Minhosa Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 How much do you want our manager to disagree with our owner? Too much and it leads to chaos and resignation. I'm convinced he's trying to convince Ashley to sanction as many signings as possible, beyond that I don't expect much else. My point is Ian, I want someone with intergrity - not an obvious Ashley whelp. I want a manager who can genuinely fight his corner to protect the good of the team, to demand players in certain positions and to throw the dummy out of the pram when he has to. Pardew's too busy wiping Mikes jizz from his lips to worry about shit like that. The difference is I believe he is trying to convince Ashley to spend when he can. I believe that, you choose to believe something else, the truth is that nobody has a fucking clue. The feeling I get from Pardew is that he's quite a genuine guy, that's it really. I'm not saying he'll be able to make Ashley spend big, but nobody would be able to do that... and if they tried too hard they would have to resign. So, you don't think there's any truth in Golfmags post about the reasons he was appointed? Maybe, I can't remember what the specific claims were TBH. If you mean because he's mates with Llambias and/or Ashley, then I don't think that means he can't perform his job as well as anyone could under their ownership. For me Pardew's reign has been pretty well all positives so far. I still hate the way Hughton was treated but I can't hold that against his replacement. We'll have to disagree on that front - selling AC, not being able to get the owner to invest more than tuppence haypenny to date and his constant bullshit make me think he'll be found out by everyone bar those with rose coloured specs on quite quickly. His inability to get the owner to strengthen where the team needs will cost him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 No manager could have stopped Ashley selling Carroll for that fee (or at least no manager that Ashley would employ). Fair enough, he could have resigned in protest. We could do with strengthening more, and as you (Minhosa) say he will be held responsible for our results. I just don't think our relatively low level of spending is anything to do with him. As for bonuses for reducing the wage bill etc, I can't prove that isn't true but I'm very sceptical that Pardew (or most modern managers) have that level of input into players' contracts and the general financial management side of things. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minhosa Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 No manager could have stopped Ashley selling Carroll for that fee (or at least no manager that Ashley would employ). Fair enough, he could have resigned in protest. We could do with strengthening more, and as you (Minhosa) say he will be held responsible for our results. I just don't think our relatively low level of spending is anything to do with him. As for bonuses for reducing the wage bill etc, I can't prove that isn't true but I'm very sceptical that Pardew (or most modern managers) have that level of input into players' contracts and the general financial management side of things. His job will be turn out whatever team is there after a window and in return he'll get some form of bonus for towing the party line. It's the not the AC sale for the fee, it's the bullshit (from him) about what we would do with the fee and his inability to influence the board. There's a few good reasons why he'll not quit; 1) He's on a cut. 2) He's got no integrity in top level football. 3) He'll never get a gig this big again - he only got this one because he's a sympathiser. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 He was hardly going to say "yes, I've been angling after Chris Hughton's job for weeks". Anyway, surely the club is wise to line up a replacement for Hughton if they know they're going to sack him - would be much worse to fire him and not have any idea who would be coming in. They had known for months they were going to sack him and Alan Pardew is the best they could come up with? Bollocks. His apppintment, and the reasons for it, are obvious. They might have spent more and appointed Jol and still got worse results. Do you really think Jol would want to work for those two? Or any self respecting manager? There's a few good reasons no other cunt was in for the job. My point was he's done okay results wise, there's no guarantee a big name would necessarily have done better. My point was a big name was never in the frame. They could have been offered Wenger, Ferguson and Mourinho and it wouldn't have mattered. They wanted a yes man. As long as the yes man produces results on the pitch I'm not arsed. Ashley is tight with his money but I read an interview with Beardsley in today's chronicle where he was over the moon the reserves were being allowed to go on tour in Holland. Great gesture IMO, at least Ashley's been prepared to spend some money on the younger players. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sicko2ndbest Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 What the hell is Pardew supposed to say. He is the only one of the club hierachy thats talking, and he has the least influence. He has done a very good job up to yet, both on the pitch and in the media and i fail to see how any other manager could have done better without getting his wrists slapped or even worse booted out. What is he supposed to say 'We will not spend all the money the board are tight and Ashley wants his money back'. Whilst probably true, he would get hung drawn and quartered by the board for that and it would only increase negativity around the owner. There is no point winging about what he has to say about finances as he has the least control out of the 3 big guns (MA, DL, AP). Give him a break ffs Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 No manager could have stopped Ashley selling Carroll for that fee (or at least no manager that Ashley would employ). Fair enough, he could have resigned in protest. We could do with strengthening more, and as you (Minhosa) say he will be held responsible for our results. I just don't think our relatively low level of spending is anything to do with him. As for bonuses for reducing the wage bill etc, I can't prove that isn't true but I'm very sceptical that Pardew (or most modern managers) have that level of input into players' contracts and the general financial management side of things. His job will be turn out whatever team is there after a window and in return he'll get some form of bonus for towing the party line. It's the not the AC sale for the fee, it's the bullshit (from him) about what we would do with the fee and his inability to influence the board. There's a few good reasons why he'll not quit; 1) He's on a cut. 2) He's got no integrity in top level football. 3) He'll never get a gig this big again - he only got this one because he's a sympathiser. Any or none of those might be right, I've no idea TBH. This job is certainly a big opportunity for him. I don't really want him to resign though, what would that achieve? More managerial chaos at SJP. While Ashley is in charge we may as well have a manager who will do his best in the conditions he's given to work with. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 What the hell is Pardew supposed to say. He is the only one of the club hierachy thats talking, and he has the least influence. He has done a very good job up to yet, both on the pitch and in the media and i fail to see how any other manager could have done better without getting his wrists slapped or even worse booted out. What is he supposed to say 'We will not spend all the money the board are tight and Ashley wants his money back'. Whilst probably true, he would get hung drawn and quartered by the board for that and it would only increase negativity around the owner. There is no point winging about what he has to say about finances as he has the least control out of the 3 big guns (MA, DL, AP). Give him a break ffs Spot on, people just seem to expect that football managers have some sort of obligation to spell out the exact truth in public. Most of them are spinning a story 80% of time, if not more. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RupertCommunicator Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 I was thinking the other day, if I miraculously got enough money to buy the club outright, would I keep Pardew. Came to the conclusion that there would be a total holocaust of anyone that had taken the shilling from Ashley, incuding Pardew. He is just the face of that hateful twunt upstairs. Never mind debate about our manager, until that fat cockney ballbag is out of our club, we will never get a good, influential manager. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minhosa Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 What the hell is Pardew supposed to say. He is the only one of the club hierachy thats talking, and he has the least influence. He has done a very good job up to yet, both on the pitch and in the media and i fail to see how any other manager could have done better without getting his wrists slapped or even worse booted out. What is he supposed to say 'We will not spend all the money the board are tight and Ashley wants his money back'. Whilst probably true, he would get hung drawn and quartered by the board for that and it would only increase negativity around the owner. There is no point winging about what he has to say about finances as he has the least control out of the 3 big guns (MA, DL, AP). Give him a break ffs Spot on, people just seem to expect that football managers have some sort of obligation to spell out the exact truth in public. Most of them are spinning a story 80% of time, if not more. Doubt it. Anyhow, we'll have to agree to disagree. Clearly coming from very different positions on this but good to have the debate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colocho Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 What the hell is Pardew supposed to say. He is the only one of the club hierachy thats talking, and he has the least influence. He has done a very good job up to yet, both on the pitch and in the media and i fail to see how any other manager could have done better without getting his wrists slapped or even worse booted out. What is he supposed to say 'We will not spend all the money the board are tight and Ashley wants his money back'. Whilst probably true, he would get hung drawn and quartered by the board for that and it would only increase negativity around the owner. There is no point winging about what he has to say about finances as he has the least control out of the 3 big guns (MA, DL, AP). Give him a break ffs Is he your dad? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minhosa Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 What the hell is Pardew supposed to say. He is the only one of the club hierachy thats talking, and he has the least influence. He has done a very good job up to yet, both on the pitch and in the media and i fail to see how any other manager could have done better without getting his wrists slapped or even worse booted out. What is he supposed to say 'We will not spend all the money the board are tight and Ashley wants his money back'. Whilst probably true, he would get hung drawn and quartered by the board for that and it would only increase negativity around the owner. There is no point winging about what he has to say about finances as he has the least control out of the 3 big guns (MA, DL, AP). Give him a break ffs If he can't speak his mind why bother, why lie, why not take the Hughton approach? If finances are out of his control, why commit £35m being spent on the first team? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 What the hell is Pardew supposed to say. He is the only one of the club hierachy thats talking, and he has the least influence. He has done a very good job up to yet, both on the pitch and in the media and i fail to see how any other manager could have done better without getting his wrists slapped or even worse booted out. What is he supposed to say 'We will not spend all the money the board are tight and Ashley wants his money back'. Whilst probably true, he would get hung drawn and quartered by the board for that and it would only increase negativity around the owner. There is no point winging about what he has to say about finances as he has the least control out of the 3 big guns (MA, DL, AP). Give him a break ffs Spot on, people just seem to expect that football managers have some sort of obligation to spell out the exact truth in public. Most of them are spinning a story 80% of time, if not more. Doubt it. Anyhow, we'll have to agree to disagree. Clearly coming from very different positions on this but good to have the debate. Aye, same, interesting point. If it's consolation, I wouldn't be surprised if you turned out to be right! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hughesy Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 What the hell is Pardew supposed to say. He is the only one of the club hierachy thats talking, and he has the least influence. He has done a very good job up to yet, both on the pitch and in the media and i fail to see how any other manager could have done better without getting his wrists slapped or even worse booted out. What is he supposed to say 'We will not spend all the money the board are tight and Ashley wants his money back'. Whilst probably true, he would get hung drawn and quartered by the board for that and it would only increase negativity around the owner. There is no point winging about what he has to say about finances as he has the least control out of the 3 big guns (MA, DL, AP). Give him a break ffs Nailed on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilko Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 reading these last few pages was hard work. Ian W has the patience of a fucking saint. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minhosa Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 What the hell is Pardew supposed to say. He is the only one of the club hierachy thats talking, and he has the least influence. He has done a very good job up to yet, both on the pitch and in the media and i fail to see how any other manager could have done better without getting his wrists slapped or even worse booted out. What is he supposed to say 'We will not spend all the money the board are tight and Ashley wants his money back'. Whilst probably true, he would get hung drawn and quartered by the board for that and it would only increase negativity around the owner. There is no point winging about what he has to say about finances as he has the least control out of the 3 big guns (MA, DL, AP). Give him a break ffs Nailed on. To have so little influence in a workplace when you're (in theory) third in command must be terrible. 'Come and be one of the main men Alan' said Mike. 'Just don't bother me and Dekka with your opinions'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 reading these last few pages was hard work. Ian W has the patience of a fucking saint. It might seem like it, but I've smashed my office to bits. Nah, it's fine, my fault for getting involved in the same old arguments again. Must try harder. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 I have the same Birthday as Pards, unreal Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
morpeth mag Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 Happy 50th Adam Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayson Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 Even if you think hes dodgy Pardews not an idiot, maybe he did have it put into his contract to lower our operating costs etc. But hes a manager, he's the one our results fall back on & he'll be looking to prove himself like anyone to achieve status and recognition in his own right. Hes also now got expectations from the board to finish in the top 10, he's not going to roll over if it effects his ability to do that is he. Even if you dont trust him, part of him has to be working to fight for our corner also as its in his benefit to do so. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TheSummerOf69 Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 Even if you think hes dodgy Pardews not an idiot, maybe he did have it put into his contract to lower our operating costs etc. But hes a manager, he's the one our results fall back on & he'll be looking to prove himself like anyone to achieve status and recognition in his own right. Hes also now got expectations from the board to finish in the top 10, he's not going to roll over if it effects his ability to do that is he. Even if you dont trust him, part of him has to be working to fight for our corner also as its in his benefit to do so. I trust him to fight for his own interests. Just like KK. Unlike KK, or Bobby, or Chris Hughton, or even Gullit (who didn't seek any compensation money), I don't trust him to fight for ours - unless they happen to be the same as his. Just like Dalglish and Souness and Kinnear and Allardyce. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 Even if you think hes dodgy Pardews not an idiot, maybe he did have it put into his contract to lower our operating costs etc. But hes a manager, he's the one our results fall back on & he'll be looking to prove himself like anyone to achieve status and recognition in his own right. Hes also now got expectations from the board to finish in the top 10, he's not going to roll over if it effects his ability to do that is he. Even if you dont trust him, part of him has to be working to fight for our corner also as its in his benefit to do so. I trust him to fight for his own interests. Just like KK. Unlike KK, or Bobby, or Chris Hughton, or even Gullit (who didn't seek any compensation money), I don't trust him to fight for ours - unless they happen to be the same as his. Just like Dalglish and Souness and Kinnear and Allardyce. I honestly don't understand why you put him in that second group rather than the first though. Just because he was appointed by Ashley, or is "mates" with Llambias? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TheSummerOf69 Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 As I said earlier, I felt he was lying from the day he got the job... He also said he'd had no contact about the toon job despite the contrary evidence of his odds at the bookies tumbling while Chris Hughton was still in situ. Plus of course... there's absolutely no way on Earth Andy Carroll's being sold. 100% no way whatsoever. Read my lips. (and all the money will be reinvested when he is) (on a bore hole) (or whatever). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colocho Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 As I said earlier, I felt he was lying from the day he got the job... He also said he'd had no contact about the toon job despite the contrary evidence of his odds at the bookies tumbling while Chris Hughton was still in situ. Plus of course... there's absolutely no way on Earth Andy Carroll's being sold. 100% no way whatsoever. Read my lips. (and all the money will be reinvested when he is) (on a bore hole) (or whatever). GolfMag informed us that Pardew's contract was being drawn up in October... The man is the face for the board of this football club, which continues to remain invinsible and tongueless. Yes, he manages the players - but in the grand scheme of things he is little more than a puppet. Its feels cliched to call him a 'puppet', but it is obvious to most of us that is what he is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGuv Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 And yet i still like him Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colocho Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 And yet i still like him Cos you're a mug. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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