Steven Taylor (now retired)

[Unbelievable]

You've missed the point.

 

What is your point?

[Cronky]

Even allowing for Taylor's reputation for being thick, I was quite shocked by those pictures.

 

He has no defence and he's in big trouble now. Apart from the FA punishment, the club may feel they have to let him go.

 

Give over They're well aware he's a few sandwiches short of a picnic

 

That's true, but the club is going to come under pressure to act in the days ahead. The club and its supporters can put it into the context of Taylor's well-known bone-headedness. Those on the outside won't be so charitable. And those pictures look really bad.

 

Getting the boot is the worst case scenario, but you don't know how things might develop if the national media start to take a strong interest in this.

[Cajun]

He won't get the boot.

[Ronaldo]

Course he won't, man. Really ridiculous suggestion.

[Unbelievable]

I must have missed something here, but I will gladly be educated. What is so incredibly bad about those pictures, beyond bad taste and a horrendous sense of humour?

[Ronaldo]

I must have missed something here, but I will gladly be educated. What is so incredibly bad about those pictures, beyond bad taste and a horrendous sense of humour?

 

Basically.

[Segun Oluwaniyi]

Suarez and Terry were both convicted of actual racist actions to actual people and no one expected their own clubs to sack them. If a club sacks you, it is generally because you have done something heinous. If it is for something as small as this, you must not be very good at all.

[Dave]

http://i.imgur.com/J84BHHc.jpg

[Cronky]

I must have missed something here, but I will gladly be educated. What is so incredibly bad about those pictures, beyond bad taste and a horrendous sense of humour?

 

That's your take on it, and perhaps the take of a lot of people. However, is that the way the FA will see it - just a tasteless joke? And then the club will need to be seen to act.

 

It's not a punishment I'm advocating, and it may not go that far. But we've seen two well established TV presenters lose their jobs for making a joke about a female assistant not knowing the offside rule. These situations have a momentum which aren't always easy to control. That's my point.

[Ronaldo]

we've seen two well established TV presenters lose their jobs for making a joke about a female assistant not knowing the offside rule.

 

[Cajun]

I must have missed something here, but I will gladly be educated. What is so incredibly bad about those pictures, beyond bad taste and a horrendous sense of humour?

 

That's your take on it, and perhaps the take of a lot of people. However, is that the way the FA will see it - just a tasteless joke? And then the club will need to be seen to act.

 

It's not a punishment I'm advocating, and it may not go that far. But we've seen two well established TV presenters lose their jobs for making a joke about a female assistant not knowing the offside rule. These situations have a momentum which aren't always easy to control. That's my point.

 

 

Terry and Suarez have done far worse.

[Unbelievable]

I must have missed something here, but I will gladly be educated. What is so incredibly bad about those pictures, beyond bad taste and a horrendous sense of humour?

 

That's your take on it, and perhaps the take of a lot of people. However, is that the way the FA will see it - just a tasteless joke? And then the club will need to be seen to act.

 

It's not a punishment I'm advocating, and it may not go that far. But we've seen two well established TV presenters lose their jobs for making a joke about a female assistant not knowing the offside rule. These situations have a momentum which aren't always easy to control. That's my point.

 

I won't deny anything the media get their ugly hands on can potentially become subject to a dynamic that may lead to excessive punishment, but quite frankly the FA would need to be ashamed of itself that it lets career threatening tackles on the pitch like the one on Haidara slide and then would decide to make a point about a non football related, off-the-pitch, not highly offensive, ill-judged joke by a football player.

[Cronky]

I must have missed something here, but I will gladly be educated. What is so incredibly bad about those pictures, beyond bad taste and a horrendous sense of humour?

 

That's your take on it, and perhaps the take of a lot of people. However, is that the way the FA will see it - just a tasteless joke? And then the club will need to be seen to act.

 

It's not a punishment I'm advocating, and it may not go that far. But we've seen two well established TV presenters lose their jobs for making a joke about a female assistant not knowing the offside rule. These situations have a momentum which aren't always easy to control. That's my point.

 

 

Terry and Suarez have done far worse.

 

I don't know about that. Try and imagine what would have happened if Terry or Suarez had posted those pictures.

 

Unlike those two, Steven Taylor is not a major figure in the game, and so far there's not been much attention from the national media. That might change.

[Cajun]

I must have missed something here, but I will gladly be educated. What is so incredibly bad about those pictures, beyond bad taste and a horrendous sense of humour?

 

That's your take on it, and perhaps the take of a lot of people. However, is that the way the FA will see it - just a tasteless joke? And then the club will need to be seen to act.

 

It's not a punishment I'm advocating, and it may not go that far. But we've seen two well established TV presenters lose their jobs for making a joke about a female assistant not knowing the offside rule. These situations have a momentum which aren't always easy to control. That's my point.

 

 

Terry and Suarez have done far worse.

 

I don't know about that. Try and imagine what would have happened if Terry or Suarez had posted those pictures.

 

Unlike those two, Steven Taylor is not a major figure in the game, and so far there's not been much attention from the national media. That might change.

 

If you don't know about that then I don't know what to say really.

 

It is nothing to do with who is a 'major' figure, it is to do with those two saying things in a malicious context and Taylor saying something ignorant but very much in a matey/banter sort of way. I guarantee those who Taylor directed his tweet at did nothing but laugh and thought "what a dick!" where as Ferdinand/Evra were disgusted and chose to take it to the relevant authorities.

[Cronky]

I must have missed something here, but I will gladly be educated. What is so incredibly bad about those pictures, beyond bad taste and a horrendous sense of humour?

 

That's your take on it, and perhaps the take of a lot of people. However, is that the way the FA will see it - just a tasteless joke? And then the club will need to be seen to act.

 

It's not a punishment I'm advocating, and it may not go that far. But we've seen two well established TV presenters lose their jobs for making a joke about a female assistant not knowing the offside rule. These situations have a momentum which aren't always easy to control. That's my point.

 

 

Terry and Suarez have done far worse.

 

I don't know about that. Try and imagine what would have happened if Terry or Suarez had posted those pictures.

 

Unlike those two, Steven Taylor is not a major figure in the game, and so far there's not been much attention from the national media. That might change.

 

If you don't know about that then I don't know what to say really.

 

It is nothing to do with who is a 'major' figure, it is to do with those two saying things in a malicious context and Taylor saying something ignorant but very much in a matey/banter sort of way. I guarantee those who Taylor directed his tweet at did nothing but laugh and thought "what a dick!" where as Ferdinand/Evra were disgusted and chose to take it to the relevant authorities.

 

Well that may be right, but the FA aren't going to laugh and say, 'What a dick!' Nor are the national media, if they really get hold of it. And I wouldn't be so sure that no-body in the club has taken offence.

 

When I said, 'I don't know', it's really about the pointlessness of trying to compare different examples of bad behaviour.

[B-more Mag]

You've missed the point.

 

What is your point?

 

People generally don't respond to jokes about their perceived lack of ability or undesirable characteristics with random observations about the color of things. Rather, they respond with similar jokes about the other's perceived lack of ability or undesirable characteristics. For example, I don't respond to jokes that I'm a loud, fat, stupid American by telling the other person that their shirt is blue.

 

Taylor was teased by teammates about his lack of facility with the French language. He responded with a joke about them being black. Perhaps he's a slobbering imbecile and responded to a jibe about his French with a random observation that they are black. I don't think so. Whether he realized it or not--probably not--underlying his observation that his teammates are, in fact, black is the presumption that there is something undesirable about being black.

 

Whether you like it or not--and it's clear that you don't--based on the historical treatment of blacks by whites, it's not appropriate for whites to joke in this manner.

[Mike]

Shit has been out of hand since we briefly worked together to elect BO.

[B-more Mag]

Maybe Republicans are unwittingly the solution to race relations.

[Unbelievable]

You've missed the point.

 

What is your point?

 

People generally don't respond to jokes about their perceived lack of ability or undesirable characteristics with random observations about the color of things. Rather, they respond with similar jokes about the other's perceived lack of ability or undesirable characteristics. For example, I don't respond to jokes that I'm a loud, fat, stupid American by telling the other person that their shirt is blue.

 

Taylor was teased by teammates about his lack of facility with the French language. He responded with a joke about them being black. Perhaps he's a slobbering imbecile and responded to a jibe about his French with a random observation that they are black. I don't think so. Whether he realized it or not--probably not--underlying his observation that his teammates are, in fact, black is the presumption that there is something undesirable about being black.

 

Whether you like it or not--and it's clear that you don't--based on the historical treatment of blacks by whites, it's not appropriate for whites to joke in this manner.

 

Alternatively and entirely conceivably based on the fact they work together and speak to each other every day, probably enjoying banter as grown men do, there is a lot more to that Taylor response than meets the eye, i.e. it may not just be the mindless, non sensical, non provoked race reference it appears to be at first glance.

 

I also object to the notion that racism is something white people do with regards to black people, as was also inferred in your earlier post, and which was what I pointed out when you claimed I missed your point. There is plenty of racism between other races, also towards the caucasian race.

 

And finally I have a problem with the political correctness of it all, yes. To me, there is no subject so touchy that it couldn't be joked about in principle, as long as it doesn't cross certain borders like inciting violence. A lot of what we're seeing here is people being offended on behalf of others, who probably just laugh this non-incident off as any sane person would.

[Crumpy Gunt]

He needs to be charged just for giving the yoghurt knitters a platform to feel self important.

[Guest]

Release a statement that he's sorry to have offended people and offer his week's wages to a charity for racism awareness or something, and be done with it. Personally I'm more disturbed by the fact that any hint at "racism" (by which I mean distinguishing between races of human beings, not hatred based on skin colour) still elicites this type of reaction from the general public than by his actual tweet. Whilst incredibly stupid (because of going against PC standards using a public medium) and criminally unfunny, I don't think there was any intent to offend. Much ado about nothing.

I don't get these constant criticisms of those taking offense tbh.

 

Are they supposed to apply some kind of social triage to these situations and only yell about the big ones that you tell them they can care about and ignore everything else? Does reading that sentence help highlight the ludicrous nature of your criticism?

 

That some ills are worse than others doesn't mean anyone has to keep quiet about the small ones and only shout about the large ones. Indeed it's the accumulation of these small social ills that can give rise to larger ones and they are every bit as much worth calling out when they happen.

 

Good point. That's the first sensible thing you've said all day.

[Cajun]

Release a statement that he's sorry to have offended people and offer his week's wages to a charity for racism awareness or something, and be done with it. Personally I'm more disturbed by the fact that any hint at "racism" (by which I mean distinguishing between races of human beings, not hatred based on skin colour) still elicites this type of reaction from the general public than by his actual tweet. Whilst incredibly stupid (because of going against PC standards using a public medium) and criminally unfunny, I don't think there was any intent to offend. Much ado about nothing.

I don't get these constant criticisms of those taking offense tbh.

 

Are they supposed to apply some kind of social triage to these situations and only yell about the big ones that you tell them they can care about and ignore everything else? Does reading that sentence help highlight the ludicrous nature of your criticism?

 

That some ills are worse than others doesn't mean anyone has to keep quiet about the small ones and only shout about the large ones. Indeed it's the accumulation of these small social ills that can give rise to larger ones and they are every bit as much worth calling out when they happen.

 

Good point. That's the first sensible thing you've said all day.

 

You said this to me recently, what's going on!?

[Tachikoma]

Release a statement that he's sorry to have offended people and offer his week's wages to a charity for racism awareness or something, and be done with it. Personally I'm more disturbed by the fact that any hint at "racism" (by which I mean distinguishing between races of human beings, not hatred based on skin colour) still elicites this type of reaction from the general public than by his actual tweet. Whilst incredibly stupid (because of going against PC standards using a public medium) and criminally unfunny, I don't think there was any intent to offend. Much ado about nothing.

I don't get these constant criticisms of those taking offense tbh.

 

Are they supposed to apply some kind of social triage to these situations and only yell about the big ones that you tell them they can care about and ignore everything else? Does reading that sentence help highlight the ludicrous nature of your criticism?

 

That some ills are worse than others doesn't mean anyone has to keep quiet about the small ones and only shout about the large ones. Indeed it's the accumulation of these small social ills that can give rise to larger ones and they are every bit as much worth calling out when they happen.

 

The problem about "zero tolerance" policies towards racism, is that it also makes it impossible to objectively discuss racism and if anything, adds that bit of temptation to simply be racist for the sake of being racist. The problem isn't about keeping quiet about the "small ills", the problem is that we're calling it an ill at all when there was no malicious intent whatsoever.

[Unbelievable]

Release a statement that he's sorry to have offended people and offer his week's wages to a charity for racism awareness or something, and be done with it. Personally I'm more disturbed by the fact that any hint at "racism" (by which I mean distinguishing between races of human beings, not hatred based on skin colour) still elicites this type of reaction from the general public than by his actual tweet. Whilst incredibly stupid (because of going against PC standards using a public medium) and criminally unfunny, I don't think there was any intent to offend. Much ado about nothing.

I don't get these constant criticisms of those taking offense tbh.

 

Are they supposed to apply some kind of social triage to these situations and only yell about the big ones that you tell them they can care about and ignore everything else? Does reading that sentence help highlight the ludicrous nature of your criticism?

 

That some ills are worse than others doesn't mean anyone has to keep quiet about the small ones and only shout about the large ones. Indeed it's the accumulation of these small social ills that can give rise to larger ones and they are every bit as much worth calling out when they happen.

 

The problem about "zero tolerance" policies towards racism, is that it also makes it impossible to objectively discuss racism and if anything, adds that bit of temptation to simply be racist for the sake of being racist. The problem isn't about keeping quiet about the "small ills", the problem is that we're calling it an ill at all when there was no malicious intent whatsoever.

 

[B-more Mag]

You've missed the point.

 

What is your point?

 

People generally don't respond to jokes about their perceived lack of ability or undesirable characteristics with random observations about the color of things. Rather, they respond with similar jokes about the other's perceived lack of ability or undesirable characteristics. For example, I don't respond to jokes that I'm a loud, fat, stupid American by telling the other person that their shirt is blue.

 

Taylor was teased by teammates about his lack of facility with the French language. He responded with a joke about them being black. Perhaps he's a slobbering imbecile and responded to a jibe about his French with a random observation that they are black. I don't think so. Whether he realized it or not--probably not--underlying his observation that his teammates are, in fact, black is the presumption that there is something undesirable about being black.

 

Whether you like it or not--and it's clear that you don't--based on the historical treatment of blacks by whites, it's not appropriate for whites to joke in this manner.

 

Alternatively and entirely conceivably based on the fact they work together and speak to each other every day, probably enjoying banter as grown men do, there is a lot more to that Taylor response than meets the eye, i.e. it may not just be the mindless, non sensical, non provoked race reference it appears to be at first glance.

 

I also object to the notion that racism is something white people do with regards to black people, as was also inferred in your earlier post, and which was what I pointed out when you claimed I missed your point. There is plenty of racism between other races, also towards the caucasian race.

 

And finally I have a problem with the political correctness of it all, yes. To me, there is no subject so touchy that it couldn't be joked about in principle, as long as it doesn't cross certain borders like inciting violence. A lot of what we're seeing here is people being offended on behalf of others, who probably just laugh this non-incident off as any sane person would.

 

Edit: That was a stupid response I just wrote. We're just coming from fundamentally different places on this that really aren't reconcilable here.