Mowen Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 Hughton will have EARNED the right to manage Newcastle United in the top-flight next season and we as fans are in no position to deny him that right other than to piss and moan about it on internet forums because he doesn't match up to what we consider to be the right man. Which begs the question - just who the fuck is the right man!? The number of managers we have went through over the years should teach us one thing - that there is no such person. Roeder did brilliantly for half a season to get us 7th but it was still pretty obvious to most that he wasn't the right man long term. I respect Hughton greatly for what he's done so far, he's got a long way to go to convince me he's good enough though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottledDog Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 Would you like to be relying on Ranger next season for Premiership survival if we go up? I not only brough up this comparison, I answered it in my last post. I would not get rid of Ranger if we go up. He is a promising player at the start of his career. I would have no problem loaning him out next season if we have better players up front. Hughton is the same, a promising manager at the start of his career, and, forgive me for repeating myself, for the lack of a load system for managers, unless Wenger fancies a challenge, he is worth a gamble sticking with. The comparison I made was meant to be wacky and that's why I used who I did. This division is miles behind the Premiership and that's why we can still get to the top with what we've got. What we have wasn't good enough to keep us in the Premiership and people want Hughton to manage in it because he will probably get us promoted, yet the players who will do the same aren't good enough. How is getting promoted a good guide to the capabilities of the manager but not the players who get us promotion? I have no answer to this as you're not making much sense to me, sorry. Besides the fact that the comparisons you are making are between players at the back end of their careers and took us down, and a manager at the start of his career, yet to develop and test himself in the Premiership (though had a cracking top flight stint a Tottenham ), managers are nothing like players and do entirely different jobs. A manager is there to buy and sell players within a budget, get a good support staff on board to help him get a team to work as a cohesive and hopefully successful unit both on and of the pitch, to man manage any issues his backroom team or the squad has, and to send the best group tactically onto the pitch to see us through 90 minutes give or take the odd sub. A player is there to be naturally sharp, fit, and canny enough at kicking a ball around to help the club win the game. I'm betting that the managers skill set may well be more transfererable between divisions than, say, a slightly balding ginger player with leaden legs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 If you take wins in competitive games (and leave out John Carver who ran the club for 1 sucessful game) Hughton comes top of ALL our managers since 1930 (before that it was a committee) Hughton 56.76% KK 54.98% Martin (47-50) 49.03% SBR 46.66% Roeder 45.83% Cox 44.97% Souness 44.82% Mather (35-39) 43.57% Livingstone (54-56) 43.43% Cunningham (30-35) 41.83% Rob you do come across against all your best efforts as some kind of muppet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottledDog Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 Hughton will have EARNED the right to manage Newcastle United in the top-flight next season and we as fans are in no position to deny him that right other than to piss and moan about it on internet forums because he doesn't match up to what we consider to be the right man. Which begs the question - just who the fuck is the right man!? The number of managers we have went through over the years should teach us one thing - that there is no such person. Roeder did brilliantly for half a season to get us 7th but it was still pretty obvious to most that he wasn't the right man long term. I respect Hughton greatly for what he's done so far, he's got a long way to go to convince me he's good enough though. Hughton comes across a lot better (not just personality wise, or his reluctance to refer to himself in the third person, but in terms of talking sense) than Roeder ever did, in my opinion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mowen Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 Hughton will have EARNED the right to manage Newcastle United in the top-flight next season and we as fans are in no position to deny him that right other than to piss and moan about it on internet forums because he doesn't match up to what we consider to be the right man. Which begs the question - just who the fuck is the right man!? The number of managers we have went through over the years should teach us one thing - that there is no such person. Roeder did brilliantly for half a season to get us 7th but it was still pretty obvious to most that he wasn't the right man long term. I respect Hughton greatly for what he's done so far, he's got a long way to go to convince me he's good enough though. Hughton comes across a lot better (not just personality wise, or his reluctance to refer to himself in the third person, but in terms of talking sense) than Roeder ever did, in my opinion. Yeah he's less of a prick but Roeder's achievements were more impressive imo (not to discredit Hughton). The difference between the start of that season and the end was insane. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Village Idiot Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 Roeder was a bit unlucky with injuries though. I remember when you basically had no strikers and kept playing Shola despite him needing a hip operation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 I have no answer to this as you're not making much sense to me, sorry. Besides the fact that the comparisons you are making are between players at the back end of their careers and took us down, and a manager at the start of his career, yet to develop and test himself in the Premiership (though had a cracking top flight stint a Tottenham ), managers are nothing like players and do entirely different jobs. A manager is there to buy and sell players within a budget, get a good support staff on board to help him get a team to work as a cohesive and hopefully successful unit both on and of the pitch, to man manage any issues his backroom team or the squad has, and to send the best group tactically onto the pitch to see us through 90 minutes give or take the odd sub. A player is there to be naturally sharp, fit, and canny enough at kicking a ball around to help the club win the game. I'm betting that the managers skill set may well be more transfererable between divisions than, say, a slightly balding ginger player with leaden legs. I think most people understand what a player and a manager does, this has become pointless. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElDiablo Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 Needs to take a trip to John Blades and get himself a suit. http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=169115576155#! Do it manz. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredbob Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 I don't quite get this. So was it wrong to keep Keegan in summer '93 while loads of the players who had brought us up were released? No, it wasn't wrong to keep Keegan at all. The point I'm trying to make with the players is that they aren't good enough for the Premiership and being top of the Championship doesn't change that, the same goes for the manager. People need to realise that whilst Hughton has done a good job in stabilising the dressing room he hasnt really notably improved anything that we've done on the pitch, we are getting good results by virtue simply having better players and poorer opposition, teams are creating a fair few chances against us and we arent exactly outplaying too many teams this season, if you look at most of the strikers throughout the division many of them are no way near as clinical as would be required in the division above, hence chances aren't being converted and we are coming out of games looking far more comfortable than we actually are. Had Hughton made us defensively solid (i.e shut out opposition like Kinnear managed to instill for a few games) or made us a dangerous attacking team then I would warrant alot more credit towards him. All this translates to is how this team, playing as it currently is would do in the Premiership against world class strikers, midfields and defences. When assessing any manager you have to look at the direct effect he has on the team onthe pitch, for comparisons sake when O'Neill, Hodgson, Moyes came to their current clubs they had an immediate effect on the way the club played and it was telling from the off. The same happened with Keegan towards the end the 2 seasons ago the same definitely hasnt hamppened with Hughton, he's satbilised the team and got it running in 3rd gear, I dont think he has steel or ability to take us into 4th gear. In compairison to other squads in this league we should really be no way near anyone in second place, we've dropped points against some very poor teams. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 Needs to take a trip to John Blades and get himself a suit. http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=169115576155#! Do it manz. Is that Delima who started that group? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElDiablo Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 Needs to take a trip to John Blades and get himself a suit. http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=169115576155#! Do it manz. Is that Delima who started that group? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thespence Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 Needs to take a trip to John Blades and get himself a suit. http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=169115576155#! Do it manz. Is that Delima who started that group? Very good Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Chris P Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 Hughton will have EARNED the right to manage Newcastle United in the top-flight next season and we as fans are in no position to deny him that right other than to piss and moan about it on internet forums because he doesn't match up to what we consider to be the right man. Which begs the question - just who the f*** is the right man!? The number of managers we have went through over the years should teach us one thing - that there is no such person. Roeder did brilliantly for half a season to get us 7th but it was still pretty obvious to most that he wasn't the right man long term. I respect Hughton greatly for what he's done so far, he's got a long way to go to convince me he's good enough though. I hope he suprises the lot of us and IMO he will Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottledDog Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 I have no answer to this as you're not making much sense to me, sorry. Besides the fact that the comparisons you are making are between players at the back end of their careers and took us down, and a manager at the start of his career, yet to develop and test himself in the Premiership (though had a cracking top flight stint a Tottenham ), managers are nothing like players and do entirely different jobs. A manager is there to buy and sell players within a budget, get a good support staff on board to help him get a team to work as a cohesive and hopefully successful unit both on and of the pitch, to man manage any issues his backroom team or the squad has, and to send the best group tactically onto the pitch to see us through 90 minutes give or take the odd sub. A player is there to be naturally sharp, fit, and canny enough at kicking a ball around to help the club win the game. I'm betting that the managers skill set may well be more transfererable between divisions than, say, a slightly balding ginger player with leaden legs. I think most people understand what a player and a manager does, this has become pointless. Yup. There is clear enough difference to see that sticking with Hughton barring any surprises is based on a whole different set of criteria as to whether or not a player can make the step up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottledDog Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 Simon Bird- Mike Ashley's biggest call yet: should he give Chris Hughton a shot at the Premier League or bring in a big name boss for next season? Clicky - http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/opinion/columnists/simon-bird/Newcastle Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benwell Lad Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 Simon Bird- Mike Ashley's biggest call yet: should he give Chris Hughton a shot at the Premier League or bring in a big name boss for next season? Clicky - http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/opinion/columnists/simon-bird/Newcastle A good, thought provoking, article which illustrates just how difficult a decision it will be, but the most salient point in the article is " It is probably unfair and potentially destabilising to be talking about Hughton’s long term prospects at this juncture, with job only half done." This is really not the time to be debating this. We need to be totally focused on the job in hand and the remaining games in the Championship. Anything else can wait. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnypd Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 Hughton will have EARNED the right to manage Newcastle United in the top-flight next season and we as fans are in no position to deny him that right other than to piss and moan about it on internet forums because he doesn't match up to what we consider to be the right man. Which begs the question - just who the fuck is the right man!? The number of managers we have went through over the years should teach us one thing - that there is no such person. Roeder did brilliantly for half a season to get us 7th but it was still pretty obvious to most that he wasn't the right man long term. I respect Hughton greatly for what he's done so far, he's got a long way to go to convince me he's good enough though. Hughton comes across a lot better (not just personality wise, or his reluctance to refer to himself in the third person, but in terms of talking sense) than Roeder ever did, in my opinion. Yeah he's less of a prick but Roeder's achievements were more impressive imo (not to discredit Hughton). The difference between the start of that season and the end was insane. agreed, was nothing short of a miracle to get us a european spot. roeder's achievements then outweight hughton's now as he did it in a better league. which is why for me 'earning' a shot at managing us shouldn't come into it. either you think hughton is the right man to lead us for the next 3 or so seasons, minimum, or he is not. no point pissing around with a manager you are not sure about on the premise that he has 'earned' the role. if we go up, yeah, he probably does, in a perfect world, deserve a shot at the premiership, his rightful reward. but everyone knew roeder wasnt the man for the job and we made a mistake with him out of some misguided sense of loyalty. if hughton stays on next season d id hope it is because he shows he is a capable manager for the future, not because of anything he's done in the past. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 Get promoted.....give Chrissy a pat on the back......remove all traces of him from the football club. What would be funny in a black humour sort of way, would be if we released Hughton and hired a big name manager like Steve Bruce who spent millions on achieving shite results a la Mackem bastards. While Hughton got hired by a Championship club and got promotion again. You have to admit, there's a chance it could happen seeing as bar maybe half a dozen managers, most big name managers have no more clue than Mike Ashley. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David28 Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 Hughton will have EARNED the right to manage Newcastle United in the top-flight next season and we as fans are in no position to deny him that right other than to piss and moan about it on internet forums because he doesn't match up to what we consider to be the right man. Which begs the question - just who the fuck is the right man!? The number of managers we have went through over the years should teach us one thing - that there is no such person. Roeder did brilliantly for half a season to get us 7th but it was still pretty obvious to most that he wasn't the right man long term. I respect Hughton greatly for what he's done so far, he's got a long way to go to convince me he's good enough though. Hughton comes across a lot better (not just personality wise, or his reluctance to refer to himself in the third person, but in terms of talking sense) than Roeder ever did, in my opinion. Yeah he's less of a prick but Roeder's achievements were more impressive imo (not to discredit Hughton). The difference between the start of that season and the end was insane. agreed, was nothing short of a miracle to get us a european spot. roeder's achievements then outweight hughton's now as he did it in a better league. which is why for me 'earning' a shot at managing us shouldn't come into it. either you think hughton is the right man to lead us for the next 3 or so seasons, minimum, or he is not. no point pissing around with a manager you are not sure about on the premise that he has 'earned' the role. if we go up, yeah, he probably does, in a perfect world, deserve a shot at the premiership, his rightful reward. but everyone knew roeder wasnt the man for the job and we made a mistake with him out of some misguided sense of loyalty. if hughton stays on next season d id hope it is because he shows he is a capable manager for the future, not because of anything he's done in the past. Some here seem to forget that Roeder had a far far better squad than Hughton has and ever will have. Roeder was very lucky in having many players available back from injury who weren't available for Souness (Souness was shit, though). Also Roeder had fairly "easy" teams to play against. And of course, like often said, almost every manager has his "honeymoon period" which Roeder certainly had. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnypd Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 Hughton will have EARNED the right to manage Newcastle United in the top-flight next season and we as fans are in no position to deny him that right other than to piss and moan about it on internet forums because he doesn't match up to what we consider to be the right man. Which begs the question - just who the fuck is the right man!? The number of managers we have went through over the years should teach us one thing - that there is no such person. Roeder did brilliantly for half a season to get us 7th but it was still pretty obvious to most that he wasn't the right man long term. I respect Hughton greatly for what he's done so far, he's got a long way to go to convince me he's good enough though. Hughton comes across a lot better (not just personality wise, or his reluctance to refer to himself in the third person, but in terms of talking sense) than Roeder ever did, in my opinion. Yeah he's less of a prick but Roeder's achievements were more impressive imo (not to discredit Hughton). The difference between the start of that season and the end was insane. agreed, was nothing short of a miracle to get us a european spot. roeder's achievements then outweight hughton's now as he did it in a better league. which is why for me 'earning' a shot at managing us shouldn't come into it. either you think hughton is the right man to lead us for the next 3 or so seasons, minimum, or he is not. no point pissing around with a manager you are not sure about on the premise that he has 'earned' the role. if we go up, yeah, he probably does, in a perfect world, deserve a shot at the premiership, his rightful reward. but everyone knew roeder wasnt the man for the job and we made a mistake with him out of some misguided sense of loyalty. if hughton stays on next season d id hope it is because he shows he is a capable manager for the future, not because of anything he's done in the past. Some here seem to forget that Roeder had a far far better squad than Hughton has and ever will have. Roeder was very lucky in having many players available back from injury who weren't available for Souness (Souness was shit, though). Also Roeder had fairly "easy" teams to play against. And of course, like often said, almost every manager has his "honeymoon period" which Roeder certainly had. he was also managing in the premiership. in terms of relative quality to the league they were/are playing in, Hughton's got a far, far better squad than Roeder ever had. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David28 Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 Hughton will have EARNED the right to manage Newcastle United in the top-flight next season and we as fans are in no position to deny him that right other than to piss and moan about it on internet forums because he doesn't match up to what we consider to be the right man. Which begs the question - just who the fuck is the right man!? The number of managers we have went through over the years should teach us one thing - that there is no such person. Roeder did brilliantly for half a season to get us 7th but it was still pretty obvious to most that he wasn't the right man long term. I respect Hughton greatly for what he's done so far, he's got a long way to go to convince me he's good enough though. Hughton comes across a lot better (not just personality wise, or his reluctance to refer to himself in the third person, but in terms of talking sense) than Roeder ever did, in my opinion. Yeah he's less of a prick but Roeder's achievements were more impressive imo (not to discredit Hughton). The difference between the start of that season and the end was insane. agreed, was nothing short of a miracle to get us a european spot. roeder's achievements then outweight hughton's now as he did it in a better league. which is why for me 'earning' a shot at managing us shouldn't come into it. either you think hughton is the right man to lead us for the next 3 or so seasons, minimum, or he is not. no point pissing around with a manager you are not sure about on the premise that he has 'earned' the role. if we go up, yeah, he probably does, in a perfect world, deserve a shot at the premiership, his rightful reward. but everyone knew roeder wasnt the man for the job and we made a mistake with him out of some misguided sense of loyalty. if hughton stays on next season d id hope it is because he shows he is a capable manager for the future, not because of anything he's done in the past. Some here seem to forget that Roeder had a far far better squad than Hughton has and ever will have. Roeder was very lucky in having many players available back from injury who weren't available for Souness (Souness was shit, though). Also Roeder had fairly "easy" teams to play against. And of course, like often said, almost every manager has his "honeymoon period" which Roeder certainly had. he was also managing in the premiership. in terms of relative quality to the league they were/are playing in, Hughton's got a far, far better squad than Roeder ever had. Given Carr Bramble Moore Elliott Solano >> our current side (even in terms of relative qualitiy to the leagues imo) Dyer Parker N'Zogbia Shearer Ameobi Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisJbarnes Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 If I remember right, Ashley gave Hughton a 2 year contract. Surely if he had planned to replace him after promotion, it would only have been a contract until the end of the season? A 2 year contract implies that the plan is to achieve promotion, and if it seems to all be going wrong and Hughton isnt as good as hoped, itll be relatively cheap to sack him just before/during/after the January Transfer window Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnypd Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 Hughton will have EARNED the right to manage Newcastle United in the top-flight next season and we as fans are in no position to deny him that right other than to piss and moan about it on internet forums because he doesn't match up to what we consider to be the right man. Which begs the question - just who the fuck is the right man!? The number of managers we have went through over the years should teach us one thing - that there is no such person. Roeder did brilliantly for half a season to get us 7th but it was still pretty obvious to most that he wasn't the right man long term. I respect Hughton greatly for what he's done so far, he's got a long way to go to convince me he's good enough though. Hughton comes across a lot better (not just personality wise, or his reluctance to refer to himself in the third person, but in terms of talking sense) than Roeder ever did, in my opinion. Yeah he's less of a prick but Roeder's achievements were more impressive imo (not to discredit Hughton). The difference between the start of that season and the end was insane. agreed, was nothing short of a miracle to get us a european spot. roeder's achievements then outweight hughton's now as he did it in a better league. which is why for me 'earning' a shot at managing us shouldn't come into it. either you think hughton is the right man to lead us for the next 3 or so seasons, minimum, or he is not. no point pissing around with a manager you are not sure about on the premise that he has 'earned' the role. if we go up, yeah, he probably does, in a perfect world, deserve a shot at the premiership, his rightful reward. but everyone knew roeder wasnt the man for the job and we made a mistake with him out of some misguided sense of loyalty. if hughton stays on next season d id hope it is because he shows he is a capable manager for the future, not because of anything he's done in the past. Some here seem to forget that Roeder had a far far better squad than Hughton has and ever will have. Roeder was very lucky in having many players available back from injury who weren't available for Souness (Souness was shit, though). Also Roeder had fairly "easy" teams to play against. And of course, like often said, almost every manager has his "honeymoon period" which Roeder certainly had. he was also managing in the premiership. in terms of relative quality to the league they were/are playing in, Hughton's got a far, far better squad than Roeder ever had. Given Carr Bramble Moore Elliott Solano >> our current side (even in terms of relative qualitiy to the leagues imo) Dyer Parker N'Zogbia Shearer Ameobi dont be daft. we have the best squad in the division. for roeder to have had the best squad in the division he wouldve had to been managing someone like man utd or chelsea. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ObiChrisKenobi Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 If I remember right, Ashley gave Hughton a 2 year contract. Surely if he had planned to replace him after promotion, it would only have been a contract until the end of the season? A 2 year contract implies that the plan is to achieve promotion, and if it seems to all be going wrong and Hughton isnt as good as hoped, itll be relatively cheap to sack him just before/during/after the January Transfer window His contract length didn't change, it was a change of job role that he signed (and probably a bit extra in wage too). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob W Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 "we have the best squad in the division" look at posts in July - October - not many people on here agreed with that.............. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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