Hillsborough

[TheHoob]

Like others have said i'm surprised at the scale of the cover up, it would be interesting to know just how high up it went, although I doubt we'll ever really know. Haven't seen any of the coverage yet or read any of the report but I will be when I get in.

[brummie]

so are all the fans that turned up without a ticket guilt free?

 

There's no evidence of there being lots of fans there without tickets, so it's not a question of them being guilt free - it is a total red herring.

[OzzieMandias]

The panel found no evidence among the vast number of disclosed documents and many hours of video material to verify the serious allegations of exceptional levels of drunkenness, ticketlessness or violence among Liverpool fans. There was no evidence that fans had conspired to arrive late at the stadium and force entry and no evidence that they stole from the dead and dying.

[nuneaton]

nice of the pigs to care more about themselves than the deceased. when will they realise there are reasons nobody likes them.

[MW]

how was it overcrowded if the correct amount of people were there?

[SEMTEX]

nuneaton hates the pigs

[Disco]

how was it overcrowded if the correct amount of people were there?

 

fans all piled into the same central pen behind the goal due to lack of crowd management telling them to use all pens, in particular those by the corners which weren't anywhere near as full.

[nuneaton]

i dont hate the pigs. i just dont like anything about them. at all.

 

if it was a rugby match they would have probably cared about the fans.

and they say were small minded

[Heake]

I cant help noticing a less beligerant tone in the last few pages of this thread.

 

I can only voice my own opinion, which hasnt changed in light of todays events, that whilst it seems there is no doubt that the Liverpool fans were complicit by their sheer numbers & "enthusiasm" in attempting to get into the ground (their sobriety is irrelevant in my opinion), this was no different to how many behaved up & down the country in that era.

 

I have no time for the club & find the fans delutional opinion of their stature in todays game laughable but I shuffle that to one side when absorbing the true accounts of that day. behaving like a 1980`s football fan should not have been a sentence to death.

 

Also, it cant be becouse I`m a couple of decades older (& wiser?) that it seems the difference in Police attitudes towards the Public has changed beyond recognition: The polar opposite from that of Thatchers Britain. Awaydays were a completely different propostion from the sanitised corprate fayre on offer today. Coppers with a "miners strike" metality had scant or no regard for the welfare of fans. Akin to cowboys coralling cattle in the wild west. This was a scandal waiting to happen & stands as a model in how not to police / steward a football match. Some consolation, but at least this stood as a catalyst to the changes we now see in ground safety & attitudes towards fans in general. Though It is still a "work in progress" in my opinion.

 

Oh, & what a c0ck Kelvin Mckenzie is.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Dave]

i dont hate the pigs. i just dont like anything about them. at all.

 

if it was a rugby match they would have probably cared about the fans.

and they say were small minded

 

Give it a rest with this shit please.

[nuneaton]

[David Icke - Son of God]

how was it overcrowded if the correct amount of people were there?

 

Not the brightest bulb in the box are you? I suggest you read up on a subject before spouting shite and ultimately making a tit of yourself.

 

For the record, the crush occurred in the central pen which a lot of fans were carried into by the crowd when the gates were opened.

[SEMTEX]

He didn't exactly spout anything, he just asked the question. He's lazy as hell, so can't be bothered to read up on the events, he's said nothing malicious.

[James]

it would seem that the perception of football fans in particular liverpool fans probably led to the mistaken belief that this was another hooliganism incident.

 

the way the stadium was set up, the way the police reverted to hooliganism prevention protocols, and the way the tragedy was investigated by police and media shows that while completely in the wrong, people did at the time believe it was the fans fault.

[Jack Flash]

how was it overcrowded if the correct amount of people were there?

 

Not the brightest bulb in the box are you? I suggest you read up on a subject before spouting s**** and ultimately making a tit of yourself.

 

This doesn't sound like MW at all.

[Guest Slippery Sam]

nice of the pigs to care more about themselves than the deceased. when will they realise there are reasons nobody likes them.

 

Folk who remember football in the 70's and 80's will tell you there was no love lost between fans and the police during those times.  The police were to blame for the deaths at Hillsborough but it could be argued that the pc  sticking the v's to supporters could be just another thick plod who didn't realise the seriousness of the situation.

 

The report found 'no evidence of excessive drunkenness and ticketlessness....'.  The key word there is 'excessive'.  I assume that means that the normal levels of drunkenness and ticketlessness was evident ?  Any Newcastle supporter who is honest would admit that if it had been us on that day then the drink would have been flowing big time that day.

 

As I said before, the police were to blame for these tragic deaths.  I do not wish to appear to be attempting to trying to be stupid/awkward, but, playing Devil's advocate, was this report purely designed to exonerate (quite rightly) the fans and was a tad biased?  Yes, it was 'independent', but to try and say by way of clever English drunkenness was not an issue was perhaps misleading?

 

As has been said, what happened could have occurred to any one of us back then. I just wish it hadn't happened at all.

 

If anyone finds my comments disrespectful or upsetting then I apologise as that is far from being my intention.

 

 

[MW]

how was it overcrowded if the correct amount of people were there?

 

Not the brightest bulb in the box are you? I suggest you read up on a subject before spouting shite and ultimately making a tit of yourself.

 

For the record, the crush occurred in the central pen which a lot of fans were carried into by the crowd when the gates were opened.

 

disco has already answered my question without being a total wanker, thanks anyway

 

[frankpingel]

how was it overcrowded if the correct amount of people were there?

There was a documentary which will offer some clarification to you which was aired on ITV1 earlier this week and should still be available to view.

Having visited Hillsbrough several times prior to 89' I can totally understand how and why the fans went down the central tunnel that day.

[BrettNUFC]

how was it overcrowded if the correct amount of people were there?

 

Not the brightest bulb in the box are you? I suggest you read up on a subject before spouting s**** and ultimately making a tit of yourself.

 

For the record, the crush occurred in the central pen which a lot of fans were carried into by the crowd when the gates were opened.

 

disco has already answered my question without being a total w*****, thanks anyway

 

 

[nuneaton]

nice of the pigs to care more about themselves than the deceased. when will they realise there are reasons nobody likes them.

 

Folk who remember football in the 70's and 80's will tell you there was no love lost between fans and the police during those times.  The police were to blame for the deaths at Hillsborough but it could be argued that the pc  sticking the v's to supporters could be just another thick plod who didn't realise the seriousness of the situation.

 

The report found 'no evidence of excessive drunkenness and ticketlessness....'.  The key word there is 'excessive'.  I assume that means that the normal levels of drunkenness and ticketlessness was evident ?  Any Newcastle supporter who is honest would admit that if it had been us on that day then the drink would have been flowing big time that day.

 

As I said before, the police were to blame for these tragic deaths.  I do not wish to appear to be attempting to trying to be stupid/awkward, but, playing Devil's advocate, was this report purely designed to exonerate (quite rightly) the fans and was a tad biased?  Yes, it was 'independent', but to try and say by way of clever English drunkenness was not an issue was perhaps misleading?

 

As has been said, what happened could have occurred to any one of us back then. I just wish it hadn't happened at all.

 

If anyone finds my comments disrespectful or upsetting then I apologise as that is far from being my intention.

 

if you walk down the road and see someone being crushed by an object and instead of helping you make a v sign at them in the process of them being crushed, do you think you may be in any particular hot water for your actions?

[Guest Slippery Sam]

nice of the pigs to care more about themselves than the deceased. when will they realise there are reasons nobody likes them.

 

Folk who remember football in the 70's and 80's will tell you there was no love lost between fans and the police during those times.  The police were to blame for the deaths at Hillsborough but it could be argued that the pc  sticking the v's to supporters could be just another thick plod who didn't realise the seriousness of the situation.

 

The report found 'no evidence of excessive drunkenness and ticketlessness....'.  The key word there is 'excessive'.  I assume that means that the normal levels of drunkenness and ticketlessness was evident ?  Any Newcastle supporter who is honest would admit that if it had been us on that day then the drink would have been flowing big time that day.

 

As I said before, the police were to blame for these tragic deaths.  I do not wish to appear to be attempting to trying to be stupid/awkward, but, playing Devil's advocate, was this report purely designed to exonerate (quite rightly) the fans and was a tad biased?  Yes, it was 'independent', but to try and say by way of clever English drunkenness was not an issue was perhaps misleading?

 

As has been said, what happened could have occurred to any one of us back then. I just wish it hadn't happened at all.

 

If anyone finds my comments disrespectful or upsetting then I apologise as that is far from being my intention.

 

if you walk down the road and see someone being crushed by an object and instead of helping you make a v sign at them in the process of them being crushed, do you think you may be in any particular hot water for your actions?

 

I completely accept your argument.  But, as has been documented, crushing at football grounds (and Hillsborough also) had happened many times without fans being pulled out by the police. As I said, it could be argued that this particular plod was just another thicko who didn't know what was actually happening.

[nuneaton]

nice of the pigs to care more about themselves than the deceased. when will they realise there are reasons nobody likes them.

 

Folk who remember football in the 70's and 80's will tell you there was no love lost between fans and the police during those times.  The police were to blame for the deaths at Hillsborough but it could be argued that the pc  sticking the v's to supporters could be just another thick plod who didn't realise the seriousness of the situation.

 

The report found 'no evidence of excessive drunkenness and ticketlessness....'.  The key word there is 'excessive'.  I assume that means that the normal levels of drunkenness and ticketlessness was evident ?  Any Newcastle supporter who is honest would admit that if it had been us on that day then the drink would have been flowing big time that day.

 

As I said before, the police were to blame for these tragic deaths.  I do not wish to appear to be attempting to trying to be stupid/awkward, but, playing Devil's advocate, was this report purely designed to exonerate (quite rightly) the fans and was a tad biased?  Yes, it was 'independent', but to try and say by way of clever English drunkenness was not an issue was perhaps misleading?

 

As has been said, what happened could have occurred to any one of us back then. I just wish it hadn't happened at all.

 

If anyone finds my comments disrespectful or upsetting then I apologise as that is far from being my intention.

 

if you walk down the road and see someone being crushed by an object and instead of helping you make a v sign at them in the process of them being crushed, do you think you may be in any particular hot water for your actions?

 

I completely accept your argument.  But, as has been documented, crushing at football grounds (and Hillsborough also) had happened many times without fans being pulled out by the police. As I said, it could be argued that this particular plod was just another thicko who didn't know what was actually happening.

 

yes. perhaps he was the deaf, dumb and blind kid off pinball wizard.

[Tooj]

Who was on the panel of the findings btw? Was it fully independent?

[Guest Phil K]

so are all the fans that turned up without a ticket guilt free?

Apparently so.

It's Scouseaphobic to actually say they were at fault in any way whatsoever.

Which is frankly ridiculous.

The cover up by the coppers however is a monumental disgrace.

We KNEW they had done it of course, just the scale, and number of others involved in the cover up

[Pilko]

It's really fucking daft how people allow their hatred of Liverpool Football Club and Liverpool supporters to completely cloud the events at Hillsborough, like. I can't stand them myself but that doesn't mean it was therefore entirely their fault and that's that; there's clearly an overwhelmingly large proportion of blame that should land on the authorities, police and government's shoulders.