Time to change the game?

[Frazzle]

How odd to look at the last 6 seasons.  Why not the last 5 then it would have actually made their point true

 

Because most journos are idiots?  :colo:

[Teasy]

Yeah they obviously remember us qualifying 7 seasons ago but not 6 years ago

[80]

Strictly speaking... we didn't qualify, did we? Bowyer, Belgrade and Shearer & co. missing penalties. Still, stupid pedantry.

 

Bugger...

[Guest Heneage]

Strictly speaking... we didn't qualify, did we? Bowyer, Belgrade and Shearer & co. missing penalties. Still, stupid pedantry.

 

Bugger...

Nor Did Everton If I remember they went out to some Bulgarian's didn't they?

[80]

Strictly speaking... we didn't qualify, did we? Bowyer, Belgrade and Shearer & co. missing penalties. Still, stupid pedantry.

 

Bugger...

Nor Did Everton If I remember they went out to some Bulgarian's didn't they?

 

Good point. Hadn't bothered to think about them - got too screwed up with our downfall...

 

Further to that, they didn't break the hold of the big four insofar as that was the season we had five teams in, following Liverpool's CL victory.

[MW]

Twas actually Villareal they went out to iirc

[Guest sittingontheball]

Give 4th CL place to FA Cup winner. Smash the top four and reinvigorate the Cup in one move.

 

Villa notably ran out of steam this year, but it was looking dodgy for Arsenal not so long ago. It doesn't sound like Villa have the cash for the next move up though. Neither do Everton. They need strikers and thems costs the most.

[Segun Oluwaniyi]

Remember feeling bad for Everton that season. All that hard work, and in the qualifying they draw a Villareal team featuring Riquelme and Forlan at their bests. Remember they went out on a questionable decision as well.

[Neil]

Re: us, never ever speak to me about that game. I respect Collina generally but that was a truly shocking decision at El Madrigal.

 

Re: the 6 seasons thing, I personally think it's all a conspiracy against Newcastle.

 

Re: the article, no. I'll elaborate later if I can be arsed 

 

 

[cp40]

Re: us, never ever speak to me about that game. I respect Collina generally but that was a truly shocking decision at El Madrigal.

 

Re: the 6 seasons thing, I personally think it's all a conspiracy against Newcastle.

 

Re: the article, no. I'll elaborate later if I can be arsed 

 

 

 

Improve the game,... Demolish goodison park,

[TêteDeMaure]

Re: us, never ever speak to me about that game. I respect Collina generally but that was a truly shocking decision at El Madrigal.

 

Re: the 6 seasons thing, I personally think it's all a conspiracy against Newcastle.

 

Re: the article, no. I'll elaborate later if I can be arsed 

 

 

 

I don't know why Collina gets as much credit, maybe he's got a thing for spanish sides, i remember in the UEFA Cup final, Marseille V Valencia that he made 2 ridiculously bad decisions which cost Marseille the cup ultimately.

[Neil]

Re: us, never ever speak to me about that game. I respect Collina generally but that was a truly shocking decision at El Madrigal.

 

Re: the 6 seasons thing, I personally think it's all a conspiracy against Newcastle.

 

Re: the article, no. I'll elaborate later if I can be arsed 

 

 

 

Improve the game,... Demolish goodison park,

 

I,see,what,you,did,there,....,..,

 

 

 

[The Prophet]

It's a difficult question. For me a salary cap should be imposed on the game anyway, the amount footballers get paid to in comparison to other more significant professions is ridiculous. However it's difficult to gauge if this would have any effect on players decision to join the bigger more powerful clubs. Not only will the big clubs already have a base of quality players but they will still have the attraction, they are still the richest and they will still be more likely than not competing in the European competitions on a regular basis. If you were a player looking to make a name for yourself would you join Manchester United or Arsenal or would you look twice at a club like Stoke City?

 

It's difficult because of course a salary cap puts everyone on a level playing field in terms of wages which for me would help the cause of the chasing pack even if only marginally. Overall though I do think there would be more benefit than harm, although it would be daft to think the limitation would be the absolute solution.

 

Again imposing a minimum amount of English players has similar pitfalls. The better teams generally have the better academies and attract the better young prospects. In this area what really needs to be improved is the protection of smaller clubs from having their youngsters poached. This became evident in the whole John Bostock row. U-18 contracts need to have better enforceability for protection purposes.

 

What I do like the idea of is the system in place in the Dutch league. The top two qualify for Europe while third, forth, fifth and sixth enter a play off. The winner qualifies for the Champions League while the rest settle for UEFA cup spots. Something like that over here maybe involving forth, fifth, sixth and seventh would be excellent. Not only would it give those mid-table teams some extra incentive but any qualification could lead to the riches of the Champions League.

 

A gap has opened up between the wealthy and the poor and no matter what controlling system is imposed it is still going to take time for any potential chasers to catch up. The big teams will still have the money, the quality and the European football. The so called big four have got two far away while the FA have done nothing but back them due to the income they receive from around the globe. This has let them get so much of a head start that anything they attempt to do now to bridge the gap may not take effect for many, many years.

[Astroblack]

It's a difficult question. For me a salary cap should be imposed on the game anyway, the amount footballers get paid to in comparison to other more significant professions is ridiculous. However it's difficult to gauge if this would have any effect on players decision to join the bigger more powerful clubs. Not only will the big clubs already have a base of quality players but they will still have the attraction, they are still the richest and they will still be more likely than not competing in the European competitions on a regular basis. If you were a player looking to make a name for yourself would you join Manchester United or Arsenal or would you look twice at a club like Stoke City?

 

It's difficult because of course a salary cap puts everyone on a level playing field in terms of wages which for me would help the cause of the chasing pack even if only marginally. Overall though I do think there would be more benefit than harm, although it would be daft to think the limitation would be the absolute solution.

 

Again imposing a minimum amount of English players has similar pitfalls. The better teams generally have the better academies and attract the better young prospects. In this area what really needs to be improved is the protection of smaller clubs from having their youngsters poached. This became evident in the whole John Bostock row. U-18 contracts need to have better enforceability for protection purposes.

 

What I do like the idea of is the system in place in the Dutch league. The top two qualify for Europe while third, forth, fifth and sixth enter a play off. The winner qualifies for the Champions League while the rest settle for UEFA cup spots. Something like that over here maybe involving forth, fifth, sixth and seventh would be excellent. Not only would it give those mid-table teams some extra incentive but any qualification could lead to the riches of the Champions League.

 

A gap has opened up between the wealthy and the poor and no matter what controlling system is imposed it is still going to take time for any potential chasers to catch up. The big teams will still have the money, the quality and the European football. The so called big four have got two far away while the FA have done nothing but back them due to the income they receive from around the globe. This has let them get so much of a head start that anything they attempt to do now to bridge the gap may not take effect for many, many years.

 

I never understood this system, but I agree it could work. It'd give teams even more to aim at.

[Taylor Swift]

Dump the League Cup. No one gives a shit about it. Every league in Europe has one domestic cup. Why does England have two?

[JH]

Dump the League Cup. No one gives a s*** about it. Every league in Europe has one domestic cup. Why does England have two?

 

To give us something else to throw away?

 

Christ, teams don't even celebrate it when they win anymore. It's like a "Weeeeey....ok this is embarassing now".

[madras]

It's a difficult question. For me a salary cap should be imposed on the game anyway, the amount footballers get paid to in comparison to other more significant professions is ridiculous. However it's difficult to gauge if this would have any effect on players decision to join the bigger more powerful clubs. Not only will the big clubs already have a base of quality players but they will still have the attraction, they are still the richest and they will still be more likely than not competing in the European competitions on a regular basis. If you were a player looking to make a name for yourself would you join Manchester United or Arsenal or would you look twice at a club like Stoke City?

 

It's difficult because of course a salary cap puts everyone on a level playing field in terms of wages which for me would help the cause of the chasing pack even if only marginally. Overall though I do think there would be more benefit than harm, although it would be daft to think the limitation would be the absolute solution.

 

Again imposing a minimum amount of English players has similar pitfalls. The better teams generally have the better academies and attract the better young prospects. In this area what really needs to be improved is the protection of smaller clubs from having their youngsters poached. This became evident in the whole John Bostock row. U-18 contracts need to have better enforceability for protection purposes.

 

What I do like the idea of is the system in place in the Dutch league. The top two qualify for Europe while third, forth, fifth and sixth enter a play off. The winner qualifies for the Champions League while the rest settle for UEFA cup spots. Something like that over here maybe involving forth, fifth, sixth and seventh would be excellent. Not only would it give those mid-table teams some extra incentive but any qualification could lead to the riches of the Champions League.

 

A gap has opened up between the wealthy and the poor and no matter what controlling system is imposed it is still going to take time for any potential chasers to catch up. The big teams will still have the money, the quality and the European football. The so called big four have got two far away while the FA have done nothing but back them due to the income they receive from around the globe. This has let them get so much of a head start that anything they attempt to do now to bridge the gap may not take effect for many, many years.

 

I never understood this system, but I agree it could work. It'd give teams even more to aim at.

but isn't it daft that a team finishing 3 places and perhaps many points gets into europe because of a play off..........why not say that the top 6 in the prem play off at the end of the season to see who wins the title,because it defeats the purpose of a league system.

[tmonkey]

It's a difficult question. For me a salary cap should be imposed on the game anyway, the amount footballers get paid to in comparison to other more significant professions is ridiculous.

 

Always disagreed with this viewpoint, mainly because it seems to single out footballers as being undeserving of a high wage when the same applies to other roles within the entertainment industry. If footballers get paid ludicrous amonts to kick a ball on some grass, then actors get paid ridiculous amounts for reading out lines (or in many cases just being good looking), and musicians for singing in a high pitched voice or for plucking a few strings or doing a little dance (in many cases just ripping off earlier work).

 

If footballer's wages should be capped, then why shouldn't actors'and musicians' salaries or earnings be capped?

[madras]

 

It's a difficult question. For me a salary cap should be imposed on the game anyway, the amount footballers get paid to in comparison to other more significant professions is ridiculous.

 

Always disagreed with this viewpoint, mainly because it seems to single out footballers as being undeserving of a high wage when the same applies to other roles within the entertainment industry. If footballers get paid ludicrous amonts to kick a ball on some grass, then actors get paid ridiculous amounts for reading out lines (or in many cases just being good looking), and musicians for singing in a high pitched voice or for plucking a few strings or doing a little dance (in many cases just ripping off earlier work).

 

If footballer's wages should be capped, then why shouldn't actors'and musicians' salaries or earnings be capped?

it doesn't "single out" footballers as there a few other sports with salary caps.

[Taylor Swift]

But those sports exist in a relatively 'closed' system. In the NFL, you have around 30 teams. In the NBA, 30 teams. In baseball, even if the salary cap is a joke, they've still only got around 30 teams. It's easier to implement a cap system when every team is under the jurisdiction of one institution. With football, you've not only got all the different national football associations, but then you have different continental associations - even more bereaucracy to sort through. Then you've got to actually be able to get all the players together, form a proper union and sign a collective bargaining agreement.

 

It'll be impossible to get all the players in Europe, especially because the income disparity between the leagues is already huge, to agree on a suitable cap as well as other conditions. The PFA is already a major joke.

 

But anyway, even if you can get a salary cap, the highest-paid earners will still earn the same amount. Think of a probability distribution. Because they're still in the highest percentile in terms of their skill/quality, they'll still earn the highest wages in terms of percentile. The players who will lose out are the players around the mean i.e. about 85% of footballers. So those players earning obscene amounts of money will still earn relatively the same amount. The wage around the mean (in terms of quality) will be depressed and that's how clubs will save money - dumping the average players.

 

The only thing a salary cap is useful for is to help clubs be financially responsible. But I think if a club wants to gamble its future and spend 70% of its revenue on wages, then so be it. It's unlikely for them to reap the rewards but if the gamble pays off, then fair play to them.

[madras]

But those sports exist in a relatively 'closed' system. In the NFL, you have around 30 teams. In the NBA, 30 teams. In baseball, even if the salary cap is a joke, they've still only got around 30 teams. It's easier to implement a cap system when every team is under the jurisdiction of one institution. With football, you've not only got all the different national football associations, but then you have different continental associations - even more bereaucracy to sort through. Then you've got to actually be able to get all the players together, form a proper union and sign a collective bargaining agreement.

 

It'll be impossible to get all the players in Europe, especially because the income disparity between the leagues is already huge, to agree on a suitable cap as well as other conditions. The PFA is already a major joke.

 

But anyway, even if you can get a salary cap, the highest-paid earners will still earn the same amount. Think of a probability distribution. Because they're still in the highest percentile in terms of their skill/quality, they'll still earn the highest wages in terms of percentile. The players who will lose out are the players around the mean i.e. about 85% of footballers. So those players earning obscene amounts of money will still earn relatively the same amount. The wage around the mean (in terms of quality) will be depressed and that's how clubs will save money - dumping the average players.

 

The only thing a salary cap is useful for is to help clubs be financially responsible. But I think if a club wants to gamble its future and spend 70% of its revenue on wages, then so be it. It's unlikely for them to reap the rewards but if the gamble pays off, then fair play to them.

not really as theres as many nfl clubs as there are football clubs who'd be affected by a salary cap.

[Taylor Swift]

Obviously depends on what the cap is, though. If it's relatively low, then the whole of Europe will be competitive but that means many teams in the Premiership, La Liga, Bundesliga and Serie A will have to sell a lot of players to come below the cap. If it's not low enough then what's the point? Caps were implemented to help create parity. I'm not sure any of the big leagues in Europe will willingly sign up to a cap unless they were forced to by UEFA (not allowing entry to CL? what happens then?).

[Shak]

But anyway, even if you can get a salary cap, the highest-paid earners will still earn the same amount. Think of a probability distribution. Because they're still in the highest percentile in terms of their skill/quality, they'll still earn the highest wages in terms of percentile. The players who will lose out are the players around the mean i.e. about 85% of footballers. So those players earning obscene amounts of money will still earn relatively the same amount. The wage around the mean (in terms of quality) will be depressed and that's how clubs will save money - dumping the average players.

 

This would be one of the benefits of a salary cap for me.

 

The players earning the truly obscene amounts of money are the players who make the game worth watching. Your Ronaldo's, Kaka's and Messi's earning over 100k doesn't really bother me tbh. It's the slightly above average players that take home thirty or forty grand a week that get on my tits.

 

All in all though I agree that a salary cap is completely unworkable in football. An unusually good post, by your standards at least.

[midds]

The draft system and salary cap are not even options imo. The whole system of recruiting young talent into a sport is inherently different and can never be used by football. Too many teams in too may leagues in too many countries for it to even be considered.

 

Not sure but I think the PFA would take the idea of a salary cap all the way through the European courts if it was ever muted as an option.

 

Not much wrong with the game tbh. We've been through this before and it's up to others to improve. Some teams have more room for improvement than others....

[TRon]

But anyway, even if you can get a salary cap, the highest-paid earners will still earn the same amount. Think of a probability distribution. Because they're still in the highest percentile in terms of their skill/quality, they'll still earn the highest wages in terms of percentile. The players who will lose out are the players around the mean i.e. about 85% of footballers. So those players earning obscene amounts of money will still earn relatively the same amount. The wage around the mean (in terms of quality) will be depressed and that's how clubs will save money - dumping the average players.

 

This would be one of the benefits of a salary cap for me.

 

The players earning the truly obscene amounts of money are the players who make the game worth watching. Your Ronaldo's, Kaka's and Messi's earning over 100k doesn't really bother me tbh. It's the slightly above average players that take home thirty or forty grand a week that get on my tits.

 

All in all though I agree that a salary cap is completely unworkable in football. An unusually good post, by your standards at least.

 

I think that's the crux of the problem, clubs that spend beyond their means in an attempt to keep up. Hull's signing Bullard was a prime example, us signing Owen, Luque, Boumsong etc.

 

Is it really the fault of the successful clubs if clubs like ours keep getting it wrong?