Kevin Nolan

[Andy]

Who cares where his goals come from, as long as he's getting them? I'd rather him score 13 or 14 scrappy goals from set pieces than 3 wonder goals over the course of a season.

 

Whilst I appreciate what you are saying, that's a pretty simplistic way of looking at it.  First, you would have to consider whether they are goals that could have been scored by a) someone else in the team doing the same job (ie standing in front of the keeper at corners or b) in his position as a midfielder breaking from deep.

 

That's an even more simplistic way of looking at it tbh, because it's disregarding one of the most little-found elements in a central midfielder's game. How many other midfielders in Europe have scored as many from his position this season? I bet you could count them on one hand.

 

The debate that we're having in this thread about Nolan is deja vu -- the same discussions took place over Laurent Robert in the Robson era. Most people didn't realise the value of his goals and assists until it was too late.

 

 

[Hughesy]

Who cares where his goals come from, as long as he's getting them? I'd rather him score 13 or 14 scrappy goals from set pieces than 3 wonder goals over the course of a season.

 

Whilst I appreciate what you are saying, that's a pretty simplistic way of looking at it.  First, you would have to consider whether they are goals that could have been scored by a) someone else in the team doing the same job (ie standing in front of the keeper at corners or b) in his position as a midfielder breaking from deep.

 

That's an even more simplistic way of looking at it tbh, because it's disregarding one of the most little-found elements in a central midfielder's game. How many other midfielders in Europe have scored as many from his position this season? I bet you could count them on one hand.

 

The debate that we're having in this thread about Nolan is deja vu -- the same discussions took place over Laurent Robert in the Robson era. Most people didn't realise the value of his goals and assists until it was too late.

 

 

That's pretty much what i've said...?  Part a) addresses whether these goals could have been scored by someone else on the team had they taken up the set play position he did (which is controllable) and part b) addresses whether another midfielder playing in his position would score the amount of goals.  This would weigh up his finishing ability, his ability to time his runs, but then also the fact that that is his role in the team and he is given the licence to do so.

[Andy]

Who cares where his goals come from, as long as he's getting them? I'd rather him score 13 or 14 scrappy goals from set pieces than 3 wonder goals over the course of a season.

 

Whilst I appreciate what you are saying, that's a pretty simplistic way of looking at it.  First, you would have to consider whether they are goals that could have been scored by a) someone else in the team doing the same job (ie standing in front of the keeper at corners or b) in his position as a midfielder breaking from deep.

 

That's an even more simplistic way of looking at it tbh, because it's disregarding one of the most little-found elements in a central midfielder's game. How many other midfielders in Europe have scored as many from his position this season? I bet you could count them on one hand.

 

The debate that we're having in this thread about Nolan is deja vu -- the same discussions took place over Laurent Robert in the Robson era. Most people didn't realise the value of his goals and assists until it was too late.

 

 

That's pretty much what i've said...?  Part a) addresses whether these goals could have been scored by someone else on the team had they taken up the set play position he did (which is controllable) and part b) addresses whether another midfielder playing in his position would score the amount of goals.  This would weigh up his finishing ability, his ability to time his runs, but then also the fact that that is his role in the team and he is given the licence to do so.

 

Sorry, by responding to my defence of Nolan I actually thought you were using that as an argument against him -- saying that other players could bring the same qualities; which is obviously extremely debatable. 

 

I don't like the argument that he doesn't cover enough ground either, going back to your original post. He's not the most mobile (although nowhere near as immobile as people like to make out), but as I said a few pages back, mobility isn't the be-all/end-all in midfield and he has Tiote alongside him for that purpose anyway. More important is having the intelligence to be in the right places and to hold the shape of the team; Nolan excels at that more than anything else. It was very noticeable when he was absent earlier in the season - our midfield were poor even with Tiote in the middle.

[TRon]

Who cares where his goals come from, as long as he's getting them? I'd rather him score 13 or 14 scrappy goals from set pieces than 3 wonder goals over the course of a season.

 

Whilst I appreciate what you are saying, that's a pretty simplistic way of looking at it.  First, you would have to consider whether they are goals that could have been scored by a) someone else in the team doing the same job (ie standing in front of the keeper at corners or b) in his position as a midfielder breaking from deep.

 

Secondly, you have to ask whether the goals he scores (having addressed the first point) outweigh the negativs he brings to the team.  Ie his lack of mobility and his inability to get around the pitch, but also his positives - ie leadership.

 

Personally, I am fairly ambivalent on Nolan.  He has won me over this season with his goals and his leadership qualities.  However, if we are to make a concerted push for Europe next season, I think he will be one of the weaker links in the team.

 

Basically what I have been saying as well. It's true I called him a fat pub footballer previously which was harsh, but he's still a midfielder who will suit long ball teams better.

[TRon]

Who cares where his goals come from, as long as he's getting them? I'd rather him score 13 or 14 scrappy goals from set pieces than 3 wonder goals over the course of a season.

 

Whilst I appreciate what you are saying, that's a pretty simplistic way of looking at it.  First, you would have to consider whether they are goals that could have been scored by a) someone else in the team doing the same job (ie standing in front of the keeper at corners or b) in his position as a midfielder breaking from deep.

 

That's an even more simplistic way of looking at it tbh, because it's disregarding one of the most little-found elements in a central midfielder's game. How many other midfielders in Europe have scored as many from his position this season? I bet you could count them on one hand.

 

The debate that we're having in this thread about Nolan is deja vu -- the same discussions took place over Laurent Robert in the Robson era. Most people didn't realise the value of his goals and assists until it was too late.

 

 

That's pretty much what i've said...?  Part a) addresses whether these goals could have been scored by someone else on the team had they taken up the set play position he did (which is controllable) and part b) addresses whether another midfielder playing in his position would score the amount of goals.  This would weigh up his finishing ability, his ability to time his runs, but then also the fact that that is his role in the team and he is given the licence to do so.

 

Sorry, by responding to my defence of Nolan I actually thought you were using that as an argument against him -- saying that other players could bring the same qualities; which is obviously extremely debatable. 

 

I don't like the argument that he doesn't cover enough ground either, going back to your original post. He's not the most mobile (although nowhere near as immobile as people like to make out), but as I said a few pages back, mobility isn't the be-all/end-all in midfield and he has Tiote alongside him for that purpose anyway. More important is having the intelligence to be in the right places and to hold the shape of the team; Nolan excels at that more than anything else. It was very noticeable when he was absent earlier in the season - our midfield were poor even with Tiote in the middle.

 

I think he covers enough ground, just does it too slowly. How is he going to close players down if he can't get close to them? What he does do is drop back and try and plug the gaps he leaves which is the next best thing and I am in agreement that this is part of holding the shape which is in his favour. What we lose out on is another midfielder capable of pressing the ball like Tiote, or capable of playing one two's with other forwards or midfielders because he doesn't have the legs for it. In my view this is part of the reason there always seems to be a big gap between the midfield and attack.

[Thespence]

Pards

 

"Only Steven Gerrard and Frank Lampard score as many from midfield as Kevin," said Pardew. "Maybe because of Bolton's style when he was there I didn't think Kevin was as good as he is. Technically he's more accomplished than I gave him credit for. He's as important to us as Gerrard and Lampard are to their teams."

[Guest]

A dig at Sam Allardyce thrown in there just for good measure too...Pardew, I salute you.

[Heron]

How does Lampard get in the England team ahead of Nolan btw. It's ridiculous based on this years form. How can any of us say Nolan wouldn't be good for England when he's not been given a chance?

 

Don't get me wrong, Nolan isn't the be all end all, but how come so many shit players have constantly been given a chance at international level and yet he hasn't yet?

 

Nolan is fucking quality, and he is part of the balanced midfield we have. Jonas, Barton and Tiote cover all the ground required to contribute to our defensive needs, and as a result this gives Nolan the chance to be a target man/playmaker and focus on talking and organizing the team.

 

If the one thing people can complain about it lack of mobility, I think they need to look at previous Newcastle greats - Robert (did fuck all defensively), Ginola was the same, Nobby wasn't the most mobile towards the end but ending on Nobby he had a footballing mind that would beat any of the Kieron Dyers or Obafemi Martins of this world. Nolan is of a similar type.

 

I personally don't believe there's many better (available) players for this club than Nolan atm, especially not when to get someone better it would cost at least £20million or some sort of miracle signing.

[Ronaldo]

Perhaps because Lampard's about a hundred times the player.

[Heron]

Perhaps because Lampard's about a hundred times the player.

 

Not based on this year. 

 

With a good solid partner in midfield, Nolan can be effective. See Tiote.

[Ronaldo]

Based on this year, DJ Campbell is better than Drogba, Torres and Rooney.

 

It doesn't work like that, mate.

[Heron]

Based on this year, DJ Campbell is better than Drogba, Torres and Rooney.

 

It doesn't work like that, mate.

 

It should, to a certain degree. Kevin Nolan is in form, and how many times have we seen the likes of Lampard be substituted recently for England, and the likes of Rooney, etc and our mentality changes as a team. The new or young ones come on and give it a right go, instead of being egotistical little cuntbags.

 

The England team needs more Nolans and less Lampards for me, you only have to look at what we (Newcastle) have achieved from being a good, dedicated, passionate unit and not 11 bell-ends with a massive wage.

 

Lampard is better than Nolan, but Nolan is in better form, and as a result should be considered equally as much for friendlies, especially.

[Ronaldo]

Nolan isn't in form, not really. Certainly not international form, anyway. He's doing Ok and went on a pretty good run of scoring in the first half of the season.

 

 

[TRon]

Pards

 

"Only Steven Gerrard and Frank Lampard score as many from midfield as Kevin," said Pardew. "Maybe because of Bolton's style when he was there I didn't think Kevin was as good as he is. Technically he's more accomplished than I gave him credit for. He's as important to us as Gerrard and Lampard are to their teams."

 

Good quote that. It shows Pardew knows his business. Technically Nolan isn't bad at all, but compare him as an athlete to Gerrard or Lampard and the comparison becomes embarrassing. That's the bit Pards left out.

[wormy]

I'm with you in terms of not wanting to see the same shitehawks showing no heart or interest in international football, heza. But Nolan in place of them? Who would fill that Tiote role next to him? If Capello were to shake things up, as much as I've come round to him, I wouldn't be expecting or particularly wanting Nolan included in that shake up.

[KaKa]

Will be seriously dissapointed if Nolan is in the first team next season. Disgustingly conditioned athlete, who cannot contribute to any kind of general play, and he is supposed to be a central midfielder?! Just not good enough. The sad thing is if he actually committed himself to getting in decent shape he would likely be a pretty good player, but at the moment his contribution to play is inexcusable.

 

A central midfield goal poacher?! Just doesn't make sense really. Tiote has saved him this season, and should exploire the legalities of laying claim to half of Nolan's salary. Does anyone remember how awful he was alongside Butt or Smith the season we went down? I will never, ever forget. That player is only one injury to Tiote away from making a return to the team. Looked completely off the pace against Stevenage for goodness sake.

 

Hope Pardew is just massaging his ego a bit. I'm worried.

[Yorkie]

Will be seriously dissapointed if Nolan is in the first team next season. Disgustingly conditioned athlete, who cannot contribute to any kind of general play, and he is supposed to be a central midfielder?! Just not good enough. The sad thing is if he actually committed himself to getting in decent shape he would likely be a pretty good player, but at the moment his contribution to play is inexcusable.

 

A central midfield goal poacher?! Just doesn't make sense really. Tiote has saved him this season, and should exploire the legalities of laying claim to half of Nolan's salary. Does anyone remember how awful he was alongside Butt or Smith the season we went down? I will never, ever forget. That player is only one injury to Tiote away from making a return to the team. Looked completely off the pace against Stevenage for goodness sake.

 

Hope Pardew is just massaging his ego a bit. I'm worried.

 

What are you on man. Ridiculous statement.

[Dave]

Clueless.

[Wullie]

Will be seriously dissapointed if Nolan is in the first team next season. Disgustingly conditioned athlete, who cannot contribute to any kind of general play, and he is supposed to be a central midfielder?! Just not good enough. The sad thing is if he actually committed himself to getting in decent shape he would likely be a pretty good player, but at the moment his contribution to play is inexcusable.

 

A central midfield goal poacher?! Just doesn't make sense really. Tiote has saved him this season, and should exploire the legalities of laying claim to half of Nolan's salary. Does anyone remember how awful he was alongside Butt or Smith the season we went down? I will never, ever forget. That player is only one injury to Tiote away from making a return to the team. Looked completely off the pace against Stevenage for goodness sake.

 

Hope Pardew is just massaging his ego a bit. I'm worried.

 

Nolan never once played alongside Smith the season we went down, you utter mug.

[Dokko]

[KaKa]

You Nolan fans are just a bunch of fanboys in love with his silly chicken dance and cheeky chappy routine. The guy is a very poor central midfielder. Instead of claiming I'm clueless, how about telling me about the contributions to general play you all seem to see him make on the field that I don't. He is invisible out there the vast majority of the time. No one can dispute this.

 

Does Nolan get up and down the pitch - no, does he win the ball back at least sometimes? - no, does he dictate play and spread the ball about a little bit? - no, he just lurks around the box to nick goals, but he's a freakin' midfielder! The guy is a fraud, and no serious club would have him for free. Despite this great tally of goals he hasn't been linked with anyone of note, while all our other midfielders have been, including the much maligned Jonas. Nolan is hopeless.

[jdckelly]

You Nolan fans are just a bunch of fanboys in love with his silly chicken dance and cheeky chappy routine. The guy is a very poor central midfielder. Instead of claiming I'm clueless, how about telling me about the contributions to general play you all seem to see him make on the field that I don't. He is invisible out there the vast majority of the time. No one can dispute this.

 

Does Nolan get up and down the pitch - no, does he win the ball back at least sometimes? - no, does he dictate play and spread the ball about a little bit? - no, he just lurks around the box to nick goals, but he's a freakin' midfielder! The guy is a fraud, and no serious club would have him for free. Despite this great tally of goals he hasn't been linked with anyone of note, while all our other midfielders have been, including the much maligned Jonas. Nolan is hopeless.

he keeps things going and as for winning the ball at the back, he put in a last min clearance in the last game to stop a goal for bolton

[KaKa]

Will be seriously dissapointed if Nolan is in the first team next season. Disgustingly conditioned athlete, who cannot contribute to any kind of general play, and he is supposed to be a central midfielder?! Just not good enough. The sad thing is if he actually committed himself to getting in decent shape he would likely be a pretty good player, but at the moment his contribution to play is inexcusable.

 

A central midfield goal poacher?! Just doesn't make sense really. Tiote has saved him this season, and should exploire the legalities of laying claim to half of Nolan's salary. Does anyone remember how awful he was alongside Butt or Smith the season we went down? I will never, ever forget. That player is only one injury to Tiote away from making a return to the team. Looked completely off the pace against Stevenage for goodness sake.

 

Hope Pardew is just massaging his ego a bit. I'm worried.

 

Nolan never once played alongside Smith the season we went down, you utter mug.

 

Way to completely miss the point.

 

So Wullie, I noticed you have been quite absent from the Leon Best and Pardew threads, desperately waiting for them to screw up so you can finally get in there? Last I remember you were lambasting Pardew for not starting Ranger ahead of the worthless Best. How's that working out for you? Your the biggest mug on here you dunce. Waiting with baited breath for Ashley to do something wrong so your lifes purpose of moaning can be further fulfilled?

 

Don't worry the forum awards will be coming around again soon, and you can vote me worst poster and get that warm glow of satisfaction that it provides to your pretty sad existence. Chump.

 

 

 

[Yorkie]

Kakartoon.

[KaKa]

Kakartoon.

 

Whatever ... there are some seriously arrogant twats on here.

 

Its okay to disparage certain players, but you say something quite legitimate about one of the favourites, and instead of arguing their own point people get personal. I won't have it. It's nonsense.