The Liverpool Thread

[ponsaelius]

Liverpool were still dull as hell last season under Dalglish. The one player that gave them a spark and made the whole team play well was Suarez. Put him in Hodgson's team at the start of the season instead of Torres and the records would be more or less the same.

[Mr. Snrub]

They started playing a much better brand of football almost immediately after Dalglish came in imo.

 

The football under Hodgson was almost Allardyce esque, flat out long ball tactics.

[Guest PhilB]

They started playing a much better brand of football almost immediately after Dalglish came in imo.

 

The football under Hodgson was almost Allardyce esque, flat out long ball tactics.

 

This.

[Tooj]

Liked what Xavi said about him a while back.

 

...

[Mr. Snrub]

“If I go to Liverpool’s ground and someone puts the ball into the area and (Jamie) Carragher hammers it out of play then the fans applaud. In the Nou Camp you would never be applauded for that.

 

It’s a different culture that values different things. Here if they see you are afraid when you are in possession then you get whistled. It’s the world in reverse."

[Guest kingdawson]

What I hate about Carragher is, despite the fact he's a complete liability and he knows it, should anyone else ever dare to make a mistake he's straight over in their face, shouting the odds and giving it the big 'un.  Having a word's one thing, but he always looks like he's a second away from decking them.

 

The guy behaves like a schoolyard bully on and off the pitch.  An utterly detestable prick.

 

Off the pitch?  Carragher is a family man through and through and can often be seen on sunny afternoons taking his kids for a bike ride along the river front.  He's as ordinary as anyone and you don't hear of him in the clubs or causing trouble anywhere. 

 

Because he takes his own kids out once in a while it means he's not a t***? even the biggest twats in the world take their kids out ffs.

 

He's a t*** because..

 

A) He acts like he's some sort of gangster calling of the boys on a potential assault on a player that injured him. He then sends a text to the person who was with the player bragging about how lucky he was.

 

B) He boasts about purposely injuring a team mate in training.

 

C) He openly blames immigrants for unemployment in Liverpool (not putting any responsiblity/blame on the lazy arse Liverpudlians who choose to stay at home and watch Jeremy Kyle).

 

D) He calls Talksport radio live to offer the host to come to the training ground and "say it to his face"...also stating how much better he is to Ledley King who was chosen ahead of him.

 

 

That's the actions of a t***.

[Tooj]

“If I go to Liverpool’s ground and someone puts the ball into the area and (Jamie) Carragher hammers it out of play then the fans applaud. In the Nou Camp you would never be applauded for that.

 

It’s a different culture that values different things. Here if they see you are afraid when you are in possession then you get whistled. It’s the world in reverse."

 

Tbf, that could be said about the majority of English teams.

[leffe186]

They started playing a much better brand of football almost immediately after Dalglish came in imo.

 

The football under Hodgson was almost Allardyce esque, flat out long ball tactics.

 

This.

 

I would back up what PhilG says about Dalglish's media approach too. The ref thing was silly, but his interview after the Spurs game was classy and recognized as such by the Spurs fans. The fact that Liverpool players looked like they started trying when he came in might have a little to do with their own egos, but could also be interpreted as poor tactics and communication from Hodgson.

 

One accusation levelled at 'arry is that he is a poor tactician, just sending the players out to express themselves. There may be an element of truth in that, but players like Bale and VDV have gone on record as saying they appreciate that side of his management. If you're happy with your management at that level, then that will surely show in your demeanour and performance.

 

Finally, to take TT's suggestion that Dalglish is an outdated manager who's maybe a little too keen on British players - well that is rather backed up by the board bringing in Comolli. That could be seen as an attempt to balance it out.

[Guest kingdawson]

Liverpool need to play either

 

A) 4-4-2

 

-kuyt------------lucas----------------Gerrard------------------Downing

 

---------------------Bellamy------------Suarez-------------------------

 

 

 

B) 4-5-1

 

-----------------------Lucas---------Hendersen/Spearing--------------------

 

-------------------------------Gerrard----------------------------------------

 

----Kuyt------------------------------------------------------------Bellamy--

 

--------------------------------Suarez----------------------------------------

 

 

 

If they stii had Meireless it would 100000000000% be option B with Meireless taking Hendeerson/Spearing place. Being that he's gone it might well have to be Option A by default (being that i'm not 100% sold on Henderson or Spearing). Whichever way you look at it, Adam is no way good enough to start and Downing has been good so far but with Carrol not in the team is there a point?

 

Bellamy and Kuyt are musts to start but hopefully Daglish sticks with the team he's currently picking in the league now.

[Tooj]

It's ridiculous that he let Aqualini go.

[Guest kingdawson]

It's ridiculous that he let Aqualini go.

 

Aquilani would be another player that would be perfect for them right about now but Daglish gets rid of Aquilani and Meireless to bring in Adam and Henderson? eh?

[Cronky]

I love the way he handles the press, gives most of them the respect they deserve, thank fuck.  He's been in the game far too long to be thin skinned and he's right, he's Liverpools manager not Brightons.  Give me that any day rather than Hodgson and his self praise, and defeatist attitude.

 

 

It's more accurate to say that, as a manager at least, he's been in and out of the game. At our club, the pressure did get to him and the experience seemed to blunt his appetite for management. Even at Blackburn, he ended up being kicked upstairs after questions were raised about his commitment, and then of course he left altogether. Celtic didn't seem to work at all. In his first spell at Liverpool, he resigned due to stress, albeit more understandably in that instance, having lived through two major tragedies.

 

Despite the early successes, it's a patchy, stop-start record. You can understand why there are question marks about his ability to handle the bad times.

 

His comments about refs felt a bit weird. He complained that they were biased against Liverpool, and then he seemed to back-track by saying he would talk to the owners about the problem and wouldn't do anything to harm the club's reputation. Well, you either withdraw the comment or you stick to your guns. It all felt a bit weak.

 

In the Brighton interview, he actually looked a bit stressed and tired, I thought. Defending your team is fine, but he actually seemed a bit rattled by the question. I saw another interview a short while back where he was asked when Steven Gerrard (I think it was) was likely to be back. It was a reasonable question, but his response was 'I don't know, I'm not psychic'. A bit rude.

 

I think he's got a lot of the qualities of a good manager, but also has some vulnerable areas. First time round at Liverpool, he inherited the best team in the country and at Blackburn he was able to outspend every other club. The characteristic of a really top class manager is an ability to over-achieve on the resources available, and I don't think we've seen that yet with Dalglish.

[Dan Gleebals]

I love the way he handles the press, gives most of them the respect they deserve, thank fuck.  He's been in the game far too long to be thin skinned and he's right, he's Liverpools manager not Brightons.  Give me that any day rather than Hodgson and his self praise, and defeatist attitude.

 

 

It's more accurate to say that, as a manager at least, he's been in and out of the game. At our club, the pressure did get to him and the experience seemed to blunt his appetite for management. Even at Blackburn, he ended up being kicked upstairs after questions were raised about his commitment, and then of course he left altogether. Celtic didn't seem to work at all. In his first spell at Liverpool, he resigned due to stress, albeit more understandably in that instance, having lived through two major tragedies.

 

Despite the early successes, it's a patchy, stop-start record. You can understand why there are question marks about his ability to handle the bad times.

 

His comments about refs felt a bit weird. He complained that they were biased against Liverpool, and then he seemed to back-track by saying he would talk to the owners about the problem and wouldn't do anything to harm the club's reputation. Well, you either withdraw the comment or you stick to your guns. It all felt a bit weak.

 

In the Brighton interview, he actually looked a bit stressed and tired, I thought. Defending your team is fine, but he actually seemed a bit rattled by the question. I saw another interview a short while back where he was asked when Steven Gerrard (I think it was) was likely to be back. It was a reasonable question, but his response was 'I don't know, I'm not psychic'. A bit rude.

 

I think he's got a lot of the qualities of a good manager, but also has some vulnerable areas. First time round at Liverpool, he inherited the best team in the country and at Blackburn he was able to outspend every other club. The characteristic of a really top class manager is an ability to over-achieve on the resources available, and I don't think we've seen that yet with Dalglish.

 

 

Does that make Pardew top class?  You could argue he has over-achieved in not only total lack of backing and spending but also amidst hard times.  Dogface would never have stayed under these conditions.

 

Pardew has certianly worked with what he's got (and done without what he has lost).  Not saying he is top class, but compared to the KD situation, he is miles ahead IMHO.

[Dave]

“If I go to Liverpool’s ground and someone puts the ball into the area and (Jamie) Carragher hammers it out of play then the fans applaud. In the Nou Camp you would never be applauded for that.

 

It’s a different culture that values different things. Here if they see you are afraid when you are in possession then you get whistled. It’s the world in reverse."

 

Tbf, that could be said about the majority of English teams.

 

Depends entirely on the context tbh. No defender is applauded for lashing it out under little or no pressure. Some players take the safety first option, some have the confidence and ability to not need to, but it's a bit short-sighted to just assume knocking it out is bad and evidence of an inferior playing culture.

[Tooj]

“If I go to Liverpool’s ground and someone puts the ball into the area and (Jamie) Carragher hammers it out of play then the fans applaud. In the Nou Camp you would never be applauded for that.

 

It’s a different culture that values different things. Here if they see you are afraid when you are in possession then you get whistled. It’s the world in reverse."

 

Tbf, that could be said about the majority of English teams.

 

Depends entirely on the context tbh. No defender is applauded for lashing it out under little or no pressure. Some players take the safety first option, some have the confidence and ability to not need to, but it's a bit short-sighted to just assume knocking it out is bad and evidence of an inferior playing culture.

 

Steven Taylor?

[Dave]

Applauding themselves doesn't count.

[ponsaelius]

“If I go to Liverpool’s ground and someone puts the ball into the area and (Jamie) Carragher hammers it out of play then the fans applaud. In the Nou Camp you would never be applauded for that.

 

It’s a different culture that values different things. Here if they see you are afraid when you are in possession then you get whistled. It’s the world in reverse."

 

Tbf, that could be said about the majority of English teams.

 

Depends entirely on the context tbh. No defender is applauded for lashing it out under little or no pressure. Some players take the safety first option, some have the confidence and ability to not need to, but it's a bit short-sighted to just assume knocking it out is bad and evidence of an inferior playing culture.

 

Yeah, that sounds about right. However, one trait I do find in this country which suggests an inferior playing culture is plenty of supporters will cheer and encourage wreckless, dangerous challenges that don't help with the ultimate purpose of winning the match.

[Ronaldo]

Xavi obviously hasn't seen much of Mike Williamson.

[Cronky]

 

Does that make Pardew top class?  You could argue he has over-achieved in not only total lack of backing and spending but also amidst hard times.  Dogface would never have stayed under these conditions.

 

Pardew has certianly worked with what he's got (and done without what he has lost).  Not saying he is top class, but compared to the KD situation, he is miles ahead IMHO.

 

It's a bit early to judge with Pardew. He's been here less than a year and he's only just started putting his own stamp on the team and the club. I'm optimistic though, because we've been getting results despite some ordinary performances and when we have Ben Arfa and Marveaux fully fit we should  - as AP would say - carry more of a fret.

 

Just because we've not spent big in terms of transfer fees doesn't mean he hasn't been backed. The players that have come in all look decent.

 

Dalglish's situation is very different. I doubt whether he'd have taken any other job in management, or been considered for any other job for that matter - at least in the Premiership. He's in a place where he's already respected and supported, financially and otherwise. My question mark is over what happens if or when he's pushed out of that comfort zone. He's done well up to now, but the momentum is bound to flag at some stage.

[Guest PhilB]

I love the way he handles the press, gives most of them the respect they deserve, thank f***.  He's been in the game far too long to be thin skinned and he's right, he's Liverpools manager not Brightons.  Give me that any day rather than Hodgson and his self praise, and defeatist attitude.

 

 

It's more accurate to say that, as a manager at least, he's been in and out of the game. At our club, the pressure did get to him and the experience seemed to blunt his appetite for management. Even at Blackburn, he ended up being kicked upstairs after questions were raised about his commitment, and then of course he left altogether. Celtic didn't seem to work at all. In his first spell at Liverpool, he resigned due to stress, albeit more understandably in that instance, having lived through two major tragedies.

 

He went upstairs at Blackburn because he wanted to do as he'd seen done, and did himself, at Liverpool, which was when you win a title you add more strength to the team before the next season, keeps everyone on their toes and gives more options.  Blackburn thought they were good enough already and rejected his request, thus he went upstairs and Ray Harford took over.  Kennys heart was always back at Liverpool and he regretted resigning when he did although everyone understood why.

 

Despite the early successes, it's a patchy, stop-start record. You can understand why there are question marks about his ability to handle the bad times.

 

His comments about refs felt a bit weird. He complained that they were biased against Liverpool, and then he seemed to back-track by saying he would talk to the owners about the problem and wouldn't do anything to harm the club's reputation. Well, you either withdraw the comment or you stick to your guns. It all felt a bit weak.

 

In the Brighton interview, he actually looked a bit stressed and tired, I thought. Defending your team is fine, but he actually seemed a bit rattled by the question. I saw another interview a short while back where he was asked when Steven Gerrard (I think it was) was likely to be back. It was a reasonable question, but his response was 'I don't know, I'm not psychic'. A bit rude.

 

He's always answered like that, much of the time with a smile though.  I like it myself and the day I worry about a journo being spoken to rudely is the day I'll give up watching football.

I think he's got a lot of the qualities of a good manager, but also has some vulnerable areas. First time round at Liverpool, he inherited the best team in the country and at Blackburn he was able to outspend every other club. The characteristic of a really top class manager is an ability to over-achieve on the resources available, and I don't think we've seen that yet with Dalglish.

 

KD did inherit the best team in the country but he took it up to a much higher level.  He had a vision of how he wanted his team to play and brought in the players accordingly, Barnes, Aldridge, McMahon, Beardsley, Houghton all great players, all but one costing less than a million, wonder who that could have been. 

 

I can't remember any team, other than Arsenal, and maybe Everton, who have over achieved on the resources available. Most teams finish the season, give or take a place or two, in the position they're expected to. Not many will make the CL without spending, Getting in the top half is easy, making that last step in to 4th is very hard indeed and actually stepping up to first is nigh on impossible for most clubs no matter how good the manager is if he doesn't have the resources.

 

 

[Dave]

*Hughton

 

Oh right.

[Cronky]

I love the way he handles the press, gives most of them the respect they deserve, thank f***.  He's been in the game far too long to be thin skinned and he's right, he's Liverpools manager not Brightons.  Give me that any day rather than Hodgson and his self praise, and defeatist attitude.

 

 

It's more accurate to say that, as a manager at least, he's been in and out of the game. At our club, the pressure did get to him and the experience seemed to blunt his appetite for management. Even at Blackburn, he ended up being kicked upstairs after questions were raised about his commitment, and then of course he left altogether. Celtic didn't seem to work at all. In his first spell at Liverpool, he resigned due to stress, albeit more understandably in that instance, having lived through two major tragedies.

 

He went upstairs at Blackburn because he wanted to do as he'd seen done, and did himself, at Liverpool, which was when you win a title you add more strength to the team before the next season, keeps everyone on their toes and gives more options.  Blackburn thought they were good enough already and rejected his request, thus he went upstairs and Ray Harford took over.  Kennys heart was always back at Liverpool and he regretted resigning when he did although everyone understood why.

 

Despite the early successes, it's a patchy, stop-start record. You can understand why there are question marks about his ability to handle the bad times.

 

His comments about refs felt a bit weird. He complained that they were biased against Liverpool, and then he seemed to back-track by saying he would talk to the owners about the problem and wouldn't do anything to harm the club's reputation. Well, you either withdraw the comment or you stick to your guns. It all felt a bit weak.

 

In the Brighton interview, he actually looked a bit stressed and tired, I thought. Defending your team is fine, but he actually seemed a bit rattled by the question. I saw another interview a short while back where he was asked when Steven Gerrard (I think it was) was likely to be back. It was a reasonable question, but his response was 'I don't know, I'm not psychic'. A bit rude.

 

He's always answered like that, much of the time with a smile though.  I like it myself and the day I worry about a journo being spoken to rudely is the day I'll give up watching football.

I think he's got a lot of the qualities of a good manager, but also has some vulnerable areas. First time round at Liverpool, he inherited the best team in the country and at Blackburn he was able to outspend every other club. The characteristic of a really top class manager is an ability to over-achieve on the resources available, and I don't think we've seen that yet with Dalglish.

 

KD did inherit the best team in the country but he took it up to a much higher level.  He had a vision of how he wanted his team to play and brought in the players accordingly, Barnes, Aldridge, McMahon, Beardsley, Houghton all great players, all but one costing less than a million, wonder who that could have been. 

 

I can't remember any team, other than Arsenal, and maybe Everton, who have over achieved on the resources available. Most teams finish the season, give or take a place or two, in the position they're expected to. Not many will make the CL without spending, Getting in the top half is easy, making that last step in to 4th is very hard indeed and actually stepping up to first is nigh on impossible for most clubs no matter how good the manager is if he doesn't have the resources.

 

 

On your first point, you're close to saying he lost interest when the money dried up. I don't know how true that is, but it seems clear he lost interest.

 

On your second point, in the past, Kenny has often used humour to disarm journalists. It seems to be eluding him at the moment. Whether or not journos deserve it or not, the issue is of whether Kenny is actually keeping his composure is the more important one.

 

On your third point, by the standards of what English clubs were paying in transfer fees at the time, none of the players you mention were cheap buys at all. They were established players and Liverpool paid the market rate. He wasn't taking a chance on any under-rated hidden gems.

 

I'm surprised at your point about over-achievement, because that's something that you see quite regularly in football. Moyes is the chief example of that at the moment. One can also see managers who have taken a club that's in a bit of a rut and moved them forward, like Ferguson at Man U and Wenger at Arsenal. Dalglish certainly took Blackburn to the top, but he was so heavily bank-rolled compared to other managers that it's hard to assess the achievement.

[Dr Venkman]

What I hate about Carragher is, despite the fact he's a complete liability and he knows it, should anyone else ever dare to make a mistake he's straight over in their face, shouting the odds and giving it the big 'un.  Having a word's one thing, but he always looks like he's a second away from decking them.

 

The guy behaves like a schoolyard bully on and off the pitch.  An utterly detestable prick.

 

Off the pitch?  Carragher is a family man through and through and can often be seen on sunny afternoons taking his kids for a bike ride along the river front.  He's as ordinary as anyone and you don't hear of him in the clubs or causing trouble anywhere. 

 

Aye. He's a good lad. He keeps injuring people on purpose to the training pitch, and stops his rambunctious, cheeky buddies from taking out a fellow professional.

 

He stands by what he said but that was a personal thing between him and the guy in question.

 

don't try and defend the comments in his book for gods sake, you'll end up looking as stupid as him.

[Dinho lad]

“If I go to Liverpool’s ground and someone puts the ball into the area and (Jamie) Carragher hammers it out of play then the fans applaud. In the Nou Camp you would never be applauded for that.

 

It’s a different culture that values different things. Here if they see you are afraid when you are in possession then you get whistled. It’s the world in reverse."

 

Tbf, that could be said about the majority of English teams.

 

I know, but I liked it that he highlighted Carragher in particular.

[mrmojorisin75]

some liverpool fan i know has just posted a picture of a brian clough statue on facebook with the comment "legend, should have been at lfc"

 

aye, 'cause during the time clough was managing liverpool were really going through the fucking doldrums weren't they?