoon. neither'd guthrie,coloccini,taylor,n'zogbia,geremi,gutierrez..........why make it butt only ? Because I f***ing hate him And he was exactly the same at Wigan on Friday. I'm a tad more objective. i thought guthrie was woeful on and off the ball aswell, had lots of chances to break forward but held back forcing either butt forward or isolating the forwards. duff was more dynamic than n'zogbia,enrique has no confidence,owen was anonymous,given could have held two of them saves.....i could go on I'd agree with all of that, but Butt is a week in week out problem now. He had to go some to be worse than he was on Friday at Wigan, but he managed to achieve it. He is only ever a good defensive midfielder when we're playing well, when we need him to be holding the midfield together when under pressure he's one of the first to disappear out of the game. The only time you then notice him is when he's repeatedly giving the ball back to the opposition playing simple 5 yard passes. maybe he'd be a better defensive midfielder if he was allowed to do just that as opposed to doing guthries (gooad games against pompey and spurs aside) work trying to get a little bit further forward ? Butt struggles to play the simplest of passes though. Not sure how many passes he completed today but I can't remember many. His legs have gone too and he tires badly too imo. Guthrie isn't the answer either but he shows a bit of drive from time to time. The sooner Barton's back the better and I never thought I'd say that often. butts pasing was equal to most for us today...it was that bad. he shouldn't need the legs,guthrie shouldn't be forcing him forward. 2 new centre mids may be too much to ask but bartona and 1 other please. if only to get to the end of the season. If you're starting a Premiership game in CM then you need legs. Possession changes hands that often and the tempo is so high that getting about the park is paramount in CM. His legs have gone which means he can't get up and down or tackle cleanly anymore. When the ball breaks to him he invariably gives it straight back. He can't track runners from midfield and provides nothing going forward. He's a f***ing liability and the sooner the ginger c*** is out of the door the better. There, I've said it. i agree to a point......why dont you say the same about guthrie who has been equally as bad....worse if you think he should have more legs. I don't think Guthrie has been as bad though. He hasn't been great but I think he keeps possession better and offers more going forward than Butt does. I'm not trying to make him out as being another Vieira but Butt is going to get slower and less mobile as time goes on. Ideally the club will bring in someone to partner Barton in there as you say, but until that happens then Guthrie deserves is spot over Butt every day of the week. Imo obviously. i don't see much of a difference between butt and guthrie. in fact the only difference is that butt takes more blame,he's the whipping boy and guthrie is riding anonymously by Fair enough. I think Butt's been, by and large, shocking this season. Guthrie has time on his side and is worth having in the squad. He should improve. Butt will only get (even) worse/slower. i agree about butt,but i think guthrie has been equally as bad and has shown little to make me think he'll get better. least of all any sort of leadership when he makes the likes of butt go forward cos he wont We disagree chap. At this moment in time I think Guthrie, for all his faults, is a better option than Butt in the middle of the park. Guthrie should, in theory, get better whereas Butt has been on the way down for years now. I'd concede that Guthrie at his peak probably won't be as good as Butt was at his peak. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted December 29, 2008 Share Posted December 29, 2008 Butt vs Gerrard today was the biggest mis-match I think I've ever seen in football. wasn't exactly a one on one as gerrard played between their midfield and attack....hate to say it but a masterclass in MOVEMENT from gerrard today Wasn't actually a one on one as Butt didn't get near him all afternoon. neither'd guthrie,coloccini,taylor,n'zogbia,geremi,gutierrez..........why make it butt only ? Because I f***ing hate him And he was exactly the same at Wigan on Friday. I'm a tad more objective. i thought guthrie was woeful on and off the ball aswell, had lots of chances to break forward but held back forcing either butt forward or isolating the forwards. duff was more dynamic than n'zogbia,enrique has no confidence,owen was anonymous,given could have held two of them saves.....i could go on I'd agree with all of that, but Butt is a week in week out problem now. He had to go some to be worse than he was on Friday at Wigan, but he managed to achieve it. He is only ever a good defensive midfielder when we're playing well, when we need him to be holding the midfield together when under pressure he's one of the first to disappear out of the game. The only time you then notice him is when he's repeatedly giving the ball back to the opposition playing simple 5 yard passes. maybe he'd be a better defensive midfielder if he was allowed to do just that as opposed to doing guthries (gooad games against pompey and spurs aside) work trying to get a little bit further forward ? Butt struggles to play the simplest of passes though. Not sure how many passes he completed today but I can't remember many. His legs have gone too and he tires badly too imo. Guthrie isn't the answer either but he shows a bit of drive from time to time. The sooner Barton's back the better and I never thought I'd say that often. butts pasing was equal to most for us today...it was that bad. he shouldn't need the legs,guthrie shouldn't be forcing him forward. 2 new centre mids may be too much to ask but bartona and 1 other please. if only to get to the end of the season. If you're starting a Premiership game in CM then you need legs. Possession changes hands that often and the tempo is so high that getting about the park is paramount in CM. His legs have gone which means he can't get up and down or tackle cleanly anymore. When the ball breaks to him he invariably gives it straight back. He can't track runners from midfield and provides nothing going forward. He's a f***ing liability and the sooner the ginger c*** is out of the door the better. There, I've said it. i agree to a point......why dont you say the same about guthrie who has been equally as bad....worse if you think he should have more legs. I don't think Guthrie has been as bad though. He hasn't been great but I think he keeps possession better and offers more going forward than Butt does. I'm not trying to make him out as being another Vieira but Butt is going to get slower and less mobile as time goes on. Ideally the club will bring in someone to partner Barton in there as you say, but until that happens then Guthrie deserves is spot over Butt every day of the week. Imo obviously. i don't see much of a difference between butt and guthrie. in fact the only difference is that butt takes more blame,he's the whipping boy and guthrie is riding anonymously by Fair enough. I think Butt's been, by and large, shocking this season. Guthrie has time on his side and is worth having in the squad. He should improve. Butt will only get (even) worse/slower. i agree about butt,but i think guthrie has been equally as bad and has shown little to make me think he'll get better. least of all any sort of leadership when he makes the likes of butt go forward cos he wont We disagree chap. At this moment in time I think Guthrie, for all his faults, is a better option than Butt in the middle of the park. Guthrie should, in theory, get better whereas Butt has been on the way down for years now. I'd concede that Guthrie at his peak probably won't be as good as Butt was at his peak. i see no reason to think this isn't guthrie at his peak Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
midds Posted December 29, 2008 Share Posted December 29, 2008 Butt vs Gerrard today was the biggest mis-match I think I've ever seen in football. wasn't exactly a one on one as gerrard played between their midfield and attack....hate to say it but a masterclass in MOVEMENT from gerrard today Wasn't actually a one on one as Butt didn't get near him all afternoon. neither'd guthrie,coloccini,taylor,n'zogbia,geremi,gutierrez..........why make it butt only ? Because I f***ing hate him And he was exactly the same at Wigan on Friday. I'm a tad more objective. i thought guthrie was woeful on and off the ball aswell, had lots of chances to break forward but held back forcing either butt forward or isolating the forwards. duff was more dynamic than n'zogbia,enrique has no confidence,owen was anonymous,given could have held two of them saves.....i could go on I'd agree with all of that, but Butt is a week in week out problem now. He had to go some to be worse than he was on Friday at Wigan, but he managed to achieve it. He is only ever a good defensive midfielder when we're playing well, when we need him to be holding the midfield together when under pressure he's one of the first to disappear out of the game. The only time you then notice him is when he's repeatedly giving the ball back to the opposition playing simple 5 yard passes. maybe he'd be a better defensive midfielder if he was allowed to do just that as opposed to doing guthries (gooad games against pompey and spurs aside) work trying to get a little bit further forward ? Butt struggles to play the simplest of passes though. Not sure how many passes he completed today but I can't remember many. His legs have gone too and he tires badly too imo. Guthrie isn't the answer either but he shows a bit of drive from time to time. The sooner Barton's back the better and I never thought I'd say that often. butts pasing was equal to most for us today...it was that bad. he shouldn't need the legs,guthrie shouldn't be forcing him forward. 2 new centre mids may be too much to ask but bartona and 1 other please. if only to get to the end of the season. If you're starting a Premiership game in CM then you need legs. Possession changes hands that often and the tempo is so high that getting about the park is paramount in CM. His legs have gone which means he can't get up and down or tackle cleanly anymore. When the ball breaks to him he invariably gives it straight back. He can't track runners from midfield and provides nothing going forward. He's a f***ing liability and the sooner the ginger c*** is out of the door the better. There, I've said it. i agree to a point......why dont you say the same about guthrie who has been equally as bad....worse if you think he should have more legs. I don't think Guthrie has been as bad though. He hasn't been great but I think he keeps possession better and offers more going forward than Butt does. I'm not trying to make him out as being another Vieira but Butt is going to get slower and less mobile as time goes on. Ideally the club will bring in someone to partner Barton in there as you say, but until that happens then Guthrie deserves is spot over Butt every day of the week. Imo obviously. i don't see much of a difference between butt and guthrie. in fact the only difference is that butt takes more blame,he's the whipping boy and guthrie is riding anonymously by Fair enough. I think Butt's been, by and large, shocking this season. Guthrie has time on his side and is worth having in the squad. He should improve. Butt will only get (even) worse/slower. i agree about butt,but i think guthrie has been equally as bad and has shown little to make me think he'll get better. least of all any sort of leadership when he makes the likes of butt go forward cos he wont We disagree chap. At this moment in time I think Guthrie, for all his faults, is a better option than Butt in the middle of the park. Guthrie should, in theory, get better whereas Butt has been on the way down for years now. I'd concede that Guthrie at his peak probably won't be as good as Butt was at his peak. i see no reason to think this isn't guthrie at his peak Ok. Given the choice: Barton & Butt or Barton & Guthrie who do you go with? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted December 29, 2008 Share Posted December 29, 2008 Butt vs Gerrard today was the biggest mis-match I think I've ever seen in football. wasn't exactly a one on one as gerrard played between their midfield and attack....hate to say it but a masterclass in MOVEMENT from gerrard today Wasn't actually a one on one as Butt didn't get near him all afternoon. neither'd guthrie,coloccini,taylor,n'zogbia,geremi,gutierrez..........why make it butt only ? Because I f***ing hate him And he was exactly the same at Wigan on Friday. I'm a tad more objective. i thought guthrie was woeful on and off the ball aswell, had lots of chances to break forward but held back forcing either butt forward or isolating the forwards. duff was more dynamic than n'zogbia,enrique has no confidence,owen was anonymous,given could have held two of them saves.....i could go on I'd agree with all of that, but Butt is a week in week out problem now. He had to go some to be worse than he was on Friday at Wigan, but he managed to achieve it. He is only ever a good defensive midfielder when we're playing well, when we need him to be holding the midfield together when under pressure he's one of the first to disappear out of the game. The only time you then notice him is when he's repeatedly giving the ball back to the opposition playing simple 5 yard passes. maybe he'd be a better defensive midfielder if he was allowed to do just that as opposed to doing guthries (gooad games against pompey and spurs aside) work trying to get a little bit further forward ? Butt struggles to play the simplest of passes though. Not sure how many passes he completed today but I can't remember many. His legs have gone too and he tires badly too imo. Guthrie isn't the answer either but he shows a bit of drive from time to time. The sooner Barton's back the better and I never thought I'd say that often. butts pasing was equal to most for us today...it was that bad. he shouldn't need the legs,guthrie shouldn't be forcing him forward. 2 new centre mids may be too much to ask but bartona and 1 other please. if only to get to the end of the season. If you're starting a Premiership game in CM then you need legs. Possession changes hands that often and the tempo is so high that getting about the park is paramount in CM. His legs have gone which means he can't get up and down or tackle cleanly anymore. When the ball breaks to him he invariably gives it straight back. He can't track runners from midfield and provides nothing going forward. He's a f***ing liability and the sooner the ginger c*** is out of the door the better. There, I've said it. i agree to a point......why dont you say the same about guthrie who has been equally as bad....worse if you think he should have more legs. I don't think Guthrie has been as bad though. He hasn't been great but I think he keeps possession better and offers more going forward than Butt does. I'm not trying to make him out as being another Vieira but Butt is going to get slower and less mobile as time goes on. Ideally the club will bring in someone to partner Barton in there as you say, but until that happens then Guthrie deserves is spot over Butt every day of the week. Imo obviously. i don't see much of a difference between butt and guthrie. in fact the only difference is that butt takes more blame,he's the whipping boy and guthrie is riding anonymously by Fair enough. I think Butt's been, by and large, shocking this season. Guthrie has time on his side and is worth having in the squad. He should improve. Butt will only get (even) worse/slower. i agree about butt,but i think guthrie has been equally as bad and has shown little to make me think he'll get better. least of all any sort of leadership when he makes the likes of butt go forward cos he wont We disagree chap. At this moment in time I think Guthrie, for all his faults, is a better option than Butt in the middle of the park. Guthrie should, in theory, get better whereas Butt has been on the way down for years now. I'd concede that Guthrie at his peak probably won't be as good as Butt was at his peak. i see no reason to think this isn't guthrie at his peak Ok. Given the choice: Barton & Butt or Barton & Guthrie who do you go with? barton and butt. allowing barton to get forward,till summer and getting someone else in. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted December 29, 2008 Share Posted December 29, 2008 barton and butt. allowing barton to get forward,till summer and getting someone else in. Butt isn't good enough, Guthrie is more use than him and I don't think Guthrie is as good as some people think. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
midds Posted December 29, 2008 Share Posted December 29, 2008 Butt vs Gerrard today was the biggest mis-match I think I've ever seen in football. wasn't exactly a one on one as gerrard played between their midfield and attack....hate to say it but a masterclass in MOVEMENT from gerrard today Wasn't actually a one on one as Butt didn't get near him all afternoon. neither'd guthrie,coloccini,taylor,n'zogbia,geremi,gutierrez..........why make it butt only ? Because I f***ing hate him And he was exactly the same at Wigan on Friday. I'm a tad more objective. i thought guthrie was woeful on and off the ball aswell, had lots of chances to break forward but held back forcing either butt forward or isolating the forwards. duff was more dynamic than n'zogbia,enrique has no confidence,owen was anonymous,given could have held two of them saves.....i could go on I'd agree with all of that, but Butt is a week in week out problem now. He had to go some to be worse than he was on Friday at Wigan, but he managed to achieve it. He is only ever a good defensive midfielder when we're playing well, when we need him to be holding the midfield together when under pressure he's one of the first to disappear out of the game. The only time you then notice him is when he's repeatedly giving the ball back to the opposition playing simple 5 yard passes. maybe he'd be a better defensive midfielder if he was allowed to do just that as opposed to doing guthries (gooad games against pompey and spurs aside) work trying to get a little bit further forward ? Butt struggles to play the simplest of passes though. Not sure how many passes he completed today but I can't remember many. His legs have gone too and he tires badly too imo. Guthrie isn't the answer either but he shows a bit of drive from time to time. The sooner Barton's back the better and I never thought I'd say that often. butts pasing was equal to most for us today...it was that bad. he shouldn't need the legs,guthrie shouldn't be forcing him forward. 2 new centre mids may be too much to ask but bartona and 1 other please. if only to get to the end of the season. If you're starting a Premiership game in CM then you need legs. Possession changes hands that often and the tempo is so high that getting about the park is paramount in CM. His legs have gone which means he can't get up and down or tackle cleanly anymore. When the ball breaks to him he invariably gives it straight back. He can't track runners from midfield and provides nothing going forward. He's a f***ing liability and the sooner the ginger c*** is out of the door the better. There, I've said it. i agree to a point......why dont you say the same about guthrie who has been equally as bad....worse if you think he should have more legs. I don't think Guthrie has been as bad though. He hasn't been great but I think he keeps possession better and offers more going forward than Butt does. I'm not trying to make him out as being another Vieira but Butt is going to get slower and less mobile as time goes on. Ideally the club will bring in someone to partner Barton in there as you say, but until that happens then Guthrie deserves is spot over Butt every day of the week. Imo obviously. i don't see much of a difference between butt and guthrie. in fact the only difference is that butt takes more blame,he's the whipping boy and guthrie is riding anonymously by Fair enough. I think Butt's been, by and large, shocking this season. Guthrie has time on his side and is worth having in the squad. He should improve. Butt will only get (even) worse/slower. i agree about butt,but i think guthrie has been equally as bad and has shown little to make me think he'll get better. least of all any sort of leadership when he makes the likes of butt go forward cos he wont We disagree chap. At this moment in time I think Guthrie, for all his faults, is a better option than Butt in the middle of the park. Guthrie should, in theory, get better whereas Butt has been on the way down for years now. I'd concede that Guthrie at his peak probably won't be as good as Butt was at his peak. i see no reason to think this isn't guthrie at his peak Ok. Given the choice: Barton & Butt or Barton & Guthrie who do you go with? barton and butt. allowing barton to get forward,till summer and getting someone else in. I don't agree but there you go. I do think we need to spend a bit on a better CM asap though. Maybe Bullard? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest toonlass Posted December 29, 2008 Share Posted December 29, 2008 Butt vs Gerrard today was the biggest mis-match I think I've ever seen in football. wasn't exactly a one on one as gerrard played between their midfield and attack....hate to say it but a masterclass in MOVEMENT from gerrard today Wasn't actually a one on one as Butt didn't get near him all afternoon. neither'd guthrie,coloccini,taylor,n'zogbia,geremi,gutierrez..........why make it butt only ? Because I f***ing hate him And he was exactly the same at Wigan on Friday. I'm a tad more objective. i thought guthrie was woeful on and off the ball aswell, had lots of chances to break forward but held back forcing either butt forward or isolating the forwards. duff was more dynamic than n'zogbia,enrique has no confidence,owen was anonymous,given could have held two of them saves.....i could go on I'd agree with all of that, but Butt is a week in week out problem now. He had to go some to be worse than he was on Friday at Wigan, but he managed to achieve it. He is only ever a good defensive midfielder when we're playing well, when we need him to be holding the midfield together when under pressure he's one of the first to disappear out of the game. The only time you then notice him is when he's repeatedly giving the ball back to the opposition playing simple 5 yard passes. maybe he'd be a better defensive midfielder if he was allowed to do just that as opposed to doing guthries (gooad games against pompey and spurs aside) work trying to get a little bit further forward ? Butt struggles to play the simplest of passes though. Not sure how many passes he completed today but I can't remember many. His legs have gone too and he tires badly too imo. Guthrie isn't the answer either but he shows a bit of drive from time to time. The sooner Barton's back the better and I never thought I'd say that often. butts pasing was equal to most for us today...it was that bad. he shouldn't need the legs,guthrie shouldn't be forcing him forward. 2 new centre mids may be too much to ask but bartona and 1 other please. if only to get to the end of the season. If you're starting a Premiership game in CM then you need legs. Possession changes hands that often and the tempo is so high that getting about the park is paramount in CM. His legs have gone which means he can't get up and down or tackle cleanly anymore. When the ball breaks to him he invariably gives it straight back. He can't track runners from midfield and provides nothing going forward. He's a f***ing liability and the sooner the ginger c*** is out of the door the better. There, I've said it. i agree to a point......why dont you say the same about guthrie who has been equally as bad....worse if you think he should have more legs. I don't think Guthrie has been as bad though. He hasn't been great but I think he keeps possession better and offers more going forward than Butt does. I'm not trying to make him out as being another Vieira but Butt is going to get slower and less mobile as time goes on. Ideally the club will bring in someone to partner Barton in there as you say, but until that happens then Guthrie deserves is spot over Butt every day of the week. Imo obviously. i don't see much of a difference between butt and guthrie. in fact the only difference is that butt takes more blame,he's the whipping boy and guthrie is riding anonymously by Fair enough. I think Butt's been, by and large, shocking this season. Guthrie has time on his side and is worth having in the squad. He should improve. Butt will only get (even) worse/slower. i agree about butt,but i think guthrie has been equally as bad and has shown little to make me think he'll get better. least of all any sort of leadership when he makes the likes of butt go forward cos he wont We disagree chap. At this moment in time I think Guthrie, for all his faults, is a better option than Butt in the middle of the park. Guthrie should, in theory, get better whereas Butt has been on the way down for years now. I'd concede that Guthrie at his peak probably won't be as good as Butt was at his peak. i see no reason to think this isn't guthrie at his peak Ok. Given the choice: Barton & Butt or Barton & Guthrie who do you go with? barton and butt. allowing barton to get forward,till summer and getting someone else in. I don't agree but there you go. I do think we need to spend a bit on a better CM asap though. Maybe Bullard? Is this after we get a new RB and LB to cover for Beye and Enrique? Cos we need them more than any midfielder at the minute! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mowen Posted December 29, 2008 Share Posted December 29, 2008 Butt vs Gerrard today was the biggest mis-match I think I've ever seen in football. wasn't exactly a one on one as gerrard played between their midfield and attack....hate to say it but a masterclass in MOVEMENT from gerrard today Wasn't actually a one on one as Butt didn't get near him all afternoon. neither'd guthrie,coloccini,taylor,n'zogbia,geremi,gutierrez..........why make it butt only ? Because I f***ing hate him And he was exactly the same at Wigan on Friday. I'm a tad more objective. i thought guthrie was woeful on and off the ball aswell, had lots of chances to break forward but held back forcing either butt forward or isolating the forwards. duff was more dynamic than n'zogbia,enrique has no confidence,owen was anonymous,given could have held two of them saves.....i could go on I'd agree with all of that, but Butt is a week in week out problem now. He had to go some to be worse than he was on Friday at Wigan, but he managed to achieve it. He is only ever a good defensive midfielder when we're playing well, when we need him to be holding the midfield together when under pressure he's one of the first to disappear out of the game. The only time you then notice him is when he's repeatedly giving the ball back to the opposition playing simple 5 yard passes. maybe he'd be a better defensive midfielder if he was allowed to do just that as opposed to doing guthries (gooad games against pompey and spurs aside) work trying to get a little bit further forward ? Butt struggles to play the simplest of passes though. Not sure how many passes he completed today but I can't remember many. His legs have gone too and he tires badly too imo. Guthrie isn't the answer either but he shows a bit of drive from time to time. The sooner Barton's back the better and I never thought I'd say that often. butts pasing was equal to most for us today...it was that bad. he shouldn't need the legs,guthrie shouldn't be forcing him forward. 2 new centre mids may be too much to ask but bartona and 1 other please. if only to get to the end of the season. If you're starting a Premiership game in CM then you need legs. Possession changes hands that often and the tempo is so high that getting about the park is paramount in CM. His legs have gone which means he can't get up and down or tackle cleanly anymore. When the ball breaks to him he invariably gives it straight back. He can't track runners from midfield and provides nothing going forward. He's a f***ing liability and the sooner the ginger c*** is out of the door the better. There, I've said it. i agree to a point......why dont you say the same about guthrie who has been equally as bad....worse if you think he should have more legs. I don't think Guthrie has been as bad though. He hasn't been great but I think he keeps possession better and offers more going forward than Butt does. I'm not trying to make him out as being another Vieira but Butt is going to get slower and less mobile as time goes on. Ideally the club will bring in someone to partner Barton in there as you say, but until that happens then Guthrie deserves is spot over Butt every day of the week. Imo obviously. i don't see much of a difference between butt and guthrie. in fact the only difference is that butt takes more blame,he's the whipping boy and guthrie is riding anonymously by Fair enough. I think Butt's been, by and large, shocking this season. Guthrie has time on his side and is worth having in the squad. He should improve. Butt will only get (even) worse/slower. i agree about butt,but i think guthrie has been equally as bad and has shown little to make me think he'll get better. least of all any sort of leadership when he makes the likes of butt go forward cos he wont We disagree chap. At this moment in time I think Guthrie, for all his faults, is a better option than Butt in the middle of the park. Guthrie should, in theory, get better whereas Butt has been on the way down for years now. I'd concede that Guthrie at his peak probably won't be as good as Butt was at his peak. i see no reason to think this isn't guthrie at his peak Ok. Given the choice: Barton & Butt or Barton & Guthrie who do you go with? barton and butt. allowing barton to get forward,till summer and getting someone else in. I don't agree but there you go. I do think we need to spend a bit on a better CM asap though. Maybe Bullard? Is this after we get a new RB and LB to cover for Beye and Enrique? Cos we need them more than any midfielder at the minute! I disagree. I think we would have been raped in the second half regardless of whether those two were playing or not, our midfield was shambolic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
midds Posted December 29, 2008 Share Posted December 29, 2008 Butt vs Gerrard today was the biggest mis-match I think I've ever seen in football. wasn't exactly a one on one as gerrard played between their midfield and attack....hate to say it but a masterclass in MOVEMENT from gerrard today Wasn't actually a one on one as Butt didn't get near him all afternoon. neither'd guthrie,coloccini,taylor,n'zogbia,geremi,gutierrez..........why make it butt only ? Because I f***ing hate him And he was exactly the same at Wigan on Friday. I'm a tad more objective. i thought guthrie was woeful on and off the ball aswell, had lots of chances to break forward but held back forcing either butt forward or isolating the forwards. duff was more dynamic than n'zogbia,enrique has no confidence,owen was anonymous,given could have held two of them saves.....i could go on I'd agree with all of that, but Butt is a week in week out problem now. He had to go some to be worse than he was on Friday at Wigan, but he managed to achieve it. He is only ever a good defensive midfielder when we're playing well, when we need him to be holding the midfield together when under pressure he's one of the first to disappear out of the game. The only time you then notice him is when he's repeatedly giving the ball back to the opposition playing simple 5 yard passes. maybe he'd be a better defensive midfielder if he was allowed to do just that as opposed to doing guthries (gooad games against pompey and spurs aside) work trying to get a little bit further forward ? Butt struggles to play the simplest of passes though. Not sure how many passes he completed today but I can't remember many. His legs have gone too and he tires badly too imo. Guthrie isn't the answer either but he shows a bit of drive from time to time. The sooner Barton's back the better and I never thought I'd say that often. butts pasing was equal to most for us today...it was that bad. he shouldn't need the legs,guthrie shouldn't be forcing him forward. 2 new centre mids may be too much to ask but bartona and 1 other please. if only to get to the end of the season. If you're starting a Premiership game in CM then you need legs. Possession changes hands that often and the tempo is so high that getting about the park is paramount in CM. His legs have gone which means he can't get up and down or tackle cleanly anymore. When the ball breaks to him he invariably gives it straight back. He can't track runners from midfield and provides nothing going forward. He's a f***ing liability and the sooner the ginger c*** is out of the door the better. There, I've said it. i agree to a point......why dont you say the same about guthrie who has been equally as bad....worse if you think he should have more legs. I don't think Guthrie has been as bad though. He hasn't been great but I think he keeps possession better and offers more going forward than Butt does. I'm not trying to make him out as being another Vieira but Butt is going to get slower and less mobile as time goes on. Ideally the club will bring in someone to partner Barton in there as you say, but until that happens then Guthrie deserves is spot over Butt every day of the week. Imo obviously. i don't see much of a difference between butt and guthrie. in fact the only difference is that butt takes more blame,he's the whipping boy and guthrie is riding anonymously by Fair enough. I think Butt's been, by and large, shocking this season. Guthrie has time on his side and is worth having in the squad. He should improve. Butt will only get (even) worse/slower. i agree about butt,but i think guthrie has been equally as bad and has shown little to make me think he'll get better. least of all any sort of leadership when he makes the likes of butt go forward cos he wont We disagree chap. At this moment in time I think Guthrie, for all his faults, is a better option than Butt in the middle of the park. Guthrie should, in theory, get better whereas Butt has been on the way down for years now. I'd concede that Guthrie at his peak probably won't be as good as Butt was at his peak. i see no reason to think this isn't guthrie at his peak Ok. Given the choice: Barton & Butt or Barton & Guthrie who do you go with? barton and butt. allowing barton to get forward,till summer and getting someone else in. I don't agree but there you go. I do think we need to spend a bit on a better CM asap though. Maybe Bullard? Is this after we get a new RB and LB to cover for Beye and Enrique? Cos we need them more than any midfielder at the minute! I'd argue a CM who can keep possession would take a bit of pressure off our back 4. We need cover at both LB and RB but how often do you lose both first choice full-backs in the same game? Enrique and Beye are good players. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colocho Posted December 29, 2008 Share Posted December 29, 2008 Has to be Barton and Guthrie in the middle together. Butt to come on when we are defending a lead ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest toonlass Posted December 29, 2008 Share Posted December 29, 2008 Butt vs Gerrard today was the biggest mis-match I think I've ever seen in football. wasn't exactly a one on one as gerrard played between their midfield and attack....hate to say it but a masterclass in MOVEMENT from gerrard today Wasn't actually a one on one as Butt didn't get near him all afternoon. neither'd guthrie,coloccini,taylor,n'zogbia,geremi,gutierrez..........why make it butt only ? Because I f***ing hate him And he was exactly the same at Wigan on Friday. I'm a tad more objective. i thought guthrie was woeful on and off the ball aswell, had lots of chances to break forward but held back forcing either butt forward or isolating the forwards. duff was more dynamic than n'zogbia,enrique has no confidence,owen was anonymous,given could have held two of them saves.....i could go on I'd agree with all of that, but Butt is a week in week out problem now. He had to go some to be worse than he was on Friday at Wigan, but he managed to achieve it. He is only ever a good defensive midfielder when we're playing well, when we need him to be holding the midfield together when under pressure he's one of the first to disappear out of the game. The only time you then notice him is when he's repeatedly giving the ball back to the opposition playing simple 5 yard passes. maybe he'd be a better defensive midfielder if he was allowed to do just that as opposed to doing guthries (gooad games against pompey and spurs aside) work trying to get a little bit further forward ? Butt struggles to play the simplest of passes though. Not sure how many passes he completed today but I can't remember many. His legs have gone too and he tires badly too imo. Guthrie isn't the answer either but he shows a bit of drive from time to time. The sooner Barton's back the better and I never thought I'd say that often. butts pasing was equal to most for us today...it was that bad. he shouldn't need the legs,guthrie shouldn't be forcing him forward. 2 new centre mids may be too much to ask but bartona and 1 other please. if only to get to the end of the season. If you're starting a Premiership game in CM then you need legs. Possession changes hands that often and the tempo is so high that getting about the park is paramount in CM. His legs have gone which means he can't get up and down or tackle cleanly anymore. When the ball breaks to him he invariably gives it straight back. He can't track runners from midfield and provides nothing going forward. He's a f***ing liability and the sooner the ginger c*** is out of the door the better. There, I've said it. i agree to a point......why dont you say the same about guthrie who has been equally as bad....worse if you think he should have more legs. I don't think Guthrie has been as bad though. He hasn't been great but I think he keeps possession better and offers more going forward than Butt does. I'm not trying to make him out as being another Vieira but Butt is going to get slower and less mobile as time goes on. Ideally the club will bring in someone to partner Barton in there as you say, but until that happens then Guthrie deserves is spot over Butt every day of the week. Imo obviously. i don't see much of a difference between butt and guthrie. in fact the only difference is that butt takes more blame,he's the whipping boy and guthrie is riding anonymously by Fair enough. I think Butt's been, by and large, shocking this season. Guthrie has time on his side and is worth having in the squad. He should improve. Butt will only get (even) worse/slower. i agree about butt,but i think guthrie has been equally as bad and has shown little to make me think he'll get better. least of all any sort of leadership when he makes the likes of butt go forward cos he wont We disagree chap. At this moment in time I think Guthrie, for all his faults, is a better option than Butt in the middle of the park. Guthrie should, in theory, get better whereas Butt has been on the way down for years now. I'd concede that Guthrie at his peak probably won't be as good as Butt was at his peak. i see no reason to think this isn't guthrie at his peak Ok. Given the choice: Barton & Butt or Barton & Guthrie who do you go with? barton and butt. allowing barton to get forward,till summer and getting someone else in. I don't agree but there you go. I do think we need to spend a bit on a better CM asap though. Maybe Bullard? Is this after we get a new RB and LB to cover for Beye and Enrique? Cos we need them more than any midfielder at the minute! I disagree. I think we would have been raped in the second half regardless of whether those two were playing or not, our midfield was shambolic. I meant as an option to give competition to Enrique and backup to Beye. Its not just today that we have been short of any quality in these areas you know! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mowen Posted December 29, 2008 Share Posted December 29, 2008 Butt vs Gerrard today was the biggest mis-match I think I've ever seen in football. wasn't exactly a one on one as gerrard played between their midfield and attack....hate to say it but a masterclass in MOVEMENT from gerrard today Wasn't actually a one on one as Butt didn't get near him all afternoon. neither'd guthrie,coloccini,taylor,n'zogbia,geremi,gutierrez..........why make it butt only ? Because I f***ing hate him And he was exactly the same at Wigan on Friday. I'm a tad more objective. i thought guthrie was woeful on and off the ball aswell, had lots of chances to break forward but held back forcing either butt forward or isolating the forwards. duff was more dynamic than n'zogbia,enrique has no confidence,owen was anonymous,given could have held two of them saves.....i could go on I'd agree with all of that, but Butt is a week in week out problem now. He had to go some to be worse than he was on Friday at Wigan, but he managed to achieve it. He is only ever a good defensive midfielder when we're playing well, when we need him to be holding the midfield together when under pressure he's one of the first to disappear out of the game. The only time you then notice him is when he's repeatedly giving the ball back to the opposition playing simple 5 yard passes. maybe he'd be a better defensive midfielder if he was allowed to do just that as opposed to doing guthries (gooad games against pompey and spurs aside) work trying to get a little bit further forward ? Butt struggles to play the simplest of passes though. Not sure how many passes he completed today but I can't remember many. His legs have gone too and he tires badly too imo. Guthrie isn't the answer either but he shows a bit of drive from time to time. The sooner Barton's back the better and I never thought I'd say that often. butts pasing was equal to most for us today...it was that bad. he shouldn't need the legs,guthrie shouldn't be forcing him forward. 2 new centre mids may be too much to ask but bartona and 1 other please. if only to get to the end of the season. If you're starting a Premiership game in CM then you need legs. Possession changes hands that often and the tempo is so high that getting about the park is paramount in CM. His legs have gone which means he can't get up and down or tackle cleanly anymore. When the ball breaks to him he invariably gives it straight back. He can't track runners from midfield and provides nothing going forward. He's a f***ing liability and the sooner the ginger c*** is out of the door the better. There, I've said it. i agree to a point......why dont you say the same about guthrie who has been equally as bad....worse if you think he should have more legs. I don't think Guthrie has been as bad though. He hasn't been great but I think he keeps possession better and offers more going forward than Butt does. I'm not trying to make him out as being another Vieira but Butt is going to get slower and less mobile as time goes on. Ideally the club will bring in someone to partner Barton in there as you say, but until that happens then Guthrie deserves is spot over Butt every day of the week. Imo obviously. i don't see much of a difference between butt and guthrie. in fact the only difference is that butt takes more blame,he's the whipping boy and guthrie is riding anonymously by Fair enough. I think Butt's been, by and large, shocking this season. Guthrie has time on his side and is worth having in the squad. He should improve. Butt will only get (even) worse/slower. i agree about butt,but i think guthrie has been equally as bad and has shown little to make me think he'll get better. least of all any sort of leadership when he makes the likes of butt go forward cos he wont We disagree chap. At this moment in time I think Guthrie, for all his faults, is a better option than Butt in the middle of the park. Guthrie should, in theory, get better whereas Butt has been on the way down for years now. I'd concede that Guthrie at his peak probably won't be as good as Butt was at his peak. i see no reason to think this isn't guthrie at his peak Ok. Given the choice: Barton & Butt or Barton & Guthrie who do you go with? barton and butt. allowing barton to get forward,till summer and getting someone else in. I don't agree but there you go. I do think we need to spend a bit on a better CM asap though. Maybe Bullard? Is this after we get a new RB and LB to cover for Beye and Enrique? Cos we need them more than any midfielder at the minute! I disagree. I think we would have been raped in the second half regardless of whether those two were playing or not, our midfield was shambolic. I meant as an option to give competition to Enrique and backup to Beye. Its not just today that we have been short of any quality in these areas you know! I agree with you there, it's just nowhere near the priority midfield is imo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest toonlass Posted December 29, 2008 Share Posted December 29, 2008 Butt vs Gerrard today was the biggest mis-match I think I've ever seen in football. wasn't exactly a one on one as gerrard played between their midfield and attack....hate to say it but a masterclass in MOVEMENT from gerrard today Wasn't actually a one on one as Butt didn't get near him all afternoon. neither'd guthrie,coloccini,taylor,n'zogbia,geremi,gutierrez..........why make it butt only ? Because I f***ing hate him And he was exactly the same at Wigan on Friday. I'm a tad more objective. i thought guthrie was woeful on and off the ball aswell, had lots of chances to break forward but held back forcing either butt forward or isolating the forwards. duff was more dynamic than n'zogbia,enrique has no confidence,owen was anonymous,given could have held two of them saves.....i could go on I'd agree with all of that, but Butt is a week in week out problem now. He had to go some to be worse than he was on Friday at Wigan, but he managed to achieve it. He is only ever a good defensive midfielder when we're playing well, when we need him to be holding the midfield together when under pressure he's one of the first to disappear out of the game. The only time you then notice him is when he's repeatedly giving the ball back to the opposition playing simple 5 yard passes. maybe he'd be a better defensive midfielder if he was allowed to do just that as opposed to doing guthries (gooad games against pompey and spurs aside) work trying to get a little bit further forward ? Butt struggles to play the simplest of passes though. Not sure how many passes he completed today but I can't remember many. His legs have gone too and he tires badly too imo. Guthrie isn't the answer either but he shows a bit of drive from time to time. The sooner Barton's back the better and I never thought I'd say that often. butts pasing was equal to most for us today...it was that bad. he shouldn't need the legs,guthrie shouldn't be forcing him forward. 2 new centre mids may be too much to ask but bartona and 1 other please. if only to get to the end of the season. If you're starting a Premiership game in CM then you need legs. Possession changes hands that often and the tempo is so high that getting about the park is paramount in CM. His legs have gone which means he can't get up and down or tackle cleanly anymore. When the ball breaks to him he invariably gives it straight back. He can't track runners from midfield and provides nothing going forward. He's a f***ing liability and the sooner the ginger c*** is out of the door the better. There, I've said it. i agree to a point......why dont you say the same about guthrie who has been equally as bad....worse if you think he should have more legs. I don't think Guthrie has been as bad though. He hasn't been great but I think he keeps possession better and offers more going forward than Butt does. I'm not trying to make him out as being another Vieira but Butt is going to get slower and less mobile as time goes on. Ideally the club will bring in someone to partner Barton in there as you say, but until that happens then Guthrie deserves is spot over Butt every day of the week. Imo obviously. i don't see much of a difference between butt and guthrie. in fact the only difference is that butt takes more blame,he's the whipping boy and guthrie is riding anonymously by Fair enough. I think Butt's been, by and large, shocking this season. Guthrie has time on his side and is worth having in the squad. He should improve. Butt will only get (even) worse/slower. i agree about butt,but i think guthrie has been equally as bad and has shown little to make me think he'll get better. least of all any sort of leadership when he makes the likes of butt go forward cos he wont We disagree chap. At this moment in time I think Guthrie, for all his faults, is a better option than Butt in the middle of the park. Guthrie should, in theory, get better whereas Butt has been on the way down for years now. I'd concede that Guthrie at his peak probably won't be as good as Butt was at his peak. i see no reason to think this isn't guthrie at his peak Ok. Given the choice: Barton & Butt or Barton & Guthrie who do you go with? barton and butt. allowing barton to get forward,till summer and getting someone else in. I don't agree but there you go. I do think we need to spend a bit on a better CM asap though. Maybe Bullard? Is this after we get a new RB and LB to cover for Beye and Enrique? Cos we need them more than any midfielder at the minute! I disagree. I think we would have been raped in the second half regardless of whether those two were playing or not, our midfield was shambolic. I meant as an option to give competition to Enrique and backup to Beye. Its not just today that we have been short of any quality in these areas you know! I agree with you there, it's just nowhere near the priority midfield is imo. I cannot agree there, in defence we have Beye (currently injured), Colo (hot and cold), Bassong (immense) Enrique (mystifying) with Taylor, Cacapa and Edgar as backup all of who are terrible. We have a midfielder (Zoggy) covering left back, a job he shouldn't be expected to do. In midfield we have Jonas, Geremi, Barton, Butt, Guthrie, Alan Smith (I know), Zoggy, Duff and Lua Lua. While we do need a midfielder, we need defenders more imo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PM Posted December 29, 2008 Share Posted December 29, 2008 Guthrie's set pieces are consistently about 100 times better than anyone else in the side can manage. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted December 29, 2008 Share Posted December 29, 2008 Guthrie's set pieces are consistently about 100 times better than anyone else in the side can manage. corners aye...free kicks i'm happy for geremi to have them....even before yesterday Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtype Posted December 29, 2008 Share Posted December 29, 2008 Got so piss drunk yesterday I can't really remember anything about the game. I think that's a good thing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
merlin Posted December 29, 2008 Share Posted December 29, 2008 It's f***ing ridicules what people now make of such a defeat. It's ashame what some people say here who call themselves Toon Supporters, Fans, Army, Ultras, Whatever. Absolutly ashame. WE STILL FOLLOW UNITED!!! YAWN - Are you for real..? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bolton Zulu Posted December 29, 2008 Share Posted December 29, 2008 Butt vs Gerrard today was the biggest mis-match I think I've ever seen in football. wasn't exactly a one on one as gerrard played between their midfield and attack....hate to say it but a masterclass in MOVEMENT from gerrard today Wasn't actually a one on one as Butt didn't get near him all afternoon. neither'd guthrie,coloccini,taylor,n'zogbia,geremi,gutierrez..........why make it butt only ? Because I f***ing hate him And he was exactly the same at Wigan on Friday. I'm a tad more objective. i thought guthrie was woeful on and off the ball aswell, had lots of chances to break forward but held back forcing either butt forward or isolating the forwards. duff was more dynamic than n'zogbia,enrique has no confidence,owen was anonymous,given could have held two of them saves.....i could go on I'd agree with all of that, but Butt is a week in week out problem now. He had to go some to be worse than he was on Friday at Wigan, but he managed to achieve it. He is only ever a good defensive midfielder when we're playing well, when we need him to be holding the midfield together when under pressure he's one of the first to disappear out of the game. The only time you then notice him is when he's repeatedly giving the ball back to the opposition playing simple 5 yard passes. maybe he'd be a better defensive midfielder if he was allowed to do just that as opposed to doing guthries (gooad games against pompey and spurs aside) work trying to get a little bit further forward ? Butt struggles to play the simplest of passes though. Not sure how many passes he completed today but I can't remember many. His legs have gone too and he tires badly too imo. Guthrie isn't the answer either but he shows a bit of drive from time to time. The sooner Barton's back the better and I never thought I'd say that often. butts pasing was equal to most for us today...it was that bad. he shouldn't need the legs,guthrie shouldn't be forcing him forward. 2 new centre mids may be too much to ask but bartona and 1 other please. if only to get to the end of the season. If you're starting a Premiership game in CM then you need legs. Possession changes hands that often and the tempo is so high that getting about the park is paramount in CM. His legs have gone which means he can't get up and down or tackle cleanly anymore. When the ball breaks to him he invariably gives it straight back. He can't track runners from midfield and provides nothing going forward. He's a f***ing liability and the sooner the ginger c*** is out of the door the better. There, I've said it. i agree to a point......why dont you say the same about guthrie who has been equally as bad....worse if you think he should have more legs. I don't think Guthrie has been as bad though. He hasn't been great but I think he keeps possession better and offers more going forward than Butt does. I'm not trying to make him out as being another Vieira but Butt is going to get slower and less mobile as time goes on. Ideally the club will bring in someone to partner Barton in there as you say, but until that happens then Guthrie deserves is spot over Butt every day of the week. Imo obviously. i don't see much of a difference between butt and guthrie. in fact the only difference is that butt takes more blame,he's the whipping boy and guthrie is riding anonymously by Fair enough. I think Butt's been, by and large, shocking this season. Guthrie has time on his side and is worth having in the squad. He should improve. Butt will only get (even) worse/slower. i agree about butt,but i think guthrie has been equally as bad and has shown little to make me think he'll get better. least of all any sort of leadership when he makes the likes of butt go forward cos he wont We disagree chap. At this moment in time I think Guthrie, for all his faults, is a better option than Butt in the middle of the park. Guthrie should, in theory, get better whereas Butt has been on the way down for years now. I'd concede that Guthrie at his peak probably won't be as good as Butt was at his peak. i see no reason to think this isn't guthrie at his peak I saw Guthrie play for Bolton a few times last season. What you see is what you get. He's not going to get better guys. He's an average Premier League grafter, nothing more. I was surprised that you signed him to be honest. Mind you, he's not out of his depth in your current squad. It will be interesting to see if that changes in the January window. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven Posted December 29, 2008 Share Posted December 29, 2008 We missed our 4 best players, who would have made a massive difference. If you took Gerrard out of yesterday's game (missing their best 2 players) and it would have been very different again. Every cloud has a silver lining and all that, nice message from JFK to the board before the window opens. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted December 29, 2008 Share Posted December 29, 2008 Butt vs Gerrard today was the biggest mis-match I think I've ever seen in football. wasn't exactly a one on one as gerrard played between their midfield and attack....hate to say it but a masterclass in MOVEMENT from gerrard today Wasn't actually a one on one as Butt didn't get near him all afternoon. neither'd guthrie,coloccini,taylor,n'zogbia,geremi,gutierrez..........why make it butt only ? Because I f***ing hate him And he was exactly the same at Wigan on Friday. I'm a tad more objective. i thought guthrie was woeful on and off the ball aswell, had lots of chances to break forward but held back forcing either butt forward or isolating the forwards. duff was more dynamic than n'zogbia,enrique has no confidence,owen was anonymous,given could have held two of them saves.....i could go on I'd agree with all of that, but Butt is a week in week out problem now. He had to go some to be worse than he was on Friday at Wigan, but he managed to achieve it. He is only ever a good defensive midfielder when we're playing well, when we need him to be holding the midfield together when under pressure he's one of the first to disappear out of the game. The only time you then notice him is when he's repeatedly giving the ball back to the opposition playing simple 5 yard passes. maybe he'd be a better defensive midfielder if he was allowed to do just that as opposed to doing guthries (gooad games against pompey and spurs aside) work trying to get a little bit further forward ? Butt struggles to play the simplest of passes though. Not sure how many passes he completed today but I can't remember many. His legs have gone too and he tires badly too imo. Guthrie isn't the answer either but he shows a bit of drive from time to time. The sooner Barton's back the better and I never thought I'd say that often. butts pasing was equal to most for us today...it was that bad. he shouldn't need the legs,guthrie shouldn't be forcing him forward. 2 new centre mids may be too much to ask but bartona and 1 other please. if only to get to the end of the season. If you're starting a Premiership game in CM then you need legs. Possession changes hands that often and the tempo is so high that getting about the park is paramount in CM. His legs have gone which means he can't get up and down or tackle cleanly anymore. When the ball breaks to him he invariably gives it straight back. He can't track runners from midfield and provides nothing going forward. He's a f***ing liability and the sooner the ginger c*** is out of the door the better. There, I've said it. i agree to a point......why dont you say the same about guthrie who has been equally as bad....worse if you think he should have more legs. I don't think Guthrie has been as bad though. He hasn't been great but I think he keeps possession better and offers more going forward than Butt does. I'm not trying to make him out as being another Vieira but Butt is going to get slower and less mobile as time goes on. Ideally the club will bring in someone to partner Barton in there as you say, but until that happens then Guthrie deserves is spot over Butt every day of the week. Imo obviously. i don't see much of a difference between butt and guthrie. in fact the only difference is that butt takes more blame,he's the whipping boy and guthrie is riding anonymously by Fair enough. I think Butt's been, by and large, shocking this season. Guthrie has time on his side and is worth having in the squad. He should improve. Butt will only get (even) worse/slower. i agree about butt,but i think guthrie has been equally as bad and has shown little to make me think he'll get better. least of all any sort of leadership when he makes the likes of butt go forward cos he wont We disagree chap. At this moment in time I think Guthrie, for all his faults, is a better option than Butt in the middle of the park. Guthrie should, in theory, get better whereas Butt has been on the way down for years now. I'd concede that Guthrie at his peak probably won't be as good as Butt was at his peak. i see no reason to think this isn't guthrie at his peak Ok. Given the choice: Barton & Butt or Barton & Guthrie who do you go with? barton and butt. allowing barton to get forward,till summer and getting someone else in. How does Butt get away with it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest optimistic nit Posted December 29, 2008 Share Posted December 29, 2008 i still remember after the keegan thing a newcastle fan's representitive on ssnsaying that we had top players at our team, Given, Owen and Taylor. a fucking fans representitive for christ sakes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted December 29, 2008 Share Posted December 29, 2008 Butt vs Gerrard today was the biggest mis-match I think I've ever seen in football. wasn't exactly a one on one as gerrard played between their midfield and attack....hate to say it but a masterclass in MOVEMENT from gerrard today Wasn't actually a one on one as Butt didn't get near him all afternoon. neither'd guthrie,coloccini,taylor,n'zogbia,geremi,gutierrez..........why make it butt only ? Because I f***ing hate him And he was exactly the same at Wigan on Friday. I'm a tad more objective. i thought guthrie was woeful on and off the ball aswell, had lots of chances to break forward but held back forcing either butt forward or isolating the forwards. duff was more dynamic than n'zogbia,enrique has no confidence,owen was anonymous,given could have held two of them saves.....i could go on I'd agree with all of that, but Butt is a week in week out problem now. He had to go some to be worse than he was on Friday at Wigan, but he managed to achieve it. He is only ever a good defensive midfielder when we're playing well, when we need him to be holding the midfield together when under pressure he's one of the first to disappear out of the game. The only time you then notice him is when he's repeatedly giving the ball back to the opposition playing simple 5 yard passes. maybe he'd be a better defensive midfielder if he was allowed to do just that as opposed to doing guthries (gooad games against pompey and spurs aside) work trying to get a little bit further forward ? Butt struggles to play the simplest of passes though. Not sure how many passes he completed today but I can't remember many. His legs have gone too and he tires badly too imo. Guthrie isn't the answer either but he shows a bit of drive from time to time. The sooner Barton's back the better and I never thought I'd say that often. butts pasing was equal to most for us today...it was that bad. he shouldn't need the legs,guthrie shouldn't be forcing him forward. 2 new centre mids may be too much to ask but bartona and 1 other please. if only to get to the end of the season. If you're starting a Premiership game in CM then you need legs. Possession changes hands that often and the tempo is so high that getting about the park is paramount in CM. His legs have gone which means he can't get up and down or tackle cleanly anymore. When the ball breaks to him he invariably gives it straight back. He can't track runners from midfield and provides nothing going forward. He's a f***ing liability and the sooner the ginger c*** is out of the door the better. There, I've said it. i agree to a point......why dont you say the same about guthrie who has been equally as bad....worse if you think he should have more legs. I don't think Guthrie has been as bad though. He hasn't been great but I think he keeps possession better and offers more going forward than Butt does. I'm not trying to make him out as being another Vieira but Butt is going to get slower and less mobile as time goes on. Ideally the club will bring in someone to partner Barton in there as you say, but until that happens then Guthrie deserves is spot over Butt every day of the week. Imo obviously. i don't see much of a difference between butt and guthrie. in fact the only difference is that butt takes more blame,he's the whipping boy and guthrie is riding anonymously by That's true to some extent. I said before this was brought up that Guthrie played a cowardly game yesterday, for me he was hiding in this game. I was watching the central midfielders very closely because I had a feeling we were going to get over run in that area, and while Butt jogged around without a clue while the game passed him by, I was surprised to see the same was true of Guthrie. Both players were stood watching far too often while Liverpool's forwards bombed passed them. The only difference between the two is Guthrie isn't a fossil so there is still hope he can be coached into upping his game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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