Guest BooBoo Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 The way people go on, you'd think we played football a la Bobby Gould's Wimbledon side. Do many teams in the PL really play great football? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 I think Shak has come into this thread and dismantled the anti Pardew agenda with one well constructed post. Cap doffed to him. Considering where we are after what's gone on in the last few years...and people are still unhappy? It's genuinely laughable. It's not enough now to just win games....we must win with fabulous football. How many teams achieve this? Nobody will tell me that Manchester City serve up wondrous stuff, but f***ing hell I wish we were as effective. I seem to remember Shak dismantling the anti Souness agenda not too long before Souness was sacked. ....and on that bomb! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 The way people go on, you'd think we played football a la Bobby Gould's Wimbledon side. Do many teams in the PL really play great football? That's why we're 6th. Zing! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 I think Shak has come into this thread and dismantled the anti Pardew agenda with one well constructed post. Cap doffed to him. Considering where we are after what's gone on in the last few years...and people are still unhappy? It's genuinely laughable. It's not enough now to just win games....we must win with fabulous football. How many teams achieve this? Nobody will tell me that Manchester City serve up wondrous stuff, but f***ing hell I wish we were as effective. It's not about where we are though. Sixth/Fifth/Seventh, it's meaningless if we're not actually playing to a standard that is at that level because eventually, it'll even out and we'll drop further and further away from this pack. If you're judging Newcastle on a 'league position' basis, then, of course, you'd be a complete idiot to complain. For me, getting into Europe would be amazing just for the buzz of those games but I'd prefer to finish outside of Europe and see us playing good football and seeming like we could really develop rather than finish in Europe but get the feeling that it would capitulate due to the fact that we really haven't shown the quality to go any further I know most/all people don't agree with this but it's a long-term point of view. Of course I want to finish as high as possible in the league but my way of thinking we'll get there is for us to develop as a team, not just scruff and scramble our way in and be out of our depth Sorry but that's complete nonsense to me. How would finishing 6th and playing 'scruff and scramble' football be more promising that finishing 10th but playing more exciting football? There is a saying, you can't please all of the people, all of the time. Should be changed to, you will never please some people, no matter what you do. All for ambition but some will never be happy. If we finish 4th they will want 4th with better football. If we finish 8th with good football they will want to finish 4th. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilko Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 There is a saying, you can't please all of the people, all of the time. I think you're getting mixed up with that other saying, 'you can't please HTT. Ever.' Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 There is a saying, you can't please all of the people, all of the time. I think you're getting mixed up with that other saying, 'you can't please HTT. Ever.' 'Unless you are a German manager who likes golf and 87 page brochures, or someone who seems to be against popular opinion' Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hughesy Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 I'd love someone to actually come up with a viable alternative to Pards. The silence is deafening. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 I'd love someone to actually come up with a viable alternative to Pards. The silence is deafening. They won't but it 'isn't their job'. There job is just to moan about anything that isn't perfect. HBA being the easiest issue. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnypd Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Erm I don't think anyone is saying HBA is the same sort of player as Mascherano or Tevez. The comparison is more about having very talented players who don't quite fit into the side, or at least, Pardew can't find a way to fit them into the existing side. Kind of situation where he'd have to make difficult decisions about the team and suffer a period of adjustment to make the right change for the longer-term. That's it, nowt about flair or even playing positions, otherwise why mention Mascherano? In the West Ham situation it turned out to be Pardew's fatal error and pretty much got him the sack. I don't think the consequences would be quite so dire here - we'll be fine with or without HBA, but it would be a big missed opportunity to not try to bed him in properly. How would he not manage to fit them in the side? It's fairly easy to see with Ben Arfa but Masc and Tevez? Sorry I don't buy it, it's just a very lazy comparison. Eh? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElDiablo Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 I'd love someone to actually come up with a viable alternative to Pards. The silence is deafening. Cue HTT compiling a 3000 word report on how he could come in and successfully succeed Pards. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 What don't you understand? How would he have struggled to fit those two into the side? As said it seemed more political than 'I have these two, really hard working, really talented players in the side but just how will I fit them in!?'. Given Pardew's whole 'thing' seems to be based on an organised side which will work as a unit and contribute to all round play I don't understand how those 2 can be compared to the Ben Arfa thing. Are we really suggesting that Pardew doesn't like Ben Arfa because he is talented? A response more than 'Eh?' may open up a more fluent discussion Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbandit Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 People want something better all the time Cajun, I apologise if I seem like some idiot but I don't think what I said was nonsense. In my opinion, it's being able to look at things with the long-term in view. I'll happily change my mind immediately if our footballing philosophy changes or we start to dictate games but I felt like we passed the ball round better last season than we have done this year. I think of myself as optimistic and not being someone who asks for too much and rightfully so, you can say I'm asking for too much but if we were playing better football but lower down in the league I promise you that it wouldn't be something I'd be complaining. I'd just be complaining about Perch or Simpson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 I'd love someone to actually come up with a viable alternative to Pards. The silence is deafening. Cue HTT compiling a 3000 word report on how he could come in and successfully succeed Pards. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 People want something better all the time Cajun, I apologise if I seem like some idiot but I don't think what I said was nonsense. In my opinion, it's being able to look at things with the long-term in view. I'll happily change my mind immediately if our footballing philosophy changes or we start to dictate games but I felt like we passed the ball round better last season than we have done this year. I think of myself as optimistic and not being someone who asks for too much and rightfully so, you can say I'm asking for too much but if we were playing better football but lower down in the league I promise you that it wouldn't be something I'd be complaining. I'd just be complaining about Perch or Simpson You're an idiot then, I could understand if we were playing like Stoke. No offence. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 With the first 11 we can put out if all are fit then 7th would be very dissapointing, knowing what we know now and from where we are NOW. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnypd Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 What don't you understand? How would he have struggled to fit those two into the side? As said it seemed more political than 'I have these two, really hard working, really talented players in the side but just how will I fit them in!?'. Given Pardew's whole 'thing' seems to be based on an organised side which will work as a unit and contribute to all round play I don't understand how those 2 can be compared to the Ben Arfa thing. Are we really suggesting that Pardew doesn't like Ben Arfa because he is talented? A response more than 'Eh?' may open up a more fluent discussion I'm a bit confused by what you're getting at tbh. The comparison between Tevez/Masch and HBA is because Pardew's struggled to fit them into his sides, rather than any like-for-like comparison based on playing style or position. Not sure what else there is to say on the matter. Why would Pardew struggle to fit them two into his side? You'll have to ask him, as that's the reality of what happened and it ultimately cost him his job as the side went on an awful run. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 What don't you understand? How would he have struggled to fit those two into the side? As said it seemed more political than 'I have these two, really hard working, really talented players in the side but just how will I fit them in!?'. Given Pardew's whole 'thing' seems to be based on an organised side which will work as a unit and contribute to all round play I don't understand how those 2 can be compared to the Ben Arfa thing. Are we really suggesting that Pardew doesn't like Ben Arfa because he is talented? A response more than 'Eh?' may open up a more fluent discussion I'm a bit confused by what you're getting at tbh. The comparison between Tevez/Masch and HBA is because Pardew's struggled to fit them into his sides, rather than any like-for-like comparison based on playing style or position. Not sure what else there is to say on the matter. Why would Pardew struggle to fit them two into his side? You'll have to ask him, as that's the reality of what happened and it ultimately cost him his job as the side went on an awful run. 2 completely non-comparative situations though. Pardew isn't putting Ben Arfa into the side because he thinks he is a risk. I am certain he wasn't leaving the two at West Ham out for the same reason. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbandit Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 People want something better all the time Cajun, I apologise if I seem like some idiot but I don't think what I said was nonsense. In my opinion, it's being able to look at things with the long-term in view. I'll happily change my mind immediately if our footballing philosophy changes or we start to dictate games but I felt like we passed the ball round better last season than we have done this year. I think of myself as optimistic and not being someone who asks for too much and rightfully so, you can say I'm asking for too much but if we were playing better football but lower down in the league I promise you that it wouldn't be something I'd be complaining. I'd just be complaining about Perch or Simpson You're an idiot then, I could understand if we were playing like Stoke. No offence. none taken, I recognise my position sounds ridiculous but it doesn't alter it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 I think Shak has come into this thread and dismantled the anti Pardew agenda with one well constructed post. Cap doffed to him. Considering where we are after what's gone on in the last few years...and people are still unhappy? It's genuinely laughable. It's not enough now to just win games....we must win with fabulous football. How many teams achieve this? Nobody will tell me that Manchester City serve up wondrous stuff, but f***ing hell I wish we were as effective. Who is wanting fabulous football as you put it though? No-one. Again, can people fucking read. I've had the anti-Pardew carp thrown at me, the agenda crap and so on. What I have offered is solid and reasoned analysis of our football or rather our inability to play football and how that can hurt us, has hurt us and will continue to hurt us. I have offered a reasonable opinion that if we are to keep improving in the way our recruitment and scouting side of the club is progressing, then we will need to upgrade our manager eventually. That is my opinion which to be fair, I have put across well enough without resorting to "OMG Pardew is crap, sack the cunt". I liken my thoughts to how many felt towards the end of Sir Bobby's time here (although most dared not submit their thoughts) that perhaps we need a change. Admittedly it would be a brave and bold change not guaranteed to work, but I genuninley believe this team and our players require the things Pardew lacks and will never have. I know I'm in a minority but I have spotted certain things which I've expressed in this thread, things that we as a side or club simply cannot gloss over with "well we are sixth man" or "well look where we used to be, we were a Championship side not long ago" or "we started the season unbeaten" or "who else could we get" or "he's not been here long enough", our football is absolutely piss poor and so are our tactics in the main. Team selections are often wrong, negative and in need of changing not long after. Yes we are 6th but performance wise, I'd have us mid-table to just below at best based on what we have served up and thsi group of players are capable of far more. We are sixth because Arsenal and Liverpool in particular are piss poor this season, that top 7 stalwarts like Villa and Everton are likewise. In any other season, we'd be top 10 based on our football. We are 6th and deserve to be 6th but its been painful watching us get there and I guarantee next season even if we were to sign even more better players we'll not reach such heights. Not unless our football, tactics and team selections improve. Can pardew improve those areas? We'll soon find out in our final run of games. If I were a betting man I'd say nope. I bet he starts Taylor or Obertan ahead of Ben Arfa at home to Wolves and it wouldn't surprise me to see Cisse on the bench in place of Shola. We'll probably win it by a single goal margin with a scrappy performance as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilko Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 "We need to upgrade the manager eventually" He's been in the job just over a year. You have been saying we should bin him at the end of the season, so after a year and a half? A year and a half in which we've had a large player turnover and he's improved league position substantially (barring a huge uncharacteristic slump in the remaining fixtures ofc)? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BooBoo Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 We're only where we are because other teams aren't very good? Genuinely heard it all now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnypd Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 What don't you understand? How would he have struggled to fit those two into the side? As said it seemed more political than 'I have these two, really hard working, really talented players in the side but just how will I fit them in!?'. Given Pardew's whole 'thing' seems to be based on an organised side which will work as a unit and contribute to all round play I don't understand how those 2 can be compared to the Ben Arfa thing. Are we really suggesting that Pardew doesn't like Ben Arfa because he is talented? A response more than 'Eh?' may open up a more fluent discussion I'm a bit confused by what you're getting at tbh. The comparison between Tevez/Masch and HBA is because Pardew's struggled to fit them into his sides, rather than any like-for-like comparison based on playing style or position. Not sure what else there is to say on the matter. Why would Pardew struggle to fit them two into his side? You'll have to ask him, as that's the reality of what happened and it ultimately cost him his job as the side went on an awful run. 2 completely non-comparative situations though. Pardew isn't putting Ben Arfa into the side because he thinks he is a risk. I am certain he wasn't leaving the two at West Ham out for the same reason. The situations have a similarity in terms that in both cases there's players far more talented than those in the first XI but Pardew couldn't make the adjustments to fit them into the side. In both cases the players present difficulties - one is a mercurial talent who has been out for a year, missed pre-season and wasn't in the side during early season good form. In the other the players arrived on deadline day speaking no English without Pardew personally identifying their signings. Both testing situations in terms of transitioning the players into the first XI. Situations where he'd have to make difficult decisions about the team and suffer a period of adjustment to make the right change for the longer-term. Perfectly valid to point out a previous situation like that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 I'd love someone to actually come up with a viable alternative to Pards. The silence is deafening. Cue HTT compiling a 3000 word report on how he could come in and successfully succeed Pards. Only 2 badges behind him. Not bad for someone who has never played the game like Tactically I'd wipe the floor with him to be honest. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 He has from now and until the end of the season to win me over and get this side playing some kind of football. I'm not expecting Barca levels of football or even Sir Bobby levels, but attacking football and some possession with our best players selected if fit and that includes Ben Arfa. He has no excuses now, the African lads are back, Cabaye is back and there is a European spot to aim for. There are also some very winable games on the horizon, games where we should be performing well in. Lets see if he can deliver because this could set the scene for next season with the promise of even more good players joining. Although we will lose Tiote to fund things no doubt. And then what? I'll probably start a Parky esque HTT vs Pardew thread Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 I think Shak has come into this thread and dismantled the anti Pardew agenda with one well constructed post. Cap doffed to him. Considering where we are after what's gone on in the last few years...and people are still unhappy? It's genuinely laughable. It's not enough now to just win games....we must win with fabulous football. How many teams achieve this? Nobody will tell me that Manchester City serve up wondrous stuff, but f***ing hell I wish we were as effective. Who is wanting fabulous football as you put it though? No-one. Again, can people fucking read. I've had the anti-Pardew carp thrown at me, the agenda crap and so on. What I have offered is solid and reasoned analysis of our football or rather our inability to play football and how that can hurt us, has hurt us and will continue to hurt us. I have offered a reasonable opinion that if we are to keep improving in the way our recruitment and scouting side of the club is progressing, then we will need to upgrade our manager eventually. That is my opinion which to be fair, I have put across well enough without resorting to "OMG Pardew is crap, sack the cunt". I liken my thoughts to how many felt towards the end of Sir Bobby's time here (although most dared not submit their thoughts) that perhaps we need a change. Admittedly it would be a brave and bold change not guaranteed to work, but I genuninley believe this team and our players require the things Pardew lacks and will never have. I know I'm in a minority but I have spotted certain things which I've expressed in this thread, things that we as a side or club simply cannot gloss over with "well we are sixth man" or "well look where we used to be, we were a Championship side not long ago" or "we started the season unbeaten" or "who else could we get" or "he's not been here long enough", our football is absolutely piss poor and so are our tactics in the main. Team selections are often wrong, negative and in need of changing not long after. Yes we are 6th but performance wise, I'd have us mid-table to just below at best based on what we have served up and thsi group of players are capable of far more. We are sixth because Arsenal and Liverpool in particular are piss poor this season, that top 7 stalwarts like Villa and Everton are likewise. In any other season, we'd be top 10 based on our football. We are 6th and deserve to be 6th but its been painful watching us get there and I guarantee next season even if we were to sign even more better players we'll not reach such heights. Not unless our football, tactics and team selections improve. Can pardew improve those areas? We'll soon find out in our final run of games. If I were a betting man I'd say nope. I bet he starts Taylor or Obertan ahead of Ben Arfa at home to Wolves and it wouldn't surprise me to see Cisse on the bench in place of Shola. We'll probably win it by a single goal margin with a scrappy performance as well. I agree on some of these points and the lack of sustained - cogent football being the main bugbear....But Pards has earnt himself at least another season at the helm. This is the wall you are coming up against in this thread and will continue to do so while our results remain fairm (regardless of the workmanlike football). Most will swallow it while we remain in the top 7. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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