Defensive/holding midfielder....

[ponsaelius]

Much prefer 2 'box to box' midfielders in there tbh. We need movement and energy in the middle of the park.

 

That's exactly the argument for bringing in a player of this ilk surely. Guthrie and Barton don't have energy and Nolan certainly doesn't have either.

 

Someone sitting in front of the 2 central defenders is going to bring movement and energy? Have I missed something? 

 

I don't even think it has to be somebody who just sits infront of the defenders. It just needs to be a midfielder with the legs and dynamism to get across the pitch, cover defensively and give us some energy in the centre of the park. Nearly all 'defensive midfielders' offer this.

 

For example 2 players mentioned in this thread (Reo-Coker and Annan) both offer these qualities.

[Mr. Snrub]

Much prefer 2 'box to box' midfielders in there tbh. We need movement and energy in the middle of the park.

 

That's exactly the argument for bringing in a player of this ilk surely. Guthrie and Barton don't have energy and Nolan certainly doesn't have either.

 

Someone sitting in front of the 2 central defenders is going to bring movement and energy? Have I missed something? 

 

All it's going to do is crowd out the middle of the park which will inevitably send Jonas further up the pitch which would be stupid as he's great tracking back.  Same with Routledge.

[Astroblack]

Would love Cattermole here for that position.

[ponsaelius]

Put it this way, I'll use Annan for purely examplary purposes.

 

Jonas - Annan - Barton/Guthrie - Routledge

 

is FAR more balanced than

 

Jonas - Guthrie -  Barton - Routledge

[Segun Oluwaniyi]

Much prefer 2 'box to box' midfielders in there tbh. We need movement and energy in the middle of the park.

 

That's exactly the argument for bringing in a player of this ilk surely. Guthrie and Barton don't have energy and Nolan certainly doesn't have either.

 

Someone sitting in front of the 2 central defenders is going to bring movement and energy? Have I missed something? 

 

All it's going to do is crowd out the middle of the park which will inevitably send Jonas further up the pitch which would be stupid as he's great tracking back.  Same with Routledge.

All it is going to do is provide protection for our slow centrebacks, allow our attacking players and fullbacks to focus more on attack, and provide an outlet for our unfit midfield.

[midds]

Much prefer 2 'box to box' midfielders in there tbh. We need movement and energy in the middle of the park.

 

That's exactly the argument for bringing in a player of this ilk surely. Guthrie and Barton don't have energy and Nolan certainly doesn't have either.

 

Someone sitting in front of the 2 central defenders is going to bring movement and energy? Have I missed something?

 

I don't even think it has to be somebody who just sits infront of the defenders. It just needs to be a midfielder with the legs and dynamism to get across the pitch, cover defensively and give us some energy in the centre of the park. Nearly all 'defensive midfielders' offer this.

 

For example 2 players mentioned in this thread (Reo-Coker and Annan) both offer these qualities.

 

I'd much rather have 2 CM that both defend when we've not got the ball and both support the attack when we're going forward. Don't think we're in a position to have one specialised defensive midfielder and one asked to create. We're going to be stretched all over the place and we need the midfield to be as mobile as possible, in both directions.

 

Each to their own though.

[ponsaelius]

Much prefer 2 'box to box' midfielders in there tbh. We need movement and energy in the middle of the park.

 

That's exactly the argument for bringing in a player of this ilk surely. Guthrie and Barton don't have energy and Nolan certainly doesn't have either.

 

Someone sitting in front of the 2 central defenders is going to bring movement and energy? Have I missed something? 

 

I don't even think it has to be somebody who just sits infront of the defenders. It just needs to be a midfielder with the legs and dynamism to get across the pitch, cover defensively and give us some energy in the centre of the park. Nearly all 'defensive midfielders' offer this.

 

For example 2 players mentioned in this thread (Reo-Coker and Annan) both offer these qualities.

 

I'd much rather have 2 CM that both defend when we've not got the ball and bothsupport the attack when we're going forward. Don't think we're in a position to have one specialised defensive midfielder and one asked to create. We're going to be stretched all over the place and we need the midfield to be as mobile as possible, in both directions.

 

Each to their own though.

 

But both Barton and Guthrie are useless defensively and both have limited physical attributes. Neither of them have the aptitude to provide mobility in both directions like you are saying. Are you suggesting we go out and buy 2 new midfielders who can do it all? (very hard to find)

 

I agree with you that assigning a role entirely is not productive in this instance but getting somebody in who has the adequate attributes to do the defensive/physical work is important imo. In this instance somebody like Annan actually offers just as much going forward as he does defensively tbh. He's like Essien-lite.

[midds]

Much prefer 2 'box to box' midfielders in there tbh. We need movement and energy in the middle of the park.

 

That's exactly the argument for bringing in a player of this ilk surely. Guthrie and Barton don't have energy and Nolan certainly doesn't have either.

 

Someone sitting in front of the 2 central defenders is going to bring movement and energy? Have I missed something? 

 

I don't even think it has to be somebody who just sits infront of the defenders. It just needs to be a midfielder with the legs and dynamism to get across the pitch, cover defensively and give us some energy in the centre of the park. Nearly all 'defensive midfielders' offer this.

 

For example 2 players mentioned in this thread (Reo-Coker and Annan) both offer these qualities.

 

I'd much rather have 2 CM that both defend when we've not got the ball and bothsupport the attack when we're going forward. Don't think we're in a position to have one specialised defensive midfielder and one asked to create. We're going to be stretched all over the place and we need the midfield to be as mobile as possible, in both directions.

 

Each to their own though.

 

But both Barton and Guthrie are useless defensively and both have limited physical attributes. Neither of them have the aptitude to provide mobility in both directions like you are saying. Are you suggesting we go out and buy 2 new midfielders who can do it all? (very hard to find)

 

I agree with you that assigning a role entirely is not productive in this instance but getting somebody in who has the adequate attributes to do the defensive/physical work is important imo. In this instance somebody like Annan actually offers just as much going forward as he does defensively tbh. He's like Essien-lite.

 

I'm hoping that Gosling and Barton can just about do it between them.

 

Ideally, we'd be buying 2 new CM who are the business but realistically, Barton and Gosling are as close as we've currently got. I accept that we're a long way short in that area but what else are we going to do?

[Doctor Zaius]

We could certainly do with an anchor man. However, at the moment, a creative midfielder and a goalscoring striker are absolutely essential whilst a defenisve midfielder isnt. I bare little hope of us signing a striker which will be pivotal to keeping us up imo never mind another centre midfielder, something we've got in abundance anyway.

[Yorkie]

What does the typical Premier League CM combination look like nowadays? The fashionable thing seems to be to have one of these deep lying centre-mids who'll combat attacks and run all day long. Smith's the only thing we have 'close' to that, in that he's probably got the best stamina, but his general ability is so poor it dilutes any effect he'd have in that position. To be honest, i think that's the sorta centre-mid i'd rather have. In reality, there's nothing in our squad that could perform those duties with anything like an adequate effect.

 

What out-and-out box-to-boxers are in the Premier League atm?

[Dave]

Personally I think the role is vastly overrated, nobody gave a fuck about it until Chelsea got Makelele and now everyone thinks it's the be all and end all. It's negative as owt and for a team like us would merely increase the pressure on the defence. We need players who can keep the ball not a fifth defender who does fuck all but tackle.

 

Two good central midfielders are what you need, it doesn't matter what they specialise in. If we can get a midfielder better than Nolan/Guthrie/Barton then great, but I'm not arsed about getting someone in just because their position on Football Manager is 'DM'.

[Mr. Snrub]

Much prefer 2 'box to box' midfielders in there tbh. We need movement and energy in the middle of the park.

 

That's exactly the argument for bringing in a player of this ilk surely. Guthrie and Barton don't have energy and Nolan certainly doesn't have either.

 

Someone sitting in front of the 2 central defenders is going to bring movement and energy? Have I missed something? 

 

All it's going to do is crowd out the middle of the park which will inevitably send Jonas further up the pitch which would be stupid as he's great tracking back.  Same with Routledge.

All it is going to do is provide protection for our slow centrebacks, allow our attacking players and fullbacks to focus more on attack, and provide an outlet for our unfit midfield.

 

And we're going to be able to attract a good ball winner who will protect the back 4 aswell as having great distribution who will improve our midfield instantly?

 

Unless Liverpool decide to give us Mascherano it's just not happening.

[Yorkie]

I don't think the good ones who play this position are simply about tackling. They're the first (or second, whatever) line of attack. They've got to be the best at retaining possession. Having that breeze-block at the foot of the midfield would be ideal for us, in my opinion.

 

I think everyone in the world would love two centre-mids who could both attack and both defend. We don't have 20 gazillion to spend though. Someone more specialist probably won't cost as much.

[Dave]

Much prefer 2 'box to box' midfielders in there tbh. We need movement and energy in the middle of the park.

 

That's exactly the argument for bringing in a player of this ilk surely. Guthrie and Barton don't have energy and Nolan certainly doesn't have either.

 

Someone sitting in front of the 2 central defenders is going to bring movement and energy? Have I missed something? 

 

All it's going to do is crowd out the middle of the park which will inevitably send Jonas further up the pitch which would be stupid as he's great tracking back.  Same with Routledge.

All it is going to do is provide protection for our slow centrebacks, allow our attacking players and fullbacks to focus more on attack, and provide an outlet for our unfit midfield.

 

And we're going to be able to attract a good ball winner who will protect the back 4 aswell as having great distribution who will improve our midfield instantly?

 

Unless Liverpool decide to give us Mascherano it's just not happening.

 

Mascherano's apparently the best DM the world has ever seen but Liverpool went to shit because they got rid of Xabi Alonso.

[ponsaelius]

Personally I think the role is vastly overrated, nobody gave a f*** about it until Chelsea got Makelele and now everyone thinks it's the be all and end all. It's negative as owt and for a team like us would merely increase the pressure on the defence. We need players who can keep the ball not a fifth defender who does f*** all but tackle.

 

Two good central midfielders are what you need, it doesn't matter what they specialise in. If we can get a midfielder better than Nolan/Guthrie/Barton then great, but I'm not arsed about getting someone in just because their position on Football Manager is 'DM'.

 

I think you're selling the position short with that description, there's a reason why so many teams use it and there's a reason why Makelele is so highly regarded.

 

In our case it's not about getting somebody in who does fuck all but tackle and fulfills the 'DM' role. It's more about bringing somebody in who has the physical capabilities to offer energy in midfield both defensively and breaking from the back. The reason we're suggesting buying a 'defensive midfielder' is because naturally it's this kind of player who offers these attributes that we desperately need in the middle of the park.

[JH]

Personally I think the role is vastly overrated, nobody gave a f*** about it until Chelsea got Makelele and now everyone thinks it's the be all and end all. It's negative as owt and for a team like us would merely increase the pressure on the defence. We need players who can keep the ball not a fifth defender who does f*** all but tackle.

 

Two good central midfielders are what you need, it doesn't matter what they specialise in. If we can get a midfielder better than Nolan/Guthrie/Barton then great, but I'm not arsed about getting someone in just because their position on Football Manager is 'DM'.

 

[ponsaelius]

Much prefer 2 'box to box' midfielders in there tbh. We need movement and energy in the middle of the park.

 

That's exactly the argument for bringing in a player of this ilk surely. Guthrie and Barton don't have energy and Nolan certainly doesn't have either.

 

Someone sitting in front of the 2 central defenders is going to bring movement and energy? Have I missed something? 

 

All it's going to do is crowd out the middle of the park which will inevitably send Jonas further up the pitch which would be stupid as he's great tracking back.  Same with Routledge.

All it is going to do is provide protection for our slow centrebacks, allow our attacking players and fullbacks to focus more on attack, and provide an outlet for our unfit midfield.

 

And we're going to be able to attract a good ball winner who will protect the back 4 aswell as having great distribution who will improve our midfield instantly?

 

Unless Liverpool decide to give us Mascherano it's just not happening.

 

Mascherano's apparently the best DM the world has ever seen but Liverpool went to s*** because they got rid of Xabi Alonso.

 

That's why the best teams have 2 players that can compliment each other. A Mascherano and a Xabi Alonso, in our case we have only have Xabi Alonsos.

 

That last bit sounds ridiculous.

[colinmk]

Don't think we need a holding midfielder, depends on the formation though. We certainly need a cm with better defensive attributes though, Barton, Guthrie and Smith are not good enough. Put either Guthrie or Barton beside someone with these attributes and I would expect them to improve. Basically we need a Darren Fletcher or even a Scott Parker type. We ain't gonna get one!

[jdckelly]

the use of a holding player depends on the formation if you ask me, its a waste in a 4-4-2 system where 2 box to box midfielders would be more useful imo but in the new fetish for international sides the 4-2-3-1 you can see the value of having one or two players to mind things at the back while leaving the other midfielders to attack.

barton can play the holding role if needs be i'd say and theres smith and perch so imo theres higher priority positions to worry about, defence I don't believe will be our problem scoring enough goals will be

[ponsaelius]

Don't think we need a holding midfielder, depends on the formation though. We certainly need a cm with better defensive attributes though, Barton, Guthrie and Smith are not good enough. Put either Guthrie or Barton beside someone with these attributes and I would expect them to improve. Basically we need a Darren Fletcher or even a Scott Parker type. We ain't gonna get one!

 

[BONTEMPI]

Xavi, Iniesta nuff said

 

If your midfielders don't give the ball away cheaply you don't need one

[Mr. Snrub]

Basically, a DM is a luxury position for the select few teams who will dominate posession in basically all their matches.

 

Like Dave said, even Liverpool couldn't pull it off once they got rid of Xabi.  If we tried it, it would be utter fucking suicide.

[jdckelly]

Xavi, Iniesta nuff said

 

If your midfielders don't give the ball away cheaply you don't need one

they have busquets behind them dont they

[ponsaelius]

Liverpool's problem once they got rid of Alonso was they had Lucas and Mascherano in midfield. Both of those players are negative and only served to split the team in 2.

[jdckelly]

Liverpool's problem once they got rid of Alonso was they had Lucas and Mascherano in midfield. Both of those players are negative and only served to split the team in 2.

yup and without alonso to get the ball to gerrard and torres they were feeding off scraps, aqualini i suppose was the apparent replacement but hes a crock