Alan Pardew

[johnnypd]

Erm I don't think anyone is saying HBA is the same sort of player as Mascherano or Tevez. The comparison is more about having very talented players who don't quite fit into the side, or at least, Pardew can't find a way to fit them into the existing side. Kind of situation where he'd have to make difficult decisions about the team and suffer a period of adjustment to make the right change for the longer-term. That's it, nowt about flair or even playing positions, otherwise why mention Mascherano?

 

In the West Ham situation it turned out to be Pardew's fatal error and pretty much got him the sack. I don't think the consequences would be quite so dire here - we'll be fine with or without HBA, but it would be a big missed opportunity to not try to bed him in properly.

 

How would he not manage to fit them in the side?

 

It's fairly easy to see with Ben Arfa but Masc and Tevez?

 

Sorry I don't buy it, it's just a very lazy comparison.

 

Eh?

[ElDiablo]

I'd love someone to actually come up with a viable alternative to Pards.  The silence is deafening.

 

Cue HTT compiling a 3000 word report on how he could come in and successfully succeed Pards. 

[Cajun]

What don't you understand?

 

How would he have struggled to fit those two into the side? As said it seemed more political than 'I have these two, really hard working, really talented players in the side but just how will I fit them in!?'.

 

Given Pardew's whole 'thing' seems to be based on an organised side which will work as a unit and contribute to all round play I don't understand how those 2 can be compared to the Ben Arfa thing.

 

Are we really suggesting that Pardew doesn't like Ben Arfa because he is talented?

 

A response more than 'Eh?' may open up a more fluent discussion

[gbandit]

People want something better all the time Cajun, I apologise if I seem like some idiot but I don't think what I said was nonsense. In my opinion, it's being able to look at things with the long-term in view. I'll happily change my mind immediately if our footballing philosophy changes or we start to dictate games but I felt like we passed the ball round better last season than we have done this year.

 

I think of myself as optimistic and not being someone who asks for too much and rightfully so, you can say I'm asking for too much but if we were playing better football but lower down in the league I promise you that it wouldn't be something I'd be complaining. I'd just be complaining about Perch or Simpson

[Parky]

I'd love someone to actually come up with a viable alternative to Pards.  The silence is deafening.

 

Cue HTT compiling a 3000 word report on how he could come in and successfully succeed Pards. 

 

[Cajun]

People want something better all the time Cajun, I apologise if I seem like some idiot but I don't think what I said was nonsense. In my opinion, it's being able to look at things with the long-term in view. I'll happily change my mind immediately if our footballing philosophy changes or we start to dictate games but I felt like we passed the ball round better last season than we have done this year.

 

I think of myself as optimistic and not being someone who asks for too much and rightfully so, you can say I'm asking for too much but if we were playing better football but lower down in the league I promise you that it wouldn't be something I'd be complaining. I'd just be complaining about Perch or Simpson

 

You're an idiot then, I could understand if we were playing like Stoke.

 

No offence.

[Parky]

With the first 11 we can put out if all are fit then 7th would be very dissapointing, knowing what we know now and from where we are NOW.

[johnnypd]

What don't you understand?

 

How would he have struggled to fit those two into the side? As said it seemed more political than 'I have these two, really hard working, really talented players in the side but just how will I fit them in!?'.

 

Given Pardew's whole 'thing' seems to be based on an organised side which will work as a unit and contribute to all round play I don't understand how those 2 can be compared to the Ben Arfa thing.

 

Are we really suggesting that Pardew doesn't like Ben Arfa because he is talented?

 

A response more than 'Eh?' may open up a more fluent discussion

 

I'm a bit confused by what you're getting at tbh. The comparison between Tevez/Masch and HBA is because Pardew's struggled to fit them into his sides, rather than any like-for-like comparison based on playing style or position. Not sure what else there is to say on the matter. Why would Pardew struggle to fit them two into his side? You'll have to ask him, as that's the reality of what happened and it ultimately cost him his job as the side went on an awful run.

[Cajun]

What don't you understand?

 

How would he have struggled to fit those two into the side? As said it seemed more political than 'I have these two, really hard working, really talented players in the side but just how will I fit them in!?'.

 

Given Pardew's whole 'thing' seems to be based on an organised side which will work as a unit and contribute to all round play I don't understand how those 2 can be compared to the Ben Arfa thing.

 

Are we really suggesting that Pardew doesn't like Ben Arfa because he is talented?

 

A response more than 'Eh?' may open up a more fluent discussion

 

I'm a bit confused by what you're getting at tbh. The comparison between Tevez/Masch and HBA is because Pardew's struggled to fit them into his sides, rather than any like-for-like comparison based on playing style or position. Not sure what else there is to say on the matter. Why would Pardew struggle to fit them two into his side? You'll have to ask him, as that's the reality of what happened and it ultimately cost him his job as the side went on an awful run.

 

2 completely non-comparative situations though. Pardew isn't putting Ben Arfa into the side because he thinks he is a risk. I am certain he wasn't leaving the two at West Ham out for the same reason.

[gbandit]

People want something better all the time Cajun, I apologise if I seem like some idiot but I don't think what I said was nonsense. In my opinion, it's being able to look at things with the long-term in view. I'll happily change my mind immediately if our footballing philosophy changes or we start to dictate games but I felt like we passed the ball round better last season than we have done this year.

 

I think of myself as optimistic and not being someone who asks for too much and rightfully so, you can say I'm asking for too much but if we were playing better football but lower down in the league I promise you that it wouldn't be something I'd be complaining. I'd just be complaining about Perch or Simpson

 

You're an idiot then, I could understand if we were playing like Stoke.

 

No offence.

 

none taken, I recognise my position sounds ridiculous but it doesn't alter it

[Guest Howaythetoon]

I think Shak has come into this thread and dismantled the anti Pardew agenda with one well constructed post. Cap doffed to him.

 

Considering where we are after what's gone on in the last few years...and people are still unhappy? It's genuinely laughable. It's not enough now to just win games....we must win with fabulous football. How many teams achieve this? Nobody will tell me that Manchester City serve up wondrous stuff, but f***ing hell I wish we were as effective.

 

Who is wanting fabulous football as you put it though? No-one. Again, can people fucking read.

 

I've had the anti-Pardew carp thrown at me, the agenda crap and so on.

 

What I have offered is solid and reasoned analysis of our football or rather our inability to play football and how that can hurt us, has hurt us and will continue to hurt us. I have offered a reasonable opinion that if we are to keep improving in the way our recruitment and scouting side of the club is progressing, then we will need to upgrade our manager eventually. That is my opinion which to be fair, I have put across well enough without resorting to "OMG Pardew is crap, sack the cunt".

 

I liken my thoughts to how many felt towards the end of Sir Bobby's time here (although most dared not submit their thoughts) that perhaps we need a change. Admittedly it would be a brave and bold change not guaranteed to work, but I genuninley believe this team and our players require the things Pardew lacks and will never have.

 

I know I'm in a minority but I have spotted certain things which I've expressed in this thread, things that we as a side or club simply cannot gloss over with "well we are sixth man" or "well look where we used to be, we were a Championship side not long ago" or "we started the season unbeaten" or "who else could we get" or "he's not been here long enough", our football is absolutely piss poor and so are our tactics in the main. Team selections are often wrong, negative and in need of changing not long after.

 

Yes we are 6th but performance wise, I'd have us mid-table to just below at best based on what we have served up and thsi group of players are capable of far more. We are sixth because Arsenal and Liverpool in particular are piss poor this season, that top 7 stalwarts like Villa and Everton are likewise. In any other season, we'd be top 10 based on our football.

 

We are 6th and deserve to be 6th but its been painful watching us get there and I guarantee next season even if we were to sign even more better players we'll not reach such heights. Not unless our football, tactics and team selections improve. Can pardew improve those areas? We'll soon find out in our final run of games.

 

If I were a betting man I'd say nope. I bet he starts Taylor or Obertan ahead of Ben Arfa at home to Wolves and it wouldn't surprise me to see Cisse on the bench in place of Shola. We'll probably win it by a single goal margin with a scrappy performance as well.

[Pilko]

"We need to upgrade the manager eventually"

 

He's been in the job just over a year. You have been saying we should bin him at the end of the season, so after a year and a half? A year and a half in which we've had a large player turnover and he's improved league position substantially (barring a huge uncharacteristic slump in the remaining fixtures ofc)?

[Guest BooBoo]

We're only where we are because other teams aren't very good? Genuinely heard it all now.

[johnnypd]

What don't you understand?

 

How would he have struggled to fit those two into the side? As said it seemed more political than 'I have these two, really hard working, really talented players in the side but just how will I fit them in!?'.

 

Given Pardew's whole 'thing' seems to be based on an organised side which will work as a unit and contribute to all round play I don't understand how those 2 can be compared to the Ben Arfa thing.

 

Are we really suggesting that Pardew doesn't like Ben Arfa because he is talented?

 

A response more than 'Eh?' may open up a more fluent discussion

 

I'm a bit confused by what you're getting at tbh. The comparison between Tevez/Masch and HBA is because Pardew's struggled to fit them into his sides, rather than any like-for-like comparison based on playing style or position. Not sure what else there is to say on the matter. Why would Pardew struggle to fit them two into his side? You'll have to ask him, as that's the reality of what happened and it ultimately cost him his job as the side went on an awful run.

 

2 completely non-comparative situations though. Pardew isn't putting Ben Arfa into the side because he thinks he is a risk. I am certain he wasn't leaving the two at West Ham out for the same reason.

 

The situations have a similarity in terms that in both cases there's players far more talented than those in the first XI but Pardew couldn't make the adjustments to fit them into the side. In both cases the players present difficulties - one is a mercurial talent who has been out for a year, missed pre-season and wasn't in the side during early season good form. In the other the players arrived on deadline day speaking no English without Pardew personally identifying their signings. Both testing situations in terms of transitioning the players into the first XI. Situations where he'd have to make difficult decisions about the team and suffer a period of adjustment to make the right change for the longer-term.

 

Perfectly valid to point out a previous situation like that.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

I'd love someone to actually come up with a viable alternative to Pards.  The silence is deafening.

 

Cue HTT compiling a 3000 word report on how he could come in and successfully succeed Pards. 

 

 

Only 2 badges behind him. Not bad for someone who has never played the game like

 

Tactically I'd wipe the floor with him to be honest.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

He has from now and until the end of the season to win me over and get this side playing some kind of football. I'm not expecting Barca levels of football or even Sir Bobby levels, but attacking football and some possession with our best players selected if fit and that includes Ben Arfa. He has no excuses now, the African lads are back, Cabaye is back and there is a European spot to aim for. There are also some very winable games on the horizon, games where we should be performing well in. Lets see if he can deliver because this could set the scene for next season with the promise of even more good players joining. Although we will lose Tiote to fund things no doubt.

 

And then what?

 

I'll probably start a Parky esque HTT vs Pardew thread

[Parky]

I think Shak has come into this thread and dismantled the anti Pardew agenda with one well constructed post. Cap doffed to him.

 

Considering where we are after what's gone on in the last few years...and people are still unhappy? It's genuinely laughable. It's not enough now to just win games....we must win with fabulous football. How many teams achieve this? Nobody will tell me that Manchester City serve up wondrous stuff, but f***ing hell I wish we were as effective.

 

Who is wanting fabulous football as you put it though? No-one. Again, can people fucking read.

 

I've had the anti-Pardew carp thrown at me, the agenda crap and so on.

 

What I have offered is solid and reasoned analysis of our football or rather our inability to play football and how that can hurt us, has hurt us and will continue to hurt us. I have offered a reasonable opinion that if we are to keep improving in the way our recruitment and scouting side of the club is progressing, then we will need to upgrade our manager eventually. That is my opinion which to be fair, I have put across well enough without resorting to "OMG Pardew is crap, sack the cunt".

 

I liken my thoughts to how many felt towards the end of Sir Bobby's time here (although most dared not submit their thoughts) that perhaps we need a change. Admittedly it would be a brave and bold change not guaranteed to work, but I genuninley believe this team and our players require the things Pardew lacks and will never have.

 

I know I'm in a minority but I have spotted certain things which I've expressed in this thread, things that we as a side or club simply cannot gloss over with "well we are sixth man" or "well look where we used to be, we were a Championship side not long ago" or "we started the season unbeaten" or "who else could we get" or "he's not been here long enough", our football is absolutely piss poor and so are our tactics in the main. Team selections are often wrong, negative and in need of changing not long after.

 

Yes we are 6th but performance wise, I'd have us mid-table to just below at best based on what we have served up and thsi group of players are capable of far more. We are sixth because Arsenal and Liverpool in particular are piss poor this season, that top 7 stalwarts like Villa and Everton are likewise. In any other season, we'd be top 10 based on our football.

 

We are 6th and deserve to be 6th but its been painful watching us get there and I guarantee next season even if we were to sign even more better players we'll not reach such heights. Not unless our football, tactics and team selections improve. Can pardew improve those areas? We'll soon find out in our final run of games.

 

If I were a betting man I'd say nope. I bet he starts Taylor or Obertan ahead of Ben Arfa at home to Wolves and it wouldn't surprise me to see Cisse on the bench in place of Shola. We'll probably win it by a single goal margin with a scrappy performance as well.

 

I agree on some of these points and the lack of sustained - cogent football being the main bugbear....But Pards has earnt himself at least another season at the helm. This is the wall you are coming up against in this thread and will continue to do so while our results remain fairm (regardless of the workmanlike football). Most will swallow it while we remain in the top 7.

[Cajun]

"We need to upgrade the manager eventually"

 

He's been in the job just over a year. You have been saying we should bin him at the end of the season, so after a year and a half? A year and a half in which we've had a large player turnover and he's improved league position substantially (barring a huge uncharacteristic slump in the remaining fixtures ofc)?

 

[Parky]

He has from now and until the end of the season to win me over and get this side playing some kind of football. I'm not expecting Barca levels of football or even Sir Bobby levels, but attacking football and some possession with our best players selected if fit and that includes Ben Arfa. He has no excuses now, the African lads are back, Cabaye is back and there is a European spot to aim for. There are also some very winable games on the horizon, games where we should be performing well in. Lets see if he can deliver because this could set the scene for next season with the promise of even more good players joining. Although we will lose Tiote to fund things no doubt.

 

And then what?

 

I'll probably start a Parky esque HTT vs Pardew thread

 

You'll be infringing copyright and all hell will be let loose form Parky Industries. ©  

[Cajun]

I'd love someone to actually come up with a viable alternative to Pards.  The silence is deafening.

 

Cue HTT compiling a 3000 word report on how he could come in and successfully succeed Pards. 

 

 

Only 2 badges behind him. Not bad for someone who has never played the game like

 

Tactically I'd wipe the floor with him to be honest.

 

I think you genuinely believe that too

[Guest Howaythetoon]

I think Shak has come into this thread and dismantled the anti Pardew agenda with one well constructed post. Cap doffed to him.

 

Considering where we are after what's gone on in the last few years...and people are still unhappy? It's genuinely laughable. It's not enough now to just win games....we must win with fabulous football. How many teams achieve this? Nobody will tell me that Manchester City serve up wondrous stuff, but f***ing hell I wish we were as effective.

 

Who is wanting fabulous football as you put it though? No-one. Again, can people f***ing read.

 

I've had the anti-Pardew carp thrown at me, the agenda crap and so on.

 

What I have offered is solid and reasoned analysis of our football or rather our inability to play football and how that can hurt us, has hurt us and will continue to hurt us. I have offered a reasonable opinion that if we are to keep improving in the way our recruitment and scouting side of the club is progressing, then we will need to upgrade our manager eventually. That is my opinion which to be fair, I have put across well enough without resorting to "OMG Pardew is crap, sack the c***".

 

I liken my thoughts to how many felt towards the end of Sir Bobby's time here (although most dared not submit their thoughts) that perhaps we need a change. Admittedly it would be a brave and bold change not guaranteed to work, but I genuninley believe this team and our players require the things Pardew lacks and will never have.

 

I know I'm in a minority but I have spotted certain things which I've expressed in this thread, things that we as a side or club simply cannot gloss over with "well we are sixth man" or "well look where we used to be, we were a Championship side not long ago" or "we started the season unbeaten" or "who else could we get" or "he's not been here long enough", our football is absolutely p*ss poor and so are our tactics in the main. Team selections are often wrong, negative and in need of changing not long after.

 

Yes we are 6th but performance wise, I'd have us mid-table to just below at best based on what we have served up and thsi group of players are capable of far more. We are sixth because Arsenal and Liverpool in particular are p*ss poor this season, that top 7 stalwarts like Villa and Everton are likewise. In any other season, we'd be top 10 based on our football.

 

We are 6th and deserve to be 6th but its been painful watching us get there and I guarantee next season even if we were to sign even more better players we'll not reach such heights. Not unless our football, tactics and team selections improve. Can pardew improve those areas? We'll soon find out in our final run of games.

 

If I were a betting man I'd say nope. I bet he starts Taylor or Obertan ahead of Ben Arfa at home to Wolves and it wouldn't surprise me to see Cisse on the bench in place of Shola. We'll probably win it by a single goal margin with a scrappy performance as well.

 

I agree on some of these points and the lack of sustained - cogent football being the main bugbear....But Pards has earnt himself at least another season at the helm. This is the wall you are coming up against in this thread and will continue to do so while our results remain fairm (regardless of the workmanlike football). Most will swallow it while we remain in the top 7.

 

Well not me, not when we have the best side we've had since Sir Bobby's days with the promise of more quality additions.

 

Its been said before but I look at the likes of Swansea and Nowrich and there is no excuse for the way we play football other than the plainly (or painfully?!) obvious which is that Pardew simply doesn't know how to set his teams up to play possession attacking football despite all the bold claims and insistances which he's talked of delivering pretty much from day one.

[Parky]

I'd love someone to actually come up with a viable alternative to Pards.  The silence is deafening.

 

Cue HTT compiling a 3000 word report on how he could come in and successfully succeed Pards. 

 

 

Only 2 badges behind him. Not bad for someone who has never played the game like

 

Tactically I'd wipe the floor with him to be honest.

 

Let's try and keep it real yeah?

[Cajun]

What don't you understand?

 

How would he have struggled to fit those two into the side? As said it seemed more political than 'I have these two, really hard working, really talented players in the side but just how will I fit them in!?'.

 

Given Pardew's whole 'thing' seems to be based on an organised side which will work as a unit and contribute to all round play I don't understand how those 2 can be compared to the Ben Arfa thing.

 

Are we really suggesting that Pardew doesn't like Ben Arfa because he is talented?

 

A response more than 'Eh?' may open up a more fluent discussion

 

I'm a bit confused by what you're getting at tbh. The comparison between Tevez/Masch and HBA is because Pardew's struggled to fit them into his sides, rather than any like-for-like comparison based on playing style or position. Not sure what else there is to say on the matter. Why would Pardew struggle to fit them two into his side? You'll have to ask him, as that's the reality of what happened and it ultimately cost him his job as the side went on an awful run.

 

2 completely non-comparative situations though. Pardew isn't putting Ben Arfa into the side because he thinks he is a risk. I am certain he wasn't leaving the two at West Ham out for the same reason.

 

The situations have a similarity in terms that in both cases there's players far more talented than those in the first XI but Pardew couldn't make the adjustments to fit them into the side. In both cases the players present difficulties - one is a mercurial talent who has been out for a year, missed pre-season and wasn't in the side during early season good form. In the other the players arrived on deadline day speaking no English without Pardew personally identifying their signings. Both testing situations in terms of transitioning the players into the first XI. Situations where he'd have to make difficult decisions about the team and suffer a period of adjustment to make the right change for the longer-term.

 

Perfectly valid to point out a previous situation like that.

 

Sorry I still completely disagree (and I have voted you most knowledgeable football poster for the last so many years), the situations are only comparable to the point they are all good players. Other than that there is nothing in it than lazy tedious links that help some feel aggrieved for one player they are desperate to succeed as far as they will blame/dismiss everything else.

[Guest BooBoo]

This notion that Norwch and Swansea play great football is tosh btw. Nothing more than plucky upstarts having a go. They'll both be scrapping against relegation next year after the first season adrenaline has worn off.

[Parky]

Has to be said that Pards has got decent performances out of two crap full backs for most of the season (before santon became a starter). This has a lot to do with one of his strengths imo that he is a very good organiser and data gatherer pre-match.