Neil Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 The shirts incident yesterday is one of the most pathetic, embarrassing incidents I can remember in football. Cringeworthy doesn't do it justice. All led by the commander-in-chief of the circus of self-delusion, Mr Dalglish, who is fast ruining whatever respect people had for him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wacko Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 I sit next to a Uraguayan at work who's astonished it's an issue in the slightest, the culture and usage of the terminology there is completely different. Had a pretty interesting chat with him but he's a Suarez fanboy and blatantly loves a cheeky bit of racism so it was a bit one sided. There's a Tim Vickery piece on the BBC sport that starts off by giving an extremely good insight into the culture of the words, I've linked below. That's the other side of the coin: beyond what the words Suarez used may mean, there's the question of what's racist, which is *very* dependent on culture. What would be perceived in hyper-sensitive Britain as racist would not be in other cultures less sensitive to racism. And then there's the differing sensitivity to perceived racism against different races: in the UK, people are very sensitive to racism against blacks but not against, say, Albanians because there are a lot of blacks but few Albanians. A few weeks ago, an extremely liberal, pro-immigrant German lass who spends all her time helping kids from immigrant families, who would never dream of saying anything anti-Turkish, told me that "laying an Obama in the White House" is slang for having a shit (there are very few black people in Germany, and most racism is directed against Turks, Arabs and East Europeans). ------------------- With regards to the FA's ruling: it's a complete cop-out. They've found him guilty of indecent/abusive behaviour and punished him for racism. An 8 match ban is ridiculous for what they've found him guilty of. FFS, Rooney got a 2-game ban for running up to the TV camera and shouting "fuck off" into it. They should have either given him a punishment typical of the violation they found him guilty of or had the balls to label him a racist along with clearly you've-been-found-guilty-of-racism ban they handed him. Whilst I agree with the first half of your post that's not necessarily the point. It may well be inoffensive in his culture but there are ramifications beyond that - he's been in Europe for some time by now and as such must realise that it's extremely offensive to refer to people in such a manner. He's not a complete idiot, surely he knew what he was doing and as such theoretically it could still be construed as racist? I'm just theorising mind, don't know the ins and outs of the case. Plus it's funny as fuck he's been banned for 8 games. Or maybe not. It seems bizarre that this could have been the first time he'd said such things in four years. Also, seeing as there were no other witnesses, why did Suarez freely admit he'd said "negrito"? If he had believed it was racist, surely he'd have just denied it. More likely, he wasn't aware of how hypersensitive the UK is to perceived racism. Hmmmm. Perhaps. It seems like a cheap (attempted) get out of jail card, playing stupid, to be honest. My guess is that there was no racist intent used but that he was trying to wind Evra up as much as he possibly could and pushed it a bit too far (possibly down to a lack of understanding around the connotations of that word in England and France) and now it's come back to bite him on the arse. That's pretty much how I see it. If he'd thought what he had said was racist, he'd surely have denied saying it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Paul McGrath on Twitter Paulmcgrath5: As x footballer havin experienced racist comments throughout my career I was saddened to see Liverpool players wear those tshirts last nite Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
STM Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 When you think about it though, it really is offensive in itself. Imagine Evra watching all the Liverpool players supporting racism against him. I have no love for Evra but he is a victim of racism. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dokko Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Can't wait till the FA charge the club as a whole. Shame it will just be fines. Disgusting, deluded, arrogant behaviour, all the qualities of Liverpool FC so not really unexpected. Horrible vile club, everyone connected to it deserves to burn in hell. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 When you think about it though, it really is offensive in itself. Imagine Evra watching all the Liverpool players supporting racism against him. I have no love for Evra but he is a victim of racism. It was one of those throwaway ideas you jokingly moot to your friends down the pub: "Haha, wouldn't it be funny if they all came out in shirts with Suarez on them?" And to see they actually did, gobsmacked they thought it would be a good idea. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wacko Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 When you think about it though, it really is offensive in itself. Imagine Evra watching all the Liverpool players supporting racism against him. I have no love for Evra but he is a victim of racism. He said himself that he doesn't think Suarez is a racist, so I'm not so sure he'd object to other people expressing the same opinion. I can imagine he might object to the manner of it … Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
STM Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 I sit next to a Uraguayan at work who's astonished it's an issue in the slightest, the culture and usage of the terminology there is completely different. Had a pretty interesting chat with him but he's a Suarez fanboy and blatantly loves a cheeky bit of racism so it was a bit one sided. There's a Tim Vickery piece on the BBC sport that starts off by giving an extremely good insight into the culture of the words, I've linked below. That's the other side of the coin: beyond what the words Suarez used may mean, there's the question of what's racist, which is *very* dependent on culture. What would be perceived in hyper-sensitive Britain as racist would not be in other cultures less sensitive to racism. And then there's the differing sensitivity to perceived racism against different races: in the UK, people are very sensitive to racism against blacks but not against, say, Albanians because there are a lot of blacks but few Albanians. A few weeks ago, an extremely liberal, pro-immigrant German lass who spends all her time helping kids from immigrant families, who would never dream of saying anything anti-Turkish, told me that "laying an Obama in the White House" is slang for having a shit (there are very few black people in Germany, and most racism is directed against Turks, Arabs and East Europeans). ------------------- With regards to the FA's ruling: it's a complete cop-out. They've found him guilty of indecent/abusive behaviour and punished him for racism. An 8 match ban is ridiculous for what they've found him guilty of. FFS, Rooney got a 2-game ban for running up to the TV camera and shouting "fuck off" into it. They should have either given him a punishment typical of the violation they found him guilty of or had the balls to label him a racist along with clearly you've-been-found-guilty-of-racism ban they handed him. Whilst I agree with the first half of your post that's not necessarily the point. It may well be inoffensive in his culture but there are ramifications beyond that - he's been in Europe for some time by now and as such must realise that it's extremely offensive to refer to people in such a manner. He's not a complete idiot, surely he knew what he was doing and as such theoretically it could still be construed as racist? I'm just theorising mind, don't know the ins and outs of the case. Plus it's funny as fuck he's been banned for 8 games. Or maybe not. It seems bizarre that this could have been the first time he'd said such things in four years. Also, seeing as there were no other witnesses, why did Suarez freely admit he'd said "negrito"? If he had believed it was racist, surely he'd have just denied it. More likely, he wasn't aware of how hypersensitive the UK is to perceived racism. Hmmmm. Perhaps. It seems like a cheap (attempted) get out of jail card, playing stupid, to be honest. My guess is that there was no racist intent used but that he was trying to wind Evra up as much as he possibly could and pushed it a bit too far (possibly down to a lack of understanding around the connotations of that word in England and France) and now it's come back to bite him on the arse. That's pretty much how I see it. If he'd thought what he had said was racist, he'd surely have denied saying it. Yes but it doesn't matter what he thought, it's what he said. He's not being charged for being a racist, he's being charged for using racist language. Saying rasist comments, promotes racism, that's why it needs stamped out. It's alot easier stopping people for saying racist comments, than stopping them thinking racist things. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
STM Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 When you think about it though, it really is offensive in itself. Imagine Evra watching all the Liverpool players supporting racism against him. I have no love for Evra but he is a victim of racism. He said himself that he doesn't think Suarez is a racist, so I'm not so sure he'd object to other people expressing the same opinion. I can imagine he might object to the manner of it … They are supporting someone who said a racist comment, are you supporting that too? I'll repeat again, it's not about Suarez being a racist, it's about supporting his racist comments. Only Suarez knows whether he's a racist or not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Exactly, football can't know and shouldn't concern itself with whether someone "is a racist". That's society's problem. All football can do is try to eradicate racial abuse from the game. The same in society to a certain extent, if we make racist language and abuse unacceptable then the thought processes themselves will eventually weaken and disappear (over many, many years obviously). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
STM Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Exactly, football can't know and shouldn't concern itself with whether someone "is a racist". That's societies problem. All football can do is try to eradicate racial abuse from the game. The same in society to a certain extent, if we make racist language and abuse unacceptable then the thought processes themselves will eventually weaken and disappear (over many, many years obviously). Absolutely. Education is the only way to eradicate racism. However, all forms of society have a duty to punish anyone promoting rasicm by using racist comments. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Can't believe they're trying to make Suarez out as the victim in this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wormy Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Can't believe they're trying to make Suarez out as the victim in this. Well it's not going to be a non-Liverpool figure that's the victim, ever, is it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Liverpool FC think they are bigger than football, they have handled this whole scenario with utter contempt and the FA could easily punish them over the statement they made and also the shirts last night. I'd rather they just admitted they don't want their best player suspended. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Haris Vuckic Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 I would give Parky another goal just for those tshirts! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 I would give Parky another goal just for those tshirts! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Roger Kint Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Anyone see the banner the fans had last night? 'Patrice Evra.......Mutant Black Guy' Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LesPaul Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Anyone see the banner the fans had last night? 'Patrice Evra.......Mutant Black Guy' Surely that didn't actually happen? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wormy Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Anyone see the banner the fans had last night? 'Patrice Evra.......Mutant Black Guy' Surely that didn't actually happen? Surely not Maybe it was 'militant' black guy, still not tasteful but just a joke based on that or something? Clutching at straws here, wouldn't be surprised in the least if it was mutant with these twats. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 606 so maybe not fully reliable but: I can't believe the banner the Liverpool fans unfurled at their draw at Wigan, it read "Patrice Evra mutant black guy" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Calling someone a black guy is a poor attempt at racism TBF... maybe that's why they threw the mutant in there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 @Paulmcgrath5: As x footballer havin experienced racist comments throughout my career I was saddened to see Liverpool players wear those tshirts last nite Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
QBG Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 The juvenile way in which they have reacted to this whole affair is sadly typical of the club and the city. They have continually perpetuated this kind of self-victimisation for the last 20-30 years, but doing so in these kind of circumstances and in such an overt and crass manner is utterly abhorrent. Dalglish really is perfect for them, he plays the 'poor me' role brilliantly, the difference this time is that thankfully they don't have the media on their side. I sincerely hope that they appeal and that the FA extends the ban for despicable way in which they have dealt with the incident. Worth pointing out that Manchester United, Ferguson and Evra have stayed silent and dignified throughout. Even Chelsea's statement yesterday about JT was far more appropriate and considered. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanSkÃrare Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Ollie Bernard - legend. http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11669/7391485/Bernard-condemns-Suarez-stance Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Roger Kint Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Anyone see the banner the fans had last night? 'Patrice Evra.......Mutant Black Guy' Surely that didn't actually happen? Surely not Maybe it was 'militant' black guy, still not tasteful but just a joke based on that or something? Clutching at straws here, wouldn't be surprised in the least if it was mutant with these twats. There is a photo of it in todays Star Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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