sparkzter Posted May 19, 2013 Share Posted May 19, 2013 Would be happy to see him go. Been terrible. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEEJ Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 I'd fucking give him away. Disgusting footballer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nufc4eva Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 Don't think he played to bad yesterday, bad decisions for some passes, but brought on by such a lack of options and movement. He is good when allowed to play the simple game and players around him make the space Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elliottman Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 Had a decent first half, went to shit in the 2nd. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledGeordie Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 Had a decent first half, went to s*** in the 2nd. Which is a common theme for a lot of our players isn't. Deflated and insipid are words to describe many of our second half performances and its all so predictable. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 Just seen it was his pass that set Walcott up for that near goal. He's useless. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 There used to be a case for him needing to return to 'breaking up play and keeping it simple' but that was when he wasn't being utilised properly. Now he isn't being utilised properly, can't pass 6 yards, makes Alan Smith tackles, loses the ball when he's last man and tries stupid Cruyff turns on the edge of our box. He's beyond the lows of his incorrect usage. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexthegreat Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 Sissokho - 23 years old capped for France at every level including 8 caps at senior level. Cabaye - 27 years old, 20 caps for France Anita - 24 years old, played for Holland, won the league with Ajax starting most games as a defensive midfielder Tiote - 26 years old, Ivory Coast international won the league with Twente as a defensive midfielder when he was 23, however struggled to start matches under Steve McClaren who said this about him: "With Checkkie in the team it was all a bit unpredictable, capricious. "Although he is on the bench, I've always told him that he was ready for the top. I also think that the English game is better for him. The pace in the Premier League is so high that it is less noticeable when he has lost the ball. "The game is up and down, up and down, so you always get the ball back quickly." Never as simple as just looking at stats, but I really think its time Pardew started looking at using him in the role he is supposed to have had at Twente under McClaren - squad player coming off the bench in the 2nd half. I'd far rather see what Sissokho can do for us next to Cabaye next season, and Anita is supposed to have excelled at taking the ball off the back 4 in Holland, which is something Tiote has struggled more and more with in England, and judging by McClaren's comments I expect it was also a problem at Twente. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
toontownman Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 Well we as fans identified the problem and called for it over a year ago now..maybe Pardew will pick up on it.. he won't change anything but maybe he will pick up on it. He is at his best as a DM, he can't shoot, he can't make forays forwards particularly well and is not the box to box player he has been pushed into being this year. If he keeps it simple and does what he is best at he could once again be very valuable to us. However right now it looks like his head is all over the place on the pitch and we haven't seen half the player that we did in his first year. Maybe that's because of the positional changes and mentality swap, or maybe he just really wasn't as good as he showed in his first year for us. On paper we should have a bloody beast of a midfield, especially if we add a decent right winger. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nixon Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 It's difficult not to feel sorry for him. He's not to know why his form has nosedived so dramatically. I think it's a mixture of reasons all touched on by others, bar one (I think anyway I may have just missed it). During the past two seasons he's seen the ball come through him more than this year. During that period he was quickly shuffling it out to the flanks and as a consequence it made him seem more important to the side than he was. I did a brief stat check and the Stoke home games from this and last season do highlight the point. According to Opta, he received the ball 50 times this season, 79 the year before. He attempted almost twice as many passes in the latter than he did a few months ago. I think when you couple that with the increased responsibilities he's been given in terms of trying to play it forward, creating chances and he was always going to struggle. As many have said he's nothing like Michael Essien, he's not nearly as explosive as Essien or technically proficient. He's an enforcer that works best patrolling infront of the defence and trying to isolate the opponent into a 1 on 1 battle in a tight area. I would also say playing alongside Cabaye hasn't helped. For all his technical gifts, Cabaye is not the most mobile of midfielders. He doesn't skip past players and so it falls to the third midfielder to try and provide the movement and energy. It might be fixed with some focused work in training but I think really you need to work on a style that suits the players but that is a digression for another time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 A lot of people here seem to favour a 4-3-3 set up, well for that to work consistently and long term then Tiote cannot be a starter. I'm going to use old fashioned terms here but bare with me.... what we need is a no 4 someone who gets the back 4 and starts attacks a playmaker if you will but from a much deeper position. We already have our no 6 and no 8 in Cabaye and Sissoko but behind them we don't have the player who wins the ball and starts attacks from deep positions. Tiote gets loads of possession but does absolutely nothing with it, imagine if we had a player in front of the back 4 with passing and tactical ability to do something with said possession it would make the team much more dangerous in possession IMO. Anita is probably the best bet for this role but Pardew doesn't seem to trust him sadly and if this continues to be the case then along with the obvious signings i believe we need something to complete our midfield because as of right now it looks disjointed and lacking some pieces to complete the jigsaw. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tachikoma Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 There used to be a case for him needing to return to 'breaking up play and keeping it simple' but that was when he wasn't being utilised properly. Now he isn't being utilised properly, can't pass 6 yards, makes Alan Smith tackles, loses the ball when he's last man and tries stupid Cruyff turns on the edge of our box. He's beyond the lows of his incorrect usage. I think building him up to be "the next Essien", then tearing him down and telling him to keep to the basics was the reason for this mess in the first place. I think the best thing to do now is to rebuild his confidence over the pre-season by letting him do whatever is most comfortable for him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 It's difficult not to feel sorry for him. He's not to know why his form has nosedived so dramatically. I think it's a mixture of reasons all touched on by others, bar one (I think anyway I may have just missed it). During the past two seasons he's seen the ball come through him more than this year. During that period he was quickly shuffling it out to the flanks and as a consequence it made him seem more important to the side than he was. I did a brief stat check and the Stoke home games from this and last season do highlight the point. According to Opta, he received the ball 50 times this season, 79 the year before. He attempted almost twice as many passes in the latter than he did a few months ago. I think when you couple that with the increased responsibilities he's been given in terms of trying to play it forward, creating chances and he was always going to struggle. As many have said he's nothing like Michael Essien, he's not nearly as explosive as Essien or technically proficient. He's an enforcer that works best patrolling infront of the defence and trying to isolate the opponent into a 1 on 1 battle in a tight area. I would also say playing alongside Cabaye hasn't helped. For all his technical gifts, Cabaye is not the most mobile of midfielders. He doesn't skip past players and so it falls to the third midfielder to try and provide the movement and energy. It might be fixed with some focused work in training but I think really you need to work on a style that suits the players but that is a digression for another time. A lot of people here seem to favour a 4-3-3 set up, well for that to work consistently and long term then Tiote cannot be a starter. I'm going to use old fashioned terms here but bare with me.... what we need is a no 4 someone who gets the back 4 and starts attacks a playmaker if you will but from a much deeper position. We already have our no 6 and no 8 in Cabaye and Sissoko but behind them we don't have the player who wins the ball and starts attacks from deep positions. Tiote gets loads of possession but does absolutely nothing with it, imagine if we had a player in front of the back 4 with passing and tactical ability to do something with said possession it would make the team much more dangerous in possession IMO. Anita is probably the best bet for this role but Pardew doesn't seem to trust him sadly and if this continues to be the case then along with the obvious signings i believe we need something to complete our midfield because as of right now it looks disjointed and lacking some pieces to complete the jigsaw. Two very good posts there. I honestly think Cabaye, Marveaux and Sissoko is the best midfield 3 we can put out there. With Cabaye the deepest of the 3. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 As for building him up to being Essien. I remember Tiote saying in his first season that Essien was the player he most tried to emulate. Playing him slightly more advanced, however brainless it is, is no excuse for how utterly shit he is with and without the ball. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tachikoma Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 As for building him up to being Essien. I remember Tiote saying in his first season that Essien was the player he most tried to emulate. Playing him slightly more advanced, however brainless it is, is no excuse for how utterly shit he is with and without the ball. Yes, I'm aware of that, but shoving him into the "Essien position" to pander to him was a mistake. Cheik wasn't always bad with the ball and we never, ever look as solid without him. Sissoko had been even worse on the ball in the last 3-4 games he played for us, easily. Doesn't mean we should drop him like a sack of bricks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 Sissoko's just a far better footballer, athlete, mentally, whatever. I've always though that a midfielder than can't contribute in the final 3rd is either a defender or nothing at all, so the likes of Jonas and Tiote probably can't ever win with me, but by Christ they've taken the absolute piss in the last 18 months. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 I didn't even consider Cabaye as the deepest of a 3, i would usually bat it out of hand but considering the biggest issue with him playing there is you would usually lose something further up the pitch but that problem is easily negated by Marveaux being there instead of dross like Jonas or Tiote. In any case considering Marveaux's injury history i wouldn't like to rely on him, which is why i believe a playmaker of some sort is necessary. Whether that is one who is the deepest of a midfield 3 or the most advanced of a midfield 3 with Cabaye and Sissoko behind him is really up to how the manager in question wants the team to set up. Despite the great midfield numbers we have i still don't think a right balance has been struck yet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tachikoma Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 I didn't even consider Cabaye as the deepest of a 3, i would usually bat it out of hand but considering the biggest issue with him playing there is you would usually lose something further up the pitch but that problem is easily negated by Marveaux being there instead of dross like Jonas or Tiote. In any case considering Marveaux's injury history i wouldn't like to rely on him, which is why i believe a playmaker of some sort is necessary. Whether that is one who is the deepest of a midfield 3 or the most advanced of a midfield 3 with Cabaye and Sissoko behind him is really up to how the manager in question wants the team to set up. Despite the great midfield numbers we have i still don't think a right balance has been struck yet. Cabaye doesn't have the trickery necessary to play in the advanced playmaker's role, imo. The final third is always the tightest area in the pitch and Cabaye needs his space, so Marveaux is comfortably the best player we have for that position. I'm still a bit unsure about Sissoko, wrt how he'll fit in with the other players. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanj Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 I really want to like Tiote as much as I used to, but I seriously can't trust him and its sad b/c there are times when he runs the show and he's forcing those 1 on 1 duels that Nixon alluded to and its really awesome to see him win those with such ferocity. I think our man Anita is the man to play the deepest in all honesty, and we've seen many quality players take time to adapt, so maybe he's the one; and hopefully for the sake of his career it's soon. But as of the end of our season, I think a more potent trio is Cabaye deepest, Sissoko box to box and Marv playing advanced behind the main striker. Madness such a technically gifted player like him has sat on the bench for so long; but fully expecting many on here to say Marv is never going to be able to play in midfield for us. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 I didn't even consider Cabaye as the deepest of a 3, i would usually bat it out of hand but considering the biggest issue with him playing there is you would usually lose something further up the pitch but that problem is easily negated by Marveaux being there instead of dross like Jonas or Tiote. In any case considering Marveaux's injury history i wouldn't like to rely on him, which is why i believe a playmaker of some sort is necessary. Whether that is one who is the deepest of a midfield 3 or the most advanced of a midfield 3 with Cabaye and Sissoko behind him is really up to how the manager in question wants the team to set up. Despite the great midfield numbers we have i still don't think a right balance has been struck yet. Cabaye doesn't have the trickery necessary to play in the advanced playmaker's role, imo. The final third is always the tightest area in the pitch and Cabaye needs his space, so Marveaux is comfortably the best player we have for that position. I'm still a bit unsure about Sissoko, wrt how he'll fit in with the other players. I agree but i never said he did.... in my post i mentioned him playing as the deepest of the 3 or alongside Sissoko as a 2 with an AM infront ( Marveaux or a new signing) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lotus Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 Still not sure how best Anita can fit into our midfield. Cabaye isn't as effective as previously. Tiote looks like he's trying all the things he shouldn't and neglecting all the things he should. Marveaux can't handle a CM role imo. Sissoko had a good couple of games and then he looked devoid of any idea of how to influence a game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 Anita Sissoko Cabaye Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirge Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 Tiote is well worth keeping, he is not the only player who had a shit season Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnonel Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 Agree. Just need to mould him to maximise his strengths and minimise his weakness. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lotus Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 Anita Sissoko Cabaye Reckon Cabaye is off and i don't think Pardew rates Anita (and to some extent i can see why so far tbh). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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