Guest malandro Posted February 13, 2010 Share Posted February 13, 2010 Guthrie’s a jack of all trades and a master of none. He’s a continuity player - somebody who makes himself available to receive the ball and then moves it on. Cantona might have called him a water carrier. It’s not a glamorous job but can be very important in the right set up. Unfortunately for him he’s been played out of position too often and his confidence is being eroded. It’s like he’s forgotten what his strengths are and doesn’t know what he’s supposed to be doing anymore. I’m fairly certain Guthire would have looked a lot better if he’d been playing for Swansea today. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted February 13, 2010 Share Posted February 13, 2010 A lot of people are using this as a defence: "he was still the 2nd best midfielder out there today" How does that excuse his performance? Jonas has played with the same lumbering statues but he still usually manages to hold defenders off and move it forward. Guthrie has a real problem holding the ball under pressure and for a central midfielder that's a worry. Jonas is a left winger, Guthrie isn't. On the many occasions I've seen him lose the ball he's usually been in a fairly central position. He doesn't really stay wide, he comes inside and ends up clogging the centre. I don't blame him for that, but once he's there you would expect him to hold possession better. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted February 13, 2010 Share Posted February 13, 2010 On the many occasions I've seen him lose the ball he's usually been in a fairly central position. He doesn't really stay wide, he comes inside and ends up clogging the centre. I don't blame him for that, but once he's there you would expect him to hold possession better. I agree that he comes inside, that just makes putting him on either wing even more stupid. It doesn't help him that he comes in to the middle and nobody is moving for him, we had nobody creating space today but Swansea players had no problem finding plenty. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted February 13, 2010 Share Posted February 13, 2010 On the many occasions I've seen him lose the ball he's usually been in a fairly central position. He doesn't really stay wide, he comes inside and ends up clogging the centre. I don't blame him for that, but once he's there you would expect him to hold possession better. I agree that he comes inside, that just makes putting him on either wing even more stupid. It doesn't help him that he comes in to the middle and nobody is moving for him, we had nobody creating space today but Swansea players had no problem finding plenty. The Swansea players were working harder all over the pitch. That's my main beef with Guthrie, I didn't see him busting a gut on or off the ball. The only one I saw running hard for 90 mins was Routledge - and he's the winger who's by definition supposed to be lazy! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Heneage Posted February 13, 2010 Share Posted February 13, 2010 He's got the same problem Jonas has really. No movement. When he picks the ball up he often only has 2 players ahead of him, the strikers. When you compare this to the antithesis of no movement, Arsenal, you can see why he struggles so much. He has two real options, pass to the strikers who will be doubled up on by central midfielders and centre backs, or back to Nolan and Smith who will inevitably hit it long, go back to the defence or give him it back. We saw his potential at home to Cardiff, when he played with 2 wingers who came for the ball drifted inside and played out wide, they had options in terms of where they could pass the ball, and it opened Cardiff up. I acknowledge it was a poor Cardiff side who were depleted in the midfield. I appreciate what Ashley has done, but think we still need vast overhauls in the summer. We have two wingers, Joans and Routledge, when we lose one, we become so horrendously lopsided. Taylor is a more traditional wideman, who won't really beat his opponent, but can put some decent crosses in. IF we get promtoed, we need to decide quick what style and formation we want to play, be it 4-4-2 or 4-5-1 etc. We then need to asses what players we have that can fulfill the roles. Guthrie for me would work well in a 4-5-1 or 4-3-3. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
macca888 Posted February 13, 2010 Share Posted February 13, 2010 Guthrie = Average championship standard player at best................................would suit someone like a Barnsley or a Sheffield Wednesday type team.................................Thinks he is better than he really is....................lacks pace, physique, awareness and fitness. We should sell him as soon as possible and be happy to get a million quid because he isnt even worth that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted February 13, 2010 Share Posted February 13, 2010 For journeymen, see Routledge. I'll judge Guthrie when he gets a season in centre mid, rather than being played out of position for best part of 16 months. Just as I wouldnt judge Ranger on playing on wing for same period. For the record, despite his deficencies he's put more in than Smith and Nolan put together since the turn of the year. A lot of people are using this as a defence: "he was still the 2nd best midfielder out there today" How does that excuse his performance? Jonas has played with the same lumbering statues but he still usually manages to hold defenders off and move it forward. Guthrie has a real problem holding the ball under pressure and for a central midfielder that's a worry. When I said that, it wasn't an excuse, it was highlighting how bad Smith and Nolan were and have been. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prophet Posted February 13, 2010 Share Posted February 13, 2010 Guthrie = Average championship standard player at best................................would suit someone like a Barnsley or a Sheffield Wednesday type team.................................Thinks he is better than he really is....................lacks pace, physique, awareness and fitness. We should sell him as soon as possible and be happy to get a million quid because he isnt even worth that. Aye flog him. We're just swimming in quality central midfielders at the moment. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted February 13, 2010 Share Posted February 13, 2010 Guthrie = Average championship standard player at best................................would suit someone like a Barnsley or a Sheffield Wednesday type team.................................Thinks he is better than he really is....................lacks pace, physique, awareness and fitness. We should sell him as soon as possible and be happy to get a million quid because he isnt even worth that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
macca888 Posted February 13, 2010 Share Posted February 13, 2010 prophet transfer window is closed. I meant flog him in the summer along with Smith, Butt and Nolan and replace them with players who have a basic idea on how to stay fit, can pass and move and create something because this lot havent got a fucking clue. By the way, we can still play Barton there when he is back. Try a midfield of Routledge, Hall, Barton and Jonas...................at least we would have some passion, pace, creativity and fitness Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prophet Posted February 13, 2010 Share Posted February 13, 2010 You think we'd ship four central midfielders and replace them all in one transfer window? I'd like to think it's possible but it isn't. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted February 13, 2010 Share Posted February 13, 2010 I didn't see the game today but my general opinion of Guthrie, is that he's good with the ball at his feet, and little else. He's got a reasonable footballing technique, and fairly decent vision (which is wasted with our static frontline), and - to be fair - an excellent shot on him. But that's sorta all he's got in his locker in my opinion. He just fades in and out of games alarmingly quickly; i don't know if it's a mental or a fitness thing but his engine is generally wank. I just wanna see him in the centre with an energetic box-to-boxer, who'll run all day, and Guthrie can do what he's good at. Either sitting back and knocking a forward pass here and there, or loitering in the opposition's half with a view to arriving late/pinging a long-ranger now and again. He's so not a winger it's untrue. Just another in a long line of recent squad players who are wrongfully used to an epic standard. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted February 13, 2010 Share Posted February 13, 2010 He's a real footballer, we don't have many in the centre of the park. I for one am very thankful that we have him, not that we use him to anywhere near full effect. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted February 13, 2010 Share Posted February 13, 2010 Aye, he is, he's an actual footballing footballer and i like him a lot. He just doesn't impose himself anything like as much as he should do. He's not someone you have in the team to do your legwork; and like i say, i don't know if that's a fitness issue or what - but he just won't run into the ground for 90 minutes. He's not got anything like the pace or stamina to do so. I'd sooner stick him up off the frontman than put him on the wing. He can deliver a decent ball - that's about all he's got for the wing. Some things are so simple yet so complicated. I'm bored of us shoving square pegs in round holes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
macca888 Posted February 13, 2010 Share Posted February 13, 2010 Prophet We dont need to buy 4 central midfielders. Just a couple of decent ones with ability and vision would be nice. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prophet Posted February 14, 2010 Share Posted February 14, 2010 Which means it would be daft selling all of the current crop. Guthrie may be nothing flash but he's better than anyone else we currently have in that position hence why he's worth keeping for the time being at least. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
macca888 Posted February 14, 2010 Share Posted February 14, 2010 Prophet So, what you are actaully saying is you would be happy to keep Guthrie in the side in the PL next season? You rate him higher than Barton as a footballer? IMO opinion, to survive in the PL next season, we are going to need players of greater all round quality and fitness than the likes of Smith, Butt, Nolan and Guthrie. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted February 14, 2010 Share Posted February 14, 2010 Where's the Smith thread btw? It's no excuse for Guthrie, but he's the least of our worries in that midfield. 1. He's the best we have available 2. Despite this he's playing out of position. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prophet Posted February 14, 2010 Share Posted February 14, 2010 I don't know about the side but I'd certainly keep him in the squad. And as far as Barton goes he was absolute wank before his injury. I suspect Hughton will use him as a wide man anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alberto2005 Posted February 14, 2010 Share Posted February 14, 2010 Decent player who's playing shit. We must keep him though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElDiablo Posted February 14, 2010 Share Posted February 14, 2010 As someone said earlier, if he was playing for Swansea today he'd have looked 10x the player. The movement and showing for the ball is generally shocking all around him when he picks it up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
macca888 Posted February 14, 2010 Share Posted February 14, 2010 Advocating going back to the PL with the same players that took us down in the first place would be a mistake. Granted, Guthrie has been played out of position most of the time but I worry about his lack of bite and fitness to play a major part in the centre of midfield. He was given plenty of opportunity in the middle last season and failed to really impress. There again, who did impress last season. Perhaps keep him as a squad member but we need better, fitter and more influential players than him playing in the centre wek in, week out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted February 14, 2010 Share Posted February 14, 2010 The only position I can see him making his own is as a holding midfielder where he can be excused walking about like a spectator most of the match. In this division he could probably set up our play better than Smith or Butt from there. The only worry would be whether he would be bullied and knocked about because he's quite feeble on the ball. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayson Posted February 14, 2010 Share Posted February 14, 2010 He should be playing in Nolans position every week. Neither of them are very good at moving off the ball, but i imagine Guthrie would get better at it playing next to someone who bothered to move themselves. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David28 Posted February 14, 2010 Share Posted February 14, 2010 I think Guthrie still showed that he is twice the player Nolan or Smith is. Once in the second half he moved from his left midfield position into the centre, had to played the ball and after he played he moved to be free and unmarked. That's basic football that everyone should do but unfortunately Smith and Nolan seem not to care what happens as soon as they played the ball away. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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