If we stay up, what then?

[NE5]

Ashley is running his "business model" exactly as he intended now

 

 

 

get a grip man

 

why do you disagree ?

 

his business model was for us to be in the bottom 3 in early april was it?

 

there's a huge difference between frustratingly incompetent decision making and "a plan" as we saw with FS

 

the man is fucking up royally, to say he's following a plan is mental - i don't even think he's following his original financial plan due to a number of external factors that have occurred since he bought the club, never mind any football plan he might have had

 

that's why and it gives him precisely 0% credit before you start

 

 

I said business model, not football model. He thought that we would always get capacity crowds, or close to, whatever our league position, and probably thought we always had had capacity crowds. In other words he was a clueless tosspot like many other people.

 

What he doesn't understand - like many other people - is that the success on the pitch drives the success of the business [in an industry where very few clubs if any make profits] and not the other way around.

 

I've seen many blind views on these message boards over the years, but the blind and misunderstood hatred of the old regime is by far the worst, which I could understand up to a point by those who didn't know any different, but what amazes me now is the amount of people still clinging to it, and attempting to justify Ashley watching the team go down and down while clinging to his "plan", whatever it is.

 

 

 

you didn't read a single fucking word i wrote did you?

 

i'm so disappointed in myself that i even got involved again, find someone else mate i know you talk a modicum of sense but i'm refusing to be ignored in discussions these days...if you want to acknowledge the precipice the club was on before ashley bought it then we'll talk otherwise lets carry on with the detente, i prefer it that way

 

of course I read what you said..........but I think his "plan" is first and foremost to just make a profit. Throw in lots of football related knowledge he didn't have, and you get out what we have now. Basically, I agree with what cp40 is saying. He has misjudged our support in terms of the extent of it, foolishly thinking we would draw those crowds whatever happened, and decided he would spend less and just stay in the premirership.

 

All he had to do was look at the history books and he would have seen that it was the old regime who attracted the crowds back to the club, sadly Ashley is driving them out again.

 

 

 

PROFIT?  still?  really?

 

are you dr manhattan or something?

 

it's not rocket science, this like.

 

evidently your inability to understand what profit means is

 

I do understand. I also understood what would happen to the club when it became clear to me what path Ashley was going to try and take.

 

 

so, you understand no-one is currently making a profit, nor are they likely to in the very near future?

 

I've already said very few teams actually make a profit in football. Success on the field can be a costly exercise, its certainly a high risk one, and should be understood by anyone who wants to get into football.

 

 

[juniatmoko]

Ashley is running his "business model" exactly as he intended now

 

 

 

get a grip man

 

why do you disagree ?

 

his business model was for us to be in the bottom 3 in early april was it?

 

there's a huge difference between frustratingly incompetent decision making and "a plan" as we saw with FS

 

the man is f***ing up royally, to say he's following a plan is mental - i don't even think he's following his original financial plan due to a number of external factors that have occurred since he bought the club, never mind any football plan he might have had

 

that's why and it gives him precisely 0% credit before you start

 

 

I said business model, not football model. He thought that we would always get capacity crowds, or close to, whatever our league position, and probably thought we always had had capacity crowds. In other words he was a clueless tosspot like many other people.

 

What he doesn't understand - like many other people - is that the success on the pitch drives the success of the business [in an industry where very few clubs if any make profits] and not the other way around.

 

I've seen many blind views on these message boards over the years, but the blind and misunderstood hatred of the old regime is by far the worst, which I could understand up to a point by those who didn't know any different, but what amazes me now is the amount of people still clinging to it, and attempting to justify Ashley watching the team go down and down while clinging to his "plan", whatever it is.

 

 

 

you didn't read a single f***ing word i wrote did you?

 

i'm so disappointed in myself that i even got involved again, find someone else mate i know you talk a modicum of sense but i'm refusing to be ignored in discussions these days...if you want to acknowledge the precipice the club was on before ashley bought it then we'll talk otherwise lets carry on with the detente, i prefer it that way

 

of course I read what you said..........but I think his "plan" is first and foremost to just make a profit. Throw in lots of football related knowledge he didn't have, and you get out what we have now. Basically, I agree with what cp40 is saying. He has misjudged our support in terms of the extent of it, foolishly thinking we would draw those crowds whatever happened, and decided he would spend less and just stay in the premirership.

 

All he had to do was look at the history books and he would have seen that it was the old regime who attracted the crowds back to the club, sadly Ashley is driving them out again.

 

 

 

PROFIT?  still?  really?

 

are you dr manhattan or something?

 

it's not rocket science, this like.

 

evidently your inability to understand what profit means is

 

I do understand. I also understood what would happen to the club when it became clear to me what path Ashley was going to try and take.

 

 

so, you understand no-one is currently making a profit, nor are they likely to in the very near future?

 

I've already said very few teams actually make a profit in football. Success on the field can be a costly exercise, its certainly a high risk one, and should be understood by anyone who wants to get into football.

 

 

 

very wrong statement...  actually every team makes profit... the difference was only on the percentage.

it shouldn't be called business if it wasn't profitable isn't it?

[Dave]

Is there an example of anyone attempting to justify us being relegated? Anyone at all.

[NE5]

Ashley is running his "business model" exactly as he intended now

 

 

 

get a grip man

 

why do you disagree ?

 

his business model was for us to be in the bottom 3 in early april was it?

 

there's a huge difference between frustratingly incompetent decision making and "a plan" as we saw with FS

 

the man is f***ing up royally, to say he's following a plan is mental - i don't even think he's following his original financial plan due to a number of external factors that have occurred since he bought the club, never mind any football plan he might have had

 

that's why and it gives him precisely 0% credit before you start

 

 

I said business model, not football model. He thought that we would always get capacity crowds, or close to, whatever our league position, and probably thought we always had had capacity crowds. In other words he was a clueless tosspot like many other people.

 

What he doesn't understand - like many other people - is that the success on the pitch drives the success of the business [in an industry where very few clubs if any make profits] and not the other way around.

 

I've seen many blind views on these message boards over the years, but the blind and misunderstood hatred of the old regime is by far the worst, which I could understand up to a point by those who didn't know any different, but what amazes me now is the amount of people still clinging to it, and attempting to justify Ashley watching the team go down and down while clinging to his "plan", whatever it is.

 

 

 

you didn't read a single f***ing word i wrote did you?

 

i'm so disappointed in myself that i even got involved again, find someone else mate i know you talk a modicum of sense but i'm refusing to be ignored in discussions these days...if you want to acknowledge the precipice the club was on before ashley bought it then we'll talk otherwise lets carry on with the detente, i prefer it that way

 

of course I read what you said..........but I think his "plan" is first and foremost to just make a profit. Throw in lots of football related knowledge he didn't have, and you get out what we have now. Basically, I agree with what cp40 is saying. He has misjudged our support in terms of the extent of it, foolishly thinking we would draw those crowds whatever happened, and decided he would spend less and just stay in the premirership.

 

All he had to do was look at the history books and he would have seen that it was the old regime who attracted the crowds back to the club, sadly Ashley is driving them out again.

 

 

 

PROFIT?  still?  really?

 

are you dr manhattan or something?

 

it's not rocket science, this like.

 

evidently your inability to understand what profit means is

 

I do understand. I also understood what would happen to the club when it became clear to me what path Ashley was going to try and take.

 

 

so, you understand no-one is currently making a profit, nor are they likely to in the very near future?

 

I've already said very few teams actually make a profit in football. Success on the field can be a costly exercise, its certainly a high risk one, and should be understood by anyone who wants to get into football.

 

 

 

very wrong statement...  actually every team makes profit... the difference was only on the percentage.

it shouldn't be called business if it wasn't profitable isn't it?

 

pointing out this, shouldn't really be necessary

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/2301797/Deloitte-football-finance-review-Club-by-club-Premier-League-analysis.html

 

[Offshore]

If we stay up and Ashley's intention is still to sell the club then we're looking at JFK or similar to keep us 'ticking' over, not spend too much and keep us in the main shop window (premiership).

 

If we stay up and Ashley's intention is to keep the club then we're looking at a completely different scenario to above, i'd say that regardless of offering JFK a long-term contract he'll either thank him and punt him upstairs or thank him and hope he does well in his 2nd retirement (more likely), either way we get a new manager in and start again.

 

Mind you, he could always honour his offer and JFK stays on I suppose.

 

However, as he showed with Allardyce, he is prepared to be ruthless when he wants to and if his intention is to keep the club then he'll have to start growing a pair again.

 

 

[Mistle17]

If Ashley gets rid of Kinnear as manager, then I might just be open to giving him another (undeserved) chance. But it depends who he replaces him with, I guess. Probably some utter horseshyte manager...

 

Jesus, Ashley- look what you've done! You've f*cking ruined us!

[Guest Brummiemag]

If we stay up then its same again next season

[Jayson]

Unless everyone thinks Martins, Beye, Barton, Guthrie, Jonas, Duff, Bassong will ALL be seriously injured again next season.......why be so negative about the idea of us staying up.

 

Even with a seriously crap manager....the better the players available the better we'll play. We've been destroyed by key injurys this entire season, more so than anything else.

[Decky]

Unless everyone thinks Martins, Beye, Barton, Guthrie, Jonas, Duff, Bassong will ALL be seriously injured again next season.......why be so negative about the idea of us staying up.

 

Even with a seriously crap manager....the better the players available the better we'll play. We've been destroyed by key injurys this entire season, more so than anything else.

 

Not really, a couple of times this season we got plenty of players back and JK didnt know what to do with them, we still went on to lose games.

[Guest Brummiemag]

In all my life I've never felt so negative.

 

I hope I'm wrong but with Ashley there I think it will be a decade or more before we play in Europe again. This bloke will take us down to the Championship and maybe further

[Jayson]

Unless everyone thinks Martins, Beye, Barton, Guthrie, Jonas, Duff, Bassong will ALL be seriously injured again next season.......why be so negative about the idea of us staying up.

 

Even with a seriously crap manager....the better the players available the better we'll play. We've been destroyed by key injurys this entire season, more so than anything else.

 

Not really, a couple of times this season we got plenty of players back and JK didnt know what to do with them, we still went on to lose games.

 

When was the last game we got most of those players back ?

Last time i can think of was our wins over Villa & W brom. Even then we didnt play Bassong or Guthrie.

 

The closest we've come to having them all back was our 0-0 with chelsea & even then we had Barton our best attacking midfielder out.

 

After the west brom game our next 8 games went - WWLDDDWW. The game we lost (Fulham) was when we brought Cacapa in, who singlehandedly cocked it up. We werent doing badly. Then we lost Martins, Guthrie, Beye to add onto Barton being out......

 

Thats when we turned shockingly bad after the liverpool game. Not a coincidence. No point being negative for the sake of it, realistically with our best players back we're not a bad side EVEN under kinnear. We're atleast midtable, defo not relegation contenders.

[Kitman]

I honestly think we're going down, sorry to be pessimistic.  We're a shambles from top to bottom, we lack confidence, belief, shape, fitness, results.  We don't need our best players back, we don't need Joe Kinnear, we need a big fucking dollop of luck.  Maybe Joe's got a pair of lucky underpants he puts on for his relegation battles.

[juniatmoko]

Ashley is running his "business model" exactly as he intended now

 

 

 

get a grip man

 

why do you disagree ?

 

his business model was for us to be in the bottom 3 in early april was it?

 

there's a huge difference between frustratingly incompetent decision making and "a plan" as we saw with FS

 

the man is f***ing up royally, to say he's following a plan is mental - i don't even think he's following his original financial plan due to a number of external factors that have occurred since he bought the club, never mind any football plan he might have had

 

that's why and it gives him precisely 0% credit before you start

 

 

I said business model, not football model. He thought that we would always get capacity crowds, or close to, whatever our league position, and probably thought we always had had capacity crowds. In other words he was a clueless tosspot like many other people.

 

What he doesn't understand - like many other people - is that the success on the pitch drives the success of the business [in an industry where very few clubs if any make profits] and not the other way around.

 

I've seen many blind views on these message boards over the years, but the blind and misunderstood hatred of the old regime is by far the worst, which I could understand up to a point by those who didn't know any different, but what amazes me now is the amount of people still clinging to it, and attempting to justify Ashley watching the team go down and down while clinging to his "plan", whatever it is.

 

 

 

you didn't read a single f***ing word i wrote did you?

 

i'm so disappointed in myself that i even got involved again, find someone else mate i know you talk a modicum of sense but i'm refusing to be ignored in discussions these days...if you want to acknowledge the precipice the club was on before ashley bought it then we'll talk otherwise lets carry on with the detente, i prefer it that way

 

of course I read what you said..........but I think his "plan" is first and foremost to just make a profit. Throw in lots of football related knowledge he didn't have, and you get out what we have now. Basically, I agree with what cp40 is saying. He has misjudged our support in terms of the extent of it, foolishly thinking we would draw those crowds whatever happened, and decided he would spend less and just stay in the premirership.

 

All he had to do was look at the history books and he would have seen that it was the old regime who attracted the crowds back to the club, sadly Ashley is driving them out again.

 

 

 

PROFIT?  still?  really?

 

are you dr manhattan or something?

 

it's not rocket science, this like.

 

evidently your inability to understand what profit means is

 

I do understand. I also understood what would happen to the club when it became clear to me what path Ashley was going to try and take.

 

 

so, you understand no-one is currently making a profit, nor are they likely to in the very near future?

 

I've already said very few teams actually make a profit in football. Success on the field can be a costly exercise, its certainly a high risk one, and should be understood by anyone who wants to get into football.

 

 

 

very wrong statement...  actually every team makes profit... the difference was only on the percentage.

it shouldn't be called business if it wasn't profitable isn't it?

 

pointing out this, shouldn't really be necessary

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/2301797/Deloitte-football-finance-review-Club-by-club-Premier-League-analysis.html

 

 

from what i am understood from that... if they haven't got any profit how they paid the debt?

[Skirge]

Ashley sells us, with any luck.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

If we stay up we won't struggle as badly next season. Even though we don't have a massive squad we have the quality to do OK if we can keep enough players fit.

 

If we add another few signings of the same quality of previous ones we will be much improved.

 

Not sure we will stay up sadly.

[Dave]

The voting is much closer than I expected, particularly considering the posts in this thread.

 

40% expect us to do alright next year, which surprises me.

[Tooj]

If we stay up we won't struggle as badly next season. Even though we don't have a massive squad we have the quality to do OK if we can keep enough players fit.

 

If we add another few signings of the same quality of previous ones we will be much improved.

 

Not sure we will stay up sadly.

 

The key for me is getting a good manager in.

[mrmojorisin75]

If we stay up we won't struggle as badly next season. Even though we don't have a massive squad we have the quality to do OK if we can keep enough players fit.

 

If we add another few signings of the same quality of previous ones we will be much improved.

 

Not sure we will stay up sadly.

 

The key for me is getting a good manager in.

 

and where do you think you're gonna find this key?  up the tooth fairys arse?

[NG32]

If we stay up we won't struggle as badly next season. Even though we don't have a massive squad we have the quality to do OK if we can keep enough players fit.

 

If we add another few signings of the same quality of previous ones we will be much improved.

 

Not sure we will stay up sadly.

 

The key for me is getting a good manager in.

 

and where do you think you're gonna find this key?  up the tooth fairys arse?

 

Thats where denise wise found kinnear.

[Mowen]

Ashley is running his "business model" exactly as he intended now

 

 

 

get a grip man

 

why do you disagree ?

 

his business model was for us to be in the bottom 3 in early april was it?

 

there's a huge difference between frustratingly incompetent decision making and "a plan" as we saw with FS

 

the man is fucking up royally, to say he's following a plan is mental - i don't even think he's following his original financial plan due to a number of external factors that have occurred since he bought the club, never mind any football plan he might have had

 

that's why and it gives him precisely 0% credit before you start

 

 

I said business model, not football model. He thought that we would always get capacity crowds, or close to, whatever our league position, and probably thought we always had had capacity crowds. In other words he was a clueless tosspot like many other people.

 

What he doesn't understand - like many other people - is that the success on the pitch drives the success of the business [in an industry where very few clubs if any make profits] and not the other way around.

 

I've seen many blind views on these message boards over the years, but the blind and misunderstood hatred of the old regime is by far the worst, which I could understand up to a point by those who didn't know any different, but what amazes me now is the amount of people still clinging to it, and attempting to justify Ashley watching the team go down and down while clinging to his "plan", whatever it is.

 

 

 

you didn't read a single fucking word i wrote did you?

 

i'm so disappointed in myself that i even got involved again, find someone else mate i know you talk a modicum of sense but i'm refusing to be ignored in discussions these days...if you want to acknowledge the precipice the club was on before ashley bought it then we'll talk otherwise lets carry on with the detente, i prefer it that way

 

of course I read what you said..........but I think his "plan" is first and foremost to just make a profit. Throw in lots of football related knowledge he didn't have, and you get out what we have now. Basically, I agree with what cp40 is saying. He has misjudged our support in terms of the extent of it, foolishly thinking we would draw those crowds whatever happened, and decided he would spend less and just stay in the premirership.

 

All he had to do was look at the history books and he would have seen that it was the old regime who attracted the crowds back to the club, sadly Ashley is driving them out again.

 

Everyone's 'plan' is to make a profit. The previous regime did it, and just about everyone else in football is looking to do it. There aren't many philanthropists about. I think Ashley's main crime is a lack of football knowledge. His first thoughts were first and foremost to cut expenditures whilst maintaining premierleague football (in the short term at least). This is the most obvious way to go about getting a profit, and should have been possible (not defending the concept btw) as we were well overplaying for the quality of players at our disposal.

 

Unfortunately for him (and more importantly us) the way he went about this - as we have seen - was absolutely shambolic. It's ended up with a huge gamble on us having enough to beat the drop this season - as he must realise that this would cost him more money than £20m-worth of players would have done in January.

 

If, and sadly it's a huge if these days, we stay up the real question is will he do the same again? A blind man could see we need more investment than we've had this season, otherwise we'll be heading down sooner rather than later. Can he pull his head far enough out of the sand to see this? My worry is that if he doesn't get in some people who understand what's going on ASAP it'll be more of the same. Which, quite frankly, would be a disgrace, and show him up to be even more clueless than he's demonstrated so far.

 

The real shame for me is that in Keegan he had almost the ideal man (within our reaches anyway) who could take this club forward, understood what it meant to be successful in this division and could compensate for Mike's lack of footballing knowledge. Screwed that one up as well, eh Mike.

[Jayson]

Injurys screw us more each season than the lack of new signings. If we stay up there has to be some sort of investigation into it, cant just keep it going.

 

Only reason they dont is because the fans say little about it as if its normal. Its clearly not in our case, if we made a lot of noise they'd do more about it.

[NG32]

Injurys screw us more each season than the lack of new signings. If we stay up there has to be some sort of investigation into it, cant just keep it going.

 

Only reason they dont is because the fans say little about it as if its normal. Its clearly not in our case, if we made a lot of noise they'd do more about it.

 

This is a club which is failing from top to bottom, we need a complete change in ideas and direction to turn this around. Starting with MA making a decision about the manager Kinnear.

 

Basically fuck him off and get some one in with a clue.

 

Next step, allow the manager to run first team affairs.

 

Next step, get the club stable and in a position to maintain its prem status.

 

 

 

 

[Dave]

Ashley is running his "business model" exactly as he intended now

 

 

 

get a grip man

 

why do you disagree ?

 

his business model was for us to be in the bottom 3 in early april was it?

 

there's a huge difference between frustratingly incompetent decision making and "a plan" as we saw with FS

 

the man is fucking up royally, to say he's following a plan is mental - i don't even think he's following his original financial plan due to a number of external factors that have occurred since he bought the club, never mind any football plan he might have had

 

that's why and it gives him precisely 0% credit before you start

 

 

I said business model, not football model. He thought that we would always get capacity crowds, or close to, whatever our league position, and probably thought we always had had capacity crowds. In other words he was a clueless tosspot like many other people.

 

What he doesn't understand - like many other people - is that the success on the pitch drives the success of the business [in an industry where very few clubs if any make profits] and not the other way around.

 

I've seen many blind views on these message boards over the years, but the blind and misunderstood hatred of the old regime is by far the worst, which I could understand up to a point by those who didn't know any different, but what amazes me now is the amount of people still clinging to it, and attempting to justify Ashley watching the team go down and down while clinging to his "plan", whatever it is.

 

 

 

you didn't read a single fucking word i wrote did you?

 

i'm so disappointed in myself that i even got involved again, find someone else mate i know you talk a modicum of sense but i'm refusing to be ignored in discussions these days...if you want to acknowledge the precipice the club was on before ashley bought it then we'll talk otherwise lets carry on with the detente, i prefer it that way

 

of course I read what you said..........but I think his "plan" is first and foremost to just make a profit. Throw in lots of football related knowledge he didn't have, and you get out what we have now. Basically, I agree with what cp40 is saying. He has misjudged our support in terms of the extent of it, foolishly thinking we would draw those crowds whatever happened, and decided he would spend less and just stay in the premirership.

 

All he had to do was look at the history books and he would have seen that it was the old regime who attracted the crowds back to the club, sadly Ashley is driving them out again.

 

Everyone's 'plan' is to make a profit. The previous regime did it, and just about everyone else in football is looking to do it. There aren't many philanthropists about. I think Ashley's main crime is a lack of football knowledge. His first thoughts were first and foremost to cut expenditures whilst maintaining premierleague football (in the short term at least). This is the most obvious way to go about getting a profit, and should have been possible (not defending the concept btw) as we were well overplaying for the quality of players at our disposal.

 

Unfortunately for him (and more importantly us) the way he went about this - as we have seen - was absolutely shambolic. It's ended up with a huge gamble on us having enough to beat the drop this season - as he must realise that this would cost him more money than £20m-worth of players would have done in January.

 

If, and sadly it's a huge if these days, we stay up the real question is will he do the same again? A blind man could see we need more investment than we've had this season, otherwise we'll be heading down sooner rather than later. Can he pull his head far enough out of the sand to see this? My worry is that if he doesn't get in some people who understand what's going on ASAP it'll be more of the same. Which, quite frankly, would be a disgrace, and show him up to be even more clueless than he's demonstrated so far.

 

The real shame for me is that in Keegan he had almost the ideal man (within our reaches anyway) who could take this club forward, understood what it meant to be successful in this division and could compensate for Mike's lack of footballing knowledge. Screwed that one up as well, eh Mike.

 

[Pilko]

Yeah, Mowen pretty much summed up everything well there. Good post.

[Guest Brummiemag]

The voting is much closer than I expected, particularly considering the posts in this thread.

 

40% expect us to do alright next year, which surprises me.

 

Dave, it shows how our expectations have been lowered very quickly under Ashley if your saying finishing mid/lower table next season (if we stay up) is now considered to be a relative success!