Hillsborough

[cp40]

Agree mick Pre taylor report, policing and stadium design, crowd control were a disaster waiting to happen. Its tradgic for Liverpool it was at thier game that it happend.

[Dave]

The worst thing for me isn't what happened, it was an accident and they do happen.  Somebody made a decision to open the exit gate and allow thousands into the ground in a short space of time but they did that because people were getting crushed and they tried to prevent that.  For me the cover up is a disgrace because that's been done wilfully and it's been done to try and blame innocent people for what happened.

 

I've just watched a documentary about Hillsborough and it was chilling watching it as I've almost been crushed a few times.  The worst was at St James' when I was queuing up for FA Cup tickets in 1974.  We queued up all night on Barrack Road and were getting crushed up against the gates at the corner of the Leazes/West Stand and I was off my feet and was carried from the gates to the turnstiles because we had to go through turnstiles to get tickets as if we were paying into a match.  We went through the turnstiles and straight out of the exit gates.

 

I also remember going to Sheff Wed and they didn’t open the end which was in the left corner of Leppings Lane and the crush in the middle was awful and at times we couldn’t move unless the whole crowd moved because we couldn’t touch the ground.  Even when we came out after the match we had problems because the exits were kept shut and people were pushing to get out and the police had to get on top of the turnstiles and they were dragging injured fans onto the turnstiles because they had been crushed and had passed out.

 

Coming out of Anfield was also a problem because we came out at the top of the stand and through a small exit which was at a canny height and the railings around the steps were at waist heing and they kept the exits locked so we couldn't get down the stairs and everybody behind was pushing to get out and we couldn't move.  I was amazed that nobody went over the top or that the wooden railings had never snapped.

 

I mentioned a couple of days ago about the Notts Forrest Cup game.  We had no option but to get onto the pitch but we were lucky that we weren’t fenced in or I’m sure somebody would have died during that game because people at the back kept surging forwards.  Whoever thought up the idea of fencing people in at football grounds should be shot with s*** and they are ultimately to blame for people dying at Hillsborough, not the police who opened gates.

 

[Mick]

Agree mick Pre taylor report, policing and stadium design, crowd control were a disaster waiting to happen. Its tradgic for Liverpool it was at thier game that it happend.

 

Another problem was at Rotherham or Watford (I think).  You had to get into the away end down a back lane and we always took thousands to away games so the crush was terrible the closer you got to the turnstiles.

[henke]

So if i turn up in Brugge, have a wee drink (but stay sober), then attempt to illegally gain entry to the game by forcing my way in - i'm blame free?

 

noone on either side can be absolved of blame.

 

Apparently they can. No fan was at fault.

 

Don't get me wrong, i'm not defending the police at all. What they did was despicable i just think it's mental to say they were the only ones to blame.

 

well that's what I thought as well but it turns out the whole thing about there being ticketless fans forcing their way in is actually a myth.

 

If that's true then i'll take back what i've said.

 

Are we now being told that every fan in that crowd had a ticket? Because i just don't believe that to be true. Are they now saying that when the gate was opened not one single fan tried to gain entry without a ticket? Because if that's the case that's bollocks.

 

And that's not having a dig at Liverpool fans. We'd have had plenty of people there without tckets, just look at the numbers heading to Brugge. In fact Liverpool fans did exactly the same in Athens '07.

[Cronky]

I can remember, on the day of the tragedy, seeing two angry Liverpool fans at Hillsborough waving their tickets at a TV camera, and shouting that the police had let ticketless fans in.

 

The Police made some bad judgements and then compounded that by attempting to cover their mistakes. What seems to be lacking in certain sections is a sense of perspective. It doesn't make them murderers.

 

The Police and the Authorities have learned from the tragedy, but I'd say fans have as well, and I don't mean just Liverpool fans. It was noticeable for me that after Heysel and Hillsborough that the atmosphere in grounds became less violent and adolescent.

[Big Geordie]

Anyone posted that South Yorkshire police originally got the date of the event wrong in their statement today?

 

Also, that Kelvin Mackenzie(sp?) put out his 'apology' at 3.06pm, when a moments' silence was occurring. What a cunt.

 

Has that been verified? Christ almighty, if so. I hope today is a final nail in the coffin for the career of Kelvin Mackenzie. No-one should touch that cunt with a bargepole.

[Wullie]

I've never been more stunned watching TV than when I saw Kelvin McKenzie as one of the panelists on the Apprentice: You're Fired when it was a scouse contestant. Was desperately hoping the bloke would smack the fat slug in the face.

 

It disgusts me when I see him on the BBC, I really hope this means the TV networks wash their hands of the fucking ringpiece.

[Guest Brendan_Rice]

I feel happy for the families, they will finally be able to get some justice and maybe a bit of closure.

 

I hope the cunts involved in the cover up get punished by the courts and never hold a position of authority again.

[Big Geordie]

Agree mick Pre taylor report, policing and stadium design, crowd control were a disaster waiting to happen. Its tradgic for Liverpool it was at thier game that it happend.

 

Another problem was at Rotherham or Watford (I think).  You had to get into the away end down a back lane and we always took thousands to away games so the crush was terrible the closer you got to the turnstiles.

 

Grimsby wasn't good either. Remember going down there in 92 (just after KK had took over) and about 7000 were there, packed into the tiny away end. Little kids that had travelled down on our bus had to be hauled to safety and sit with those in the seats. Madness.

[leffe186]

I can remember, on the day of the tragedy, seeing two angry Liverpool fans at Hillsborough waving their tickets at a TV camera, and shouting that the police had let ticketless fans in.

 

The Police made some bad judgements and then compounded that by attempting to cover their mistakes. What seems to be lacking in certain sections is a sense of perspective. It doesn't make them murderers.

 

The Police and the Authorities have learned from the tragedy, but I'd say fans have as well, and I don't mean just Liverpool fans. It was noticeable for me that after Heysel and Hillsborough that the atmosphere in grounds became less violent and adolescent.

 

That sense of perspective arose despite us shouting repeatedly, and to the rooftops (albeit not the redtops, they weren't listening), about the way we were being treated. I think it is almost impossible for a younger fan today to grasp some of the inhuman policies that were visited upon football fans. Just imagine if the disaster had happened at a Stamford Bridge with fans hemmed in by electric fences, as had been proposed by that utter c*** Bates. That particular perspective was adopted knowingly and willingly by those with the power to make a change.

[Hanshithispantz]

Even if fans didn't have a ticket...so what? They wanted to watch a game...not be crushed to death. It's the job of the police to protect and help us as a society...regardless. The police didn't do that and then went on and created untruths, pervert the course of justice and commit their own crimes.

 

It's disgusting that the police force did the exact opposite of what they're supposed to do.

 

 

[Guest Open_C]

Are we now being told that every fan in that crowd had a ticket? Because i just don't believe that to be true. Are they now saying that when the gate was opened not one single fan tried to gain entry without a ticket? Because if that's the case that's bollocks.

 

And that's not having a dig at Liverpool fans. We'd have had plenty of people there without tckets, just look at the numbers heading to Brugge. In fact Liverpool fans did exactly the same in Athens '07.

 

BBC coverage tonight is showing film of the police ineffectually controlling the crowd outside and apparently fans climbing over the stadium wall and turnstiles to get in.

 

Shocked at the apparent scale of cover up but finding it as difficult to accept the new version of events (almost entirely everybody else's fault) as the old one (almost entirely the fans' fault).  Largely in agreement with the sensible middle ground posts, and hugely in agreement with whoever levels the blame at the decision to pen fans in.

 

[nuneaton]

nuneaton hates the pigs

 

If you have ever been to nuneaton you would know why

 

hang on one moment

[Hanshithispantz]

I think placing the blame on anyone (without evidence of them doing something monumentally stupid, ie the coroner) is massively harsh like, I doubt anybody who wasn't at the front of the crush really knew what was going on, and nobody expected it or was prepared for it. Poor policing/fans trying to get in without tickets/both, whatever it was it just doesn't really sit right with me to place the blame of 96 deaths on their shoulders.

 

The cover up is just sickening though, and anyone involved should obviously be sentenced to whatever is deemed necessarily.

[Dave]

I think placing the blame on anyone (without evidence of them doing something monumentally stupid, ie the coroner) is massively harsh like, I doubt anybody who wasn't at the front of the crush really knew what was going on, and nobody expected it or was prepared for it. Poor policing/fans trying to get in without tickets/both, whatever it was it just doesn't really sit right with me to place the blame of 96 deaths on their shoulders.

 

The cover up is just sickening though, and anyone involved should obviously be sentenced to whatever is deemed necessarily.

 

Aye, that's pretty much my view on it.

[David Icke - Son of God]

so are all the fans that turned up without a ticket guilt free?

Apparently so.

It's Scouseaphobic to actually say they were at fault in any way whatsoever.

Which is frankly ridiculous.

The cover up by the coppers however is a monumental disgrace.

We KNEW they had done it of course, just the scale, and number of others involved in the cover up

 

There have now been two reports which make a mockery of the idea of ticketless fans causing the crush, in addition to the large amount of work that has also been done in the 23 years since by a vast array of other individuals, studying CCTV of fans entering the ground and footage from outside the ground proving that there were no more Liverpool fans trying to get in than was expected.

 

It's not "Scouseaphobic" to absolve these fans of blame. It's common sense because they don't exist and never have.

[Big Geordie]

Yup - I'm amazed that some are still doing their best to blame the Liverpool fans, even after today's events. If there are any black and whites trying to do this, then I am ashamed of their actions. I've got no great love for the scousers, but I witnessed on TV what happened that day and it's something that will live with me until the day I die. I have always supported the families' cause to find the truth - their resolve and determination has been amazing. 

[JH]

http://news.images.itv.com/image/file/91009/article_654b360c15b279ac_1347483346_9j-4aaqsk.jpeg

[Big Geordie]

Like Mackenzie - too little, too late from that gobshite of a rag.

[Incognito]

so are all the fans that turned up without a ticket guilt free?

Apparently so.

It's Scouseaphobic to actually say they were at fault in any way whatsoever.

Which is frankly ridiculous.

The cover up by the coppers however is a monumental disgrace.

We KNEW they had done it of course, just the scale, and number of others involved in the cover up

 

There have now been two reports which make a mockery of the idea of ticketless fans causing the crush, in addition to the large amount of work that has also been done in the 23 years since by a vast array of other individuals, studying CCTV of fans entering the ground and footage from outside the ground proving that there were no more Liverpool fans trying to get in than was expected.

 

It's not "Scouseaphobic" to absolve these fans of blame. It's common sense because they don't exist and never have.

 

I agree though it was an easy enough position to take, at the time, we'd all seen ticketless Liverpool supporters scale 100 feet of wall to gain access through a high arch to Wembley for the 86 Mersey Cup Final, and of course we had the tabloids peddling this too. I did vehemently change my viewpoint as I grew older and understood the media for what it is mind.

[TaylorJ_01]

Wish this would just... stop.

[Jack Flash]

Like Mackenzie - too little, too late from that gobshite of a rag.

 

Aye. Some of the apologies they're getting are nowhere near as good when it's a completely different set of people saying sorry. The South Yorkshire Police one is almost pointless at this stage.

[Incognito]

Like Mackenzie - too little, too late from that gobshite of a rag.

 

Aye. Some of the apologies they're getting are nowhere near as good when it's a completely different set of people saying sorry. The South Yorkshire Police one is almost pointless at this stage.

 

 

Of course the reason why Maggie wanted to protect the South Yorks Police, they'd been her henchmen against the Miners 5 years before.

[Sifu]

http://news.images.itv.com/image/file/91009/article_654b360c15b279ac_1347483346_9j-4aaqsk.jpeg

 

That apology is 23 years too late like.

[Big Geordie]

Like Mackenzie - too little, too late from that gobshite of a rag.

 

Aye. Some of the apologies they're getting are nowhere near as good when it's a completely different set of people saying sorry. The South Yorkshire Police one is almost pointless at this stage.

 

 

Of course the reason why Maggie wanted to protect the South Yorks Police, they'd been her henchmen against the Miners 5 years before.

 

Along with The Met - spot on. They were her own personal army.