NE5 Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 When have I ever said relegation would be a good thing? You make things up as you go along NE5! Relegation would be a terrible thing for Newcastle United, but there is no guarantee that under Shepherd we would be in any better of a situation and all evidence points to us being bankrupt, not just relegated. You seem to see things in a polarised view, you cannot comprehend that both Shepherd AND Ashley are not the men to run this club. You need to get out of Shepherd's rectum and smell the coffee. We would have been non-existant, never mind relegated had Shepherd still been here, spending money we didn't have to be no better than we are now. eeerrrr.......we'll just sit back and accept going down then. What do YOU think will happen to the club and its prospects if the gates go down to 30,000, and thats an optimistic figure ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 NE5, last sentence, no matter what, the last thing, or the worst thing a chairman/owner can do to a football club is, bring the club towards administration. Fred almost done that. 95% imo. Past record counts nothing in front of liquidators. I don't care what you have achieved, or what you claim you can achieve later --- sell all your assets, pay off the debts, and remember to file the case to the association and wait for point reduction penalty. End of story. You simply couldn't argue for Fred. I don't wanna waste time to evaluate everything he's done. Bring the club towards administration is enough to judge his era. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE5 Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 are you dismissing those positions on the basis that we didn't win a trophy under Keegan so you think previous to that was the good old days ? On that basis, do you think people like Joe Royle, Maurice Evans, Bobby Gould and John Sillet were better managers than Keegan because they won the FA or the League Cup mackems.gif I'm not sure how that answers the question although I'm not surprised about that. what are you harping on about now, I was highlighting the rubbish you spouted Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest toonlass Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 When have I ever said relegation would be a good thing? You make things up as you go along NE5! Relegation would be a terrible thing for Newcastle United, but there is no guarantee that under Shepherd we would be in any better of a situation and all evidence points to us being bankrupt, not just relegated. You seem to see things in a polarised view, you cannot comprehend that both Shepherd AND Ashley are not the men to run this club. You need to get out of Shepherd's rectum and smell the coffee. We would have been non-existant, never mind relegated had Shepherd still been here, spending money we didn't have to be no better than we are now. eeerrrr.......we'll just sit back and accept going down then. What do YOU think will happen to the club and its prospects if the gates go down to 30,000, and thats an optimistic figure ? Who is sitting there and accepting it though? I'm not. And I will still be there if the gates are 30,000 or 20,000 or 15,000. My question to you is: Do you accept that Shepherd was (at least partially) culpable for the financial state of the club when it was sold? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE5 Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 NE5, last sentence, no matter what, the last thing, or the worst thing a chairman/owner can do to a football club is, bring the club towards administration. Fred almost done that. 95% imo. Past record counts nothing in front of liquidators. I don't care what you have achieved, or what you claim you can achieve later --- sell all your assets, pay off the debts, and remember to file the case to the association and wait for point reduction penalty. End of story. You simply couldn't argue for Fred. I don't wanna waste time to evaluate everything he's done. Bring the club towards administration is enough to judge his era. So what do you think of the clubs prospects of ever getting back into europe if revenue is slashed due to poor results and a possible relegation ? What do you think of all those successful clubs who also aren't in debt ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 We nearly did. The debt ratio is horrible, the wage/revenue ratio is ridiculous, the Owen deal shouldn't be done because we simply couldn't afford him --- Fred has been making very, very risky decisions it was already not a "gamble" but "suicide". Yea you could say if they turn out to be success then no problem at all but that's the reason why Leeds was finished. http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-images/Arts/Arts_/site_furniture/2007/08/17/noisepollution460.jpg I have pity on NE5 to be honest. Just like a baby fighting with Tyson - never a match. NE5, next time please choose a better topic or stand. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 what are you harping on about now, I was highlighting the rubbish you spouted Like you did when you posted this? http://www.newcastle-online.org/nufcforum/index.php/topic,59575.msg1660471.html#msg1660471 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE5 Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 When have I ever said relegation would be a good thing? You make things up as you go along NE5! Relegation would be a terrible thing for Newcastle United, but there is no guarantee that under Shepherd we would be in any better of a situation and all evidence points to us being bankrupt, not just relegated. You seem to see things in a polarised view, you cannot comprehend that both Shepherd AND Ashley are not the men to run this club. You need to get out of Shepherd's rectum and smell the coffee. We would have been non-existant, never mind relegated had Shepherd still been here, spending money we didn't have to be no better than we are now. eeerrrr.......we'll just sit back and accept going down then. What do YOU think will happen to the club and its prospects if the gates go down to 30,000, and thats an optimistic figure ? Who is sitting there and accepting it though? I'm not. And I will still be there if the gates are 30,000 or 20,000 or 15,000. My question to you is: Do you accept that Shepherd was (at least partially) culpable for the financial state of the club when it was sold? I'll be there too, so thats 2 so far, but what do you think of the prospects of getting back among the top clubs if such a thing happens ? And, as I've just asked zero, what do you think we can do to rival those successful clubs who are managing to do it without being in debt ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE5 Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 what are you harping on about now, I was highlighting the rubbish you spouted Like you did when you posted this? http://www.newcastle-online.org/nufcforum/index.php/topic,59575.msg1660471.html#msg1660471 posted what ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest toonlass Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 Would you care to answer my question. I cannot answer yours as I cannot see into the future. I don't know. Don't underestimate how worried I am about the state of the club but Freddy Shepherd is the catalyst for the crap that has happened here in recent years. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 So what do you think of the clubs prospects of ever getting back into europe if revenue is slashed due to poor results and a possible relegation ? What do you think of all those successful clubs who also aren't in debt ? 1. Don't give me example like Chelsea. Debt towards owner is just like our current debt towards Ashley. Isn't really a kind of debt. 2. Man Utd/Liverpool and most debt-carrying clubs are generating enough revenue or has very good liquidity to give the creditors confidence that they can pay the debt. As a result they don't need to repay the debt in short-term. This is not the case for Newcastle, which the huge loan is just down to "personal credit" by Fred. Mind you personal credit counts nothing actually. There's a lot of clauses inside these kinda loan contract, so called loan covenant, that the debt needs to be paid immediately under several circumstances. Change of ownership is not the only one but just one of those terms. So don't try to say "if Ashley don't buy the club, we don't need to repay the debt soon and we won't face administration". Never. 3. Well I start to doubt whether you are really a Newcastle fans. So you are willing to take a gamble for "getting back into Europe" by "risking the club into administration". Are you ok? Don't say something like "No Europe, No Newcastle". You will be classified as glory seekers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 I'll be there too, so thats 2 so far, but what do you think of the prospects of getting back among the top clubs if such a thing happens ? And, as I've just asked zero, what do you think we can do to rival those successful clubs who are managing to do it without being in debt ? Err....sorry, I misunderstand your question as it's....well, a bit...silly to think in this way. I mean, I didn't expect your question is so....ridiculous, so I interpret it in another way. Don't you realise that it's Fred's fault that make us under such kinda debt!? And you are still defending him? We are in very good financial position under SBR era and tell me WTF was Viana's deal for? And Souness? Roeder? Allardyce with 4m compensation? The rocket-high wage/revenue ratio? We, originally, are one of "those successful clubs who are managing to do it without being in debt", and it's Fred who brings us down to hell! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colos Short and Curlies Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 So what do you think of the clubs prospects of ever getting back into europe if revenue is slashed due to poor results and a possible relegation ? What do you think of all those successful clubs who also aren't in debt ? 1. Don't give me example like Chelsea. Debt towards owner is just like our current debt towards Ashley. Isn't really a kind of debt. 2. Man Utd/Liverpool and most debt-carrying clubs are generating enough revenue or has very good liquidity to give the creditors confidence that they can pay the debt. As a result they don't need to repay the debt in short-term. This is not the case for Newcastle, which the huge loan is just down to "personal credit" by Fred. Mind you personal credit counts nothing actually. There's a lot of clauses inside these kinda loan contract, so called loan covenant, that the debt needs to be paid immediately under several circumstances. Change of ownership is not the only one but just one of those terms. So don't try to say "if Ashley don't buy the club, we don't need to repay the debt soon and we won't face administration". Never. 3. Well I start to doubt whether you are really a Newcastle fans. So you are willing to take a gamble for "getting back into Europe" by "risking the club into administration". Are you ok? Don't say something like "No Europe, No Newcastle". You will be classified as glory seekers. You are wrong about Liverpool btw, their debts are a long way from being secure Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 You are wrong about Liverpool btw, their debts are a long way from being secure It's actually quite secure. Consistent Champions League Last 8/4 results did give them very good revenue figure. They may have kinda short term liquidity problem but if the debts are asked to paid back immediately they do have the ability to pay off the debt. I agree though that their financial position aren't good and is already overspending. Couldn't afford another big-spending summer---and Benitiez may leave because of lack of funds. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredbob Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 You are wrong about Liverpool btw, their debts are a long way from being secure It's actually quite secure. Consistent Champions League Last 8/4 results did give them very good revenue figure. They may have kinda short term liquidity problem but if the debts are asked to paid back immediately they do have the ability to pay off the debt. I agree though that their financial position aren't good and is already overspending. Couldn't afford another big-spending summer---and Benitiez may leave because of lack of funds. So what do you think will happen if they dont qualfiy for the CL? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shearergol Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 I see Hull signed an England international this week. It's not like every club in the league is doing it is it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colos Short and Curlies Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 You are wrong about Liverpool btw, their debts are a long way from being secure It's actually quite secure. Consistent Champions League Last 8/4 results did give them very good revenue figure. They may have kinda short term liquidity problem but if the debts are asked to paid back immediately they do have the ability to pay off the debt. I agree though that their financial position aren't good and is already overspending. Couldn't afford another big-spending summer---and Benitiez may leave because of lack of funds. So what do you think will happen if they dont qualfiy for the CL? They borrowed 100% of the Torres fee and the repayments have started to kick in. They couldn't raise the finance for a new stadium. If they failed to qualify for the CL then Torres and maybe even Gerrard would be sold. Yes if required Gillett and Hicks could use their provate finance to repay any debt, but they would struggle to raise the same level of debt finance on their current model. Its a bit like saying Ashley has £800m in the bank so NUFC are safe and cash rich. The owners and the club are two seperate entities. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 So what do you think will happen if they dont qualfiy for the CL? Probably to have a zero-spending summer and use the season-ticket sales to pay off a portion of the debt so as to lower the debt ratio and the interest cost. They can afford a season without CL, but not two. If that's the case, we could see Torres going to Inter/RM/Barca whatever for 25-35m for paying off the debt. Unlikely to happen though. To kick Liverpool out of CL spot, Villa and the Gunners have to do even better next season. I fucking hope so tbh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colos Short and Curlies Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 So what do you think will happen if they dont qualfiy for the CL? Probably to have a zero-spending summer and use the season-ticket sales to pay off a portion of the debt so as to lower the debt ratio and the interest cost. They can afford a season without CL, but not two. If that's the case, we could see Torres going to Inter/RM/Barca whatever for 25-35m for paying off the debt. Unlikely to happen though. To kick Liverpool out of CL spot, Villa and the Gunners have to do even better next season. I fucking hope so tbh. They only need to finish third (which btw I think they will at best). They almost got knocked out in the prelims this season Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredbob Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 You are wrong about Liverpool btw, their debts are a long way from being secure It's actually quite secure. Consistent Champions League Last 8/4 results did give them very good revenue figure. They may have kinda short term liquidity problem but if the debts are asked to paid back immediately they do have the ability to pay off the debt. I agree though that their financial position aren't good and is already overspending. Couldn't afford another big-spending summer---and Benitiez may leave because of lack of funds. So what do you think will happen if they dont qualfiy for the CL? They borrowed 100% of the Torres fee and the repayments have started to kick in. They couldn't raise the finance for a new stadium. If they failed to qualify for the CL then Torres and maybe even Gerrard would be sold. Yes if required Gillett and Hicks could use their provate finance to repay any debt, but they would struggle to raise the same level of debt finance on their current model. Its a bit like saying Ashley has £800m in the bank so NUFC are safe and cash rich. The owners and the club are two seperate entities. They'd find themselves in a simlar position that we did in 2004 in my opinion. The CL money will be supplementing the debt repayment and if that we to go for one season it would be a seaon where potentially £50m (?) has gone missing. Liverpools debt is not safe at all in my opinion, Hicks and Co could fuck it up, massively. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 You are wrong about Liverpool btw, their debts are a long way from being secure It's actually quite secure. Consistent Champions League Last 8/4 results did give them very good revenue figure. They may have kinda short term liquidity problem but if the debts are asked to paid back immediately they do have the ability to pay off the debt. I agree though that their financial position aren't good and is already overspending. Couldn't afford another big-spending summer---and Benitiez may leave because of lack of funds. So what do you think will happen if they dont qualfiy for the CL? They borrowed 100% of the Torres fee and the repayments have started to kick in. They couldn't raise the finance for a new stadium. If they failed to qualify for the CL then Torres and maybe even Gerrard would be sold. Yes if required Gillett and Hicks could use their provate finance to repay any debt, but they would struggle to raise the same level of debt finance on their current model. Its a bit like saying Ashley has £800m in the bank so NUFC are safe and cash rich. The owners and the club are two seperate entities. They'd find themselves in a simlar position that we did in 2004 in my opinion. The CL money will be supplementing the debt repayment and if that we to go for one season it would be a seaon where potentially £50m (?) has gone missing. Liverpools debt is not safe at all in my opinion, Hicks and Co could fuck it up, massively. Totally agree with this, they we're expected to re-finance the debt before all of the latest bank problems etc, that's probably the reason why rafa has turned down the latest contract Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE5 Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 So what do you think of the clubs prospects of ever getting back into europe if revenue is slashed due to poor results and a possible relegation ? What do you think of all those successful clubs who also aren't in debt ? 1. Don't give me example like Chelsea. Debt towards owner is just like our current debt towards Ashley. Isn't really a kind of debt. 2. Man Utd/Liverpool and most debt-carrying clubs are generating enough revenue or has very good liquidity to give the creditors confidence that they can pay the debt. As a result they don't need to repay the debt in short-term. This is not the case for Newcastle, which the huge loan is just down to "personal credit" by Fred. Mind you personal credit counts nothing actually. There's a lot of clauses inside these kinda loan contract, so called loan covenant, that the debt needs to be paid immediately under several circumstances. Change of ownership is not the only one but just one of those terms. So don't try to say "if Ashley don't buy the club, we don't need to repay the debt soon and we won't face administration". Never. 3. Well I start to doubt whether you are really a Newcastle fans. So you are willing to take a gamble for "getting back into Europe" by "risking the club into administration". Are you ok? Don't say something like "No Europe, No Newcastle". You will be classified as glory seekers. show me where I've said anything like that, and if you think you are talking to a 5 year old, there are other people around ....... most of which actually really appear to stupidly think that you can be successful in football and not invest big money on players. I also didn't mention Chelsea, I'm aware just like you are that they are being bankrolled and not generating their own income to carry on in the way they do. When you talk about revenue, how many clubs have the fanbase to break into the Liverpool and Arsenal positions ? Not many, but we are one. How do you propose we do it, assuming you think we ought to attempt it ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest toonlass Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 When have I ever said relegation would be a good thing? You make things up as you go along NE5! Relegation would be a terrible thing for Newcastle United, but there is no guarantee that under Shepherd we would be in any better of a situation and all evidence points to us being bankrupt, not just relegated. You seem to see things in a polarised view, you cannot comprehend that both Shepherd AND Ashley are not the men to run this club. You need to get out of Shepherd's rectum and smell the coffee. We would have been non-existant, never mind relegated had Shepherd still been here, spending money we didn't have to be no better than we are now. eeerrrr.......we'll just sit back and accept going down then. What do YOU think will happen to the club and its prospects if the gates go down to 30,000, and thats an optimistic figure ? Who is sitting there and accepting it though? I'm not. And I will still be there if the gates are 30,000 or 20,000 or 15,000. My question to you is: Do you accept that Shepherd was (at least partially) culpable for the financial state of the club when it was sold? Seeing that I answered your question, would you care to answer mine NE5? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE5 Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 I'll be there too, so thats 2 so far, but what do you think of the prospects of getting back among the top clubs if such a thing happens ? And, as I've just asked zero, what do you think we can do to rival those successful clubs who are managing to do it without being in debt ? Err....sorry, I misunderstand your question as it's....well, a bit...silly to think in this way. I mean, I didn't expect your question is so....ridiculous, so I interpret it in another way. Don't you realise that it's Fred's fault that make us under such kinda debt!? And you are still defending him? We are in very good financial position under SBR era and tell me WTF was Viana's deal for? And Souness? Roeder? Allardyce with 4m compensation? The rocket-high wage/revenue ratio? We, originally, are one of "those successful clubs who are managing to do it without being in debt", and it's Fred who brings us down to hell! You sound like more like a monkey than an accountant. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 show me where I've said anything like that, and if you think you are talking to a 5 year old, there are other people around ....... most of which actually really appear to stupidly think that you can be successful in football and not invest big money on players. I also didn't mention Chelsea, I'm aware just like you are that they are being bankrolled and not generating their own income to carry on in the way they do. When you talk about revenue, how many clubs have the fanbase to break into the Liverpool and Arsenal positions ? Not many, but we are one. How do you propose we do it, assuming you think we ought to attempt it ? So you are saying "we should invest on players to chase Liverpool/Arsenal or to get Europe Competition while having bankrupt-like debts". "We ought to do it""We are a big club""We have the fan base" Meaningless in front of liquidators. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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