Messi

[Guest firetotheworks]

I agree that Messi is quite clearly the best player in the world by far. Would like to see him in a match against Blackburn/Stoke/Bolton however, think he'd absolutely s*** himself.

 

He gets kicked all over the place in La Liga though, and it doesnt stop him. I dont see the difference. It's not like Messi is like Robinho. Ferdinand, and particularly Vidic can be nasty bastards, and he wasn't afraid of them. I think if he was the type to lack any kind of courage then he wouldn't be where he is now. He's always been smaller than everyone else.

 

 

Getting kicked by Spaniards is hardly the same, Spaniards get beaten up by their wives. Take those goals he scored in that 4-2 win a few weeks back, there's no way he scores those goals in the prem, he'd get bounced from shoulder to shoulder. He'd be fantastic to a degree, but nowhere near as effective as he is in La Liga.

 

He scored a hat trick against Arsenal, he walked all over Man United. Whether you think they're tough or not, they're still two of the best teams in the league, which is enough.

 

Am I missing something, when did Messi walked all over Man United???

 

In the EPL, Arsenal is as far as you can get in terms of being an English team. Arsenal's philosophy is to attack and play beautiful football which is exactly the type of teams that Messi loves playing against. Still don't think he will do as well as Rooney against defenders who go out to nail and bully strikers

 

Er, only every time he's played Man United, particularly the CL Final. Arsenal IS an English team from the PL, one of the better ones. Man United are too, Messi has come off better against both.

[Gallowgate Toon]

I agree that Messi is quite clearly the best player in the world by far. Would like to see him in a match against Blackburn/Stoke/Bolton however, think he'd absolutely s*** himself.

 

He gets kicked all over the place in La Liga though, and it doesnt stop him. I dont see the difference. It's not like Messi is like Robinho. Ferdinand, and particularly Vidic can be nasty bastards, and he wasn't afraid of them. I think if he was the type to lack any kind of courage then he wouldn't be where he is now. He's always been smaller than everyone else.

 

 

Getting kicked by Spaniards is hardly the same, Spaniards get beaten up by their wives. Take those goals he scored in that 4-2 win a few weeks back, there's no way he scores those goals in the prem, he'd get bounced from shoulder to shoulder. He'd be fantastic to a degree, but nowhere near as effective as he is in La Liga.

 

He scored a hat trick against Arsenal, he walked all over Man United. Whether you think they're tough or not, they're still two of the best teams in the league, which is enough.

 

Am I missing something, when did Messi walked all over Man United???

 

In the EPL, Arsenal is as far as you can get in terms of being an English team. Arsenal's philosophy is to attack and play beautiful football which is exactly the type of teams that Messi loves playing against. Still don't think he will do as well as Rooney against defenders who go out to nail and bully strikers

 

Er, only every time he's played Man United, particularly the CL Final. Arsenal IS an English team from the PL, one of the better ones. Man United are too, Messi has come off better against both.

 

Tbh i was pretty disappointed with him in the CL final, he was kept at bay for massive periods of the game.

 

I'm curious as to why you think Messi is so much better than everyone else, i admit he a fantastic player but if you compare his scoring records in the league this season with Rooney, both have played 30 matches and Messi has scored one more and he's not exactly amassed a mammoth total of assissts either (9), so how/why is he so much better?

[Guest firetotheworks]

I agree that Messi is quite clearly the best player in the world by far. Would like to see him in a match against Blackburn/Stoke/Bolton however, think he'd absolutely s*** himself.

 

He gets kicked all over the place in La Liga though, and it doesnt stop him. I dont see the difference. It's not like Messi is like Robinho. Ferdinand, and particularly Vidic can be nasty bastards, and he wasn't afraid of them. I think if he was the type to lack any kind of courage then he wouldn't be where he is now. He's always been smaller than everyone else.

 

 

Getting kicked by Spaniards is hardly the same, Spaniards get beaten up by their wives. Take those goals he scored in that 4-2 win a few weeks back, there's no way he scores those goals in the prem, he'd get bounced from shoulder to shoulder. He'd be fantastic to a degree, but nowhere near as effective as he is in La Liga.

 

He scored a hat trick against Arsenal, he walked all over Man United. Whether you think they're tough or not, they're still two of the best teams in the league, which is enough.

 

Am I missing something, when did Messi walked all over Man United???

 

In the EPL, Arsenal is as far as you can get in terms of being an English team. Arsenal's philosophy is to attack and play beautiful football which is exactly the type of teams that Messi loves playing against. Still don't think he will do as well as Rooney against defenders who go out to nail and bully strikers

 

Er, only every time he's played Man United, particularly the CL Final. Arsenal IS an English team from the PL, one of the better ones. Man United are too, Messi has come off better against both.

 

Tbh i was pretty disappointed with him in the CL final, he was kept at bay for massive periods of the game.

 

I'm curious as to why you think Messi is so much better than everyone else, i admit he a fantastic player but if you compare his scoring records in the league this season with Rooney, both have played 30 matches and Messi has scored one more and he's not exactly amassed a mammoth total of assissts either (9), so how/why is he so much better?

 

Because statistically he is ridiculous, last time I checked he was responsible (goals and assists) for 35 goals in 25 games. and just by looking you can see that he's amazing. Better than any player I've seen since the original Ronaldo.

[Gallowgate Toon]

I agree that Messi is quite clearly the best player in the world by far. Would like to see him in a match against Blackburn/Stoke/Bolton however, think he'd absolutely s*** himself.

 

He gets kicked all over the place in La Liga though, and it doesnt stop him. I dont see the difference. It's not like Messi is like Robinho. Ferdinand, and particularly Vidic can be nasty bastards, and he wasn't afraid of them. I think if he was the type to lack any kind of courage then he wouldn't be where he is now. He's always been smaller than everyone else.

 

 

Getting kicked by Spaniards is hardly the same, Spaniards get beaten up by their wives. Take those goals he scored in that 4-2 win a few weeks back, there's no way he scores those goals in the prem, he'd get bounced from shoulder to shoulder. He'd be fantastic to a degree, but nowhere near as effective as he is in La Liga.

 

He scored a hat trick against Arsenal, he walked all over Man United. Whether you think they're tough or not, they're still two of the best teams in the league, which is enough.

 

Am I missing something, when did Messi walked all over Man United???

 

In the EPL, Arsenal is as far as you can get in terms of being an English team. Arsenal's philosophy is to attack and play beautiful football which is exactly the type of teams that Messi loves playing against. Still don't think he will do as well as Rooney against defenders who go out to nail and bully strikers

 

Er, only every time he's played Man United, particularly the CL Final. Arsenal IS an English team from the PL, one of the better ones. Man United are too, Messi has come off better against both.

 

Tbh i was pretty disappointed with him in the CL final, he was kept at bay for massive periods of the game.

 

I'm curious as to why you think Messi is so much better than everyone else, i admit he a fantastic player but if you compare his scoring records in the league this season with Rooney, both have played 30 matches and Messi has scored one more and he's not exactly amassed a mammoth total of assissts either (9), so how/why is he so much better?

 

Because statistically he is ridiculous, last time I checked he was responsible (goals and assists) for 35 goals in 25 games. and just by looking you can see that he's amazing. Better than any player I've seen since the original Ronaldo.

Fair enough, can't argue with that!

[Taylor Swift]

Football is more than just about statistics, though, which is why Zidane, who never amassed goals and assists in his career, is considered as one of the greats.

 

I think Messi has a lot more of the Zidane/Cruyff style in him than he's given credit for. He's not just a finisher, not just a goalscorer. He changes the game with his movement and his dribbling, and that's where I feel he separates himself from Cristiano and Rooney because the latter two are also great goalscorers and contributors to their respective teams.

[alpal78]

I agree that Messi is quite clearly the best player in the world by far. Would like to see him in a match against Blackburn/Stoke/Bolton however, think he'd absolutely s*** himself.

 

He gets kicked all over the place in La Liga though, and it doesnt stop him. I dont see the difference. It's not like Messi is like Robinho. Ferdinand, and particularly Vidic can be nasty bastards, and he wasn't afraid of them. I think if he was the type to lack any kind of courage then he wouldn't be where he is now. He's always been smaller than everyone else.

 

 

Getting kicked by Spaniards is hardly the same, Spaniards get beaten up by their wives. Take those goals he scored in that 4-2 win a few weeks back, there's no way he scores those goals in the prem, he'd get bounced from shoulder to shoulder. He'd be fantastic to a degree, but nowhere near as effective as he is in La Liga.

 

He scored a hat trick against Arsenal, he walked all over Man United. Whether you think they're tough or not, they're still two of the best teams in the league, which is enough.

 

Am I missing something, when did Messi walked all over Man United???

 

In the EPL, Arsenal is as far as you can get in terms of being an English team. Arsenal's philosophy is to attack and play beautiful football which is exactly the type of teams that Messi loves playing against. Still don't think he will do as well as Rooney against defenders who go out to nail and bully strikers

 

Er, only every time he's played Man United, particularly the CL Final. Arsenal IS an English team from the PL, one of the better ones. Man United are too, Messi has come off better against both.

 

He walked all over Man Utd in last year's final?? Thanks for proving my earlier point of fans over-hyping Messi. Yes Arsenal is a good team and Messi did rape them, but my contention is that Messi will not perform as well as Rooney against defenders who go out to physically bully the strikers and in that respect, raping Arsenal impressive as that may be,  proves nothing.

[geordiedean]

Messi is on a different level to Rooney im afraid...the difference that sticks out to me is that messi could make an average team great very much like Maradona did with Napoli but im afraid Rooney just couldnt do that, and to whoever said Rooney is great with his head give yourself a shake man he has had a purple patch of headers this season and compared to previously hed scored jack shit with his head..hes no where near as good a headerer of the ball as Cahill or Shearer was

[Guest firetotheworks]

I agree that Messi is quite clearly the best player in the world by far. Would like to see him in a match against Blackburn/Stoke/Bolton however, think he'd absolutely s*** himself.

 

He gets kicked all over the place in La Liga though, and it doesnt stop him. I dont see the difference. It's not like Messi is like Robinho. Ferdinand, and particularly Vidic can be nasty bastards, and he wasn't afraid of them. I think if he was the type to lack any kind of courage then he wouldn't be where he is now. He's always been smaller than everyone else.

 

 

Getting kicked by Spaniards is hardly the same, Spaniards get beaten up by their wives. Take those goals he scored in that 4-2 win a few weeks back, there's no way he scores those goals in the prem, he'd get bounced from shoulder to shoulder. He'd be fantastic to a degree, but nowhere near as effective as he is in La Liga.

 

He scored a hat trick against Arsenal, he walked all over Man United. Whether you think they're tough or not, they're still two of the best teams in the league, which is enough.

 

Am I missing something, when did Messi walked all over Man United???

 

In the EPL, Arsenal is as far as you can get in terms of being an English team. Arsenal's philosophy is to attack and play beautiful football which is exactly the type of teams that Messi loves playing against. Still don't think he will do as well as Rooney against defenders who go out to nail and bully strikers

 

Er, only every time he's played Man United, particularly the CL Final. Arsenal IS an English team from the PL, one of the better ones. Man United are too, Messi has come off better against both.

 

He walked all over Man Utd in last year's final?? Thanks for proving my earlier point of fans over-hyping Messi. Yes Arsenal is a good team and Messi did rape them, but my contention is that Messi will not perform as well as Rooney against defenders who go out to physically bully the strikers and in that respect, raping Arsenal impressive as that may be,  proves nothing.

 

If you're saying that scoring a hat trick against one of the best teams in England, in the Champions League means nothing, whilst saying he couldn't cut it in the PL, then I dunno how you'd be convinced. Either way, choosing 'physical bullying' as something that Rooney can do better then aye, fair enough. But the ends justify the means. And whose ends are more frequent, and whose ends are undoubtedly more effective?

[Ronaldo]

Arsenal went there with a patched up defence, typical lack of genuine steel and needed to score. Not a good example.

 

Going back to my point, it's the games away to Wolves in which Rooney is undoubtebly more suited, despite Messi being streets ahead as a footballer.

[Guest firetotheworks]

Arsenal went there with a patched up defence, typical lack of genuine steel and needed to score. Not a good example.

 

Going back to my point, it's the games away to Wolves in which Rooney is undoubtebly more suited, despite Messi being streets ahead as a footballer.

 

Dont you think that Messi's ability just overrules any physical game plan though? There's been so many times that I've seen defences try everything possible and not been able to stop him. I think even 11 men behind the ball would be fucked because he'd win penalties/free kicks, or at the very least make shit loads of space for at least one other player in the team.

[Ronaldo]

No, I don't. He wouldn't win alf as many fouls as he does in Spain and he wouldn't find it nearly as easy to go past defenders.

[dcmk]

Getting kicked by Spaniards is hardly the same, Spaniards get beaten up by their wives. Take those goals he scored in that 4-2 win a few weeks back, there's no way he scores those goals in the prem, he'd get bounced from shoulder to shoulder. He'd be fantastic to a degree, but nowhere near as effective as he is in La Liga.

 

He scored a hat trick against Arsenal, he walked all over Man United. Whether you think they're tough or not, they're still two of the best teams in the league, which is enough.

 

  no, has always had a quiet game against them.

[Fugazi]

Getting kicked by Spaniards is hardly the same, Spaniards get beaten up by their wives. Take those goals he scored in that 4-2 win a few weeks back, there's no way he scores those goals in the prem, he'd get bounced from shoulder to shoulder. He'd be fantastic to a degree, but nowhere near as effective as he is in La Liga.

 

He scored a hat trick against Arsenal, he walked all over Man United. Whether you think they're tough or not, they're still two of the best teams in the league, which is enough.

 

  no, has always had a quiet game against them.

 

When Man Utd beat them 1-0 at Old Trafford he was going past players for fun.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

Rooney is the best all-round striker in world football in terms of attributes, and at the moment his form and pedigree allied with those attributes mark him down as one of the best players in the world overall, alongside Messi who is without doubt the best attacking forward.

 

As to who is the better player, in terms of skill Messi is a level above Rooney where as they are probably at the same level technically. It is very hard to split the two that's how good they both are. For everything Messi is better at than Rooney, the same can be said of Rooney over Messi.

 

In these debates, for me anyway, it boils down to personal taste and while I love watching Messi and regard him as a level above Rooney in terms of skill and arguably a more exciting player, I'd prefer the Man Utd man in my own personal dream-team due to his better (IMO) all-round game. He gives you more for my money.

 

Messi will always struggle against certain defenders or tactics due to his physicality and the way in which he wants to play the game. Rooney is a tactically more suited player to different styles of play and opposition play and therefore more usable. As someone above said, Barcelona is perfect for Messi. Rooney you suspect could play anywhere, with anyone, against anyone, at any level.

 

Imagine Barcelona with Rooney leading the line... or what Rooney would do in a Barcelona shirt. Or Madrid, or AC Milan, or Arsenal or even Newcastle.... AS IF!

 

If money where no object he'd be the first player I'd buy for Newcastle United.

[alpal78]

I agree that Messi is quite clearly the best player in the world by far. Would like to see him in a match against Blackburn/Stoke/Bolton however, think he'd absolutely s*** himself.

 

He gets kicked all over the place in La Liga though, and it doesnt stop him. I dont see the difference. It's not like Messi is like Robinho. Ferdinand, and particularly Vidic can be nasty bastards, and he wasn't afraid of them. I think if he was the type to lack any kind of courage then he wouldn't be where he is now. He's always been smaller than everyone else.

 

 

Getting kicked by Spaniards is hardly the same, Spaniards get beaten up by their wives. Take those goals he scored in that 4-2 win a few weeks back, there's no way he scores those goals in the prem, he'd get bounced from shoulder to shoulder. He'd be fantastic to a degree, but nowhere near as effective as he is in La Liga.

 

He scored a hat trick against Arsenal, he walked all over Man United. Whether you think they're tough or not, they're still two of the best teams in the league, which is enough.

 

Am I missing something, when did Messi walked all over Man United???

 

In the EPL, Arsenal is as far as you can get in terms of being an English team. Arsenal's philosophy is to attack and play beautiful football which is exactly the type of teams that Messi loves playing against. Still don't think he will do as well as Rooney against defenders who go out to nail and bully strikers

 

Er, only every time he's played Man United, particularly the CL Final. Arsenal IS an English team from the PL, one of the better ones. Man United are too, Messi has come off better against both.

 

He walked all over Man Utd in last year's final?? Thanks for proving my earlier point of fans over-hyping Messi. Yes Arsenal is a good team and Messi did rape them, but my contention is that Messi will not perform as well as Rooney against defenders who go out to physically bully the strikers and in that respect, raping Arsenal impressive as that may be,  proves nothing.

 

If you're saying that scoring a hat trick against one of the best teams in England, in the Champions League means nothing, whilst saying he couldn't cut it in the PL, then I dunno how you'd be convinced. Either way, choosing 'physical bullying' as something that Rooney can do better then aye, fair enough. But the ends justify the means. And whose ends are more frequent, and whose ends are undoubtedly more effective?

 

See that is the problem in this sort of debate, criticizing Messi or even trying to bring him down a notch from his Godly status is taken to mean that he is not good enough. I never said Messi "couldn't cut it in the PL"...in fact I listed several situations when he would be better than Rooney in the PL. Re the Arsenal game, I said that he did rape Arsenal and whilst that is laudable (great, fantatstic, excellent) but it proves nothing as far as the contention of him dealing with physical PL defenders.

[Taylor Swift]

I'll ask again: what about Thierry Henry?

 

He was the best player in the Premiership for a 5-6 years and he had a slight frame, was quick but quite weak, imo. He couldn't head the ball, couldn't muscle past defenders trying to bully him and didn't have the strength to challenge typical Premiership defenders, but if you ask me whether I'd prefer him at his peak or Drogba at his peak, the answer is obvious: Henry was the better player.

 

I don't see why Messi's game would suffer in the Premiership at all. I actually see him having an easier time because of how high teams usually defend. Do you not think Messi would just rape teams like Wolves and Hull who'll send their defenders up a third of the length of the pitch to defend him?

[Segun Oluwaniyi]

I really don't get your Theirry Henry point, man. Henry is 6'2. Messi is 5'6. He's a pretty powerful player as well. He doesn't throw players around, but he runs like a horse and it is difficult to stop him when he's running. You don't have to be built like an NFL player to be strong and durable.

[Guest n4e]

I really don't get your Theirry Henry point, man. Henry is 6'2. Messi is 5'6. He's a pretty powerful player as well. He doesn't throw players around, but he runs like a horse and it is difficult to stop him when he's running. You don't have to be built like an NFL player to be strong and durable.

 

Messi is fairly strong for his size aswell, plus he has a really low centre of gravity which combined with his agility and acceleration makes it difficult for to defenders. Players liek Pedro coped fine in England, people are making to much out of the fact he's small.

[tmonkey]

Rooney and Messi are on the same level imo - when it comes to passing the ball that is. I.e. they're both overhyped in this department.

 

I appreciate that both players are relatively young still and have time to mature in this area, but imo neither can weight a through ball as well or as consistently as a Zidane, Bergkamp, Totti, Beardo, etc. They're both obviously gifted players who can distribute the ball well and provide the odd good through ball, but the number of times they'll overhit a through ball when it's on has been pretty disappointing at times, in fact it's often stuck out like a sore thumb as an area of the game that they're lacking in.

 

Cristiano Ronaldo provides a bit of backing for this view imo, as he's also one of the best attacking players in the world and a great/legend in the making, but who has shown little ability or proficiency when it comes to threading fine balls to open up opposition defences. Clearly it's not something in his makeup, he's more about power and explosiveness than finesse. Hence, although Rooney and Messi may be better than him in this department, they're from the same school as him in that their real strengths lie in other areas of their respective games.

[STM]

Messi is a better player than Rooney, in a slightly worse league.

[Taylor Swift]

I really don't get your Theirry Henry point, man. Henry is 6'2. Messi is 5'6. He's a pretty powerful player as well. He doesn't throw players around, but he runs like a horse and it is difficult to stop him when he's running. You don't have to be built like an NFL player to be strong and durable.

 

Dude, have you seen Thierry Henry? He's weak as shit now and was always pretty weak if challenged. However, because of his pace, movement and agility, he was rarely challenged. That's why I think Messi will be a success; because his attributes make it very hard for defenders to mark and tackle him.

[tmonkey]

Bump.

 

Shut out by a strong team and completely nullified - similar to the first leg against Arsenal. And unlike the 2nd leg against Arsenal, he won't be up against a team without key players.

 

I know he's great 'n all and the best in the world right now, but he does seem to lack the all-round game that Zidane, Maradona, etc, had. If he can't dribble at a defence at will and therefore tear them apart, if he's being marked tightly and closed down fast by good calibre defenders, he's not going to do much else. I'm going to jump the gun and say that we'll see a repeat of this in the second leg, and in the latter stages of the World Cup too when Argentina inveitably get knocked out by someone organised at the back. Although given how devestating he can be it won't be a total suprise if he does the opposite.

 

Bumped again.

 

Also get the impression that he's a little bit predictable. He always wants to come in on the inside, onto his left foot, and doesn't seem to want to attack the other side.

[JH]

Bump.

 

Shut out by a strong team and completely nullified - similar to the first leg against Arsenal. And unlike the 2nd leg against Arsenal, he won't be up against a team without key players.

 

I know he's great 'n all and the best in the world right now, but he does seem to lack the all-round game that Zidane, Maradona, etc, had. If he can't dribble at a defence at will and therefore tear them apart, if he's being marked tightly and closed down fast by good calibre defenders, he's not going to do much else. I'm going to jump the gun and say that we'll see a repeat of this in the second leg, and in the latter stages of the World Cup too when Argentina inveitably get knocked out by someone organised at the back. Although given how devestating he can be it won't be a total suprise if he does the opposite.

 

Bumped again.

 

Also get the impression that he's a little bit predictable. He always wants to come in on the inside, onto his left foot, and doesn't seem to want to attack the other side.

 

It's quite hard, even for the world's best, when you're being marked and closed down by three players every time you touch the ball. He's not fucking superman.

[Mr. Snrub]

Everytime he doesn't have a great game, you know somewhere out there tmonkey is ferociously turning on his PC ready to inform people as soon as possible.

 

Your posts are a lot more predictable than Messi's football.

[tmonkey]

It's quite hard, even for the world's best, when you're being marked and closed down by three players every time you touch the ball. He's not f***ing superman.

 

...

 

"I know he's great 'n all and the best in the world right now, but he does seem to lack the all-round game that Zidane, Maradona, etc, had. If he can't dribble at a defence at will and therefore tear them apart, if he's being marked tightly and closed down fast by good calibre defenders, he's not going to do much else."

 

What exactly are you disputing, given the context of this thread?