Portsmouth FC in yet more trouble - administration again?

[MKSC]

AFC Wimbledon have had the whole football world on their side. They love the romanticism of it. How the fans have saved the club. Watch that feeling erode as they climb the leagues. They are despised amongst the non-league clubs who have met them up to now. They turn up with their Bill Big Bollocks attitude, that other non league clubs are not worthy of gracing the same pitch as the saviours of football.

 

When their players and fans leave holes in your stadium, smash perimiter fences, abuse the few supporters you have, fight with stewards and basically trample all over you I guarantee you won't feel the same.

 

I've had to intervene as they've started on elderly volunteer stewards and other members of club staff. I've listened to them shout disgusting abuse at a young lad laying on their pitch with a leg broken in two places because they believe it was a bad tackle on his part, because the magnificent wombles can do no wrong.

 

Like I said, you can like the idea of them as much as you like, but the reality of them is far from romantic. Arseholes, the lot of them.

[Keefaz]

Wimbledon supporters? Arseholes? Surely some mistake.

[quayside]

But surely in the event of liquidation there would still be a firesale? By definition they must have to liquidise the assets, meaning selling the players contracts, etc. I've got an amusing image of bailiffs turning up at Pompey training and loading the players into the back of a van and then the lot of them showing up at one of those govt. auctions as bankrupt stock.

 

I'm not an expert on insolvency (thank God) but as I understand it the claim from HMRC cannot result in an administrator being appointed because only a creditor who has a floating charge can petition for an administrator to be appointed. And HMRC does not have such a charge on money owed, it is simply a preferred creditor (top of the list I think) that can call for a winding up so that assets are liquidated to settle its debt. So yes your image of the players being auctioned off to generate cash for HMRC isn't far off.

 

Another serious point here is the fact that the club is without doubt trading whilst insolvent, which can be a criminal act.

[KaKa]

Has Boateng passed his medical yet?

[Keefaz]

But surely in the event of liquidation there would still be a firesale? By definition they must have to liquidise the assets, meaning selling the players contracts, etc. I've got an amusing image of bailiffs turning up at Pompey training and loading the players into the back of a van and then the lot of them showing up at one of those govt. auctions as bankrupt stock.

 

I'm not an expert on insolvency (thank God) but as I understand it the claim from HMRC cannot result in an administrator being appointed because only a creditor who has a floating charge can petition for an administrator to be appointed. And HMRC does not have such a charge on money owed, it is simply a preferred creditor (top of the list I think) that can call for a winding up so that assets are liquidated to settle its debt. So yes your image of the players being auctioned off to generate cash for HMRC isn't far off.

 

Another serious point here is the fact that the club is without doubt trading whilst insolvent, which can be a criminal act.

 

Pompey spokesman has denied they are insolvent.

[PRL]

AFC Wimbledon have had the whole football world on their side. They love the romanticism of it. How the fans have saved the club. Watch that feeling erode as they climb the leagues. They are despised amongst the non-league clubs who have met them up to now. They turn up with their Bill Big Bollocks attitude, that other non league clubs are not worthy of gracing the same pitch as the saviours of football.

 

When their players and fans leave holes in your stadium, smash perimiter fences, abuse the few supporters you have, fight with stewards and basically trample all over you I guarantee you won't feel the same.

 

I've had to intervene as they've started on elderly volunteer stewards and other members of club staff. I've listened to them shout disgusting abuse at a young lad laying on their pitch with a leg broken in two places because they believe it was a bad tackle on his part, because the magnificent wombles can do no wrong.

 

Like I said, you can like the idea of them as much as you like, but the reality of them is far from romantic. Arseholes, the lot of them.

 

So you've had a bad experience with them then, which makes your view understandable, but comments such as "Arseholes, the lot of them" is absolute rubbish. My mates aren't arseholes and they follow them all around the country. They aren't vandals or hooligans. After last night Leeds fans are probably feeling similar about Carlisle fans... Doesn't make it right. We've all experienced shit fans from other teams (and even sometimes our own), but it's too easy to project that on to an entire fanbase / team. They have come up through the leagues fair and square, from absolutely nothing. They've got every right to feel pretty pleased with themselves about that.

[quayside]

But surely in the event of liquidation there would still be a firesale? By definition they must have to liquidise the assets, meaning selling the players contracts, etc. I've got an amusing image of bailiffs turning up at Pompey training and loading the players into the back of a van and then the lot of them showing up at one of those govt. auctions as bankrupt stock.

 

I'm not an expert on insolvency (thank God) but as I understand it the claim from HMRC cannot result in an administrator being appointed because only a creditor who has a floating charge can petition for an administrator to be appointed. And HMRC does not have such a charge on money owed, it is simply a preferred creditor (top of the list I think) that can call for a winding up so that assets are liquidated to settle its debt. So yes your image of the players being auctioned off to generate cash for HMRC isn't far off.

 

Another serious point here is the fact that the club is without doubt trading whilst insolvent, which can be a criminal act.

 

Pompey spokesman has denied they are insolvent.

 

Thats alright then  

 

The definition of insolvency is not being able to meet your debts as they fall due btw, so why are they in court and why weren't the players paid on time etc etc.

[Keefaz]

But surely in the event of liquidation there would still be a firesale? By definition they must have to liquidise the assets, meaning selling the players contracts, etc. I've got an amusing image of bailiffs turning up at Pompey training and loading the players into the back of a van and then the lot of them showing up at one of those govt. auctions as bankrupt stock.

 

I'm not an expert on insolvency (thank God) but as I understand it the claim from HMRC cannot result in an administrator being appointed because only a creditor who has a floating charge can petition for an administrator to be appointed. And HMRC does not have such a charge on money owed, it is simply a preferred creditor (top of the list I think) that can call for a winding up so that assets are liquidated to settle its debt. So yes your image of the players being auctioned off to generate cash for HMRC isn't far off.

 

Another serious point here is the fact that the club is without doubt trading whilst insolvent, which can be a criminal act.

 

Pompey spokesman has denied they are insolvent.

 

Thats alright then  :lol

 

The definition of insolvency is not being able to meet your debts as they fall due btw, so why are they in court and why weren't the players paid on time etc etc.

 

Well, exactly.

[quayside]

But surely in the event of liquidation there would still be a firesale? By definition they must have to liquidise the assets, meaning selling the players contracts, etc. I've got an amusing image of bailiffs turning up at Pompey training and loading the players into the back of a van and then the lot of them showing up at one of those govt. auctions as bankrupt stock.

 

I'm not an expert on insolvency (thank God) but as I understand it the claim from HMRC cannot result in an administrator being appointed because only a creditor who has a floating charge can petition for an administrator to be appointed. And HMRC does not have such a charge on money owed, it is simply a preferred creditor (top of the list I think) that can call for a winding up so that assets are liquidated to settle its debt. So yes your image of the players being auctioned off to generate cash for HMRC isn't far off.

 

Another serious point here is the fact that the club is without doubt trading whilst insolvent, which can be a criminal act.

 

Pompey spokesman has denied they are insolvent.

 

Thats alright then 

 

The definition of insolvency is not being able to meet your debts as they fall due btw, so why are they in court and why weren't the players paid on time etc etc.

 

Well, exactly.

 

If the spokesman had admitted that the club was insolvent then the directors are immediately liable. They are gambling on some backer coming along and bailing them out of this. 

[ikri]

Sounds like Portsmouth's owners have been playing some bizarre game of pass-the-parcel-bomb

 

In many legal systems, once a company becomes insolvent, the directors have to take particular care. Under UK law, trading while insolvent can trigger several provisions under the Insolvency Act 1986 which may have the effect of making directors of a company personally liable to contribute to the assets of a company.

 

The relevant provisions of the Insolvency Act 1986 include:

 

    * Wrongful trading - Section 214

    * Transaction at an undervalue - Section 238

    * Preferences - Section 239

    * Extortionate credit transactions - Section 244

 

Under wrongful trading legislation in the UK, if the company continues to trade while it is insolvent the directors of the company may become personally liable to contribute to the company's assets and help meet the deficit to unsecured creditors if the company's financial position is made worse by the directors continuing to trade instead of putting the company immediately into liquidation.

 

Does that mean that the new owner is now personally liable for their debts?  If he is, no wonder he's trying to offload it to someone else ASAP.

[jdckelly]

Sounds like Portsmouth's owners have been playing some bizarre game of pass-the-parcel-bomb

 

In many legal systems, once a company becomes insolvent, the directors have to take particular care. Under UK law, trading while insolvent can trigger several provisions under the Insolvency Act 1986 which may have the effect of making directors of a company personally liable to contribute to the assets of a company.

 

The relevant provisions of the Insolvency Act 1986 include:

 

    * Wrongful trading - Section 214

    * Transaction at an undervalue - Section 238

    * Preferences - Section 239

    * Extortionate credit transactions - Section 244

 

Under wrongful trading legislation in the UK, if the company continues to trade while it is insolvent the directors of the company may become personally liable to contribute to the company's assets and help meet the deficit to unsecured creditors if the company's financial position is made worse by the directors continuing to trade instead of putting the company immediately into liquidation.

 

Does that mean that the new owner is now personally liable for their debts?  If he is, no wonder he's trying to offload it to someone else ASAP.

he is a large creditor too so not sure how it works then

[Guest north shields lad]

West ham wont be happy. They will lose 4 points.

[jdckelly]

West ham wont be happy. They will lose 4 points.

liverpool will be very happy they'd be 3rd

[David Icke - Son of God]

But surely in the event of liquidation there would still be a firesale? By definition they must have to liquidise the assets, meaning selling the players contracts, etc. I've got an amusing image of bailiffs turning up at Pompey training and loading the players into the back of a van and then the lot of them showing up at one of those govt. auctions as bankrupt stock.

 

I'm not an expert on insolvency (thank God) but as I understand it the claim from HMRC cannot result in an administrator being appointed because only a creditor who has a floating charge can petition for an administrator to be appointed. And HMRC does not have such a charge on money owed, it is simply a preferred creditor (top of the list I think) that can call for a winding up so that assets are liquidated to settle its debt. So yes your image of the players being auctioned off to generate cash for HMRC isn't far off.

 

Another serious point here is the fact that the club is without doubt trading whilst insolvent, which can be a criminal act.

 

Pompey spokesman has denied they are insolvent.

 

[quayside]

Sounds like Portsmouth's owners have been playing some bizarre game of pass-the-parcel-bomb

 

In many legal systems, once a company becomes insolvent, the directors have to take particular care. Under UK law, trading while insolvent can trigger several provisions under the Insolvency Act 1986 which may have the effect of making directors of a company personally liable to contribute to the assets of a company.

 

The relevant provisions of the Insolvency Act 1986 include:

 

    * Wrongful trading - Section 214

    * Transaction at an undervalue - Section 238

    * Preferences - Section 239

    * Extortionate credit transactions - Section 244

 

Under wrongful trading legislation in the UK, if the company continues to trade while it is insolvent the directors of the company may become personally liable to contribute to the company's assets and help meet the deficit to unsecured creditors if the company's financial position is made worse by the directors continuing to trade instead of putting the company immediately into liquidation.

 

Does that mean that the new owner is now personally liable for their debts?  If he is, no wonder he's trying to offload it to someone else ASAP.

 

The new owner may not be a director in which case he's only liable for the money he's paid for his shares. This liability for trading whilst insolvent falls on the directors, and normally any director at risk will transfer every asset he's got to his wife in the months leading up to something like this. Pretty sure Peter Storrie is a director, but he's always been whiter than white so there's probably no problem........

 

They are playing the emotional blackmail card and pulling on the heart strings by talking about the devastating effect on the fans, and the its true the effect will be devasatating. But the problem here is that HMRC don't really give a sh*t about being the villains that bring the club down and the emotional defence is irrelevant. They have no customers in the commercial world, no business reputation at stake etc. They are just collecting money for the Exchequer owed by a business thats been run piss poorly. 

[MKSC]

AFC Wimbledon have had the whole football world on their side. They love the romanticism of it. How the fans have saved the club. Watch that feeling erode as they climb the leagues. They are despised amongst the non-league clubs who have met them up to now. They turn up with their Bill Big Bollocks attitude, that other non league clubs are not worthy of gracing the same pitch as the saviours of football.

 

When their players and fans leave holes in your stadium, smash perimiter fences, abuse the few supporters you have, fight with stewards and basically trample all over you I guarantee you won't feel the same.

 

I've had to intervene as they've started on elderly volunteer stewards and other members of club staff. I've listened to them shout disgusting abuse at a young lad laying on their pitch with a leg broken in two places because they believe it was a bad tackle on his part, because the magnificent wombles can do no wrong.

 

Like I said, you can like the idea of them as much as you like, but the reality of them is far from romantic. Arseholes, the lot of them.

 

So you've had a bad experience with them then, which makes your view understandable, but comments such as "Arseholes, the lot of them" is absolute rubbish. My mates aren't arseholes and they follow them all around the country. They aren't vandals or hooligans. After last night Leeds fans are probably feeling similar about Carlisle fans... Doesn't make it right. We've all experienced s*** fans from other teams (and even sometimes our own), but it's too easy to project that on to an entire fanbase / team. They have come up through the leagues fair and square, from absolutely nothing. They've got every right to feel pretty pleased with themselves about that.

 

It's not just me that has had a bad experience with them. And it wasn't just one time, it was six. And it really grated them that they never beat us in those six games. There isn't a group of fans that I have met who I detest more. I can accept that there are probably some that are perfectly normal, but I'm sure they would admit when asked that there is an element (a large element) of their fanbase who are just as I have described. They didn't have to start rising the leagues to feel smug. They were from the off. Marvelling in the glory of their own exsistence.

 

The only reason they have got where they are is money. They'll soon hit a brick wall and then the world will lose interest. I for one hope they get promoted into the league, as their is no chance of my team ever getting there, so in all probability (barring an FA Cup draw) I never have to see them again.

 

Actually, scratch that, if NUFC ever play them I'd be there. Just to show them how it feels to have a massive crowd, in comparison to what you are used to, turn up and trample all over your club.

[Superior Acuña]

AFC Wimbledon have had the whole football world on their side. They love the romanticism of it. How the fans have saved the club. Watch that feeling erode as they climb the leagues. They are despised amongst the non-league clubs who have met them up to now. They turn up with their Bill Big Bollocks attitude, that other non league clubs are not worthy of gracing the same pitch as the saviours of football.

 

When their players and fans leave holes in your stadium, smash perimiter fences, abuse the few supporters you have, fight with stewards and basically trample all over you I guarantee you won't feel the same.

 

I've had to intervene as they've started on elderly volunteer stewards and other members of club staff. I've listened to them shout disgusting abuse at a young lad laying on their pitch with a leg broken in two places because they believe it was a bad tackle on his part, because the magnificent wombles can do no wrong.

 

Like I said, you can like the idea of them as much as you like, but the reality of them is far from romantic. Arseholes, the lot of them.

 

It might make me think they're dickheads, but it won't make me think they should have just sucked it up while their club was moved to a new town an hour away.

[Exiled in Texas]

Just goes to show how badly football has been run/managed by the owners.  What the hell Scudamore was doing running about like a rat looking for more money I dont know.

 

What they should have been doing was saying "what can we do to make the league sustainable and competetive"

 

Instead of looking for more and more money each season,  Dickheads should have all agreed on a salary and transfer cap.  Nobs.

a salary and transfer cap wont come out of the premier league thats for sure it works against their main philosophy: spend spend spend f*** the long term consequences.

I feel for the portsmouth fans but somebody has to be made an example of if it will get it into the heads of some thick owners that spending way beyond your means is a bad thing. Besides even if they survive today it will only put off their doom for a while, they're f***ed and we all know it

the NHL had a simialr problem, players wages to high and not many fans coming through the door.  All the teams owners and the players unions agreed to salary caps.

 

Its worked wonders.

 

Salary caps work when the league being capped is still the best paying league after the cap is in place.  Players accept the cap because they can't earn more elsewhere, but in world football if you capped the Premier League, then all the top stars would move to Spain, Italy if they could earn more there.

[madras]

Just goes to show how badly football has been run/managed by the owners.  What the hell Scudamore was doing running about like a rat looking for more money I dont know.

 

What they should have been doing was saying "what can we do to make the league sustainable and competetive"

 

Instead of looking for more and more money each season,  Dickheads should have all agreed on a salary and transfer cap.  Nobs.

a salary and transfer cap wont come out of the premier league thats for sure it works against their main philosophy: spend spend spend f*** the long term consequences.

I feel for the portsmouth fans but somebody has to be made an example of if it will get it into the heads of some thick owners that spending way beyond your means is a bad thing. Besides even if they survive today it will only put off their doom for a while, they're f***ed and we all know it

the NHL had a simialr problem, players wages to high and not many fans coming through the door.  All the teams owners and the players unions agreed to salary caps.

 

Its worked wonders.

 

Salary caps work when the league being capped is still the best paying league after the cap is in place.  Players accept the cap because they can't earn more elsewhere, but in world football if you capped the Premier League, then all the top stars would move to Spain, Italy if they could earn more there.

if they could earn more. at a guess though i'd bet only barce and real madrid are paying anywhere near the wages that we were.

[Liam Liam Liam O]

The sad thing is a decent club like Portsmouth have had an opportunity with he revenue they've had to build some solid foundations for the future, a bit like us and Sunderland did, but instead they've neglected that in favour of the very short term and spent it on wages & transfer fees.  What happens then is you have nothing to fall back on (bigger attendances etc) when it all goes wrong. 

 

It's a bit like going to Blackpool for the day, you think about all the money that's passed through that shitty little town and absolutely none of it has been reinvested so now the place looks like a shithole. The pub and club owners have kept the lot.

[johnnypd]

Portsmouth never had the fanbase to do that though, whereas us and sunderland always had bigger potential. 

 

pompey have been in financial dire straits on numerous occasions too, almost went bankrupt in 76, almost went out of business in 88, sold to venables for a quid in 96, went into administration in 98, and now the latest trouble. seems like a club that's never had the backing to succeed. though the latest stuff seems to go back to gaydamak buying players based on his daddy's wealth and then buggering off to leave them to fend for themselves.

[Liam Liam Liam O]

They've got a better fanbase than their current facilities, particularly following the football boom & improving their corporate facilities could've also generated the money they're so badly lacking now. It could've still gone either way of course, what I've suggested is what Southampton did and they're no better off.

 

They've made a few individuals very rich though at the expense of the future of the club.

[Guest gggg]

Admin by next week then.

[ToonTastic]

Wonder what will happen with the FA Cup. Sunderland got knocked out by portsmouth who play Southampton at the weekend. If Pompey beat Southampton but then cease to exist and they give Southampton, Portsmouths place instead I can see Sunderland being a little pissed off.

[Belfast Boy]

Once the game against Southampton happens then the Sunderland tie is no more relevant than any other earlier ties Portsmouth played this year.