Fenham Mag Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Went to the academy today on 'official business' , the facilities are superb like. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Went to the academy today on 'official business' , the facilities are superb like. Money well spent. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottledDog Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Went to the academy today on 'official business' , the facilities are superb like. Money well spent. Hopefully. Yes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 In all seriousness it should be, that was one of the reason we kept losing out to Sunderland and the Smogs for local talent wasn't it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisMcQuillan Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Tbf, if the club came out and said £5-10m of the Carroll money had been reinvested in bringing our youth academy up to scratch with the best in the country, I'd be absolutely fine with that. It's better than Ashley using it to wipe his not insignificant arse cheeks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ObiChrisKenobi Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 I've said a number of times that improvements to the training ground and academy facilities were made with some of the money from the Andy Carroll sale. Yet, because its not an instant gain/improvement to the first team squad people balk at the idea. Sure a bore hole isn't going to score us goals, but it will save the club a load of money in the long run, its long term planning. Likewise the undersoil heating at the training facitilies, no one cares about it now, but come Winter when we're still training and can go largely unaffected by bad weather... The academy facilities are almost identical to the first team setup, its very impressive, and when the Elite Player Performance Plan (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/competitions/premier-league/8276220/Premier-League-plot-a-youth-revolution-in-English-football.html) comes into play (if it does), Newcastle should be in line for a decent grade, better long term funding, and greater benefits (money/grants and quality of player) due to the investment. These are basic things a club of our stature should have had for a long, long time. Don't know about anyone else, but how many years have people sat there and envied 'Boro, recently Sunderland, certainly Man U, Everton and West Ham as they seemingly managed to produce 2-3 Premier League sufficient, at least, calibre of players to put into their squads. Homegrown talent. Local lads. When you look over the list of 'notable' players that Newcastle has managed to produce in the last decade or so (going off League debut), its not really stellar (no offence to any of the players listed!): 2011: Michael Richardson+ 2010: Shane Ferguson, Haris Vuckic, Sammy Ameobi, Phil Airey+, James Tavernier+, Jóan Símun Edmundsson*+ 2009: Ryan Donladson, Matthew Grieves+ (NL), Nile Ranger*, 2008: Tamás Kadar*, Ben Tozer*+ (L2), Wesley Ngo Baheng* (Non), Fraser Forster+ (SPL), 2007: Kazenga LuaLua, James Troisi+ (TUR), 2006: Ben Smith+ (L2), Tim Krul*, Paul Huntington (L1), Andy Carroll (EPL), 2005: David Edgar (CH), Matty Pattison (SAF), Daryl Smylie+ (SWE), 2004: Peter Ramage (CH), Martin Brittain (BSP), Lewis Guy+ (L2/L1), Charles N'Zogbia* (EPL), Alan O'Brien (L1), 2003: Neale McDermott+ (Malta), Calvin Zola+ (L2), Phil Cave+ (BSN), Steven Taylor, Tomi Ameobi+ (Ice), 2002: Adam Collin+ (L1), Richard Offiong+ (Aus), David Cowen+ (Scot), Joe Kendrick+ (BSP), Bradley Orr*+ (EPL), 2001: Gary Caldwell*+ (EPL), Adam Rundle+ (BSP), Brian Kerr (Scot), 2000: Michael Chopra (CH), *Bought from another club +League Debut with another club (Current League Level) Players in Bold have played in the Premier League Players Lost to other Academies: Adam Johnson (Boro) Michael Carrick (West Ham) Jack Colback (Sunderland) Liam Nobles (Sunderland) Louis Laing (Sunderland) Most of this is off the top of my head, so by no means is it comprehensive, or even entirely accurate (for 6am in the morning). So we've managed to produce 15 or so players that have played in the Premier league since 2000. Is this good, is this poor? Of the 15 8 are currently still playing in the Premier League. Of the 8 5 have made more than 10 appearances in the Premier League. If you look at the 10 years before 2000: Lee Clark Steve Watson Steve Harper Steven Taylor Steve Howey Steve Caldwell Robbie Elliott Aaron Hughes Jamie McClen Shola Ameobi Matty Appleby Alan Neilson 12 Players who played more than 10 games in the Premier League James Coppinger Paul Arnison Stuart Elliott Alun Armstrong Paul Brayson Stuart Green 6 Players that managed a decent career at various levels. Obviously the Premier League has evolved a lot since the 90s, so you could argue its harder for younger talent to break into a side, but still, we've produced half as many Premier League 'quality' players since the 90s (at least from this off the top of my head list). Its entirely possible that an in depth look (which time and resources I'm lacking at the moment) will show a different picture - could be better, could be worse. Certainly, think it could be worse, if I was to try and include every player that has passed through the Newcastle Academy since 2000, with most of them ending up out of football, or Northern League (though that's to be expected and is the same across the country). If I was to try and compare it to another club, say Boro and Sunderland, again, we might look better or worse. Though off the top of my head I feel like Boro have produced more Premier League players than Newcastle. Currently the club has more youth coaches than its ever had, coaches with a high degree of coaching experience and qualifications. They've actively tried to recruit proven Youth Coaches that have helped other clubs produce a successful youth team (Willie Donachie - Man City, Frankie Bunn - Man City, and if rumours are true Ricky Sbraga - Sunderland). We have one of the most highly regarded young youth coaches in the North-East in Liam Bramley coaching our U16 squad, which in 2010 managed to get into the World Nike Cup for the first time in the club's history. In the process Adam Campbell was voted the MVP, which isn't something to be dismissed. They've finally, after several years of inactivity, started to take an interest in Grassroots football again (could be a coincidence this is happening under Mike Ashley's reign). We're actively recruiting and scouting at youth level again. Maybe even for the first time. I believe that's largely down to a stable structure, and a scouting network setup by Tony Jimenez & Jeff Vetere, who have a proven history of setting up good youth policies and structures. Its also the first time a long time we've had a stable structure at the Academy level with Joe Joyce overseeing the Academy since 2006. The last time we had anyone in his position for so long was in the late 90s and Early 00's when we arguably produced our best home grown talent (Taylor, Shola, Chopra, Hughes etc), until recently, with Alan Irvine in charge of the Academy. So, it looks like we've finally caught up on years of constant change at Academy Level. When Irvine left Kenny Wharton, John Carver & Glenn Roeder switched as Head of the Academy (all of which coincided with a change of 1st team manager). The Academy seems to now by an autonomous set up immune to 1st team management changes, which is a good thing, however, its still working closely, if not as close as its ever been, with the first team, due to the introduction of a Reserve/Development squad (looked after by Peter Beardsley). The Development squad is the first time, as far as I can ever remember, where Newcastle have kept a pool of players after the Academy to allow the younger talent to keep developing (rather than cutting ties at 18). Man U have done this for years, with '21' being the cut off age for most of their talent - if they haven't made the grade by then they're sold on or released (often sold on for a fair bit of profit). This only makes sense, considering the new Premier League squad registration rules that allow for U21s to play without being registered. Also financially it makes sense too, since Newcastle can claim compensation for their time and resources for any players that leave the club to join another before their 21st Birthday (as long as they haven't been released). I'm not entirely sure what my point is with this post, I just feel that the time and efforts that the club have put into the Academy (and Development Squad which I group together) often go overlooked and unappreciated. We're trying. For the first time in a decade we're actually seeing some sort of result from the Academy, yet little notice is paid as people would prefer to worry about money from a transfer, and instant rewards to the first team. Whereas years ago it would have been us spending £15m-£35m to bring in talent to the first team to fruitlessly fight to fit into the Top 4 of the league. We sold a locally produced player for £35m - a transfer record for a British player. A player that could have been on Sunderland's books, but was swayed to join the Newcastle Academy -possibly because he loves the club (though that hasn't stopped others joining Boro or Sunderland). But we might not have even been in the position to have produced a player to sell for £35m (all Jan Transfer window factors aside). Genuinely optimistic about the club, despite what might or might not be happening with the first team. Alan Pardew, for whatever reason, is utilising and taking advantage of the youth players coming through into the development squad, we haven't had a manager like that since Bobby Robson (not saying the two are same or even comparable just pointing out how long its been). Just look at the player threads for Shane Ferguson, Haris Vuckic and Sammy Ameobi (obviously Nile Ranger too), for how daft some of the posts might be in them, at least people are happy/hysterical, dare I suggest, cautiously optimistic about the young players. We haven't had that for a LONG time. Ask binnsy, or anyone else who goes to watch the Development/Youth team regularly (or even start at page 1 of this thread and work your way through) and they'll tell you how impressive the 2009-2010 youth team were. Not only were they Quarter Finalists in the FA Youth Cup (the furthest Newcastle have managed since the 80s), but their football was fantastic too. There's a good batch of footballers in that group. Its no coincidence that a handful of them are now in and around the First Team. They might not become world beaters, but right now its a bit of hope, a bit of excitement for us as fans. I can only imagine what it might be like for other players in the Development Squad to see their team mates and peers get a chance in the First Team. If they have any sense about them that's one huge incentive - there is a door, it is open, put your foot in it and show them what you can do. Last Saturday we beat Chelsea 4-3 in the U18s league. OK, that might not mean anything, but to me that's a bit of hope. Chelsea, arguably, have one of the best Youth Setups in England, and have ploughed millions into its development over the last 5 years or so. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRC Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Nice post. Especially at this time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveMc Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Cracking post mate - lets hope all the investment pays off Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cubaricho Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Wish more people on this board would read that post. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveMc Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 You do, of course, realise that this makes you an 'Ashley Apologist' and that the young uns won 4-3 against Chelsea. Seriously though - I'm really optimistic about what is being done at youth level. Long may it continue. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ObiChrisKenobi Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 You do, of course, realise that this makes you an 'Ashley Apologist' and that the young uns won 4-3 against Chelsea. Seriously though - I'm really optimistic about what is being done at youth level. Long may it continue. Knew I'd make a slight somewhere, probably a few more if I really look over it. Edited the post now, thanks. I know for obvious reasons not everyone can take an active interest in the club's youth teams, but they shouldn't be dismissed entirely either. I know they'll be cynical people who will dismiss it all as 'another youngster to sell', 'Ashley is making money' and so on, but the fact is if Ashley sold the club tomorrow, Newcastle United would still have the same Youth Structure it has now (for whoever takes over). Its a long term investment. To think 15 or so years ago Kevin Keegan removed the reserves and the youth team too... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geordie Ahmed Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Great post OCK, enjoyed reading that I think it is great that we are taking the youth structure seriously and properly investing into. I love following (via this thread mainly) the academy and reserve side, it is exciting BUT I would add that it is possible to both admire the effort into the youth structure and be dismayed at the amateurish way the first team recruitment is being conducted (the left back and striker search primarily). I don't think you will find anyone that thinks spending money on the academy is a waste of time Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ObiChrisKenobi Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Certainly not, but its the lack of interest and understanding towards the efforts put into the Academy that needed attention. Long term planning is something we've lacked for years. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geordie Ahmed Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Certainly not, but its the lack of interest and understanding towards the efforts put into the Academy that needed attention. Long term planning is something we've lacked for years. Absolutely I agree, was frustrating reading about local lads going to other clubs because our academy was poor. Hopefully that is a thing of the past Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtype Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Fabulous post. Obviously it would be great if the first team could be managed as smartly as the academy, but failing that at least we've got some hope! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallace Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Sounds good stuff and it good that you have an insight into all of this and so are able to tell us what is happening. If the club were a bit more open and explained this properly instead of saying we are copying Arsenal then Villa then another club which gives the impression that there is a lack of cohesive planning behind the scenes, I am sure supporters would be more appreciative. Is the relationship any better with the local boys' clubs because they have been very vocal about the way they feel they have been treated by NUFC in the past? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonsays Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 You do, of course, realise that this makes you an 'Ashley Apologist' and that the young uns won 4-3 against Chelsea. Seriously though - I'm really optimistic about what is being done at youth level. Long may it continue. I think he's safe from those accusations as the people who dish them out seem to stick exclusively to the 'transfer rumours in the press' and 'twitter bollocks' threads. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattypnufc Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Fucking hell...I dismissed that post as a ridiculously long read...then read it and found it informative and insightful. I've been to a few reserve/development matches over the last few seasons and I totally agree, finally some decent foundations are in place to help us bring through talent, rather than having to rely on making 4m purchases for mediocre players when we have exciting ones coming through already. Fergie being one that has impressed me. Jak Alnwick is also a fantastic little 'keeper whilst Richardson is a star find. Also nice to see a bit of positivity. As long as we integrate the youth with experience there’s some fairly exciting times ahead in the future if we can resist bids for them anyhow. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanSkÃrare Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Top post OCK, nice to hear. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginola Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Great read that, Chris. We've certainly needed some improvement in the youth setup, so it's positive that something is being done about it. Hopefully we'll see a few make the most of their potential and a few more promising talents come through in the coming years. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ObiChrisKenobi Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Is the relationship any better with the local boys' clubs because they have been very vocal about the way they feel they have been treated by NUFC in the past? Still seems to be a bit of an issue between Boys Clubs and the Academy teams. Players aren't told they can't play for anyone else, but... also there tends to be a bit of a hang up over compensation, though I couldn't say (since I really have no idea) which side causes the issue. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazzle Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 The bit about Pardew giving youth a chance has yet to be proven IMO. He's made statements to the press about giving youth a chance but I personally think he could've given Ferguson a lot more game time last season, he seemed hesitant to play him even though when he did actually come in he was perfectly fine. This season Vuckic has yet to even make the bench despite a positive pre-season. Pardew has let players go on loan which is good but I don't think he has proven to be a massive supporter of youth (yet!). Some interesting points raised in your post OCK but I'm not sure if you're putting the improvements down to Ashley? I agree good changes has been made in Ashley's reign but that's got nothing to do with Carroll joining the academy as he arrived before Ashley. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ObiChrisKenobi Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Pardew has already allowed Tavernier, Edmundsson, Donaldson, Tozer, Kadar and Forster go out on loan. That's more than any previous manager has really done, though they all said they'd give youth a chance, or get them out on loan for 1st team football (only for them to sit about doing neither). Though when players have impressed they have been in and around the 1st team as a reward, Vuckic was part of the Match Day Squad against Sunderalnd, but wasn't selected for the bench. Likewise so was Sammy Ameobi. So its not as if their efforts have been forgotten about and they've been put back into Development Squad rotation. Wasn't crediting Carroll joining the Academy as an Ashley achievement, just an example of someone who could have went either way but chose us for once (though since then several have went to Sunderland). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallace Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Is the relationship any better with the local boys' clubs because they have been very vocal about the way they feel they have been treated by NUFC in the past? Still seems to be a bit of an issue between Boys Clubs and the Academy teams. Players aren't told they can't play for anyone else, but... also there tends to be a bit of a hang up over compensation, though I couldn't say (since I really have no idea) which side causes the issue. I seem to remember reading that Sunderland were looking to move in and develop closer links with the clubs in Newcastle because of the friction between NUFC and the Boys Clubs so I hope the issues have been sorted. It is one thing for NUFC to act the big bully at senior level but it does not seem the right thing to do at the lower end of the scale. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
80 Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 So, I was coming down here to compliment your post, but then see every other bugger already has done. Still worth doing, though, nice one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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