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morgs
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I am starting this topic because i put it the reason for a lack of points down to our midfield and so i thought it could be wise to compare this with other clubs. I believe in this transfer window at least 1 good central midfielder is required because it is the central midfield which links everything going forward, and makes it easier for the central defence by hopefully stopping the ball reaching them.

 

1st to 20th excluding those whose midfield dont play a major part, ie wigan whose work ethic is the predominant factor in their victories

 

Liverpool:

                  Gerrard

Riera                              Lucas      Kuyt

                Mascherano

 

Chelsea:

Cole            Lampard        Kalou

        Mikel              Ballack

 

Man U:

Ronaldo      Carrick    Anderson      Park

 

Villa:                         

Young      Barry    Sidwell          Milner

                        Petrov

 

Arsenal:

Nasri        Fabregas    Denilson        Walcott

 

Everton:

Osman    Arteta    Neville    Pienaar

 

Fulham:

Davies  Bullard  Murphy    Dempsey

 

West ham:

Behrami    Parker    Noble    Faubert

 

Newcastle:

 

Gutierrez    Guthrie    Butt      Duff

 

Mckems:

Steed  Whitehead  Richardson   Diouf

 

Portsmouth:

Traore  Diop      Hughes    Krancjar

 

Man City

Robinho        Ireland    Fernandes      SWP

                            Kompany

 

Boro:

Downing    Digard    Arca    Johnson

 

Stoke:

Delap    Olofinjana  Faye      Whelan 

 

Spurs  :nope::

                                  Modric

Bale        Huddlestone          Bentley

                                  Zokora  

 

Looking at these i think it is clear that even with barton back, we are lacking enough go forward in the midddle of the park. We are stuck though becuase guthrie and butt are not defensive players (butt should be but he doesn't do a lot) and yet neither have the passing or creativity to really link in with the strikers. I think colo could be excellent as a DM but at the same time with someone like him you would want a dyer or someone else ahead of him who wanted to run.

 

Butt and Guthrie play very much along the same line of the pitch and as a result there never tends to be anybody sitting between the oppo dfence and midfield, a great place to play the strikers in from. Neither are runners either and this makes it easy for opposition dences as they never have anyone running at them through the centre unless on a counter attack.

 

Since without martins our strike force is immobile we really need some running midfielders to create            1        1

                                                                                                                                                                1                1            1 

                                                                                                                                                                          1 

in front of the opposition area, since another problem at the moment is that we are inviting attacks through not picking up 2nd balls. This role is once again down to the CM's. Currently We have wings who go forward but the only option is to go wide as we dont have a midfielder or striker in the hole. I beleive that is this lack of balance and movement up the pitch that is costing us since it is very easy to know what we will do as our options are limited.

 

This lack of strength also makes us very easy to hit as our midfield are too weak and arent imposing themselves defensively enough. Not enough balls are being picked up from goal kicks or headers and butt and guthrie aren't mobile or strong enough to cut out the balls into those on the edge of the box. But the thing is our team isnt built to nick a 1-0 and sit back and yet the balance of those 2 doesnt suggest we will be hammering forward and constantly knocking on the door in the way we should do against lesser teams.

 

If you look at the everton and man u central midfields it is clear that  both players can pass, but you also see creativity in 1 player while the other has many other attributes, such as winning the ball back, pace.

 

For me Kinnear needs to rethink his tactics. He is playing a target man and small man, neither with a great deal of pace, and therefoe both need balls predominantly into feet, as a ball of the head 95% of the time has no one on the end of it, yet the CM isnt that sort of midfield. If he wants to play this style for me he needs to go 4-3-3 but that would mean playing owen OR a big man as owen couldn't play wing, but this style would need to be played on a role for the front 3, which you cant train them on, in other words using their heads to pick good positions and runs which with owen, martins and ???? (hopefully Jo), could work.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I rate a couple of them but i didnt enter them because their system means that it is more important to have players who work hard, ie milners', for the strikers, their midfield bar valencia relys on winning back ball to pump into heskey and zaki. often the midfield is bypassed, as they work hard, particularly defensively and are often back defending, credit to steve bruce.

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I've been making similar noises for about two years now along with most others here. The central midfield area is abysmal compared to the quality teams and even Fulham with Bullard and Murphy is better in movement and technical ability to Butt and Guthrie. Without doubt Butt is the single biggest problem we have at Newcastle in that he's our only specialist defensive midfielder. Add that to the fact he likes a game of dominoes with Joe down the pub and it's a given that he starts every match and gets offered a new contract. I am contemplating that it might actually be better for us to pay some other club to take him off our hands. That way we could either buy a replacement or dare to play someone through the middle who doesn't need an inhaler.

 

I would seriously consider Taylor ahead of Butt, that's how bad it is.

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Aye, lack of athleticism is our main problem in the middle I reckon. Replace Butt with someone like Diarra or the like and we would be in business. Combine that with replacing Duff/Geremi with people with pace/strength and you're laughing.

 

The premiership is as much about being an athlete as about being a footballer these days. I wouldn't have minded a punt on Muamba when he joined Bolton.

 

Rumours suggest Jenas might be on his way out of Spurs too :lol:

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it's obvious to everyone that our midfield hasn't been great and we could do with strengthening, but I think Barton and Guthrie could be a decent combination.  Good enough?  Not sure.

 

It is possible to get overly obsessed with it though.  Yesterday Chelsea had a central midfield of Mikel, Lampard and Ballack yet they were totally bossed by a ManU central pairing of Fletcher and 35 year-old Giggs. 

 

Better than we have possibly, but not many people would say they are the best in the league, yet in arguably their biggest game of the season so far that's who the favourites for the title selected.

 

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it's obvious to everyone that our midfield hasn't been great and we could do with strengthening, but I think Barton and Guthrie could be a decent combination.  Good enough?  Not sure.

 

It is possible to get overly obsessed with it though.  Yesterday Chelsea had a central midfield of Mikel, Lampard and Ballack yet they were totally bossed by a ManU central pairing of Fletcher and 35 year-old Giggs. 

 

Better than we have possibly, but not many people would say they are the best in the league, yet in arguably their biggest game of the season so far that's who the favourites for the title selected.

 

It is important to note that Chelsea are basically falling apart while Man U are in perfect form. The fact that United played the formation they did just showed how they were not scared of of a Chelsea team that is really pretty poor at the moment.

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morgster, we've gradually gotten worse and worse. we had Lee, Hamann, Speed and Batty at the club even when we were shit, 4 midfielders each of whom are better than our best current player in the same position. then there was Speed-Dyer which was formidable with Acuna-Jenas in the reserve, followed by Parker-Emre, with Bowyer-Butt in reserve. any of those pairings are better than anything we can currently put out. Barton is our best by some distance, but even he is a run of the mill, mid-table premiership midfielder and besides, for one reason or another he is rarely available. Guthrie has some talent but shouldnt be starting for us, and shares similar weaknesses to Butt and Geremi in that he's soft as shit and has no movement. together they make for an horrific bunch of players. i'd love us to go out and buy two top drawer midfielders, shift on Butt and Geremi and have Guthrie and Barton as backup players, which is what they should be. unfortunately with mismanagement from the owner it's not going to happen

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Guest Heneage

I've been making similar noises for about two years now along with most others here. The central midfield area is abysmal compared to the quality teams and even Fulham with Bullard and Murphy is better in movement and technical ability to Butt and Guthrie. Without doubt Butt is the single biggest problem we have at Newcastle in that he's our only specialist defensive midfielder. Add that to the fact he likes a game of dominoes with Joe down the pub and it's a given that he starts every match and gets offered a new contract. I am contemplating that it might actually be better for us to pay some other club to take him off our hands. That way we could either buy a replacement or dare to play someone through the middle who doesn't need an inhaler.

 

I would seriously consider Taylor ahead of Butt, that's how bad it is.

 

the worst thing is look at our Midfield a few years ago,

 

robert     speed     jenas     solano

 

had quality written all over it, and had a nice balance between flare and duties.

 

That midfield worked so well, arguably my favourite time as a Newcastle fan. Speed should never have gone IMO was brilliant for us. Could have brought Jenas on bounds.

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  The best thread I have seen for a while well dome morgstar, Any team who is successful have a good midfilders. Thats why we were successful in Sir Bobby era as we played Speed and Dyer the whole year in 02/03 season. Our current midfild is very light wight Even though I like Guthri he is not a weeke and week out player. But finished off long time ego and we don't have any one to play there. It is shocking to see all the mangers fail to sign good midfilders for us for a while now. People worry about other areas but football will be won or lost at the middle of the park.

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We all know this - its a pity the owner doesn't , or, if he does, isn't prepared to take the necessary action to rectify it.

 

Then again, you have the problem of getting quality midfield players to join a club in turmoil.......

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  We need to address this question vigorsly we need not one but 3 or 4 midfilders may be two of them in there early twenties. I don't know why we are renewing Butt's contract at the end of this season thats should be it for him. It is really wierd when they say we have scout team all over the world Newcastle seems to be the only club in the world the mangers don't know what they do and this include the club last 5 mangers.

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I rate a couple of them but i didnt enter them because their system means that it is more important to have players who work hard, ie milners', for the strikers, their midfield bar valencia relys on winning back ball to pump into heskey and zaki. often the midfield is bypassed, as they work hard, particularly defensively and are often back defending, credit to steve bruce.

 

They've also got Palacios, and frankly even Koumas or Brown would walk into our midfield right now.

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don`t worry we`re reportedly after Nigel quashie according to todays papers.......sorted

 

THAT'S better - some ambition for a change....NOT

Makes you proud, doesn't it!!???

 

However, the media are all taking the p--- right now, so its probably garbage..

Anyway, why would a great star like Quashie sign for a club like NUFC..!???

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don`t worry we`re reportedly after Nigel quashie according to todays papers.......sorted

 

A relegation specialist. That's all we need.

 

Let's be honest and kill this rumour now, it's not going to happen and if it does Wise should be sacked.

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Guthrie is showing signs of being a quality midfielder, but as yet doesnt have the influence needed. a big reason for this is that is he has a ghost next to him, and while that ghost may be experienced, its not much good being experienced at being 5 yards oof the play and therefore ineffective.

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Wish we had Carrick.  Man Utd's best center mid when it comes to passing/distribution by a country mile.

 

No, Scholes is.  And Carrick will never be fit to lace his boots.

 

Rubbish, Scholes is class but Carrick has got a lot more in his locker in terms of passing, vision and distribution.

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Wish we had Carrick.  Man Utd's best center mid when it comes to passing/distribution by a country mile.

 

No, Scholes is.  And Carrick will never be fit to lace his boots.

 

Rubbish, Scholes is class but Carrick has got a lot more in his locker in terms of passing, vision and distribution.

 

Not more than Scholes though.

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