Yorkie Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 You might say that Pards had a worse set of players to choose from as well I suppose. Does the fitness of the squad have nothing to do with the manager? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 I personally believe that we would have improved under Hughton and would be in a better position than we are now. I think the results we've got under Pardew have been pretty good considering the team has been decimated and we lost our one quality striker. There's no guarantee Hughton would have done better. How do you know he might not have done worse? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colocho Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 Aye, the post was something along the lines of "Look at these stats that show the two managers are almost identical.... on an unrelated note, we could've been in a European place if we hadn't sacked Hughton"... odd. I didn't post the stats to support my argument. Just thought it may be an interesting debate to now they've both had the same amount of games in charge. Its that blasted agenda horse on the gallop again And what agenda may that be? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnypd Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 pardew hasn't justified the change so far, he's done pretty well, but then so did hughton. i'm not sure whether ashley expected a significant boost to results getting pardew in, or if he calculated for an immediate dip in form after getting rid of a manager the players were close to. neither has happened, and really, this is just pardew presiding over the squad dynamics that another boss built up. pardew also benefits from the fact that he has the owner's full backing, and he gets to use this authority and gravitas over the squad, whereas hughton was briefed against, undermined and disrespected frequently, had to deal with speculation and uncertainity as well as not being able to even hire his own bloody staff. so this is really just a bedding in period. the real test starts in the summer and through next season, which will truly show the sort of manager he is. for various reasons a new manager coming in at short notice during a season can have immediate positive or negative effects which aren't really indicative of how they're really going to perform over a longer period - see souness and roeder at nufc for instance, or even houllier at villa for how this can work in a negative manner. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 But you quoted a set of statistics that showed they have almost identical records. You might be right about the morale aspect, time will tell. I think the signs are good that Pardew has managed to maintain the team spirit though. It was certainly a potential opportunity cost, though hopefully it hasn't come to pass. Here's another stat. Since and including Keegan was here the first time, Pardew has the 4th worst win percentage out of 12 managers. His record is worse than Allardyce, Roeder, Souness, Dalglish, Bobby, Keegan the first time, Hughton and Gullit. He beats Shearer, Keegan the 2nd time and Kinnear. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JH Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 I don't think we'd be any better off under Hughton. Would probably be the same. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 I don't think we'd be any better off under Hughton. Would probably be the same. I think we would have been slightly better off based on having kept Routledge and not wasted the transfer window chasing Irelend. I think we might have done better in the transfer window and gained from that and we would have probably had a better FA Cup run. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Segun Oluwaniyi Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 Another interest fact, Mick: Pardew took over midseason with a newly promoted team that had most recently been thrashed by another newly promoted team. Despite this situation and losing his most high profile player a month into his tenure, he has picked up point at a rate better than his predecessor which would avoid relegation in any season. What is Hughton's win percentage during his several spells as manager in the Premiership, btw? Post this instead of ones inflated by lower division victories. This club has not spent a dime on new players since Pardew arrived here. The only player brought in under Pardew that has featured in a match is Shefki Kuqi. I do not really know what you are talking about. I doubt it was part of Pardew's master plan to sell Carroll. Get your head out of the sand, we spent most of the transfer window chasing an injured Villa player while either selling some of our players or sending them out on loan. The fact that only Kuqi has played is a joke and you don't seem able to see it. The club spent the transfer window doing nothing because it had no money. Ireland was grabbed on an opportunistic gamble. We then sold our best player on deadline day (obviously not Pardew's decision) and brought in an unemployed person to fill the void. If it was someone uyou liked you would throwing stones at Ashley. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conjo Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 But you quoted a set of statistics that showed they have almost identical records. You might be right about the morale aspect, time will tell. I think the signs are good that Pardew has managed to maintain the team spirit though. It was certainly a potential opportunity cost, though hopefully it hasn't come to pass. Here's another stat. Since and including Keegan was here the first time, Pardew has the 4th worst win percentage out of 12 managers. His record is worse than Allardyce, Roeder, Souness, Dalglish, Bobby, Keegan the first time, Hughton and Gullit. He beats Shearer, Keegan the 2nd time and Kinnear. The stats does, however, not include squad quality and level of opposition. Im not really into this discussion, as I'd rather wait until the summer and see what happens, but thought I'd just point it out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinmk Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 I think this season we would have been slightly better off than we are now because of the reasons Mick gives. I think in the long run we were onto a winner with Hughton though as I have said before I thought he was the perfect kind of guy to manage NUFC. I also think Pardew will probably go tits up at some point next season and we can't really judge him from this one. I'll be delighted if he proves me wrong next season though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 Another interest fact, Mick: Pardew took over midseason with a newly promoted team that had most recently been thrashed by another newly promoted team. Despite this situation and losing his most high profile player a month into his tenure, he has picked up point at a rate better than his predecessor which would avoid relegation in any season. What is Hughton's win percentage during his several spells as manager in the Premiership, btw? Post this instead of ones inflated by lower division victories. The club spent the transfer window doing nothing because it had no money. Ireland was grabbed on an opportunistic gamble. We then sold our best player on deadline day (obviously not Pardew's decision) and brought in an unemployed person to fill the void. If it was someone uyou liked you would throwing stones at Ashley. The team had lost away to West Brom, you seem to forget that we'd also won away to Arsenal and Everton and hammered the team that relegated us and we thrashed the mackems. You also seem to overlook Pardew being allegedly lined up as least a month before he was appointed so the West Brom game was an excuse, not a reason. How do you know the club had no money? We signed Ben Arfa when we didn't have to, we could have spent that money on somebody who could have made a difference this season, instead of next season. As for Hughton's win percentage, this season his record is better than Pardew's when Cup games are taken into account. Hughton's win percentage here is better than anything Pardew has ever done at any club in any division. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
STM Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 Particularly impressed with his man management of Best. Never saw Best having a good spell. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 Another interest fact, Mick: Pardew took over midseason with a newly promoted team that had most recently been thrashed by another newly promoted team. Despite this situation and losing his most high profile player a month into his tenure, he has picked up point at a rate better than his predecessor which would avoid relegation in any season. What is Hughton's win percentage during his several spells as manager in the Premiership, btw? Post this instead of ones inflated by lower division victories. The club spent the transfer window doing nothing because it had no money. Ireland was grabbed on an opportunistic gamble. We then sold our best player on deadline day (obviously not Pardew's decision) and brought in an unemployed person to fill the void. If it was someone uyou liked you would throwing stones at Ashley. The team had lost away to West Brom, you seem to forget that we'd also won away to Arsenal and Everton and hammered the team that relegated us and we thrashed the mackems. You also seem to overlook Pardew being allegedly lined up as least a month before he was appointed so the West Brom game was an excuse, not a reason. How do you know the club had no money? We signed Ben Arfa when we didn't have to, we could have spent that money on somebody who could have made a difference this season, instead of next season. As for Hughton's win percentage, this season his record is better than Pardew's when Cup games are taken into account. Hughton's win percentage here is better than anything Pardew has ever done at any club in any division. I don't remember you defending Hughton so much when he was actually boss mick Pointless discussion at this stage for me. I'm also going to wait to see what Pardew does with the money he'll have to spend. Hughton did well in retrospect. He got slated for buying Best but he has turned out to be good value. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 I don't remember you defending Hughton so much when he was actually boss mick Pointless discussion at this stage for me. I'm also going to wait to see what Pardew does with the money he'll have to spend. Hughton did well in retrospect. He got slated for buying Best but he has turned out to be good value. I thought Hughton had deserved at least this season but he wasn't perfect, that doesn't alter the records of him and Pardew. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mantis Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 The point fort me isn't about whether hughton would have done better, but more that if he was to be replaced, the new manager should have been someone better than pardew. And for people to say the results under pardew have been pretty good,that's just daft Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superior Acuña Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 The point fort me isn't about whether hughton would have done better, but more that if he was to be replaced, the new manager should have been someone better than pardew. And for people to say the results under pardew have been pretty good,that's just daft I think they've been pretty good -okay. That isn't to say the sacking of Hughton was justified - I don't judge Pardew on that basis, it's pointless. I judge the board on that basis. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 What Hughton has in his favour is a brilliant promotion from the Championship and some great progress in terms of team spirit. Time will tell whether Pardew will achieve anything decent with us, I hope he does but the discussion is a bit pointless at this stage of his reign. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 Is anyone else a bit worried with some of his team selections of late? S.taylor 3 games he's shoehorned him or Campbell in for no reason and 3 defeats to opposition that have been equivilent standard to us this season is no coincidence. He can't learn quickly enough to stop dicking about with the back 4 IMO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Venkman Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 Is anyone else a bit worried with some of his team selections of late? S.taylor 3 games he's shoehorned him or Campbell in for no reason and 3 defeats to opposition that have been equivilent standard to us this season is no coincidence. He can't learn quickly enough to stop dicking about with the back 4 IMO. the worst thing is thats what he started off his career here doing, its not like its a recent development Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 Is anyone else a bit worried with some of his team selections of late? S.taylor 3 games he's shoehorned him or Campbell in for no reason and 3 defeats to opposition that have been equivilent standard to us this season is no coincidence. He can't learn quickly enough to stop dicking about with the back 4 IMO. the worst thing is thats what he started off his career here doing, its not like its a recent development Didn't have much choice picking them two at the start with Colo and Williamson suspended tbh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveMc Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 And even last week I could see why he did what he did. Would be labelled a tactical genius if it worked. Just happned it didn't......I thought we were going down following West Brom away (the most abject performance I'd seen us put in in years) so staying up and kicking on next year would be a result Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BlacknWhiteArmy Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 And even last week I could see why he did what he did. Would be labelled a tactical genius if it worked. Just happned it didn't......I thought we were going down following West Brom away (the most abject performance I'd seen us put in in years) so staying up and kicking on next year would be a result That West Brom game was awful. We showed absolutely no intent from the kick off, we just sat back. No closing down, no pressing, Guthrie and Routledge completely bottled it. Ameobi was useless. Sol just stood there appealing for an offside for their goals. Horrible game that was. I didn't think we'd go down though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisMcQuillan Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 Is anyone else a bit worried with some of his team selections of late? S.taylor 3 games he's shoehorned him or Campbell in for no reason and 3 defeats to opposition that have been equivilent standard to us this season is no coincidence. He can't learn quickly enough to stop dicking about with the back 4 IMO. I can sort of understand him putting S. Taylor in for Coloccini when Colo moved to midfield, simply cause there was no one else available. But as you say, hopefully it never happens again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 Is anyone else a bit worried with some of his team selections of late? S.taylor 3 games he's shoehorned him or Campbell in for no reason and 3 defeats to opposition that have been equivilent standard to us this season is no coincidence. He can't learn quickly enough to stop dicking about with the back 4 IMO. I can sort of understand him putting S. Taylor in for Coloccini when Colo moved to midfield, simply cause there was no one else available. But as you say, hopefully it never happens again. I understand his reasoning too but for me, and I know I've said this fuck loads, but you just don't change a settled back four. More or less every team thats been successful has had a settled back 4 and I know we're only relatively successful this season but a settled back four is a large back of it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveMc Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 Is anyone else a bit worried with some of his team selections of late? S.taylor 3 games he's shoehorned him or Campbell in for no reason and 3 defeats to opposition that have been equivilent standard to us this season is no coincidence. He can't learn quickly enough to stop dicking about with the back 4 IMO. I can sort of understand him putting S. Taylor in for Coloccini when Colo moved to midfield, simply cause there was no one else available. But as you say, hopefully it never happens again. I understand his reasoning too but for me, and I know I've said this f*** loads, but you just don't change a settled back four. More or less every team thats been successful has had a settled back 4 and I know we're only relatively successful this season but a settled back four is a large back of it. True, but they were pretty extreme circumstances. 3 suspended, 3 injured and well off in central defence. I had me doubts, but thought it worth the risk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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