Messi

[Thespence]

I think Messi will get better after watching & training with Jonas.

[Frazzle]

"I know he's great 'n all and the best in the world right now, but he does seem to lack the all-round game that Zidane, Maradona, etc, had."

 

Zidane's 'all round game' didn't really help him in all of the other Champions League campaigns he was involved in.  Messi has already won it more times than Zidane (and Maradona), even with his one-dimensional playing style...

[ToonMonty]

I really don't get your Theirry Henry point, man. Henry is 6'2. Messi is 5'6. He's a pretty powerful player as well. He doesn't throw players around, but he runs like a horse and it is difficult to stop him when he's running. You don't have to be built like an NFL player to be strong and durable.

 

Dude, have you seen Thierry Henry? He's weak as s*** now and was always pretty weak if challenged. However, because of his pace, movement and agility, he was rarely challenged. That's why I think Messi will be a success; because his attributes make it very hard for defenders to mark and tackle him.

 

Dude did you see Henry at his peek? I did and he was lightening but much taller and braoder in person than he looked on the TV. I go to the gym on a regular basis and would love a physique like Henry's

 

Weak as fuck my arse!

[tmonkey]

Everytime he doesn't have a great game, you know somewhere out there tmonkey is ferociously turning on his PC ready to inform people as soon as possible.

 

Your posts are a lot more predictable than Messi's football.

 

And conversely, everytime he has a great game ... ... It work both ways.

 

This is a thread about Messi right now being the best player ever based on some sensational performances against decent teams and a very good season overall. A fair number on here wanted to wait to see how he'd perform against stronger sides in the big games in the high stake competitions, since that's the level where those players he's being compared to/proclaimed to be better than have already performed during their respective peaks. Given that Messi has again disappointed in a game of this magnitude and has been easily contained, and given that some of us specifically said we'd wait to see his performances against better teams in the latter stages of this competition (as well as the World Cup), I can't see how it's anything but reasonable within the context of this thread to point out using actual performances why an opinion was voiced in the first place. I apologise if this comes across as "rubbing it in your face", but then there's no other way of voicing an opinion and then backing it up with real examples/performances without some people getting their knickers in a twist about it.

 

I'm sure if he flops in the World Cup, this thread will be bumped, and rightfully so. And similarly, if he does a Maradona and drags Argentina to WC glory, then there'll also be more wankathon threads, or this will be bumped. Since noone is being quoted or ridiculed for their opinions, it's all nothing but reasonable.

[ToonMonty]

"I know he's great 'n all and the best in the world right now, but he does seem to lack the all-round game that Zidane, Maradona, etc, had."

 

Zidane's 'all round game' didn't really help him in all of the other Champions League campaigns he was involved in.  Messi has already won it more times than Zidane (and Maradona), even with his one-dimensional playing style...

 

Are you sure about that? Zidane did win the world cup and the champions league

[Fugazi]

"I know he's great 'n all and the best in the world right now, but he does seem to lack the all-round game that Zidane, Maradona, etc, had."

 

Zidane's 'all round game' didn't really help him in all of the other Champions League campaigns he was involved in.  Messi has already won it more times than Zidane (and Maradona), even with his one-dimensional playing style...

 

Are you sure about that? Zidane did win the world cup and the champions league

 

Messi has won the Champions League twice, was injured for final against Arsenal though.

[Frazzle]

"I know he's great 'n all and the best in the world right now, but he does seem to lack the all-round game that Zidane, Maradona, etc, had."

 

Zidane's 'all round game' didn't really help him in all of the other Champions League campaigns he was involved in.  Messi has already won it more times than Zidane (and Maradona), even with his one-dimensional playing style...

 

Are you sure about that? Zidane did win the world cup and the champions league

 

Am I sure about what?  My point is that no matter how good you are you won't win every game/cup/league you're involved.  The criticisms of Messi now can be made of Zidane, Maradona etc. like I've said.  Obviously the more you do win the easier it is to make the argument that you're one of the best.

[tmonkey]

"I know he's great 'n all and the best in the world right now, but he does seem to lack the all-round game that Zidane, Maradona, etc, had."

 

Zidane's 'all round game' didn't really help him in all of the other Champions League campaigns he was involved in.  Messi has already won it more times than Zidane (and Maradona), even with his one-dimensional playing style...

 

But I'm not expecting Messi to win the Champions League single handedly, or score 3 goals every game, nor am I judging Zidane's career based on winners medals. It's about performances during their respective peaks.

 

Zidane went through a lengthy period where he was consistently good on a regular basis, including many big games in the big competitions. That's not to say that he was great every single game, or that he never had his off days where he was anonymous - just that in a good number of big games against top sides, for both club and country, he was often exceptionally good, so much so that the opposition teams couldn't shut him out. His all round game meant that he could pull the strings, create space, create openings, create chances, change direction, etc, none of which relied on him dribbling past players or scoring goals (which he could also do) - which meant he was difficult to double up on, etc.

 

Messi clearly is the best in the world, I'm not disputing that, and he's still young so could improve (although given his physique and his game being based alot around pace, it's not unreasonable to say this might possibly be his peak). But if he's being shut out and made to play a very basic game whereby he's pretty quiet, surely therefore it's unwarranted to call him the best player ever? Which is entirely what this thread is about.

[TRon]

Messi wasn't shut out tonight, the rest of the team was.

[Disco]

Even though Messi didn't do a lot yesterday if Bojan didn't have a 50p head, Messi would've assisted a Barca win.

[Guest neesy111]

Even though Messi didn't do a lot yesterday if Bojan didn't have a 50p head, Messi would've assisted a Barca win.

 

This, also messi was incredibly unlucky not to score. the save by cesar 1st half is possibly the save of the season for me

[Skirge]

Poor mans Vuckic

[Guest fraser]

Messi is a great player but I can't imagine Rooney being marginalised in the way that he was in the past two games v Inter. Unleashed Messi is the better player but Rooney can get himself into a game through his physicality in a way that Messi can't; you'd pay good money to watch either though.

[David28]

Messi is a great player but I can't imagine Rooney being marginalised in the way that he was in the past two games v Inter. Unleashed Messi is the better player but Rooney can get himself into a game through his physicality in a way that Messi can't; you'd pay good money to watch either though.

 

This is why I also tend to say that for a team which has problems scoring a goal against a good side Rooney is the better player.

[Ronaldo]

If you want someone to build a team around, it's Rooney. But that doesn't make him a better player.

[Taylor Swift]

It's ridiculous how people are quick to judge Messi after this CL tie. Yes, let's ignore all the other matches that he's played this season.

 

I could easily point out how marginalised Rooney was at Stamford Bridge earlier on in the season, or how he was marginalised in the match against City, or at Anfield, or at home to Villa etc. etc. etc.

 

A match doesn't make a season. A season of performances makes a season. And a few seasons of great performances is evidence of class and quality, which is what Messi is.

[johnnypd]

It's ridiculous how people are quick to judge Messi after this CL tie. Yes, let's ignore all the other matches that he's played this season.

 

I could easily point out how marginalised Rooney was at Stamford Bridge earlier on in the season, or how he was marginalised in the match against City, or at Anfield, or at home to Villa etc. etc. etc.

 

A match doesn't make a season. A season of performances makes a season. And a few seasons of great performances is evidence of class and quality, which is what Messi is.

 

except no one's said rooney is the best player of all time. if anything the extra scrutiny shows how highly people think of Messi. as it stands, messi is a great attacker, but you have to say he doesn't get involved in the game as much as, say, Xavi, though they obviously have different roles. plenty of people feel that rooney also gets more involved in general play, is more pivotal to the way his side plays, though that's not the same as saying rooney is the better player.

[Gallowgate Toon]

It's ridiculous how people are quick to judge Messi after this CL tie. Yes, let's ignore all the other matches that he's played this season.

 

I could easily point out how marginalised Rooney was at Stamford Bridge earlier on in the season, or how he was marginalised in the match against City, or at Anfield, or at home to Villa etc. etc. etc.

 

A match doesn't make a season. A season of performances makes a season. And a few seasons of great performances is evidence of class and quality, which is what Messi is.

But the best players are defined by doing great things against great teams, scoring bagfuls in La Liga consistenly (although it's been a poor competition this season) is obviously the mark of a very good player but for me when he has to step up from that level aginst the big teams, i can't help but be disappointed and i'm not just talking about aginst Inter this season either.

 

Imo he can be the game's greatest but he's not ready to have that title yet, he's got another 10 years to prove it though.

[Guest firetotheworks]

Rooney has bad days too yknow. More than Messi in fact, for those that care to think back further than just this season.

[Segun Oluwaniyi]

A 22-year old has an average performance (he still was creative and caused a great save from Julio Cesar) against an amazing defensive pefromace and people want to condemn him. Amazing. The result speaks more to Pep's stubbornnes and Inter's stotuness than anything else

[Guest Heneage]

He needs space to operate, and run at defenders, defend deep and in numbers and he becomes less of an influence on a game.

[GG]

It's ridiculous how people are quick to judge Messi after this CL tie. Yes, let's ignore all the other matches that he's played this season.

 

I could easily point out how marginalised Rooney was at Stamford Bridge earlier on in the season, or how he was marginalised in the match against City, or at Anfield, or at home to Villa etc. etc. etc.

 

A match doesn't make a season. A season of performances makes a season. And a few seasons of great performances is evidence of class and quality, which is what Messi is.

But the best players are defined by doing great things against great teams, scoring bagfuls in La Liga consistenly (although it's been a poor competition this season) is obviously the mark of a very good player but for me when he has to step up from that level aginst the big teams, i can't help but be disappointed and i'm not just talking about aginst Inter this season either.

 

Imo he can be the game's greatest but he's not ready to have that title yet, he's got another 10 years to prove it though.

 

He was awful against Arsenal.

[Gallowgate Toon]

It's ridiculous how people are quick to judge Messi after this CL tie. Yes, let's ignore all the other matches that he's played this season.

 

I could easily point out how marginalised Rooney was at Stamford Bridge earlier on in the season, or how he was marginalised in the match against City, or at Anfield, or at home to Villa etc. etc. etc.

 

A match doesn't make a season. A season of performances makes a season. And a few seasons of great performances is evidence of class and quality, which is what Messi is.

But the best players are defined by doing great things against great teams, scoring bagfuls in La Liga consistenly (although it's been a poor competition this season) is obviously the mark of a very good player but for me when he has to step up from that level aginst the big teams, i can't help but be disappointed and i'm not just talking about aginst Inter this season either.

 

Imo he can be the game's greatest but he's not ready to have that title yet, he's got another 10 years to prove it though.

 

He was awful against Arsenal.

And in what way are Arsenal a great team may i ask? In fact the team they sent out that match were hardly brilliant with a patched up defence etc.

[Taylor Swift]

It's ridiculous how people are quick to judge Messi after this CL tie. Yes, let's ignore all the other matches that he's played this season.

 

I could easily point out how marginalised Rooney was at Stamford Bridge earlier on in the season, or how he was marginalised in the match against City, or at Anfield, or at home to Villa etc. etc. etc.

 

A match doesn't make a season. A season of performances makes a season. And a few seasons of great performances is evidence of class and quality, which is what Messi is.

 

except no one's said rooney is the best player of all time. if anything the extra scrutiny shows how highly people think of Messi. as it stands, messi is a great attacker, but you have to say he doesn't get involved in the game as much as, say, Xavi, though they obviously have different roles. plenty of people feel that rooney also gets more involved in general play, is more pivotal to the way his side plays, though that's not the same as saying rooney is the better player.

 

I agree, jonny. I'm not saying Messi is the greatest of all time. Far from it, actually. But I'm saying that he's had two phenomenal seasons in a row and he's the best player in the world. And if, and this is a massive if, he can keep this up, then there's no doubt that he should be considered as one of the greatest players of all time because of how much more physical and demanding today's game is.

 

Statistically speaking, it was easier to dominate before football became the world sport. Maradona and Pele played when African and Asian countries were still developing. They had the advantage of being truly great amongst only a few players, which is why they really stood out. Messi is a true great but there are so, so many other players out there that makes it infinitely harder for him to dominate in the way that Maradona and Pele did. Football has developed; not only in the physical sense, but I'm talking about the spread of tactical knowledge as well. Before, teams depended on scouts whereas today you have video analysis which means the ability to truly single out a player's weaknesses and strengths and plan for it when you play matches. This is different to Pele's time.

 

I'm not using this as a justification for arguing that Messi's the greatest of all time. I'm saying that to dominate in football today is harder than it was to dominate football before. It's all about statistics and likelihoods. You may not agree with my opinion of how good Messi is but the logic of statistics that forms my argument is undeniable, so it just depends on whether you believe Messi is actually that good, and imo, he is, which is why he'll be considered as one of the greats when he retires.

[mrmojorisin75]

Messi: "On the plane on the way to the World Cup Carlitos made me listen to Oasis's first two albums. I have to say I wasn't expecting much but it is some of the best material I have ever heard. They are absolutely amazing. Their songs are incredible. I have been listening to their stuff in my hotel room, on the way to matches and in the dressing room. I've been watching their live performances on YouTube and they look like they'd be amazing to see in concert. We have agreed that if we win the World Cup, we want to fly them over to Argentina for our celebration party. We just need them to name their price"

 

great player, fuckin shit taste in music