Alan Pardew

[Minhosa]

I want to know where all these people who are now saying 6th is a bare minimum for our league position were at the beginning of the season. Because I don't remember there being many ppl, if any, who said that. And that was with the squad as it now is, bar Cisse.

 

Expectations have shot through the roof as a result of our start.

 

We do not have s squad close to the top 6. So to be where we are is a great achievement.

 

 

Well that and the fact no bugger else is anywhere near challenging.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

I want to know where all these people who are now saying 6th is a bare minimum for our league position were at the beginning of the season. Because I don't remember there being many ppl, if any, who said that. And that was with the squad as it now is, bar Cisse.

 

Expectations have shot through the roof as a result of our start.

 

We do not have s squad close to the top 6. So to be where we are is a great achievement.

 

 

Exactly, it's like if we were fourth now people would be saying the minimum is to win the league or something. I can't recall anyone predicting Europe or anywhere near it at the start of the season. And when we went up to sixth I don't think many people were saying it wasn't a big achievement because it was the minimum we should expect.

 

People need to think about what we were expecting at the start of the season, it's been a great campaign so far. 

[Si]

Seriously why the f*** does everyone keep going on about Norwich, if we qualify for the Champions League and Norwich finish 6th does that mean we should have won the league.

 

 

 

Obviously not, however it does prove that this - massive over-achieving - because we were in the Championship two seasons ago is a crap and utter ridiculous argument.

 

Lets just see where they are next season before we start jumping to those conclusions, still a long way to go yet.

 

?

 

Well we might be relegated next season, whats your point?

 

My point is they havent achieved anything yet, so a bit redundant in using them as a comparison.

[johnnypd]

I want to know where all these people who are now saying 6th is a bare minimum for our league position were at the beginning of the season. Because I don't remember there being many ppl, if any, who said that. And that was with the squad as it now is, bar Cisse.

 

Expectations have shot through the roof as a result of our start.

 

We do not have s squad close to the top 6. So to be where we are is a great achievement.

 

Well there's only been Wullie who has said that and tbf i think he's only exaggerated by one position.

 

as for pre-season expectations - it's a difficult one because we lost some big players and brought in others so most fans didnt really know how that transition would pan out. it turns out some of the acquisitions were absolute master-strokes, so that has, rightly in my view, lifted expectations.

 

on top of that there's just people seeing the lay of the land as games progress - im sure people would've thought the likes of villa and everton would be competing where we are now, but they've failed to turn up. another thing which, rightly in my view, modifies outlook. basically the moral is people are better equipped to make a call about expectations now - whereas doing it pre-season is like forecasting the weather in february at the start of august.

[Flip]

Seriously why the f*** does everyone keep going on about Norwich, if we qualify for the Champions League and Norwich finish 6th does that mean we should have won the league.

 

 

 

Obviously not, however it does prove that this - massive over-achieving - because we were in the Championship two seasons ago is a crap and utter ridiculous argument.

 

Lets just see where they are next season before we start jumping to those conclusions, still a long way to go yet.

 

?

 

Well we might be relegated next season, whats your point?

 

My point is they havent achieved anything yet, so a bit redundant in using them as a comparison.

 

What have we achieved? 

[Spudil]

Ian and Hughesy do you agree we have the 7th best squad in the league?

[Wullie]

I thought we'd finish in the bottom half at the start of the season, and fair play that we're not, none of us really saw Demba Ba coming, but I always said that 7th was the bare minimum acceptable position.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

people are better equipped to make a call about expectations now - whereas doing it pre-season is like forecasting the weather in february at the start of august.

 

You don't think it's harsh to just always have "do better than we're doing now" as expectations for the manager?

 

Does he deserve any credit for managing us to our current position, which was higher than anyone expected at the start? Or should we just say he's benefitted from good players and has failed to get them into the top 4?

[loki679]

Peddle him.  We've been bloody lucky a lot of times this season and i've seen nothing to suggest we're going to play anywhere near our potential under him.  Limited tactically.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Ian and Hughesy do you agree we have the 7th best squad in the league?

 

I honestly don't know, it's a very hard thing to assess. There are so many ways of winning a football match, so many good players who underperform and so many 'worse' players who can be put together into a good unit.

 

If your point is that Pardew has some good players at his disposal then that's true, any manager needs that to get into the top 6. But he also has a good number of mediocre ones who he has had to use in the first team quite a lot.

[Jayson]

How many of our first team players have even played together before this season? 

How many are new to the premiership?

How many have completed a full season in the prem?

 

All this just gets completely taken for granted. Because it couldnt possibly have gone less than well could it, course not. 6th is the minimum !

[johnnypd]

people are better equipped to make a call about expectations now - whereas doing it pre-season is like forecasting the weather in february at the start of august.

 

You don't think it's harsh to just always have "do better than we're doing now" as expectations for the manager?

 

did i ever say that was my outlook? no.

 

Does he deserve any credit for managing us to our current position, which was higher than anyone expected at the start?

 

don't be so defensive man ive already said a few mins ago he deserves credit and has us over achieving, albeit i dont think its as dramatic as others have argued.

 

Or should we just say he's benefitted from good players and has failed to get them into the top 4?

 

dont think ANYONE has said he's failed by not getting us in the top four.

 

my argument here is that things change so a fan's outlook in pre-season isn't necessarily the most realistic or most well judged view about where a team should be aiming. that works both negatively and positively. events happen, other teams surprise you or fail to turn up, signings turn out to be far better than you imagined etc. of course pardew deserves credit but i think the argument that people expected us to finish 10th and we're now 6th isn't great because pre-season predictions are shit. they're based on faulty or partial information and the information at hand now is far better. we're better placed to judge our season both retrospectively and looking forward to remaining games right now.

[midds]

http://www.newcastle-online.org/nufcforum/index.php/topic,89739.50.html

 

Predictions thread. It's quite interesting in a dull sort of way.

[The Prophet]

I disagree. There have been some underlying tactical flaws that have been prevalent within our game throughout the season.

 

Absolutely, I've never stated otherwise. While direct, long ball tactics can work with a purpose as they did against Man United, we've been far too willing to resort to the pointless punt this season. It was partiuclarly prevelant yesterday and it's an area that needs to be worked on. We've got far too much quality through the spine of the team to be doing so. Similarly at times our game has revolved around contain rather than emphasising our attacking flair, the FA cup defeat to Brighton springs to mind. Pardew's understanding of the side and the player's confidence in each others games is very much a work in progress at this moment in time.

 

I don't perceive pardew to responsible for our current standing. Our margins have been small and we have been fortunate, there can be no denial of that. Benefited by the brilliance of a ba and the astuteness of carr, that has masked our inability to develop any style of sorts, and a tactical game plan in which our best players can come to the fore.

 

So it's your belief a team can bumble to sixth without any form of tactical nouse from the man at the helm? What Pardew has brought to he table is excellent preperation, an excellent work ethic and an ability to close out tight games (yesterday being the exception). He has his weakness but he certianly has his uses too and while you can attribute some of our success to luck or fortune a great deal of hard work has gone into this season and we're reaping the rewards.

 

[Hughesy]

Ian and Hughesy do you agree we have the 7th best squad in the league?

 

I think we do.  I would make 2 caveats in stating this. First I don't think that Everton and Villa are that far behind on a man for man analysis of their squads and have underachieved this season.

 

Second, as I have pointed out numerous times now, I think there is a very sizeable gap between us in a notional 7th place and Liverpool/Arsenal in 6th.  I know it is quite fashionable on here to knock Liverpool, but it is clear they have a good deal more strength in depth than we do. Same goes for Arsenal.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Johnnypd, I'm struggling to keep up with your argument TBH. We're overachieving but at the same time we should be revising our expectations all the time? It's a view I struggle to understand TBH, no offence meant.

 

I realise pre-season predictions are imperfect, but it's also slightly odd to say that because we've done unusually well so far we should do unusually well for the rest of the season, or even better. Maybe we're due a downward correction and the original predictions were right after all. 

[johnnypd]

Johnnyod, I'm struggling to keep up with your argument TBH. We're overachieving but at the same time we should be revising our expectations all the time? It's a view I struggle to understand TBH, no offence meant.

 

I realise pre-season predictions are imperfect, but it's also slightly odd to say that because we've done unusually well so far we should do unusually well for the rest of the season, or even better. Maybe we're due a downward correction and the original predictions were right after all. 

 

why would i be offended if you are too dim to understand? 

 

it's like a sprinter from jamaica going to run in barbados not feeling too good and thinking he'd do well to get bronze. then when he gets there he blows everyone away in the heats after realising that his opponents aren't as good as him. should he stick to the original predictions and be happy with bronze or re-adjust his expectations to take into account for fuller and more comprehensive knowledge he has gained?

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Johnnyod, I'm struggling to keep up with your argument TBH. We're overachieving but at the same time we should be revising our expectations all the time? It's a view I struggle to understand TBH, no offence meant.

 

I realise pre-season predictions are imperfect, but it's also slightly odd to say that because we've done unusually well so far we should do unusually well for the rest of the season, or even better. Maybe we're due a downward correction and the original predictions were right after all. 

 

why would i be offended if you are too dim to understand? 

 

it's like a sprinter from jamaica going to run in barbados not feeling too good and thinking he'd do well to get bronze. then when he gets there he blows everyone away in the heats after realising that his opponents aren't as good as him. should he stick to the original predictions and be happy with bronze or re-adjust his expectations to take into account for fuller and more comprehensive knowledge he has gained?

 

 

I see what you're saying, but it's kind of like saying the sprinter should revise his expectations at about 55 metres.

 

We haven't finished the season, who's to say that the predictions about top 10 weren't fair, and if we end up there it's OK after all? I mean, we had some knowledge of our opponents, and it was pretty accurate. We basically knew who the top 6 would be, and those teams are there. There are some teams like Villa and Everton who are slightly underachieving, but that could still correct before the end of the season.

 

Anyway, it doesn't really matter either way, you're entitled to expect whatever finish you want, I just think what Pardew has managed so far has been very good. Apart from the style of football, which I can understand but don't enjoy.

[johnnypd]

actually i'd say a similar, albeit far more extreme thing happened when we went down into the championship - losing heavily to leyton orient in pre-season plenty on here thought we would struggle and go into a tailspin pre-season. yet after a mere handful of matches it was pretty fucking obvious we were far better than just about everyone in that crap division. anyone who thought the pre-season gloom was a relevant yardstick to measure ourselves against in those circumstances is a clown.

 

can't spell it out any more clearly than that.

[Wullie]

Of course we have to change our original expectations given how good Ba is, and especially now having added Cisse otherwise what was the point in signing him?

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Of course we have to change our original expectations given how good Ba is, and especially now having added Cisse otherwise what was the point in signing him?

 

Of course we have to appreciate how good these players are and enjoy the fact that they are better than we expected. But we don't have to remove credit for our league position from the manager because he happens to have some good players.

[johnnypd]

Johnnyod, I'm struggling to keep up with your argument TBH. We're overachieving but at the same time we should be revising our expectations all the time? It's a view I struggle to understand TBH, no offence meant.

 

I realise pre-season predictions are imperfect, but it's also slightly odd to say that because we've done unusually well so far we should do unusually well for the rest of the season, or even better. Maybe we're due a downward correction and the original predictions were right after all. 

 

why would i be offended if you are too dim to understand? 

 

it's like a sprinter from jamaica going to run in barbados not feeling too good and thinking he'd do well to get bronze. then when he gets there he blows everyone away in the heats after realising that his opponents aren't as good as him. should he stick to the original predictions and be happy with bronze or re-adjust his expectations to take into account for fuller and more comprehensive knowledge he has gained?

 

 

I see what you're saying, but it's kind of like saying the sprinter should revise his expectations at about 55 metres.

 

We haven't finished the season, who's to say that the predictions about top 10 weren't fair, and if we end up there it's OK after all? I mean, we had some knowledge of our opponents, and it was pretty accurate. We basically knew who the top 6 would be, and those teams are there. There are some teams like Villa and Everton who are slightly underachieving, but that could still correct before the end of the season.

 

Anyway, it doesn't really matter either way, you're entitled to expect whatever finish you want, I just think what Pardew has managed so far has been very good. Apart from the style of football, which I can understand but don't enjoy.

 

I think he's been good rather than very good personally and i would agree he has overachieved.

 

i just don't think we should view our achievement now in the light of people saying we'd finish 16th or whatever back in july.

 

even though it comes off negatively my criticisms of pardew tend to be pointed and specific rather than saying we should get rid or he's a fool or whatever. i still think there's a couple on here who are being too extreme in their demands of Pardew, ie HTT.

[Hughesy]

If we are constantly revising expectations - at what point would Pardew ever get praise for what he has achieved? I don't quite follow how preseason expectations were, for the sake of argument, 8th-11th, we are currently in 6th (3 points off 4th) and now people are suggesting that actually we have a squad (which we clearly don't) that should be in 6th by virtue of its quality and that therefore Pardew is, at best, matching expectations. It doesn't make sense!  At what point is any of the success attributed to Pardew and as part of a wider point, at what time is any success attributed to any manager?  Or by virtue of its current league position, is each team achieving what it should be because expectations have been revised?

 

In summary, what I am trying to say is that it seems as if people have had an initial opinion, seen that we are now doing better than that original opinion, and decided that that is definitve proof that actually our squad is better than originally predicted and we are merely at par.  And that this improvement is solely down to the innate ability of the players in the squad and  has been achieved in spite of our manager?

[Fenham Mag]

Looking forward to hear what he has to say on MOTD2 tonight.

[Spudil]

If we are constantly revising expectations - at what point would Pardew ever get praise for what he has achieved? I don't quite follow how preseason expectations were, for the sake of argument, 8th-11th, we are currently in 6th (3 points off 4th) and now people are suggesting that actually we have a squad (which we clearly don't) that should be in 6th by virtue of its quality and that therefore Pardew is, at best, matching expectations. It doesn't make sense!  At what point is any of the success attributed to Pardew and as part of a wider point, at what time is any success attributed to any manager?  Or by virtue of its current league position, is each team achieving what it should be because expectations have been revised?

 

One person said 6th.  I'd say we have the 7th best squad in the league (a decent few would agree). If he finished 7th then well done, however even at that if the performances remain crap for the most part than that should not be ignored. In addition we have been s*** in the cups, and that much is finished.