Mr Ashley and Ambition

[Guest LucaAltieri]

I like the buy young and cheap policy. I don't want to be spunking away millions in the name of "ambition".

 

I prefer spending good £££'s on high quality young 1st team players like Bellamy, Jenas, Parker, Dyer etc than youth team'ers.

 

What about Colo, Jonas? We have spent money on good players as well as youth players.

 

Not everything Ashley's team has done has been negative.

 

Exactly.

 

Also, when spending the money or first team players you have to be sure that the player is right for the club. It's easy to talk about going out and signing your Arshavins and Modrics but what if they fail? What then? If you've bought young players for next to nothing and brought them on yourself, if it turns out they can't do the business on the pitch what have you lost?

 

The risk short-term is high because we are relying on our current dross to keep us afloat.

 

Providing we stay up, however, it is the less risky strategy long-term.

 

Then when you see the likes of Bassong come in and boss the defence like he has, I just don't see how you can question the wisdom or putting your investment into players at that stage of their career. Compare his and Guthrie's performances to those of more established players who have cost a bomb comparatively.

[Chris_R]

While Shepherd was splashing the cash, it was unsustainable. The debt we were in would have had to be paid back sooner rather than later and I don't see how that was going to happen without us doing a Leeds.

 

So although Ashley hasn't brought Kaka or Robinho to Newcastle, he's steadied us, cleared the debts and stopped us going under. Just because he refuses to put the club into more debt or spend more of his own money doesn't make him worse than Shepherd.

 

Fat Fred had us on a one-way ticket to oblivion and anyone who can't see that needs their head read.

 

Ashley has done a lot wrong since he came here and I'm no blind fanboy, but this is a no contest for me. Ashley pretty much saved the club.

[Guest Alan Shearer 9]

The club may have ceased  to exist under Shepherd

[Tooj]

While Shepherd was splashing the cash, it was unsustainable. The debt we were in would have had to be paid back sooner rather than later and I don't see how that was going to happen without us doing a Leeds.

 

So although Ashley hasn't brought Kaka or Robinho to Newcastle, he's steadied us, cleared the debts and stopped us going under. Just because he refuses to put the club into more debt or spend more of his own money doesn't make him worse than Shepherd.

 

Fat Fred had us on a one-way ticket to oblivion and anyone who can't see that needs their head read.

 

Ashley has done a lot wrong since he came here and I'm no blind fanboy, but this is a no contest for me. Ashley pretty much saved the club.

 

How has he steadied us? We're in worse turmoil than when he took over.

[Guest The Libertine]

i think we'd be in the same position or lower if the old board was still here. at least now our finances are sorted and we have the makings of a good team with some highly regarded young players coming in, whereas our team/squad under roeder was shit and going down eventually. he just needs to bin kinnear and appoint a good manager in the summer.

[WhatTheFunk]

 

Good to see you back posting HTL. Agree with a lot of your points, but I do not agree that the current administration is the worst in the club's history. Sure it's a big mess, but I do believe that Ashley is one decent adviser away from turning it around in a way that would make us relatively successful again, and make him more money than the current situation is.

 

Wasn't Keegan his "advisor" ?

 

 

 

No. Keegan needed his own advisors ffs!!! Plus I'm talking about someone who is not involved in the football, but rather in the running of the club. Think a football-clued up Chris Mort.

[matta]

You can't say Shepherd had no ability to run a football club.

 

I can, and I just did.

 

How can a man who is Chairman during some of the best league positions the club has ever had, then have no ability to run a football club?

 

far too logical a point there tooj

 

 

 

If shepard was here still we would be under administration. So i guess it could be worse than this afterall ..

 

Now you can't say this, its just an assumption.

 

There's a thread buried somewhere where this is discussed in a  bit of depth - we were not going into administration when Fred sold to Mike

 

according to mike we were

[Taylor Swift]

While Shepherd was splashing the cash, it was unsustainable. The debt we were in would have had to be paid back sooner rather than later and I don't see how that was going to happen without us doing a Leeds.

 

So although Ashley hasn't brought Kaka or Robinho to Newcastle, he's steadied us, cleared the debts and stopped us going under. Just because he refuses to put the club into more debt or spend more of his own money doesn't make him worse than Shepherd.

 

Fat Fred had us on a one-way ticket to oblivion and anyone who can't see that needs their head read.

 

Ashley has done a lot wrong since he came here and I'm no blind fanboy, but this is a no contest for me. Ashley pretty much saved the club.

 

How has he steadied us? We're in worse turmoil than when he took over.

 

Financially we're much better off. If someone else buys us, they won't have to deal with the huge amount of debt which was crippling us when Shepherd left. They could take out new loans again and fund transfers that way for the first few seasons.

[Tooj]

i think we'd be in the same position or lower if the old board was still here. at least now our finances are sorted and we have the makings of a good team with some highly regarded young players coming in, whereas our team/squad under roeder was shit and going down eventually. he just needs to bin kinnear and appoint a good manager in the summer.

 

If only it were that simple.

[madras]

I was never one who particularly wanted rid of Freddy, and I'm also one of those who don't believe that everything we currently see is down to Ashley.

 

Fred was on a downward slope, that much should be pretty much indisputable, but had he been able to generate a new partner to replace the Halls and inject some cash then he may have recovered - this we will never know.

 

I don't like the Chelsea and Man City approach to team building, and have always supported Ashleys apparent aim of buying talented young players and building from within. I had however envisaged that all of these youth players would be mixed with some experience.

 

If the bids for Modric and/or Aimar were genuine then it would support this view - and the signing of Colo suggests that money would be spent on the RIGHT individuals.

 

Where it has gone wrong was Ashley listening to the fans and bringing back Keegan, there was no way on Earth that Keegan could coexist with Wise et al (who I believe have done nothing wrong) once Mort left as Lambarse is one of Ashleys new boys leaving Keegan out on a limb. If we had been a bit creative we could have appointed a better long term manager than Keegan last Jan and we wouldn't be in this mess (note whilst I can't understand the timing of KK walking out I also dont put all of the blame on him).

 

Should we survive this season then the situation could be repaired, Lambarse has to go and ideally JFK will be thanked for having a go and he can get another role in Div 1 or something. We then need either a young manager such as Martinez to work within the structure or someone like Bruce to be given free reign.

 

One thing I cant forgive the current management team for is the lack of communication, this is making the situation worse imo as it leaves us fans with only specualtion that the staus quo is the best we can hope for.

 

I'm not going to get into a net-spend discussion here as its overplayed and some people don't seem to grasp the positives from being able to generate good fees for mediorcre players. I'm sure that should we shift Smith for £6m and signed Mbia for £!0m then people would complain that we've only spent £4m and would have been happier spending £15m and recuperating £1m.

they are basically my thoughts except the communication bit. had we been in the top 5 or 6 i doubt anyone would have gave a toss about the communication. we had a communicator as chairman before and he got mocked and lambasted for it.

 

on a seperate not,very good to see you back HTL.

[Guest TheKingOfNewcastle]

 

Newcastle being run responsibly... or into the ground?

 

Jan 18 2009 by Neil Farrington, Sunday Sun

 

SO Joe Kinnear has been forced to sift through the thrift rails at the January sales, praying for some TK Maxx-style miracle.

 

Sadly, there isn’t much hidden value in football’s bargain basement; no little Prada or Gucci number lurking between the seriously cheap and the downright nasty.

 

The week of Manchester City’s lunatic largesse, there was never a hope of Newcastle nabbing a target like Stephane Mbia fior a song.

 

And, what of us mere witnesses to this hitherto non-event of a transfer window, not least the fans throwing money into the emotional black hole that is Newcastle United?

 

We’re left to reflect on how apt it is that Mr Sports Direct — clothier of chav Britain — should leave successive managers spending mere pennies . . . and up to their neck in the brown stuff.

 

Yet we’re also left to ask questions that demand a response, but I doubt will ever be answered.

 

First off, of Kinnear: What did you expect?

 

This, after all, is the fourth transfer window in which Mike Ashley was ready to short-change his manager.

 

To be fair to Kinnear (well, somebody’s got to be), Newcastle’s owner gave him particular reason to expect better backing this month.

 

Which only begs more questions . . .

 

Such as how did Ashley have the brass neck to come out three weeks ago and talk about 2009 being “the year in which we drive the club forward together”?

 

Such as does Ashley believe the word “responsibly” — as in “the club would continue to be run responsibly at all levels” — means “into the ground”?

 

Such as did Ashley say he was “happy to end the uncertainty the fans may have had about the future direction of Newcastle United”, because he was about to make it clear that direction was anything but upwards?

 

Such as why, if Newcastle really have “no debt whatsoever” (mind, the bloke who said that still didn’t manage to sell the club) was Ashley so obviously ready to risk incurring the horrendous losses guaranteed by relegation, rather than spend decent money this month?

 

How do we know he was ready to do this? Because it seemingly needed an SOS call from Kinnear — a full 13 days into the transfer window — for Ashley to agree to spend any real money at all.

 

Talking of which, where has the James Milner money gone?

 

You know, the £12 million that Ashley’s apologists, and even Kevin Keegan (in the mistaken belief that it would be re-invested), insisted was simply too good to turn down.

 

Yes, an absurd £5.7m was then spent on Xisco — the player Keegan didn’t want and who Kinnear, irony of ironies, was told he had to sell before he could buy.

 

Yes, another £10m had been gambled on Fabricio Coloccini.

 

But the departures of Milner, Emre (£2m), Abdoulaye Faye (£2.25m) and David Rozehnal (£2.9m) much more than covered the silly money spent at Deportivo la Coruna.

 

And where too is the £16-17m Newcastle were willing to pay for Luka Modric long before they banked any money last summer?

 

Sure, messrs Mbia or Neill might yet provide small mercies this month. But at what further cost? Given, Owen, N’Zogbia?

 

All things for fans to ponder as Ashley asks them — there’s that brass neck again — to fork out for season tickets years in advance.

 

They say time is a healer, but the memory of some of Keegan’s last words as United manager jar as painfully now — after an abject exit from the FA Cup denied fans any distraction from a relegation battle — as they did when he departed.

 

Of Milner, he said: “It’s a win-win . . . we can make a plus out of this. We can maybe slightly go in a different direction.

 

“The fans shouldn’t be worried. I’m certainly not and if I was worried I would tell them.”

 

That different direction? It may well be down. Those fans? They should be worried.

 

http://www.sundaysun.co.uk/news/columnists/2009/01/18/newcastle-being-run-responsibly-or-into-the-ground-79310-22715727/

 

[Guest neesy111]

You can't say Shepherd had no ability to run a football club.

 

I can, and I just did.

 

How can a man who is Chairman during some of the best league positions the club has ever had, then have no ability to run a football club?

 

far too logical a point there tooj

 

 

 

If shepard was here still we would be under administration. So i guess it could be worse than this afterall ..

 

rubbish

 

 

 

it wasn't rubbish, fatty would of found it impossible to remortgage the debts we had especially now

[Thespence]

 

Good to see you back posting HTL. Agree with a lot of your points, but I do not agree that the current administration is the worst in the club's history. Sure it's a big mess, but I do believe that Ashley is one decent adviser away from turning it around in a way that would make us relatively successful again, and make him more money than the current situation is.

 

Wasn't Keegan his "advisor" ?

 

 

 

No. Keegan needed his own advisors ffs!!! Plus I'm talking about someone who is not involved in the football, but rather in the running of the club. Think a football-clued up Chris Mort.

 

The ED(F) & MD should cover this.

 

Club statement  at the time regarding Wise role, he is the man at boardroom level with the football nous.

 

Chairman Chris Mort said: "This is all part of the vision that recently helped us to secure Kevin Keegan's return to the Club as manager.

 

"Two of the conclusions of our strategic review, since acquiring the Club, were that the Club would benefit from having a football person involved at Board level, which it has not had historically, and that further senior resources are needed for recruiting players of the highest quality from this country and further afield.

 

"Dennis would like to move away from day-to-day football management to a Board role and, with his considerable energy and intelligence, we believe he will do very well in this new position.

 

 

[timnufc22]

 

Good to see you back posting HTL. Agree with a lot of your points, but I do not agree that the current administration is the worst in the club's history. Sure it's a big mess, but I do believe that Ashley is one decent adviser away from turning it around in a way that would make us relatively successful again, and make him more money than the current situation is.

 

Wasn't Keegan his "advisor" ?

 

 

 

No. Keegan needed his own advisors ffs!!! Plus I'm talking about someone who is not involved in the football, but rather in the running of the club. Think a football-clued up Chris Mort.

 

The ED(F) & MD should cover this.

 

Club statement  at the time regarding Wise role, he is the man at boardroom level with the football nous.

 

Chairman Chris Mort said: "This is all part of the vision that recently helped us to secure Kevin Keegan's return to the Club as manager.

 

"Two of the conclusions of our strategic review, since acquiring the Club, were that the Club would benefit from having a football person involved at Board level, which it has not had historically, and that further senior resources are needed for recruiting players of the highest quality from this country and further afield.

 

"Dennis would like to move away from day-to-day football management to a Board role and, with his considerable energy and intelligence, we believe he will do very well in this new position.

 

 

 

Why not simply a scout? And why couldnt Keegan simply have his own scouts?

[garth]

I was never one who particularly wanted rid of Freddy, and I'm also one of those who don't believe that everything we currently see is down to Ashley.

 

Fred was on a downward slope, that much should be pretty much indisputable, but had he been able to generate a new partner to replace the Halls and inject some cash then he may have recovered - this we will never know.

 

I don't like the Chelsea and Man City approach to team building, and have always supported Ashleys apparent aim of buying talented young players and building from within. I had however envisaged that all of these youth players would be mixed with some experience.

 

If the bids for Modric and/or Aimar were genuine then it would support this view - and the signing of Colo suggests that money would be spent on the RIGHT individuals.

 

Where it has gone wrong was Ashley listening to the fans and bringing back Keegan, there was no way on Earth that Keegan could coexist with Wise et al (who I believe have done nothing wrong) once Mort left as Lambarse is one of Ashleys new boys leaving Keegan out on a limb. If we had been a bit creative we could have appointed a better long term manager than Keegan last Jan and we wouldn't be in this mess (note whilst I can't understand the timing of KK walking out I also dont put all of the blame on him).

 

Should we survive this season then the situation could be repaired, Lambarse has to go and ideally JFK will be thanked for having a go and he can get another role in Div 1 or something. We then need either a young manager such as Martinez to work within the structure or someone like Bruce to be given free reign.

 

One thing I cant forgive the current management team for is the lack of communication, this is making the situation worse imo as it leaves us fans with only specualtion that the staus quo is the best we can hope for.

 

I'm not going to get into a net-spend discussion here as its overplayed and some people don't seem to grasp the positives from being able to generate good fees for mediorcre players. I'm sure that should we shift Smith for £6m and signed Mbia for £!0m then people would complain that we've only spent £4m and would have been happier spending £15m and recuperating £1m.

 

 

Good post that!, agree with everything written here.

[Unbelievable]

Cracking article from Neil Farrington in the Sun there..

[Parky]

"How do we know he was ready to do this? Because it seemingly needed an SOS call from Kinnear — a full 13 days into the transfer window — for Ashley to agree to spend any real money at all."

 

 

[NJS]

I like the buy young and cheap policy. I don't want to be spunking away millions in the name of "ambition".

 

What's wrong with a mixture?

 

We're not going to be hitting Europe again any time soon so we have less money coming into the club.

 

Keeping Keegan instead of Wise and spending another £10-15m would probably have seen us qualify for Europe this year - how much will relegation cost?

 

 

 

[Guest Alan Shearer 9]

I like the buy young and cheap policy. I don't want to be spunking away millions in the name of "ambition".

 

What's wrong with a mixture?

 

We're not going to be hitting Europe again any time soon so we have less money coming into the club.

 

Keeping Keegan instead of Wise and spending another £10-15m would probably have seen us qualify for Europe this year - how much will relegation cost?

 

 

 

 

Bollocks. I reckon we'd be slightly better under Keegan.

[cp40]

I like the buy young and cheap policy. I don't want to be spunking away millions in the name of "ambition".

 

What's wrong with a mixture?

 

We're not going to be hitting Europe again any time soon so we have less money coming into the club.

 

Keeping Keegan instead of Wise and spending another £10-15m would probably have seen us qualify for Europe this year - how much will relegation cost?

 

 

 

 

 

 

It would have paid for itself.

[Dr Venkman]

we're rubbish but that doesnt mean shepherd is devoid of all blame. his time as chairman (not major shareholder, whatever, he was the 'man at the top') was an absolute disaster, stop pretending it wasnt.

[Unbelievable]

I like the buy young and cheap policy. I don't want to be spunking away millions in the name of "ambition".

 

What's wrong with a mixture?

 

We're not going to be hitting Europe again any time soon so we have less money coming into the club.

 

Keeping Keegan instead of Wise and spending another £10-15m would probably have seen us qualify for Europe this year - how much will relegation cost?

 

 

 

 

Bollocks. I reckon we'd be slightly better under Keegan.

 

Before the events of the summer transfer window end unfolded, most people felt our squad (and manager) would see us finish between 5th and 10th. I (and a few others) was ridiculed for saying our squad wasn't strong enough and predicting a lower table finish.

[Unbelievable]

we're rubbish but that doesnt mean shepherd is devoid of all blame. his time as chairman (not major shareholder, whatever, he was the 'man at the top') was an absolute disaster, stop pretending it wasnt.

 

It wasn't an absolute disaster. Although it didn't end well we also had a few seasons that we could only dream off now..

[Guest LucaAltieri]

I like the buy young and cheap policy. I don't want to be spunking away millions in the name of "ambition".

 

What's wrong with a mixture?

 

We're not going to be hitting Europe again any time soon so we have less money coming into the club.

 

Keeping Keegan instead of Wise and spending another £10-15m would probably have seen us qualify for Europe this year - how much will relegation cost?

 

 

 

 

Nothing wrong with a mixture and we have done it to an extent.

 

Under Keegan we'd be sitting in the top half now, I have no doubt. But he couldn't work under the current setup. The setup will give us more long-term than Keegan would have. The club is bigger than the individual. Keegan wasn't happy with that so he left - fair enough. Wish he'd thought about it before taking over in the first place, mind.

 

As for whether or not we'd actually make Europe this season if Keegan was still in charge; who knows? He's not here, and even if he'd been given an extra £5m -10m would that have made him happy enough to stay? Probably not.

[Skirge]

His ambition is to stay rich and play with his little toy football club as he see's fit.