henke Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Firing a manager who has massively overachieved because his football isn't pretty enough would be about the worst thing we could do right now. That's asking for trouble. Watch Ashley make all our back four play blindfolded and change club crest to a chocolate starfish. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Venkman Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Replacing Pardew. If we're still playing football like this in a couple of years then yes, by all means. But give the man a chance to build his own squad and then see what style of football we're playing. The midfield and attack of our strongest eleven when he took over was probably Barton Nolan Tiote Jonas Carroll Shola Can you honestly see that lot playing any sort of slick pass and move football? We were built to be a long ball team when he took over, you can't change that overnight, especially not if you want to have the kind of results we've managed this season. Let's give him some real time before we decide exactly what 'Alan Pardew Football' is, eh? Talk of replacing Pardew does sound daft on the face of it when we are having such a good season, but if I said I didn't have doubts I'd be lying. I don't think he's by instinct a manager who likes playing the passing game. Sure he has given it a go, and he'd probably like to implement that sort of game, but whether he knows how to coach it is another matter. So before anyone starts hopping up and down in fury, I agree he deserves the time to show what he can do, because for all I'm not impressed with the football, he has a lot of other qualities which I like. Do I think another manager could use the same resources better? Yes, over time I think a manager with a bit more nous will be needed, because Pardew's made some horrendous gaffes during what has been an otherwise good season. The Liverpool game will be a key one for me, because our tactics and general play was shambolic when we went to Anfield. If we want to finish in the top 6 we have to compete against our direct competitors not bend the knee and lube our arseholes. This is pretty much where I stand, I think he's done a great job but there's still this nagging doubt that we could be doing a bit better. Personally I'll wait until next season to properly judge, if we strengthen the squad and we're still going out and basing our game on not conceding and relying on a striker having a remarkably good season then i'll be worried. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shak Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 FWIW I share those doubts, the Ben Arfa issue is a big one for me. If he can't find a way to at least try to accommodate a talent like that in his team then it'll be real cause for concern. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFEE Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 I think I'll leave this thread alone for a while, HTT is really starting to grate on me with his anti-Pardew agenda I agree... If someone wants to replace a manager/player I'm a big believer in coming up with an alternative manager/player... I think AP is doing a great job in what has been difficult off-field circumstances... Your'e entitled to your belief, but if someone has a different view why shouldn't they be allowed to express it? It's not like HTT hasn't given fairly comprehensive reasoning why he isn't a Pardew fan. Even if he is wrong (in some people's opinion) what's the harm in expressing his views? Isn't that what these forums are about? Have I missed where HTT (or anyone else wanting to replace AP) has named who he wants in as manager?... I asked the question earlier in the thread?.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ_NUFC Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 FWIW I share those doubts, the Ben Arfa issue is a big one for me. If he can't find a way to at least try to accommodate a talent like that in his team then it'll be real cause for concern. Tevez, Mascherano. Barfa will be off, from the way the situation is going, next season. Unbelievable waste of such talent at our disposal. How to bring out the best in tortured geniuses one has to learn from the top, top managers, like Sir Bobby. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 FWIW I share those doubts, the Ben Arfa issue is a big one for me. If he can't find a way to at least try to accommodate a talent like that in his team then it'll be real cause for concern. Tevez, Mascherano. Barfa will be off, from the way the situation is going, next season. Unbelievable waste of such talent at our disposal. How to bring out the best in tortured geniuses one has to learn from the top, top managers, like Sir Bobby. Yup. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest VaVaVoom Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 For all i think HTT's views to be OTT...There is some truth in what he is saying. We HAVE played shite this season, we HAVE got lucky quite a bit, we HAVE rode our luck in games and AP HAS put out poor starting 11's and got tactics wrong..........BUT...We are 6th ffs. We cant complain with that. HTT...This side is still gelling together and i am pretty confident that the football will improve. Actually...we can play some pretty decent stuff, just in spells no longer than 15-20 mins. Its getting the lads to do that for 70mins week in week out that i want to see. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 He has from now and until the end of the season to win me over and get this side playing some kind of football. I'm not expecting Barca levels of football or even Sir Bobby levels, but attacking football and some possession with our best players selected if fit and that includes Ben Arfa. He has no excuses now, the African lads are back, Cabaye is back and there is a European spot to aim for. There are also some very winable games on the horizon, games where we should be performing well in. Lets see if he can deliver because this could set the scene for next season with the promise of even more good players joining. Although we will lose Tiote to fund things no doubt. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzzieMandias Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 He has from now and until the end of the season to win me over and get this side playing some kind of football. I'm not expecting Barca levels of football or even Sir Bobby levels, but attacking football and some possession with our best players selected if fit and that includes Ben Arfa. He has no excuses now, the African lads are back, Cabaye is back and there is a European spot to aim for. There are also some very winable games on the horizon, games where we should be performing well in. Lets see if he can deliver because this could set the scene for next season with the promise of even more good players joining. Although we will lose Tiote to fund things no doubt. And then what? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilko Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 He has from now and until the end of the season to win me over and get this side playing some kind of football. I bet he's shitting himself. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 The Tevez, Mascherano thing has NOTHING to do with the Ben Arfa situation at all. The main excuse given for Pardew not playing Ben Arfa is because he cannot handle flair players. 1. How in hell is Mascherano a flair player in any way, shape or form? 2. Tevez is an absolutely brilliant attacking player but I wouldn't exactly call him a flair player because when he is on the pitch he works his arse off. That situation is more likely down to the fact Pardew didn't sign/target those players, they just fell into the clubs lap. He was shown to have made a massive mistake not playing them when they went on to perform fantastically at other clubs (or for Tevez when he started getting a chance at West Ham) but it's very, very lazy to compare the two to Ben Arfa. The only comparison being they are very good players but Pardew going with Colo, Ba, Santon, Cabaye, Tiote etc.. rule out any ridiculous thought that Pardew just has something against good players. As for replacing Pardew, have we missed the huge list of failed managers we have had over the last few years (it is quite big)? Hughton was the first successful manager we had since 2004, getting a good manager isn't as easy as some people seem to think it is and to suggest we need to replace him at this time is frankly moronic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BooBoo Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 I think Shak has come into this thread and dismantled the anti Pardew agenda with one well constructed post. Cap doffed to him. Considering where we are after what's gone on in the last few years...and people are still unhappy? It's genuinely laughable. It's not enough now to just win games....we must win with fabulous football. How many teams achieve this? Nobody will tell me that Manchester City serve up wondrous stuff, but fucking hell I wish we were as effective. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbandit Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 He has from now and until the end of the season to win me over and get this side playing some kind of football. I'm not expecting Barca levels of football or even Sir Bobby levels, but attacking football and some possession with our best players selected if fit and that includes Ben Arfa. He has no excuses now, the African lads are back, Cabaye is back and there is a European spot to aim for. There are also some very winable games on the horizon, games where we should be performing well in. Lets see if he can deliver because this could set the scene for next season with the promise of even more good players joining. Although we will lose Tiote to fund things no doubt. I'm on board until December 2012. If we're not playing good football with the players we have at our disposal (and I'm expecting another few exciting summer purchases due to our scouting) then I'm really going to question the situation. I think he's one of the best organisers of players defensively in the league however we can be more than that as a team and I've not seen any signs that we can under Pardew yet. I will however accept that it takes a while to form a team and make them play instinctively together. I'd say that we've rarely looked like a team going forward this season but we've often looked like a team defensively. Let's see a bit more of the former now that we're getting towards the end of the season Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 FWIW I share those doubts, the Ben Arfa issue is a big one for me. If he can't find a way to at least try to accommodate a talent like that in his team then it'll be real cause for concern. Tevez, Mascherano. Barfa will be off, from the way the situation is going, next season. Unbelievable waste of such talent at our disposal. How to bring out the best in tortured geniuses one has to learn from the top, top managers, like Sir Bobby. Feel bad for criticising him but Sir Bobby's treatment of Solano at times was very poor. He wasn't faultless when it came to handling top players. But yeah, Bobby was very good at putting his arm round a players shoulder on the whole. It's harsh to compare anyone to him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 I think Shak has come into this thread and dismantled the anti Pardew agenda with one well constructed post. Cap doffed to him. Considering where we are after what's gone on in the last few years...and people are still unhappy? It's genuinely laughable. It's not enough now to just win games....we must win with fabulous football. How many teams achieve this? Nobody will tell me that Manchester City serve up wondrous stuff, but fucking hell I wish we were as effective. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 The problem with most people is that they only see what's in front of them. HTT is a visionary. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 The problem with most people is that they only see what's in front of them. HTT is a visionary. Agree with the Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnypd Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Erm I don't think anyone is saying HBA is the same sort of player as Mascherano or Tevez. The comparison is more about having very talented players who don't quite fit into the side, or at least, Pardew can't find a way to fit them into the existing side. Kind of situation where he'd have to make difficult decisions about the team and suffer a period of adjustment to make the right change for the longer-term. That's it, nowt about flair or even playing positions, otherwise why mention Mascherano? In the West Ham situation it turned out to be Pardew's fatal error and pretty much got him the sack. I don't think the consequences would be quite so dire here - we'll be fine with or without HBA, but it would be a big missed opportunity to not try to bed him in properly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 I think Shak has come into this thread and dismantled the anti Pardew agenda with one well constructed post. Cap doffed to him. Considering where we are after what's gone on in the last few years...and people are still unhappy? It's genuinely laughable. It's not enough now to just win games....we must win with fabulous football. How many teams achieve this? Nobody will tell me that Manchester City serve up wondrous stuff, but f***ing hell I wish we were as effective. I seem to remember Shak dismantling the anti Souness agenda not too long before Souness was sacked. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilko Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Yeah, if he was wrong about that then he must automatically be wrong about everything else ever. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BooBoo Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnypd Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Yeah, if he was wrong about that then he must automatically be wrong about everything else ever. tbf i'd be inclined to agree with that for anyone who backed Souness. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dinho lad Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 He has from now and until the end of the season to win me over and get this side playing some kind of football. I'm not expecting Barca levels of football or even Sir Bobby levels, but attacking football and some possession with our best players selected if fit and that includes Ben Arfa. He has no excuses now, the African lads are back, Cabaye is back and there is a European spot to aim for. There are also some very winable games on the horizon, games where we should be performing well in. Lets see if he can deliver because this could set the scene for next season with the promise of even more good players joining. Although we will lose Tiote to fund things no doubt. And then what? or he's going to put pressure on him by starting another hitzfeld campaign. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Erm I don't think anyone is saying HBA is the same sort of player as Mascherano or Tevez. The comparison is more about having very talented players who don't quite fit into the side, or at least, Pardew can't find a way to fit them into the existing side. Kind of situation where he'd have to make difficult decisions about the team and suffer a period of adjustment to make the right change for the longer-term. That's it, nowt about flair or even playing positions, otherwise why mention Mascherano? In the West Ham situation it turned out to be Pardew's fatal error and pretty much got him the sack. I don't think the consequences would be quite so dire here - we'll be fine with or without HBA, but it would be a big missed opportunity to not try to bed him in properly. How would he not manage to fit them in the side? It's fairly easy to see with Ben Arfa but Masc and Tevez? Sorry I don't buy it, it's just a very lazy comparison. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbandit Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 I think Shak has come into this thread and dismantled the anti Pardew agenda with one well constructed post. Cap doffed to him. Considering where we are after what's gone on in the last few years...and people are still unhappy? It's genuinely laughable. It's not enough now to just win games....we must win with fabulous football. How many teams achieve this? Nobody will tell me that Manchester City serve up wondrous stuff, but f***ing hell I wish we were as effective. It's not about where we are though. Sixth/Fifth/Seventh, it's meaningless if we're not actually playing to a standard that is at that level because eventually, it'll even out and we'll drop further and further away from this pack. If you're judging Newcastle on a 'league position' basis, then, of course, you'd be a complete idiot to complain. For me, getting into Europe would be amazing just for the buzz of those games but I'd prefer to finish outside of Europe and see us playing good football and seeming like we could really develop rather than finish in Europe but get the feeling that it would capitulate due to the fact that we really haven't shown the quality to go any further I know most/all people don't agree with this but it's a long-term point of view. Of course I want to finish as high as possible in the league but my way of thinking we'll get there is for us to develop as a team, not just scruff and scramble our way in and be out of our depth Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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