Guest Dontooner Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Who are these managers that we could realistically attract who could do a better job than Pards? Would be nice to have the odd name... Without naming any, I think we are in a far better position than a year or two ago as far as that is concerned. I would just like someone who thinks we can do better than Pards to actually name someone. No-one seems to want to do it. Oddly enough. A waste of time, considering how narrow minded you are. What an inventive way to avoid naming someone. You are obviously a Pardew fan or likes his results so far. Why not you give us potential reasons why Pardew is the person that can lead us back up?( consistently in europe) and why there is no one better? Dont use assumptions please Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Fact is that most managers are mediocre - only a select few are anything particularly special. Unless the exceptionally unlikely circumstance arises where one such special manager was out of work, wanted to come here and had no better offers then there's precisely no point going through the ridiculous circus and upheaval of an NUFC management change unless we absolutely have to. We need to give Pardew a few years at least. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David28 Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Fact is that most managers are mediocre - only a select few are anything particularly special. Unless the exceptionally unlikely circumstance arises where one such special manager was out of work, wanted to come here and had no better offers then there's absolutely no point going through the ridiculous circus and upheaval of an NUFC management change unless we absolutely have to. No. There's only one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dontooner Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Who are these managers that we could realistically attract who could do a better job than Pards? Would be nice to have the odd name... Without naming any, I think we are in a far better position than a year or two ago as far as that is concerned. I would just like someone who thinks we can do better than Pards to actually name someone. No-one seems to want to do it. Oddly enough. There are managers out there that would do a better job but how many of them would be willing to work in the structure we have and for quite low wages as well. Think low wages is a myth for recruiting managers, if you want one that has credentials you need to slash the cash. No point in getting value or young managers there is no sell on value. Just that the club might not have progress enough to attract the likes of Van gaal ,Didier Claude Deschamps or even AVB if he gets the boot. Money wages wise ,it would probably 2- 4 million quid a year. And contracts are usually base on two yearly ones. Honestly cant see whey it couldnt be done. Rather than the cost, i think its the reputation but who knows maybe they might be up for a English challenge or they might fancy more money. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Karamoja Bell Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Took over a relegation team newly promoted. However despite this Pardew managed to bring the team within a whisker of 9th spot last season Thats one way of looking at it. Another way of looking at it is that he took over a team firmly semented in the mid-table, and finished 12th. Who is to say that we arent a Robert/Bellamy type signing away from challenging for the top 4? I If only we had such a player...already warming the bench Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnypd Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Fact is that most managers are mediocre - only a select few are anything particularly special. Unless the exceptionally unlikely circumstance arises where one such special manager was out of work, wanted to come here and had no better offers then there's absolutely no point going through the ridiculous circus and upheaval of an NUFC management change unless we absolutely have to. We need to give Pardew a few years at least. Agreed. Obviously the same could've been said about removing Hughton as well. No point changing the manager at the moment. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzzieMandias Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Who are these managers that we could realistically attract who could do a better job than Pards? Would be nice to have the odd name... Ottmar Hitzfeld. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sifu Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 One thing people have to remember is that this is Pardew's first full season. Progress has certainly been made this season like, so really, if we want to continue progressing (and thus achieve success in the long term), time and patience will be needed imo. By that reckoning, Pardew should stay for the long haul. If we get rid of him at the end of the season, it'll almost definitely disrupt the camp (especially when it seems that Pardew is well liked by the players). Stability is definitely the key imho. There's also that saying, "Rome wasn't build in a day". Of course, if things go well on the pitch, Pardew deserves praise and if things go wrong, he deserves some criticism - it's all part of the package as a manager. Sure, there may have been some instances this season when it has looked like he hasn't learned from previous mistakes but what I'm thinking is that he's "playing it safe" so that he is able to maintain our current position. Pre-season didn't go well for us and it almost certainly led to Pardew to throw his initial plans (presumably pass and play, otherwise why would we sign Cabaye?) out the window. I'm confident that he wants us to play the passing game but circumstances have altered this view. Definitely stick with him I say. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dontooner Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Lets leave this to the owners, doesnt really matter if Pardew stays for a couple of seasons or for the next ten years. Their lack of ambition or ambition will show sooner or later. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Karamoja Bell Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 he's "playing it safe" so that he is able to maintain our current position. This is the very tactic I fear will massively backfire. You cant defend your way to a champions league spot if thats what he is going for. We need to actually want to dictate matches. That being said, even aiming at the CL is redicilous and would be such a pipedream that really - where we are sat now - we have absolutely nothing to lose. And that is why I think its such a crying shame to play Ryan Taylor, Obertan etc over Ben arfa. Why not hope for some magic and some screaming 3-pointers in the bag? Pre-season didn't go well for us and it almost certainly led to Pardew to throw his initial plans (presumably pass and play, otherwise why would we sign Cabaye?) out the window. I'm confident that he wants us to play the passing game but circumstances have altered this view. Definitely stick with him I say. Big assumption right there, and Im not sure we can conclude with such a thing based on an interview. Has any of his previous clubs played pass-and-move swansea style? Additionally, Im not sure Pardew was the pivotal part in signing cabaye or any other player for that matter. He may have his preferences in regards to what position he needs strengthened, or key attributes ( ie: pace for instance), but I dont think he has neither a definite say nor can he pin point any spesific player he wants signed. I suspect its a combination of Carr, Dekka, Mike and with some input from Pardew if need be. January window was telling in that respect, we cried out for some defensive strengthening and came out with a striker ( not that I complain ) Bottom line is I think players such as Cabaye - at that price - would have been signed regardless of who our manager was, so I dont think you can say "since he is a pass-and-mover, therefor Pardew wants to play pass-and-move fotball". Thats a bit too easy. What is blatantly obvious though is that Cabaye is deployed way deeper than his initial ( and imo preferred) position and as an advanced centre midfielder, was it 15 goals he smashed in from that position in the 2009/2010 Lille season? He has been a bit of a disappointment for me this season tbh, and I dont think using him as a "everywhere" midfielder is optimal, he is far too talented for that kind of cleaning job. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest andrew Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 One thing people have to remember is that this is Pardew's first full season. Progress has certainly been made this season like, so really, if we want to continue progressing (and thus achieve success in the long term), time and patience will be needed imo. By that reckoning, Pardew should stay for the long haul. If we get rid of him at the end of the season, it'll almost definitely disrupt the camp (especially when it seems that Pardew is well liked by the players). Stability is definitely the key imho. There's also that saying, "Rome wasn't build in a day". Of course, if things go well on the pitch, Pardew deserves praise and if things go wrong, he deserves some criticism - it's all part of the package as a manager. Sure, there may have been some instances this season when it has looked like he hasn't learned from previous mistakes but what I'm thinking is that he's "playing it safe" so that he is able to maintain our current position. Pre-season didn't go well for us and it almost certainly led to Pardew to throw his initial plans (presumably pass and play, otherwise why would we sign Cabaye?) out the window. I'm confident that he wants us to play the passing game but circumstances have altered this view. Definitely stick with him I say. I don't think he personally had owt to do with Cabaye (or Marveaux/Santon). I remember there was a list of players he originally wanted and asked the board for and it was people like Kenwyne Jones, Colin Kazim Richards, Leroy Lita etc. I think it is clear he prefers British based players who he knows are workers and he perceives as less risky. I'm not saying hes a dinosaur manager or whatever but if he was given a budget and was told to find the players himself we'd have a very different team to what was supplied to him. I think it is clear he likes to have two grafting central midfielders and wingers who come inside to make up a 4 man attack when we play the ball up to Best who is usually the target man. Im hoping he'll be able to use his good attention to detail and motivation/man management with better players whose styles are already technical and precise so any problems in his attacking/technical side of his tactics are made up for by the quality and upbringing of player. Imo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Lets leave this to the owners, doesnt really matter if Pardew stays for a couple of seasons or for the next ten years. Their lack of ambition or ambition will show sooner or later. http://www.jeremyriad.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/pooh-depression.gif Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzzieMandias Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Dontooner is the new Colocho. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dontooner Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 I actually think they might want to match the football with the type of players they are bringing in, but hey maybe i am too native. Playing good passing football do make your players more expensive though, always wondered how spurs sell their fringe players for much more than they are. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sifu Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 he's "playing it safe" so that he is able to maintain our current position. This is the very tactic I fear will massively backfire. You cant defend your way to a champions league spot if thats what he is going for. We need to actually want to dictate matches. That being said, even aiming at the CL is redicilous and would be such a pipedream that really - where we are sat now - we have absolutely nothing to lose. And that is why I think its such a crying shame to play Ryan Taylor, Obertan etc over Ben arfa. Why not hope for some magic and some screaming 3-pointers in the bag? Pre-season didn't go well for us and it almost certainly led to Pardew to throw his initial plans (presumably pass and play, otherwise why would we sign Cabaye?) out the window. I'm confident that he wants us to play the passing game but circumstances have altered this view. Definitely stick with him I say. Big assumption right there, and Im not sure we can conclude with such a thing based on an interview. Has any of his previous clubs played pass-and-move swansea style? Additionally, Im not sure Pardew was the pivotal part in signing cabaye or any other player for that matter. He may have his preferences in regards to what position he needs strengthened, or key attributes ( ie: pace for instance), but I dont think he has neither a definite say nor can he pin point any spesific player he wants signed. I suspect its a combination of Carr, Dekka, Mike and with some input from Pardew if need be. January window was telling in that respect, we cried out for some defensive strengthening and came out with a striker ( not that I complain ) Bottom line is I think players such as Cabaye - at that price - would have been signed regardless of who our manager was, so I dont think you can say "since he is a pass-and-mover, therefor Pardew wants to play pass-and-move fotball". Thats a bit too easy. What is blatantly obvious though is that Cabaye is deployed way deeper than his initial ( and imo preferred) position and as an advanced centre midfielder, was it 15 goals he smashed in from that position in the 2009/2010 Lille season? He has been a bit of a disappointment for me this season tbh, and I dont think using him as a "everywhere" midfielder is optimal, he is far too talented for that kind of cleaning job. In terms of transfers, I really do think that Pardew has some input in them but in the end, any potential transfer is really down to the financial constraints in place. I may have made a lot of assumptions in my post but I genuinely do believe that Pardew wants us to play a passing game (or even a mix of direct football and passing it along the deck) - we shall see next season methinks. Regarding Cabaye, he is still adapting to the PL imo but admittedly aye, he is playing deeper than I would like him to most of the time. But I think as soon as the Cabaye-Tiote partnership in CM properly clicks, I reckon Yohan will be more influential in games (I know, it's another assumption but again, I'm confident it will happen). I can understand your concerns that "playing it safe" might end up backfiring but I'm cautiously optimistic that this won't be the case. Though I would like Ben Arfa to start games/get an extended in the side sooner rather than later (please Alan?). One thing we have to do though is to make sure we win against the lesser teams (starting with Wolves next weekend) and push on from there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Karamoja Bell Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Top reply, I agree with most if not all of it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EthiGeordie Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Never ever break when it is working. Only if we stagenet on our position we need to replace him not now. HTT you just don't make any sense. Knowing DL if we lose Pardew he will hire some one like O'leary which is scarey to me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Karamoja Bell Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Challenging HTT to find someone better than Pardew if he is so criticial of him is missing the point imo. Thats not his job. All he is saying is that as far as taking the club forward philosophywise, there are better managers with a more offensive mindset than Pardew out there. And that - that - is very hard to argue with. We might be 6th atm, but we dont play like a 6th placed club no matter how you frame it. I am not sure if - in the long run - percentageball provides the consistency to continueously keep us up there challenging for european spots over a longer period of time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
skryp2nit3 Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Challenging HTT to find someone better than Pardew if he is so criticial of him is missing the point imo. Thats not his job. All he is saying is that as far as taking the club forward philosophywise, there are better managers with a more offensive mindset than Pardew out there. And that - that - is very hard to argue with. We might be 6th atm, but we dont play like a 6th placed club no matter how you frame it. I am not sure if - in the long run - percentageball provides the consistency to continueously keep us up there challenging for european spots over a longer period of time. That argument in flawed because it implied that an offensive minded manager is better than a defensive minded one. Is Arsene Wenger better than Mourinho? Or Roberto Martinez better than AVB? I think the point is there's simply no need to replace Pardew at this point in time and no reason why we should be doing so. We're still making progress on the pitch and off it so unless that changes I say keep Pardew in the job. Continuity seems to be very underrated here and I'd be happier giving Pardew more time to develop a team to his ideologies than go through another season of transition, upheaval and uncertainty for the next couple of years. Too many teams have gone the path of 'we can do better than our current manager', falsely believing that the grass is greener on the other side, and haven't done well since. E.g. Capello at RM, Mourinho at Chelsea, and of course ourselves post-SBR. Should Everton have replaced Moyes after recent disappointments'? Pardew has earned his place at the moment and unless we show no signs of progress next season we should give him our fullest support. As long as results are produced on the pitch and the team is challenging on the right end of the table, we should stick with Pardew until he shows that he can't bring us further as a team. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dontooner Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Challenging HTT to find someone better than Pardew if he is so criticial of him is missing the point imo. Thats not his job. All he is saying is that as far as taking the club forward philosophywise, there are better managers with a more offensive mindset than Pardew out there. And that - that - is very hard to argue with. We might be 6th atm, but we dont play like a 6th placed club no matter how you frame it. I am not sure if - in the long run - percentageball provides the consistency to continueously keep us up there challenging for european spots over a longer period of time. That argument in flawed because it implied that an offensive minded manager is better than a defensive minded one. Is Arsene Wenger better than Mourinho? Or Roberto Martinez better than AVB? I think the point is there's simply no need to replace Pardew at this point in time and no reason why we should be doing so. We're still making progress on the pitch and off it so unless that changes I say keep Pardew in the job. Continuity seems to be very underrated here and I'd be happier giving Pardew more time to develop a team to his ideologies than go through another season of transition, upheaval and uncertainty for the next couple of years. Too many teams have gone the path of 'we can do better than our current manager', falsely believing that the grass is greener on the other side, and haven't done well since. E.g. Capello at RM, Mourinho at Chelsea, and of course ourselves post-SBR. Should Everton have replaced Moyes after recent disappointments'? Pardew has earned his place at the moment and unless we show no signs of progress next season we should give him our fullest support. As long as results are produced on the pitch and the team is challenging on the right end of the table, we should stick with Pardew until he shows that he can't bring us further as a team. Non of those managers mentioned above dont play attacking football, just to a lesser extend of one another. lets see where we ultimately finish at the end of the season, it would give the club a better sense to gauge if we underachieved or overachieved with the resources at hand. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohmelads Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Ludicrous to suggest replacing Pardew given what he's achieved on such a small budget. He steadied the ship quickly after Hughton was sacked where other managers may have sunk and he did it again in the summer after losing 4 of his best performers from that season. He was left in an awful position for a manager after losing Carroll, Nolan, Barton and Enrique with little cash for replacements but he rolled his sleeves up and got on with it and look where we are now. Whatever you think of his tactics and so on you've got to give him credit for that. Many managers have struggled at St James, we have made some awful appointments and brought in inexperienced or clueless managers, but the pressure in this job is higher than all but a few clubs in the country. Pardew has come in and thrived under that pressure in my view and we will not find many managers who can. I do agree with the notion that just because we are 6th now it doesn't mean we can remain top 6 year on year playing football like this, nor does it mean we'll finish top 6 or even top 7 this season. We have to be honest and say we've been a bit lucky in many games this season and top 6 sides tend to dominate a lot more games than we do. All we can do is hope to sneak a euro place this year and with the extra finances and prestige it brings, try and improve the squad and be better next season. Pardew is reluctant to change the status quo but a few defeats on the bounce may quickly change his mind. For now he deserves the benefit of the doubt regarding his team selections but that doesn't mean the doubt isn't there. Truth be told we're not playing that well and I just hope the return of Tiote and a rested Cabaye has a big impact because it needs to. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtype Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 As much as we criticize the media for pandering to the "rather lose 4-3 than win 1-0" stereotype about Newcastle fans, we are certainly very, very demanding as a group of supporters. Can see why so many managers have failed to adjust to life here over the years, and I'd really rather not get rid of the one guy who has. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BooBoo Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Well said. The expectations of a club who two years ago where in the Championship, is ever so slightly ludicrous. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Well said. The expectations of a club who two years ago where in the Championship, is ever so slightly ludicrous. Expectations change. If all we are to base them on is the fact that we were in the second tier two years ago then losing every remaining game this season couldn't be seen as a failure because we've already got enough points to stay up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronky Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 The usual wisdom is to make yourself hard to beat first, and move on from there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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