The England Thread

[Tiresias]

too readily available high wages for bench sitting players is a huge problem imo too, players get to a position that they may be decent enough for the national team, go to an interested 'big' club thinking (at least I hope thinking) they can break huge and also get the huge cash and instead end up bit part players. Sinclair is the most extreme form of this.

 

England will achieve nothing until it sorts out it's academy system (and making it easier for rich clubs to poach young talent was exactly the opposite of what was needed, thanks FA). Ideally with strong enough academies any kind of quota amoung the premier league would be academic as talented english players would be as good, but as foreign players are technically better and cheaper this is unlikely to happen anytime soon, albeit the premier league is losing some of it's pull it seems so maybe within a few years it will need to look at it's own more.

 

Until at all levels our youth systems stops believing great players emerge magically no matter what coaching they receive, and until we appoint a good long term manager who is not constrained by political team selections and instead has imagination to look at all who are available, England will have no significant international success.

[hakka]

Absolutely naff all stopping young English players go to France, Spain, etc. playing for lower Ligue 1, La Liga sides or whatever, but do you think they'd give up their 5-figure weekly wages for a fraction of that, despite first-team football?

 

Works both ways.

 

Absolutely nothing to do with that.

 

It's the empire mentality that still pertains in Britain today. Everyone in Europe can speak multiple languages and can speak English better than most people in this country (UK) atm. We refuse to learn other languages and when we go abroad we expect them to speak English. This is also shown in our football, where we refuse to use new training methods and improve, believing our way is superior despite the results. They are too comfortable in England. It's no surprise that Hargreaves was technically superior to all our mf playing atm and he didn't learn his football in this country. Spain has reached this level because of importing ideas from multiple nations. England continually refuse to look outside. It's more than football, it's a mentality.

 

[The College Dropout]

The answer is very simple imo. There's many players in the Championship that earn more money than a lot of players in top leagues around the world. There's average Premiership players earning more money than a lot of the 2nd and 3rd ranked teams in the CL. Simply too much money for mediocrity in English football. Then there's the like of Chelsea/City keeping talented British players on the bench to take advantage of HG rule.

 

If English players made up 70% of the PL, i'm not saying England would be world beaters but they would be much better.

[The College Dropout]

too readily available high wages for bench sitting players is a huge problem imo too, players get to a position that they may be decent enough for the national team, go to an interested 'big' club thinking (at least I hope thinking) they can break huge and also get the huge cash and instead end up bit part players. Sinclair is the most extreme form of this.

 

England will achieve nothing until it sorts out it's academy system (and making it easier for rich clubs to poach young talent was exactly the opposite of what was needed, thanks FA). Ideally with strong enough academies any kind of quota amoung the premier league would be academic as talented english players would be as good, but as foreign players are technically better and cheaper this is unlikely to happen anytime soon, albeit the premier league is losing some of it's pull it seems so maybe within a few years it will need to look at it's own more.

 

Until at all levels our youth systems stops believing great players emerge magically no matter what coaching they receive, and until we appoint a good long term manager who is not constrained by political team selections and instead has imagination to look at all who are available, England will have no significant international success.

 

Don't think the Prem is losing any appeal. There's stiffer competition from such other rich clubs but the average PL club (Newcastle) can pay higher wages than 75% of teams in France, Spain, Holland, Portugal etc.

[Guest]

The answer is very simple imo. There's many players in the Championship that earn more money than a lot of players in top leagues around the world. There's average Premiership players earning more money than a lot of the 2nd and 3rd ranked teams in the CL. Simply too much money for mediocrity in English football. Then there's the like of Chelsea/City keeping talented British players on the bench to take advantage of HG rule.

 

If English players made up 70% of the PL, i'm not saying England would be world beaters but they would be much better.

 

How many English players were in the league between 1991 & 1995, where we failed to get out of a group and didn't even make a World Cup?

[Tiresias]

too readily available high wages for bench sitting players is a huge problem imo too, players get to a position that they may be decent enough for the national team, go to an interested 'big' club thinking (at least I hope thinking) they can break huge and also get the huge cash and instead end up bit part players. Sinclair is the most extreme form of this.

 

England will achieve nothing until it sorts out it's academy system (and making it easier for rich clubs to poach young talent was exactly the opposite of what was needed, thanks FA). Ideally with strong enough academies any kind of quota amoung the premier league would be academic as talented english players would be as good, but as foreign players are technically better and cheaper this is unlikely to happen anytime soon, albeit the premier league is losing some of it's pull it seems so maybe within a few years it will need to look at it's own more.

 

Until at all levels our youth systems stops believing great players emerge magically no matter what coaching they receive, and until we appoint a good long term manager who is not constrained by political team selections and instead has imagination to look at all who are available, England will have no significant international success.

 

Don't think the Prem is losing any appeal. There's stiffer competition from such other rich clubs but the average PL club (Newcastle) can pay higher wages than 75% of teams in France, Spain, Holland, Portugal etc.

 

fair point i guess, but i think the broad trend of investment in leagues outside the premier league will see this change over the coming decade more.

[Tiresias]

it all comes down to not good enough players, not good enough environment to generate good players, not good enough management and not good enough environment for management to have any effect

[maybe_next_year]

Our system is pretty much a shambles from top to bottom, from the lack of coaches at grass roots level and its over fixation on results, to talented youngsters being able to be picked up by the top clubs for a pittance only to never see the playing time they need to delevop, assuming any player manages to avoid this, they might go on to have a decent season, show a lot of potential and again, be picked up by one of the top clubs only to spend their time on the bench.

 

Then you have the problem of the best talented players being picked for the England u21s, who have recently relplaced a dinosaur with another one, there has never seemed any consistancy with tactics and ideas with the England squad, it almost feels like an entirely different team, when its main goal should be to prepare players to make the step up.

 

The worst part though is that, despite it already being an utter farce, the FA, being the FA, will undoubtedly find a way to make things even worse, I mean Greg Dyke is Chairman, a bloke who supports Brenford AND Manchester United ffs! and whos only links to the game seem to be having been on the board of both, hardly a fitting CV for the person seemingly in charge of fixing our deep and numerous problems in getting young english players to an adequate level.

[The College Dropout]

The answer is very simple imo. There's many players in the Championship that earn more money than a lot of players in top leagues around the world. There's average Premiership players earning more money than a lot of the 2nd and 3rd ranked teams in the CL. Simply too much money for mediocrity in English football. Then there's the like of Chelsea/City keeping talented British players on the bench to take advantage of HG rule.

 

If English players made up 70% of the PL, i'm not saying England would be world beaters but they would be much better.

 

How many English players were in the league between 1991 & 1995, where we failed to get out of a group and didn't even make a World Cup?

 

I'm talking about if that would happen today. We had a good team just before that period (90) and a good team right after that (96-06). After that there was a 10 year period where we produced some phenomenal players.

 

We are going to have an extended run of crapness. Believe me.

 

There's fundamental flaws in the British game. We know that. However, the state of the Premiership now means we have truly bottomed out.

[Guest Roger Kint]

The answer is very simple imo. There's many players in the Championship that earn more money than a lot of players in top leagues around the world. There's average Premiership players earning more money than a lot of the 2nd and 3rd ranked teams in the CL. Simply too much money for mediocrity in English football. Then there's the like of Chelsea/City keeping talented British players on the bench to take advantage of HG rule.

 

If English players made up 70% of the PL, i'm not saying England would be world beaters but they would be much better.

 

How many English players were in the league between 1991 & 1995, where we failed to get out of a group and didn't even make a World Cup?

 

We had almost a decade of failure internationally in the 70's, its clearly not just about numbers(although some sort of incentive to play more English players would be nice)

[The College Dropout]

Like I said, there's fundamental errors but the problem has evolved and one of the bigger issues alongside our footballing culture is that our top division doesn't invest in young British players.

 

Spain's international problem wasn't exactly the same in 1970 as it was in 2000.

 

 

I personally think we have a long way to go before we will consistently finish in the QF's again, let alone any better. I have a sneaky feeling we won't make the WC or that we'll have a very tight play-off.

[Guest neesy111]

Football Association chairman Greg Dyke admits he does not expect England to win the World Cup in Brazil next year.

 

[Shays Given Tim Flowers]

Not a single English player will be in our probable starting XI for the next game, injuries permitting. Not sure how much I care about that.

 

We have an English Manager and that's going well.

 

Although the Premier League probably isn't directly responsible the money involved in Top-Flight football and subsequently down the pyramid of the football league creates an emphasis on Winning rather than development. Arguably this has led to teams placing too much emphasis on physicality rather than talent.

[DubblyDubblyDubbly]

SH*T coaching..

Three years ago an official report concluded that coaching is the "golden thread" leading to international success, but new Uefa data shows that there are only 2,769 English coaches holding Uefa's B, A and Pro badges, its top qualifications. Spain has produced 23,995, Italy 29,420, Germany 34,970 and France 17,588.

 

Full article..

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2010/jun/01/football-coach-shortage-england

[womblemaster]

I hate the waythe national team interferes with my premiership viewing. 

 

Fa is run by elitest scum who are far removed from ave fans, and shouldnt be spoiling our enjoyment of the game.

 

(i have no interestinthe performance of england)

[AlanSkÃrare]

Two of those 2 769 managers are Joe Kinnear and Alan Pardew.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

I hate the waythe national team interferes with my premiership viewing. 

 

Fa is run by elitest scum who are far removed from ave fans, and shouldnt be spoiling our enjoyment of the game.

 

(i have no interestinthe performance of england)

 

Tough shit mate, there's a thing called international football. Who says the Premier League is more important?

[Cronky]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/23963416

 

Greg Dyke is talking a load of rubbish. Our lack of success has been a feature since England became seriously involved in competitive international football in the 1950s. It predates the Premiership by a long way, and is primarily down to the lack of technical ability in English players. At the very top level, we get found out.

 

If anything the gap in technique between ourselves and the rest has narrowed since the Premiership was formed, even though it's still there. And the current England team are better than the vast majority of England teams I've had to watch over the last 40 years.

[The College Dropout]

No it's not. If they make the WC it will be close.

[hakka]

Football Association chairman Greg Dyke admits he does not expect England to win the World Cup in Brazil next year.

 

 

 

I love the use of the word "admits" as if he's had to sneakily reveal he has a concern deep down that we may not win it.

[SEMTEX]

Football Association chairman Greg Dyke admits he does not expect England to win the World Cup in Brazil next year.

 

http://i.imgur.com/RnP7jVe.png

[Trumpet]

I noticed England are fucked if they lose to Ukraine on tuesday.

 

Last in table of 2nd placed teams....Luckily for England, Moldava managed a draw from Poland in June, so the group didn't become a 4-way battle !

[Incognito]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/23963416

 

Greg Dyke is talking a load of rubbish. Our lack of success has been a feature since England became seriously involved in competitive international football in the 1950s. It predates the Premiership by a long way, and is primarily down to the lack of technical ability in English players. At the very top level, we get found out.

 

If anything the gap in technique between ourselves and the rest has narrowed since the Premiership was formed, even though it's still there. And the current England team are better than the vast majority of England teams I've had to watch over the last 40 years.

 

The early Sir Bobby teams, say 82-84 when the old guard of Ron Greenwood had retired and Sir Bobby was floundering somewhat, which incidentally he did quite a lot of as England manager, we had some awful performances and one in particular against Russia in 84 when he selected Steve Hunt and John Gregory in midfield which I can never forget.

 

But even those days fade into insignificance to when Graham Taylor was selecting Geoff Thomas and Carlton fucking Palmer. That's the worst England times I can remember.

[Novocastrian]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/23963416

 

Greg Dyke is talking a load of rubbish. Our lack of success has been a feature since England became seriously involved in competitive international football in the 1950s. It predates the Premiership by a long way, and is primarily down to the lack of technical ability in English players. At the very top level, we get found out.

 

If anything the gap in technique between ourselves and the rest has narrowed since the Premiership was formed, even though it's still there. And the current England team are better than the vast majority of England teams I've had to watch over the last 40 years.

 

The early Sir Bobby teams, say 82-84 when the old guard of Ron Greenwood had retired and Sir Bobby was floundering somewhat, which incidentally he did quite a lot of as England manager, we had some awful performances and one in particular against Russia in 84 when he selected Steve Hunt and John Gregory in midfield which I can never forget.

 

But even those days fade into insignificance to when Graham Taylor was selecting

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/23963416

 

Greg Dyke is talking a load of rubbish. Our lack of success has been a feature since England became seriously involved in competitive international football in the 1950s. It predates the Premiership by a long way, and is primarily down to the lack of technical ability in English players. At the very top level, we get found out.

 

If anything the gap in technique between ourselves and the rest has narrowed since the Premiership was formed, even though it's still there. And the current England team are better than the vast majority of England teams I've had to watch over the last 40 years.

 

The early Sir Bobby teams, say 82-84 when the old guard of Ron Greenwood had retired and Sir Bobby was floundering somewhat, which incidentally he did quite a lot of as England manager, we had some awful performances and one in particular against Russia in 84 when he selected Steve Hunt and John Gregory in midfield which I can never forget.

 

But even those days fade into insignificance to when Graham Taylor was selecting Geoff Thomas and Carlton f***ing Palmer. That's the worst England times I can remember.

and Carlton f***ing Palmer. That's the worst England times I can remember.

 

Bad times, for anyone not old enough to remember search for 'THAT Geoff Thomas Miss' on a popular web-site.

[Dave]

England team to play Moldova:

 

                  Hart

Walker Cahill Jagielka Cole

Gerrard Lampard Wilshere

Walcott Lambert Welbeck

 

:lol: