Dinho lad Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Trying not to draw too many conclusion from a couple of narrow defeats against one on the best defences in the world and one of the most dangerous forwards. Depressing obviously, but I don't think it's time to trot out all the same old England disappointment headlines. Can you name the 2 Italian full-backs? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ste Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Yes agree about Johnson. I thought he looked nervy when they were in possession but decent enough offensively. Bit lucky for his assist but we needed someone to try and go past a man. I remember seeing Sven try Beckham in a similar role. You need legs in your midfield at international level, and especially in that kind of climate. Perhaps the plan was for Gerrard to sit deep and watch the ball to Suarez but Suarez was so mobile that it was pointless. You're assuming that one of the worlds best off the ball is going to stay still and sit behind a defensive midfielder. Naive tactics. Yup that's why teams playing a registered tend to have 2 players in front of the deepest midfielder if he's creative. Watch France tonight who play 433 but with Pogba and Matuidi covering a lot of the ground in front of Cabaye This is also apart of the reason why Liverpool fell apart at the end of the season they ran out of legs Henderson was knackered and Allan and lucas aren't good enough players all around to play the box to box role Yeah, it just doesn't work with a midfield 2 like that. Id only look to play someone that deep if they were Makelele quality, other than that I'd prefer Wilshere in there who can play deep but has enough awareness of the role to know when to move up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Flash Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Henderson always seems so close to his midfield partner. It's like he can't get through a game without holding hands as if he is a terrified kid. He's only in there to "be busy" which is basically "make up the numbers". 20 years ago he'd be classed as a nothing player but now he's an automatic starter for his country. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Henderson always seems so close to his midfield partner. It's like he can't get through a game without holding hands as if he is a terrified kid. He's only in there to "be busy" which is basically "make up the numbers". 20 years ago he'd be classed as a nothing player but now he's an automatic starter for his country. He's there to make up for the fact Gerrard can't run, he's essential IMO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
r0cafella Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Yes agree about Johnson. I thought he looked nervy when they were in possession but decent enough offensively. Bit lucky for his assist but we needed someone to try and go past a man. I remember seeing Sven try Beckham in a similar role. You need legs in your midfield at international level, and especially in that kind of climate. Perhaps the plan was for Gerrard to sit deep and watch the ball to Suarez but Suarez was so mobile that it was pointless. You're assuming that one of the worlds best off the ball is going to stay still and sit behind a defensive midfielder. Naive tactics. Yup that's why teams playing a registered tend to have 2 players in front of the deepest midfielder if he's creative. Watch France tonight who play 433 but with Pogba and Matuidi covering a lot of the ground in front of Cabaye This is also apart of the reason why Liverpool fell apart at the end of the season they ran out of legs Henderson was knackered and Allan and lucas aren't good enough players all around to play the box to box role Yeah, it just doesn't work with a midfield 2 like that. Id only look to play someone that deep if they were Makelele quality, other than that I'd prefer Wilshere in there who can play deep but has enough awareness of the role to know when to move up. I don't think Wilshere is good enough to play in a midfield two at international level personally. In fact I don't think any of our central midfielders are. We either go 4-2-3-1 with a double pivot forming a shield or we go 4-3-3 with given our midfielders an anchor I don't think we have the players to play either system particularly well mind. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 I don't see why Sturridge couldn't play wide in a 4-3-3, and Rooney would be good as a the central pivot as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Flash Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Henderson always seems so close to his midfield partner. It's like he can't get through a game without holding hands as if he is a terrified kid. He's only in there to "be busy" which is basically "make up the numbers". 20 years ago he'd be classed as a nothing player but now he's an automatic starter for his country. He's there to make up for the fact Gerrard can't run, he's essential IMO. Such a crap reason to start someone consistently at the World Cup He doesn't offer anything. He doesn't help the defence, we don't control the midfield and he can't attack. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shearergol Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Henderson always seems so close to his midfield partner. It's like he can't get through a game without holding hands as if he is a terrified kid. He's only in there to "be busy" which is basically "make up the numbers". 20 years ago he'd be classed as a nothing player but now he's an automatic starter for his country. He's there to make up for the fact Gerrard can't run, he's essential IMO. Gerrard shouldn't be playing, which removes the need for Henderson. Quite easy really. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ste Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Yes agree about Johnson. I thought he looked nervy when they were in possession but decent enough offensively. Bit lucky for his assist but we needed someone to try and go past a man. I remember seeing Sven try Beckham in a similar role. You need legs in your midfield at international level, and especially in that kind of climate. Perhaps the plan was for Gerrard to sit deep and watch the ball to Suarez but Suarez was so mobile that it was pointless. You're assuming that one of the worlds best off the ball is going to stay still and sit behind a defensive midfielder. Naive tactics. Yup that's why teams playing a registered tend to have 2 players in front of the deepest midfielder if he's creative. Watch France tonight who play 433 but with Pogba and Matuidi covering a lot of the ground in front of Cabaye This is also apart of the reason why Liverpool fell apart at the end of the season they ran out of legs Henderson was knackered and Allan and lucas aren't good enough players all around to play the box to box role Yeah, it just doesn't work with a midfield 2 like that. Id only look to play someone that deep if they were Makelele quality, other than that I'd prefer Wilshere in there who can play deep but has enough awareness of the role to know when to move up. I don't think Wilshere is good enough to play in a midfield two at international level personally. In fact I don't think any of our central midfielders are. We either go 4-2-3-1 with a double pivot forming a shield or we go 4-3-3 with given our midfielders an anchor I don't think we have the players to play either system particularly well mind. Yeah I'd look at 4-3-3 because you have the flexibility with it to pull your wide men back deep. No idea about who to play the deeper role but ahead of him I'd have Wilshere and Barkley. Priority for the Euros for me would be to have Barkley and Sturridge develop a very good understanding of each other's play. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
r0cafella Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Yes agree about Johnson. I thought he looked nervy when they were in possession but decent enough offensively. Bit lucky for his assist but we needed someone to try and go past a man. I remember seeing Sven try Beckham in a similar role. You need legs in your midfield at international level, and especially in that kind of climate. Perhaps the plan was for Gerrard to sit deep and watch the ball to Suarez but Suarez was so mobile that it was pointless. You're assuming that one of the worlds best off the ball is going to stay still and sit behind a defensive midfielder. Naive tactics. Yup that's why teams playing a registered tend to have 2 players in front of the deepest midfielder if he's creative. Watch France tonight who play 433 but with Pogba and Matuidi covering a lot of the ground in front of Cabaye This is also apart of the reason why Liverpool fell apart at the end of the season they ran out of legs Henderson was knackered and Allan and lucas aren't good enough players all around to play the box to box role Yeah, it just doesn't work with a midfield 2 like that. Id only look to play someone that deep if they were Makelele quality, other than that I'd prefer Wilshere in there who can play deep but has enough awareness of the role to know when to move up. I don't think Wilshere is good enough to play in a midfield two at international level personally. In fact I don't think any of our central midfielders are. We either go 4-2-3-1 with a double pivot forming a shield or we go 4-3-3 with given our midfielders an anchor I don't think we have the players to play either system particularly well mind. Yeah I'd look at 4-3-3 because you have the flexibility with it to pull your wide men back deep. No idea about who to play the deeper role but ahead of him I'd have Wilshere and Barkley. Priority for the Euros for me would be to have Barkley and Sturridge develop a very good understanding of each other's play. Yup I think that's the biggest problem a complete lack of players who can play the deeper midfield role. It's more apart of the endemic problem throughout English football though, we don't excel at having players playing specialised roles Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Henderson always seems so close to his midfield partner. It's like he can't get through a game without holding hands as if he is a terrified kid. He's only in there to "be busy" which is basically "make up the numbers". 20 years ago he'd be classed as a nothing player but now he's an automatic starter for his country. He's there to make up for the fact Gerrard can't run, he's essential IMO. Gerrard shouldn't be playing, which removes the need for Henderson. Quite easy really. As the youths may enunciate: boom, head shot. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeyt Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 You have 3 games to get out of the group stage, we've played 66.66% (recurring) of them. I think a judgement can be made tbh. Thanks Nees Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 You have 3 games to get out of the group stage, we've played 66.66% (recurring) of them. I think a judgement can be made tbh. Thanks Nees No problem Joey. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Those digits would have got away with it too if it wasn't for that pesky Nee. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prophet Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Been saying for months Gerrard-Henderson would leave the side vulnerableas a defensive unit, see Liverpool minus Lucas. As overrated as I think it is it might have been worth taking Jones to add a bit of insurance in the middle. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorJ_01 Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Gareth.... Ba..... Barry? Anyone? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Been saying for months Gerrard-Henderson would leave the side vulnerableas a defensive unit, see Liverpool minus Lucas. As overrated as I think it is it might have been worth taking Jones to add a bit of insurance in the middle. They did take Jones. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prophet Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Been saying for months Gerrard-Henderson would leave the side vulnerableas a defensive unit, see Liverpool minus Lucas. As overrated as I think it is it might have been worth taking Jones to add a bit of insurance in the middle. They did take Jones. You'd of though given the lack of defensive midfielder he'd have been given a run out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Henderson always seems so close to his midfield partner. It's like he can't get through a game without holding hands as if he is a terrified kid. He's only in there to "be busy" which is basically "make up the numbers". 20 years ago he'd be classed as a nothing player but now he's an automatic starter for his country. He's there to make up for the fact Gerrard can't run, he's essential IMO. Gerrard shouldn't be playing, which removes the need for Henderson. Quite easy really. As the youths may enunciate: boom, head shot. On aye, I agree, I just think that realistically no manager was going to leave Gerrard out, therefore Wilshere can't really play and Henderson has to. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incognito Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Gerrard deserved his place, firstly on the back of a very good Premiership season, where he was comfortably the best English midfield player. Secondly he has been worthy of his position because of his performances whilst he's been captain. He was our best player at Euro 12 and has been consistently adequate since. However, it is definitely time to move on from him now, I'd leave him out of the side for the Costa Rica game. That said, there'd be a few more Merseyside players I'd be leaving out with him.....in fact all of them except Sturridge, Sterling and Barkley. I never rated Sir Bobby as an England manager. In 2 World Cups we had fairly successful campaigns in spite of his management not because of it. But he wouldn't have been afraid to throw the likes of Barkley in from the start, like he did with Gazza in much the same circumstances pre Italia 90. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Lallana was the best English midfielder last season. But yes, fair play to you for calling it like it is regarding his future. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incognito Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Lallana was the best English midfielder last season. But yes, fair play to you for calling it like it is regarding his future. There is no point in playing him bar Hodgson being sentimental. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dinho lad Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Lallana was the best English midfielder last season. But yes, fair play to you for calling it like it is regarding his future. Lallana wouldn't have made much impact due to Uruguay's aggressiveness. He plays like a pussy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Gerrard deserved his place, firstly on the back of a very good Premiership season, where he was comfortably the best English midfield player. Secondly he has been worthy of his position because of his performances whilst he's been captain. I basically agree with that but IMO the overriding factor should be the selection that results in the most balanced and productive team overall. Not that it ever happens. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEMTEX Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Don't think the choice of players makes a huge deal of difference right now tbh. I think whatever squad of players we have, we need someone who is capable of getting them to play on the big stage without shitting their pants at the slightest bit of pressure. The only time we looked capable was when we were losing. England will never win anything until there is a huge huge psychological change within the squad. I know the pressure put on them by the media/fanbase is great, but we're by no means alone on that, and plenty of countries get mediocre players to play well because they instill the mentality that these games are there to be cherished, and for you to take control of. We seem to go out thinking "whatever you do, don't fuck up", which quite obviously results in people fucking up. Anyway, rage. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts