TRon Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 Brazil aren't a patch on the teams that used to turn out in their colours. They are more athletic and have plenty of eye catching skills but collectively they lack football intelligence. They get into great positions and make bad choices, either over-dribbling like the Argies aor poor final product. That said they would have won against Paraguay if the ref hadn't been piss poor. He allowed Paraguay to wreck the fluency of the game with their niggling fouls all night. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 Aside from the reds, don't think either was, I thought the ref did ok - could maybe have let it run though but Paraguay showed their tactical smartness (much like Uruguay did) in not allowing it too happen too much and thus stopping Brazil from building up a head of steam except for that period in the 2nd half. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flip Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 More athletic than the team under Dunga? Really? This team for me is less athletic and more skillful, and it certainly doesn't lack football intelligence, it lacks coherency at the moment but I believe time will only help. I'm rather happy we didn't win this tournament as it proves we need to keep on working hard if we're to achieve what we want to in 2014. It's extremely important to not make the same mistake the team in 2006 made and perform well. The tactics implemented by Mano takes time to adapt to, but had it not been for magical saves and costly mistakes this team wouldn't have a conceded a goal during the whole Copa. Give players such as Neymar, Ganso, Pato time to gel, they have the Olympics next year and then the confederations cup to improve their partnership. Put Lucas there and possibly Coutinho if he goes back to his fall form and we have a very good chance of adapting these young guys into this tactic and let them mature. Brazil have 100 steps to climb to win the World Cup and right now they're at the 10th step. They improved a lot against Paraguay and were unlucky not to win. The game has to be more direct, the ball from the defenders to the attackers take way to long, and I believe Lucas Leiva and Andre Santos to be the main villains for this error. Sandro and Marcelo are better players but we have some good players coming through the ranks in Brazil (finally, we hadn't seen any exciting players since Robinho and Diego emerging like Ganso, Neymar, Lucas and possibly Coutinho might). Have my money on Paraguay winning this now, effective team and Uruguay will have problems with such an organized defence. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 None of Paraguay's fouls were that bad but there was persistent fouling throughout the game - shirt tugging, tripping players etc. The same players were doing it four or five times before the ref cautioned them then they eventually got substituted and their replacements did the same thing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flip Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 Aside from the reds, don't think either was, I thought the ref did ok - could maybe have let it run though but Paraguay showed their tactical smartness (much like Uruguay did) in not allowing it too happen too much and thus stopping Brazil from building up a head of steam except for that period in the 2nd half. Vera committed 5 fouls who deserved yellow cards. The fact he wasn't sent off does show the ref was quite out of it. The fact that Lucas and Alcaraz got reds when Valdez and Thiago Silva did much worse things shows that the ref had no idea on what he was doing. Just like the rest of the tournament the refs have been ridonculous, but Paraguay used this and were very smart. The CONMEBOL need to improve couple of things, one is the education of referees and the other is force clubs to improve their grassfields to make South American football more appealing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flip Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 None of Paraguay's fouls were that bad but there was persistent fouling throughout the game - shirt tugging, tripping players etc. The same players were doing it four or five times before the ref cautioned them then they eventually got substituted and their replacements did the same thing. Spot on, but creds to Paraguay for utilizing the leniency of the ref to do that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 More athletic than the team under Dunga? Really? This team for me is less athletic and more skillful, and it certainly doesn't lack football intelligence, it lacks coherency at the moment but I believe time will only help. I'm rather happy we didn't win this tournament as it proves we need to keep on working hard if we're to achieve what we want to in 2014. It's extremely important to not make the same mistake the team in 2006 made and perform well. The tactics implemented by Mano takes time to adapt to, but had it not been for magical saves and costly mistakes this team wouldn't have a conceded a goal during the whole Copa. Give players such as Neymar, Ganso, Pato time to gel, they have the Olympics next year and then the confederations cup to improve their partnership. Put Lucas there and possibly Coutinho if he goes back to his fall form and we have a very good chance of adapting these young guys into this tactic and let them mature. Brazil have 100 steps to climb to win the World Cup and right now they're at the 10th step. They improved a lot against Paraguay and were unlucky not to win. The game has to be more direct, the ball from the defenders to the attackers take way to long, and I believe Lucas Leiva and Andre Santos to be the main villains for this error. Sandro and Marcelo are better players but we have some good players coming through the ranks in Brazil (finally, we hadn't seen any exciting players since Robinho and Diego emerging like Ganso, Neymar, Lucas and possibly Coutinho might). Have my money on Paraguay winning this now, effective team and Uruguay will have problems with such an organized defence. Maybe I'm too harsh because I grew up watching a team with players like Falcao, Socrates and Zico and it's unfair to expect Brazilian teams to be that good as that was the best midfield I've ever seen. But there used to be a time when if Brazil got a free kick it was as good as a penalty. These days they can't even bury the penalties! Long range shooting which was a Brazilian speciality is also ordinary these days. In yesterday's game I saw so many times when after a great bit of dribbling the player would lose possession at the crux or fail to get the pass when the opening was there. Don't get me wrong, Brazil have some great players, they just aren't a special team any more. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Village Idiot Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 None of Paraguay's fouls were that bad but there was persistent fouling throughout the game - shirt tugging, tripping players etc. The same players were doing it four or five times before the ref cautioned them then they eventually got substituted and their replacements did the same thing. They were great at that in their WC tie against us. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 None of Paraguay's fouls were that bad but there was persistent fouling throughout the game - shirt tugging, tripping players etc. The same players were doing it four or five times before the ref cautioned them then they eventually got substituted and their replacements did the same thing. They were great at that in their WC tie against us. It's a dark but yet very skilful art to master. Extremely annoying if you're supporting the other team though Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Snrub Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 It seems this new generation of Brazilian talent is far too whiny and egotistical. Also full of theatrics and sulk when things aren't going to plan. You look at previous greats from just a few years ago like Ronaldo, Ronaldinho, Rivaldo and Kaka. Individually brilliant but also played for the team which is what made them great. I don't see that same kind of bond in this Brazil team. There's a lot of maturing that needs to happen, but they're still very young so time is on their hands. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussiemag Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 Sandro Ramires Hulk Ganso Pato Neymar Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 That's where, from my limited knowledge of, Brazilian club football isn't helping. Refs are so favourable towards the attackers it's untrue & as a rough rule defences aren't so well organised so when faced with these two reversals the pet lips come out as things aren't going these young players way. Something they'll hopefully, for their sake and for the sake of what they might become, learn over time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flip Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 Sandro Ramires Hulk Ganso Pato Neymar Would love to see that, but Pato up top and not Neymar Also some of you judging the young kids is ridiculous. To say they were egoistical is funny, because the reason why we probably didn't win every game is that they looked for a pass and were scared of shooting. Especially Neymar and Ganso, Pato at times too who is used to be so direct was not himself during the Copa except against Venezuela. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 It seems this new generation of Brazilian talent is far too whiny and egotistical. Also full of theatrics and sulk when things aren't going to plan. You look at previous greats from just a few years ago like Ronaldo, Ronaldinho, Rivaldo and Kaka. Individually brilliant but also played for the team which is what made them great. I don't see that same kind of bond in this Brazil team. There's a lot of maturing that needs to happen, but they're still very young so time is on their hands. That's what struck me, individually these guys all look very talented but they hold onto the ball too long which allows defenders to regroup. Maybe it's harsh to judge on yesterday's game though because as VI pointed out Paraguay did the same thing to nullify Spain. They ar good at it but for me they cross the line with their cynical "smaller" fouls. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginola Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 I presume you'll be hoping that Ganso and Neymar both stay at Santos then, Felipao? Both for the domestic game in Brazil, and with regards to them gelling. Obviously they'll need time to gel together as a front four, but having atleast 2 of them playing together at club level has to be beneficial towards that really. Aside from the reds, don't think either was, I thought the ref did ok - could maybe have let it run though but Paraguay showed their tactical smartness (much like Uruguay did) in not allowing it too happen too much and thus stopping Brazil from building up a head of steam except for that period in the 2nd half. Vera committed 5 fouls who deserved yellow cards. The fact he wasn't sent off does show the ref was quite out of it. The fact that Lucas and Alcaraz got reds when Valdez and Thiago Silva did much worse things shows that the ref had no idea on what he was doing. Just like the rest of the tournament the refs have been ridonculous, but Paraguay used this and were very smart. The CONMEBOL need to improve couple of things, one is the education of referees and the other is force clubs to improve their grassfields to make South American football more appealing. They should probably practice penalties too Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flip Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 Ganso picked out passes from another world plenty of times and knew where Neymar was. Its more about how they move up the field with the ball, takes to long, some people aren't used to this tactic, Neymar is very out wide and Ganso is playing very centrally with tight marking. Give them time to learn their roles and so on. They're all young, and compared to the Spanish, Argentinian and English sides are that we have a lot of time as do the Germans. We'll see though another 3 years left till the important stage. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dinho lad Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 it's uruguay's to lose now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flip Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 People tend to forget that Paraguay is a better team than Uruguay to be honest. Much more organized and much more consistent. Just look at the last WC qualifiers and even at the last WC when they only lost to Spain because they missed a penalty. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 I agree with what Felipao is saying, give this set of Brasilian players time to gel, and it's frightening what they could be achieving by 2014. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 They're going to be a problem in 2014. We'll handle them, though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shak Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 I'd just like to formally apologise to the forum for bringing the picture Mike is using as his avatar to his attention. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 Brazil are a lot better than Argentina. They show great potential and just need time and match practice to gel together and you can expect them to be the hot favourite of the 2014 WC. Argentina, on the other hand, is very problematic. They had already use their best players at the moment, have a Messi at his prime, and still play like a 3rd tier national team. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 I'd just like to formally apologise to the forum for bringing the picture Mike is using as his avatar to his attention. That shit is crazy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Away Toon Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Come on Peru, or that's what I just told my girlfriend Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Haris Vuckic Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 I told mine 30 seconds is normal for a bloke. Now she's my wife. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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