The England Thread

[SEMTEX]

So all we need is 1 Sanchez and our defenders will perform way above their level? Class.

[TRon]

We lack some world class players and a world class manager.

 

pretty simple really.

 

Chile beat Spain with players from Nottingham Forest.

 

 

 

Even mediocre South American teams generally look more comfortable on the ball than the English. We are better in a lot of ways in that we don't fanny around passing the ball backwards and sideways, but I wonder if we might look better on the international stage if we picked a couple of flair players instead of sticking with the big name legends?

 

 

[TaylorJ_01]

We lack some world class players and a world class manager.

 

pretty simple really.

 

Chile beat Spain with players from Nottingham Forest.

 

 

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-RU1CvT2EsIY/UCFI6yoYWDI/AAAAAAAAA08/vBRVoUZi1jo/s200/Chokeslam+through+the+table.gif

 

[triggs]

So all we need is 1 Sanchez and our defenders will perform way above their level? Class.

Well I think Vidal in midfield would be a big help to England at both sides of the field

[Segun Oluwaniyi]

I don't believe it a talent issue. Man for man, England is the best side in that group, imo.

[Segun Oluwaniyi]

So all we need is 1 Sanchez and our defenders will perform way above their level? Class.

Well I think Vidal in midfield would be a big help to England at both sides of the field

Vidal might be the best CM in the entire world.

[Mike]

You just don't give a fuck, is all.

[chicago_shearer]

Don't think the choice of players makes a huge deal of difference right now tbh. I think whatever squad of players we have, we need someone who is capable of getting them to play on the big stage without shitting their pants at the slightest bit of pressure. The only time we looked capable was when we were losing. England will never win anything until there is a huge huge psychological change within the squad. I know the pressure put on them by the media/fanbase is great, but we're by no means alone on that, and plenty of countries get mediocre players to play well because they instill the mentality that these games are there to be cherished, and for you to take control of. We seem to go out thinking "whatever you do, don't f*** up", which quite obviously results in people f***ing up.

 

Anyway, rage.

 

Yep. In the last 4 World Cups, how many decent England performances with a positive result? Maybe 2? Or 1 (R16 v Denmark in Japan). There's a deeper problem. Other teams seem to approach these tournaments with joy, confidence and excitement. I've been watching the Spanish language coverage of the Mexican and Central American teams (lasses in football tops ) and the attitude to the tournament and their own chances is so different. And I think that mentality motivates otherwise average players to excel. They embrace the occasion. With the English, it's all fear. Nail biting about Suarez or Balotelli or Pirlo, building them up, moaning about penalties or some statistic about Rooney never scoring at a World Cup etc. Bringing a team psychiatrist to Brazil FFS. If Germany play Uruguay in the knockout stages, I can't see them shitting the bed for a week about the PFA Player of the Year.

 

Some good, relevant points above about how they were set up and the failings of that Gerrard/Henderson partnership, but minus Suarez, that Uruguay side isn't particularly good. Suarez took his chances well, but the players in that maligned England back four will undoubtably do a better job against similarly great players when they wear their club shirts next season. The heads just drop when they play for England. Maybe the culture can change with a new generation.

[The Prophet]

Defensively, we've looked vulnerable in both games. The midfield have played a major part in that.

 

You can't blame the midfield for Jagielka ball watching on two occasions.

 

The fact is there are three out of the back 4 who aren't good enough.

 

...but you can the midfield for the amount if exposure Jagielka suffered per game. When you're defence isn't good enough you need a midfield that will A) keep the ball and/or B) shield the back four. Ours was set up to do neither.

[Interpolic]

I know this is stating the obvious but it appears deeply unlikely that Italy will get 9 points in the group, they never seem to usually.

[Incognito]

Defensively, we've looked vulnerable in both games. The midfield have played a major part in that.

 

You can't blame the midfield for Jagielka ball watching on two occasions.

 

The fact is there are three out of the back 4 who aren't good enough.

 

...but you can the midfield for the amount if exposure Jagielka suffered per game. When you're defence isn't good enough you need a midfield that will A) keep the ball and/or B) shield the back four. Ours was set up to do neither.

 

Or he could just select defenders that are good enough. This isn't club football where you're restricted by budget, some more than others, where you may need to shield certain players. This is the World Cup and we have decent defenders who aren't even there. Steven Gerrard isn't a shielding type midfielder nor will he ever be, he's a playmaker whose legs aren't what they were. Jordan Henderson is a box to box bog standard midfielder who has had a good season despite previously looking average at best.

 

[TRon]

I don't believe it a talent issue. Man for man, England is the best side in that group, imo.

 

It's the wrong mix of players IMO. We need a bit more flair in there where it matters. Man for man we might have had better players than Italy, but we had no one who could orchestrate like Pirlo.

[Beren]

Sometimes you get knocked out early but then 4 years later you are back in the tournament quite unpredictably.

 

[The Prophet]

Defensively, we've looked vulnerable in both games. The midfield have played a major part in that.

 

You can't blame the midfield for Jagielka ball watching on two occasions.

 

The fact is there are three out of the back 4 who aren't good enough.

 

...but you can the midfield for the amount if exposure Jagielka suffered per game. When you're defence isn't good enough you need a midfield that will A) keep the ball and/or B) shield the back four. Ours was set up to do neither.

 

Or he could just select defenders that are good enough. This isn't club football where you're restricted by budget, some more than others, where you may need to shield certain players. This is the World Cup and we have decent defenders who aren't even there. Steven Gerrard isn't a shielding type midfielder nor will he ever be, he's a playmaker whose legs aren't what they were. Jordan Henderson is a box to box bog standard midfielder who has had a good season despite previously looking average at best.

 

Who are these quality centre backs you speak of?

 

It's not shielding certain players either. It's just logical to select a midfield capable of keeping the ball in order to give the defence some respite.

[biggs]

I know this is stating the obvious but it appears deeply unlikely that Italy will get 9 points in the group, they never seem to usually.

1-0 to costa Rica half time

[Interpolic]

Yeah.

[Jayson]

They're better adapted to the heat, but this game shows the player ability argument doesnt add up as the main issue.

[r0cafella]

England really are the NUFC of international football.

 

Keep a failure of a manager because he should have a 4 year cycle

[Kimbo]

Good to know they've had a long hard think about the decision. 

[Tiresias]

meh I don;t think we'd attract anyone better, it'd be redknapp

[Klaus]

I don't believe it a talent issue. Man for man, England is the best side in that group, imo.

This sounds to much like the old 'wa better on paper marra' comments. It takes both mental strength and talent to perform on this stage, and we make have some talent, but too many of our 'big' players shy away at this level. 

 

[Kimbo]

meh I don;t think we'd attract anyone better, it'd be redknapp

 

Hodgson is the 2nd highest paid manager at the world cup behind Capello, I don't think attraction would be a problem.

[Tiresias]

I think that says the opposite, we have to pay even hodgson tons to get him to manage us 

[Wullie]

Don't think the choice of players makes a huge deal of difference right now tbh. I think whatever squad of players we have, we need someone who is capable of getting them to play on the big stage without shitting their pants at the slightest bit of pressure. The only time we looked capable was when we were losing. England will never win anything until there is a huge huge psychological change within the squad. I know the pressure put on them by the media/fanbase is great, but we're by no means alone on that, and plenty of countries get mediocre players to play well because they instill the mentality that these games are there to be cherished, and for you to take control of. We seem to go out thinking "whatever you do, don't f*** up", which quite obviously results in people f***ing up.

 

Anyway, rage.

 

Yep. In the last 4 World Cups, how many decent England performances with a positive result? Maybe 2? Or 1 (R16 v Denmark in Japan). There's a deeper problem. Other teams seem to approach these tournaments with joy, confidence and excitement. I've been watching the Spanish language coverage of the Mexican and Central American teams (lasses in football tops ) and the attitude to the tournament and their own chances is so different. And I think that mentality motivates otherwise average players to excel. They embrace the occasion. With the English, it's all fear. Nail biting about Suarez or Balotelli or Pirlo, building them up, moaning about penalties or some statistic about Rooney never scoring at a World Cup etc. Bringing a team psychiatrist to Brazil FFS. If Germany play Uruguay in the knockout stages, I can't see them shitting the bed for a week about the PFA Player of the Year.

 

Some good, relevant points above about how they were set up and the failings of that Gerrard/Henderson partnership, but minus Suarez, that Uruguay side isn't particularly good. Suarez took his chances well, but the players in that maligned England back four will undoubtably do a better job against similarly great players when they wear their club shirts next season. The heads just drop when they play for England. Maybe the culture can change with a new generation.

 

This is a really good post, and spot on.

[Interpolic]

I think that says the opposite, we have to pay even hodgson tons to get him to manage us 

 

As daft as it is, I think it's more of a case of paying him what's considered around market value for an England manager.  Pretty sure he's still getting paid loads less than Capello and Eriksson were.  If they stuck him on £1m a year or something it would be considered a bit of an insult, as mental as that sounds.

 

I do quite like Hodgson but the results haven't been good enough, his position should be being considered.  The problem clearly goes way beyond the manager though.