Joey Barton

[midds]

He'll be a Championship player in 9 months time I reckon. He's walked into a relegation battle but he's got his big contract.

 

Time will tell I suppose.

[JH]

Depends which way you look at it.

 

West Ham have signed the player that was instrumental in our immediate return to the PL and was amongst the best, if not the best, goalscorers in the division that year. Seems like a perfectly ambitious signing for a Championship club.

[Cajun]

'Bartons's greedy, Keegan's greedy, Shearer's greedy, Nolan's greedy, Carroll's greedy, Enrique's greedy...la,la,la,la,la,la,la,la,la not listening' ad f***ing infinitum.

 

Barton - Left for a much bigger wage than he merits

Keegan - The club were proven wrong here

Shearer - Contract was up, he hadn't exactly shown signs of being much of a manager to get us up, don't see an issue here.

Nolan - Left for a much bigger wage and length contract than he merits.

Carroll - We got a lot more than his market value, he got a massive payrise, joined a bigger club.

Enrique - Wouldn't sign new contract, joined a bigger club.

 

Nothing to do with the complete and utter lack of ambition at the club then? Thought not...

 

The Alan Carr and McDermott fetus show in effect, ladies and gentlemen.

 

 

 

 

Complete and utter lack of ambition?

 

 

 

Sign for less ambitious club.

 

 

 

 

 

Who?

 

Nolan and Barton.

 

I'd say both of them have joined more ambitious clubs than NUFC.

 

Seriously?

 

Can you explain what they have done to show more ambition?

 

In some cases they're buying other clubs' best players.

 

Cabaye and Marveaux seemed pretty well regarded.

 

Sorry just can't buy that, West Ham have the biggest idiots in football owning them (imagine us signing a forward for £7m, who had a release clause that was likely to be activated allowing him to leave for free in 6 months!) and despite having the richest owners in football QPR have done what? Their marquee signing is Barton on a free. Apart from Tarbaat (sp?) what quality do they have in their squad?

 

Nope not having that, especially not West Ham

[PineBarrens]

'Bartons's greedy, Keegan's greedy, Shearer's greedy, Nolan's greedy, Carroll's greedy, Enrique's greedy...la,la,la,la,la,la,la,la,la not listening' ad f***ing infinitum.

 

Barton - Left for a much bigger wage than he merits

Keegan - The club were proven wrong here

Shearer - Contract was up, he hadn't exactly shown signs of being much of a manager to get us up, don't see an issue here.

Nolan - Left for a much bigger wage and length contract than he merits.

Carroll - We got a lot more than his market value, he got a massive payrise, joined a bigger club.

Enrique - Wouldn't sign new contract, joined a bigger club.

 

Nothing to do with the club then? Thought not...

 

Your seeing it black and white, as many have said there is blame on all sides, your just ranting away, you have some valid points but they are being lost in your anger.

 

Okay, let's take Barton. The board in a fit of pique put a valuable member of the team on what is essentially a free transfer. Nolan I wouldn't have given the length of contract, but his comments about promises made sound depressingly familiar. Keegan was vindicated by an industrial injuries tribunal. Enrique may well have refused to sign a new contract but had made it abundantly clear that he believed the club lacked ambition. The Carroll deal moneywise was a very good deal, but is looking less like one every day without an adequate strikeforce. Shearer presumably wanted more than ju-ju beans and a curly-wurly as his transfer budget (or wanted £700 million for Messi et al depending who you believe).

 

So no, it's not black and white, but with every exit through the door the ringing chimes of 'mercenary' or 'greedy' is as disheartening as it is groundhog day-esque. Yes, everyone knows footballers can be greedy and arseholes to boot, but I'd wager that the underlying problem is more to do with Ashley's complete and utter lack of ambition. And again, although there's nothing you or I can do about that does not make it right or acceptable. The t***'s making supporting this club a sufferance than a labour of love.

 

Agree with most of what you put there mate, Carroll is the only one i blame more than any other, he only just signed a new contract, hears of Liverpools interest and asked for more, i made the board right on that one, Nolan again i think they made the right decision, not sure about how it was handled, Barton didn't need to muck about in January when he could have signed but he should not have been allowed to leave for me, Jose was always off for soemone else imo.

 

Just so happens they have all secured more money elsewhere, not sure that makes them greedy as such, only at Carrolls door would i lay that.

 

I just dont lay all the blame at dumb and dumbers door, fair chunk but not all of it.

 

Oh I concur, it would be nonsensical to lay the blame for every single thing that's gone wrong with NUFC, and actually believe it's a sensible thing to try and reduce the wage bill to a manageable level (even though such prudent measures are probably more to do with NUFC being primed for a sale at some point), but seemingly everytime things seem to be going okay at the club he, intentionally or otherwise, sticks his fat, useless oar in and makes a balls up of it - Kinnear, the Keegan fiasco, sports direct signage, re-naming rights, no capital outlay, binning Hughton etc. He's obviously a very successful businessman, but when it comes to running this football club he's like the anti-midas - everything he touches turns to shit.

[ponsaelius]

West Ham signing Nolan on a 5 year deal reaks of exactly the opposite of ambition to me.

 

In a similar situation, to whatever scale you earn at the minute, what would you do? would you fuck stay and stick it out. if your not appreciated for what you contribute, why would you stay.

 

 

I'm not criticising Nolan in this instance, more commenting on the idea that giving Kevin Nolan a 5 year deal on the reported wages is a sign of 'ambition'. To me, getting rid of him and attempting to replace him with younger, more dynamic footballers is more of a sign of ambition. This has never been the problem with me, it's the fact I don't think we'll replace Barton and the fact we're happy to have fuck all squad depth that pisses me off.

[Beren]

West Ham signing Nolan on a 5 year deal reaks of exactly the opposite of ambition to me.

 

Perhaps not especially prudent of them, but the intent of ambition is certainly there. Maybe they feel they can sell him on after two years to some other Championship side who feel he can do a job for them.

 

You think Nolan will do that? I bet anything they have a Smith situation where they can't shift him because of his wages.

 

Might do. Neither of us can tell the future. Well, we can tell Newcastle's future - shoot for the stars eye-level, and hit the sky ground

[MW]

West Ham signing Nolan on a 5 year deal reaks of exactly the opposite of ambition to me.

 

In a similar situation, to whatever scale you earn at the minute, what would you do? would you fuck stay and stick it out. if your not appreciated for what you contribute, why would you stay.

 

i actually agree with our stance on nolan, would rather have kept him for another year, dont see why not offering an extension when 2 years left was a big deal

 

in addition, what is nolan going to do once he retires? he has to look at for no1, don't blame him one bit when he has an offer like that that will secure his and his family's future

[JH]

West Ham signing Nolan on a 5 year deal reaks of exactly the opposite of ambition to me.

 

Perhaps not especially prudent of them, but the intent of ambition is certainly there. Maybe they feel they can sell him on after two years to some other Championship side who feel he can do a job for them.

 

You think Nolan will do that? I bet anything they have a Smith situation where they can't shift him because of his wages.

 

You mean like he did with us?

[Optimistic Nut]

In fact I see a situation where if West Ham fail to go up/QPR go down, we'll see both Nolan & Barton loaned out pretty much annually to newly promoted clubs or relegation strugglers where West Ham & QPR still have to pay a big chunk of their wages.

[MW]

West Ham signing Nolan on a 5 year deal reaks of exactly the opposite of ambition to me.

 

In a similar situation, to whatever scale you earn at the minute, what would you do? would you fuck stay and stick it out. if your not appreciated for what you contribute, why would you stay.

 

 

I'm not criticising Nolan in this instance, more commenting on the idea that giving Kevin Nolan a 5 year deal on the reported wages is a sign of 'ambition'. To me, getting rid of him and attempting to replace him with younger, more dynamic footballers is more of a sign of ambition. This has never been the problem with me, it's the fact I don't think we'll replace Barton and the fact we're happy to have fuck all squad depth that pisses me off.

 

for west ham it is a sign of ambition. flash back two years after witnessing what nolan had done for whoever in the championship, then followed it up with another very impressive season back in the prem, im sure we would have been very happy with signing him, and thought it to be very ambitous.

[Hanshithispantz]

'Bartons's greedy, Keegan's greedy, Shearer's greedy, Nolan's greedy, Carroll's greedy, Enrique's greedy...la,la,la,la,la,la,la,la,la not listening' ad f***ing infinitum.

 

Barton - Left for a much bigger wage than he merits

Keegan - The club were proven wrong here

Shearer - Contract was up, he hadn't exactly shown signs of being much of a manager to get us up, don't see an issue here.

Nolan - Left for a much bigger wage and length contract than he merits.

Carroll - We got a lot more than his market value, he got a massive payrise, joined a bigger club.

Enrique - Wouldn't sign new contract, joined a bigger club.

 

some people are desperate to accuse others of burying their head in the sand

 

Most of them won't be able to debate an issue and will offer daft smilies or crap personal insults as compensation for their inability instead.

Like you've just done?

[Optimistic Nut]

West Ham signing Nolan on a 5 year deal reaks of exactly the opposite of ambition to me.

 

Perhaps not especially prudent of them, but the intent of ambition is certainly there. Maybe they feel they can sell him on after two years to some other Championship side who feel he can do a job for them.

 

You think Nolan will do that? I bet anything they have a Smith situation where they can't shift him because of his wages.

 

You mean like he did with us?

 

Not sure who else will pay Nolan anywhere near what he's on in two-years, and a 31 year old Nolan heading into his latter years is hardly going to take a massive paycut to a club who'll no doubt be at his level to leave them.

[MW]

West Ham signing Nolan on a 5 year deal reaks of exactly the opposite of ambition to me.

 

In a similar situation, to whatever scale you earn at the minute, what would you do? would you fuck stay and stick it out. if your not appreciated for what you contribute, why would you stay.

 

 

I'm not criticising Nolan in this instance, more commenting on the idea that giving Kevin Nolan a 5 year deal on the reported wages is a sign of 'ambition'. To me, getting rid of him and attempting to replace him with younger, more dynamic footballers is more of a sign of ambition. This has never been the problem with me, it's the fact I don't think we'll replace Barton and the fact we're happy to have fuck all squad depth that pisses me off.

 

for west ham it is a sign of ambition. flash back two years after witnessing what nolan had done for whoever in the championship, then followed it up with another very impressive season back in the prem, im sure we would have been very happy with signing him, and thought it to be very ambitous.

 

although, I agree with you on the 5 year front, maybe that's just what it needed to take to get him in, in that respect in 3 years they may regret it, but someone else in the championship might keep the cycle going

[PineBarrens]

'Bartons's greedy, Keegan's greedy, Shearer's greedy, Nolan's greedy, Carroll's greedy, Enrique's greedy...la,la,la,la,la,la,la,la,la not listening' ad f***ing infinitum.

 

Barton - Left for a much bigger wage than he merits

Keegan - The club were proven wrong here

Shearer - Contract was up, he hadn't exactly shown signs of being much of a manager to get us up, don't see an issue here.

Nolan - Left for a much bigger wage and length contract than he merits.

Carroll - We got a lot more than his market value, he got a massive payrise, joined a bigger club.

Enrique - Wouldn't sign new contract, joined a bigger club.

 

Nothing to do with the club then? Thought not...

 

Your seeing it black and white, as many have said there is blame on all sides, your just ranting away, you have some valid points but they are being lost in your anger.

 

Okay, let's take Barton. The board in a fit of pique put a valuable member of the team on what is essentially a free transfer. Nolan I wouldn't have given the length of contract, but his comments about promises made sound depressingly familiar. Keegan was vindicated by an industrial injuries tribunal. Enrique may well have refused to sign a new contract but had made it abundantly clear that he believed the club lacked ambition. The Carroll deal moneywise was a very good deal, but is looking less like one every day without an adequate strikeforce. Shearer presumably wanted more than ju-ju beans and a curly-wurly as his transfer budget (or wanted £700 million for Messi et al depending who you believe).

 

So no, it's not black and white, but with every exit through the door the ringing chimes of 'mercenary' or 'greedy' is as disheartening as it is groundhog day-esque. Yes, everyone knows footballers can be greedy and arseholes to boot, but I'd wager that the underlying problem is more to do with Ashley's complete and utter lack of ambition. And again, although there's nothing you or I can do about that does not make it right or acceptable. The t***'s making supporting this club a sufferance than a labour of love.

 

I'm yet to see one person call them greedy or a mercenary btw. Plenty of people understanding why they'd take a payrise in two cases, or join a bigger club in the other two.

 

You only need to look at previous posts on this very forum to see Enrique, Carroll and Nolan having those very same epiphets tossed in their general direction, liberally or otherwise. Again though, it's missing the underlying reason why - Ashley has no ambition for this club and seemingly could not care less where the club finishes as long as we avoid relegation.

 

And yet two of those players are quite happy to join a recently relegated team, and a team who'll be lucky to survive...cool.

 

Which reinforces my point - they'd rather join such clubs that at least have a sliver of ambition than stay at a club they know, or at least feel, won't be going anywhere. No alarms and no suprises, as Mr Yorke once opined.

 

I'll bet you £50 that QPR & West Ham don't finish above Newcastle for as long as Barton & Nolan are there.

 

As long as Warlock Warnock and Easter Island noggin are in charge of those respective clubs, I wouldn't even bet you a pair of orthopaedic shoes that even Norwich won't finish ahead of them. If you're going to question the stature or current staus of the clubs they've joined or about to join, what on earth does that say about us? It's the equivalent of your lass finishing you for a speccy 18 stone geek with a WOW obsession, laughing heartily at him then thinking to yourself, 'hang on...'

[Cajun]

As Nut said on the last page, we will be ahead of Barton and Nolan for the rest of their careers. I have absolutely no doubt of that.

 

As long as they are at shit clubs performing better than they should then I suppose they still win though.

[Dave]

In fact I see a situation where if West Ham fail to go up/QPR go down, we'll see both Nolan & Barton loaned out pretty much annually to newly promoted clubs or relegation strugglers where West Ham & QPR still have to pay a big chunk of their wages.

 

To me, ambition is trying to get somewhere, trying to better yourself no matter what.

 

Whether you actually achieve it or not is a whole different story.

[Cajun]

'Bartons's greedy, Keegan's greedy, Shearer's greedy, Nolan's greedy, Carroll's greedy, Enrique's greedy...la,la,la,la,la,la,la,la,la not listening' ad f***ing infinitum.

 

Barton - Left for a much bigger wage than he merits

Keegan - The club were proven wrong here

Shearer - Contract was up, he hadn't exactly shown signs of being much of a manager to get us up, don't see an issue here.

Nolan - Left for a much bigger wage and length contract than he merits.

Carroll - We got a lot more than his market value, he got a massive payrise, joined a bigger club.

Enrique - Wouldn't sign new contract, joined a bigger club.

 

Nothing to do with the club then? Thought not...

 

Your seeing it black and white, as many have said there is blame on all sides, your just ranting away, you have some valid points but they are being lost in your anger.

 

Okay, let's take Barton. The board in a fit of pique put a valuable member of the team on what is essentially a free transfer. Nolan I wouldn't have given the length of contract, but his comments about promises made sound depressingly familiar. Keegan was vindicated by an industrial injuries tribunal. Enrique may well have refused to sign a new contract but had made it abundantly clear that he believed the club lacked ambition. The Carroll deal moneywise was a very good deal, but is looking less like one every day without an adequate strikeforce. Shearer presumably wanted more than ju-ju beans and a curly-wurly as his transfer budget (or wanted £700 million for Messi et al depending who you believe).

 

So no, it's not black and white, but with every exit through the door the ringing chimes of 'mercenary' or 'greedy' is as disheartening as it is groundhog day-esque. Yes, everyone knows footballers can be greedy and arseholes to boot, but I'd wager that the underlying problem is more to do with Ashley's complete and utter lack of ambition. And again, although there's nothing you or I can do about that does not make it right or acceptable. The t***'s making supporting this club a sufferance than a labour of love.

 

I'm yet to see one person call them greedy or a mercenary btw. Plenty of people understanding why they'd take a payrise in two cases, or join a bigger club in the other two.

 

You only need to look at previous posts on this very forum to see Enrique, Carroll and Nolan having those very same epiphets tossed in their general direction, liberally or otherwise. Again though, it's missing the underlying reason why - Ashley has no ambition for this club and seemingly could not care less where the club finishes as long as we avoid relegation.

 

And yet two of those players are quite happy to join a recently relegated team, and a team who'll be lucky to survive...cool.

 

Which reinforces my point - they'd rather join such clubs that at least have a sliver of ambition than stay at a club they know, or at least feel, won't be going anywhere. No alarms and no suprises, as Mr Yorke once opined.

 

I'll bet you £50 that QPR & West Ham don't finish above Newcastle for as long as Barton & Nolan are there.

 

As long as Warlock Warnock and Easter Island noggin are in charge of those respective clubs, I wouldn't even bet you a pair of orthopaedic shoes that even Norwich won't finish ahead of them. If you're going to question the stature or current staus of the clubs they've joined or about to join, what on earth does that say about us? It's the equivalent of your lass finishing you for a speccy 18 stone geek with a WOW obsession, laughing heartily at him then thinking to yourself, 'hang on...'

 

These ambitious clubs have managers that won't progress them? Hmm surely ambitious clubs won't accept that?

[JH]

In fact I see a situation where if West Ham fail to go up/QPR go down, we'll see both Nolan & Barton loaned out pretty much annually to newly promoted clubs or relegation strugglers where West Ham & QPR still have to pay a big chunk of their wages.

 

To me, ambition is trying to get somewhere, trying to better yourself no matter what.

 

Whether you actually achieve it or not is a whole different story.

 

[Optimistic Nut]

If QPR & West Ham had offered what the players were probably valued at in terms of wages, they'd not have joined them in a million years.

[PineBarrens]

'Bartons's greedy, Keegan's greedy, Shearer's greedy, Nolan's greedy, Carroll's greedy, Enrique's greedy...la,la,la,la,la,la,la,la,la not listening' ad f***ing infinitum.

 

Barton - Left for a much bigger wage than he merits

Keegan - The club were proven wrong here

Shearer - Contract was up, he hadn't exactly shown signs of being much of a manager to get us up, don't see an issue here.

Nolan - Left for a much bigger wage and length contract than he merits.

Carroll - We got a lot more than his market value, he got a massive payrise, joined a bigger club.

Enrique - Wouldn't sign new contract, joined a bigger club.

 

Nothing to do with the club then? Thought not...

 

Your seeing it black and white, as many have said there is blame on all sides, your just ranting away, you have some valid points but they are being lost in your anger.

 

Okay, let's take Barton. The board in a fit of pique put a valuable member of the team on what is essentially a free transfer. Nolan I wouldn't have given the length of contract, but his comments about promises made sound depressingly familiar. Keegan was vindicated by an industrial injuries tribunal. Enrique may well have refused to sign a new contract but had made it abundantly clear that he believed the club lacked ambition. The Carroll deal moneywise was a very good deal, but is looking less like one every day without an adequate strikeforce. Shearer presumably wanted more than ju-ju beans and a curly-wurly as his transfer budget (or wanted £700 million for Messi et al depending who you believe).

 

So no, it's not black and white, but with every exit through the door the ringing chimes of 'mercenary' or 'greedy' is as disheartening as it is groundhog day-esque. Yes, everyone knows footballers can be greedy and arseholes to boot, but I'd wager that the underlying problem is more to do with Ashley's complete and utter lack of ambition. And again, although there's nothing you or I can do about that does not make it right or acceptable. The t***'s making supporting this club a sufferance than a labour of love.

 

I'm yet to see one person call them greedy or a mercenary btw. Plenty of people understanding why they'd take a payrise in two cases, or join a bigger club in the other two.

 

You only need to look at previous posts on this very forum to see Enrique, Carroll and Nolan having those very same epiphets tossed in their general direction, liberally or otherwise. Again though, it's missing the underlying reason why - Ashley has no ambition for this club and seemingly could not care less where the club finishes as long as we avoid relegation.

 

And yet two of those players are quite happy to join a recently relegated team, and a team who'll be lucky to survive...cool.

 

Which reinforces my point - they'd rather join such clubs that at least have a sliver of ambition than stay at a club they know, or at least feel, won't be going anywhere. No alarms and no suprises, as Mr Yorke once opined.

 

I'll bet you £50 that QPR & West Ham don't finish above Newcastle for as long as Barton & Nolan are there.

 

As long as Warlock Warnock and Easter Island noggin are in charge of those respective clubs, I wouldn't even bet you a pair of orthopaedic shoes that even Norwich won't finish ahead of them. If you're going to question the stature or current staus of the clubs they've joined or about to join, what on earth does that say about us? It's the equivalent of your lass finishing you for a speccy 18 stone geek with a WOW obsession, laughing heartily at him then thinking to yourself, 'hang on...'

 

These ambitious clubs have managers that won't progress them? Hmm surely ambitious clubs won't accept that?

 

And who's to say they'll last long there? As long as Ashley remains in charge of NUFC this club will get nowhere. The model was Arsenal, now we're Wigan Athletic with a cold breeze.

[JH]

If QPR & West Ham had offered what the players were probably valued at in terms of wages, they'd not have joined them in a million years.

 

If we'd offered what the players were valued at in terms of wages and contracts, I believe they'd still be here.

[MW]

If QPR & West Ham had offered what the players were probably valued at in terms of wages, they'd not have joined them in a million years.

 

If we'd offered what the players were valued at in terms of wages and contracts, I believe they'd still be here.

 

not nolan though, not need to give him a contract that he wanted with 2 years left

[Optimistic Nut]

If QPR & West Ham had offered what the players were probably valued at in terms of wages, they'd not have joined them in a million years.

 

If we'd offered what the players were valued at in terms of wages and contracts, I believe they'd still be here.

 

You think Nolan & Barton are worth more than staying here on contracts until 2014 on £40-50k do you?

[JH]

If QPR & West Ham had offered what the players were probably valued at in terms of wages, they'd not have joined them in a million years.

 

If we'd offered what the players were valued at in terms of wages and contracts, I believe they'd still be here.

 

You think Nolan & Barton are worth more than staying here on contracts until 2014 on £40-50k do you?

 

What? Where did I say that? Who knows what they were offered. We're all speculating here.

[Hanshithispantz]

If we hadn't have wrapped Barton up in a pretty bow and gifted him to QPR he'd still be here. Warnock probably cannot believe his luck.