Alan Pardew

[Flip]

Seriously why the f*** does everyone keep going on about Norwich, if we qualify for the Champions League and Norwich finish 6th does that mean we should have won the league.

 

 

 

Obviously not, however it does prove that this - massive over-achieving - because we were in the Championship two seasons ago is a crap and utter ridiculous argument.

[Minhosa]

6th is the minimum we should be looking at? No wonder the manager doesn't stand a chance.

 

In this division, with the squad he has at his disposal, yes.

 

He has 3/4 of a good first team that should be top 6 quality, the rest is bottom 3 material really.

 

Ian, you've only got to look at the lack of quality around us to know that top 6 should be where we are aiming.

 

We've got a spine of a team that verging on C.L quality imho with Krul, Colo, Cabate, Tiote and the Dembii. His should be concentrating his efforts on getting the fuckers wide of this lot to perform to a level condusive to the rest imho.

 

As I said, the majority of the first team are good players but the rest of the squad aren't.

 

So, on that basis, surely you must fancy us to progres up the table given this if first time we've got a chance of a run of them together with Tiote, Cisse and Ba back?

[Mick]

This season, top 10 would be progress and top 6 would be unreal. He has managed us into a position where 4th or 5th is achievable, but I don't think it's fair to suddenly revise expectations because of the good job he's done so far.

 

Our squad isn't that good, 3/4 of our first team is.

 

We were 1 point off top 10 last season.

[Si]

Seriously why the f*** does everyone keep going on about Norwich, if we qualify for the Champions League and Norwich finish 6th does that mean we should have won the league.

 

 

 

Obviously not, however it does prove that this - massive over-achieving - because we were in the Championship two seasons ago is a crap and utter ridiculous argument.

 

Lets just see where they are next season before we start jumping to those conclusions, still a long way to go yet.

[johnnypd]

This season, top 10 would be progress and top 6 would be unreal. He has managed us into a position where 4th or 5th is achievable, but I don't think it's fair to suddenly revise expectations because of the good job he's done so far.

 

Our squad isn't that good, 3/4 of our first team is.

 

We were 1 point off top 10 last season.

 

we were basically 8th until the players inexplicably went off on their hols 30 mins before the season ended.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

6th is the minimum we should be looking at? No wonder the manager doesn't stand a chance.

 

In this division, with the squad he has at his disposal, yes.

 

He has 3/4 of a good first team that should be top 6 quality, the rest is bottom 3 material really.

 

Ian, you've only got to look at the lack of quality around us to know that top 6 should be where we are aiming.

 

We've got a spine of a team that verging on C.L quality imho with Krul, Colo, Cabate, Tiote and the Dembii. His should be concentrating his efforts on getting the fuckers wide of this lot to perform to a level condusive to the rest imho.

 

As I said, the majority of the first team are good players but the rest of the squad aren't.

 

So, on that basis, surely you must fancy us to progres up the table given this if first time we've got a chance of a run of them together with Tiote, Cisse and Ba back?

 

I hope we'll do well, aye, whether we progress up the table depends on a lot of other teams as well.

 

The rest of the squad, and Pardew, have to take credit for how they ground out some results when most people expected us to drop down the table. It doesn't necessarily follow that we'll start shooting up the league now, I hope we start picking up a good number of points though.

[Flip]

Seriously why the f*** does everyone keep going on about Norwich, if we qualify for the Champions League and Norwich finish 6th does that mean we should have won the league.

 

 

 

Obviously not, however it does prove that this - massive over-achieving - because we were in the Championship two seasons ago is a crap and utter ridiculous argument.

 

Lets just see where they are next season before we start jumping to those conclusions, still a long way to go yet.

 

?

 

Well we might be relegated next season, whats your point?

[Hughesy]

I want to know where all these people who are now saying 6th is a bare minimum for our league position were at the beginning of the season. Because I don't remember there being many ppl, if any, who said that. And that was with the squad as it now is, bar Cisse.

 

Expectations have shot through the roof as a result of our start.

 

We do not have s squad close to the top 6. So to be where we are is a great achievement.

 

[Minhosa]

I want to know where all these people who are now saying 6th is a bare minimum for our league position were at the beginning of the season. Because I don't remember there being many ppl, if any, who said that. And that was with the squad as it now is, bar Cisse.

 

Expectations have shot through the roof as a result of our start.

 

We do not have s squad close to the top 6. So to be where we are is a great achievement.

 

 

Well that and the fact no bugger else is anywhere near challenging.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

I want to know where all these people who are now saying 6th is a bare minimum for our league position were at the beginning of the season. Because I don't remember there being many ppl, if any, who said that. And that was with the squad as it now is, bar Cisse.

 

Expectations have shot through the roof as a result of our start.

 

We do not have s squad close to the top 6. So to be where we are is a great achievement.

 

 

Exactly, it's like if we were fourth now people would be saying the minimum is to win the league or something. I can't recall anyone predicting Europe or anywhere near it at the start of the season. And when we went up to sixth I don't think many people were saying it wasn't a big achievement because it was the minimum we should expect.

 

People need to think about what we were expecting at the start of the season, it's been a great campaign so far. 

[Si]

Seriously why the f*** does everyone keep going on about Norwich, if we qualify for the Champions League and Norwich finish 6th does that mean we should have won the league.

 

 

 

Obviously not, however it does prove that this - massive over-achieving - because we were in the Championship two seasons ago is a crap and utter ridiculous argument.

 

Lets just see where they are next season before we start jumping to those conclusions, still a long way to go yet.

 

?

 

Well we might be relegated next season, whats your point?

 

My point is they havent achieved anything yet, so a bit redundant in using them as a comparison.

[johnnypd]

I want to know where all these people who are now saying 6th is a bare minimum for our league position were at the beginning of the season. Because I don't remember there being many ppl, if any, who said that. And that was with the squad as it now is, bar Cisse.

 

Expectations have shot through the roof as a result of our start.

 

We do not have s squad close to the top 6. So to be where we are is a great achievement.

 

Well there's only been Wullie who has said that and tbf i think he's only exaggerated by one position.

 

as for pre-season expectations - it's a difficult one because we lost some big players and brought in others so most fans didnt really know how that transition would pan out. it turns out some of the acquisitions were absolute master-strokes, so that has, rightly in my view, lifted expectations.

 

on top of that there's just people seeing the lay of the land as games progress - im sure people would've thought the likes of villa and everton would be competing where we are now, but they've failed to turn up. another thing which, rightly in my view, modifies outlook. basically the moral is people are better equipped to make a call about expectations now - whereas doing it pre-season is like forecasting the weather in february at the start of august.

[Flip]

Seriously why the f*** does everyone keep going on about Norwich, if we qualify for the Champions League and Norwich finish 6th does that mean we should have won the league.

 

 

 

Obviously not, however it does prove that this - massive over-achieving - because we were in the Championship two seasons ago is a crap and utter ridiculous argument.

 

Lets just see where they are next season before we start jumping to those conclusions, still a long way to go yet.

 

?

 

Well we might be relegated next season, whats your point?

 

My point is they havent achieved anything yet, so a bit redundant in using them as a comparison.

 

What have we achieved? 

[Spudil]

Ian and Hughesy do you agree we have the 7th best squad in the league?

[Wullie]

I thought we'd finish in the bottom half at the start of the season, and fair play that we're not, none of us really saw Demba Ba coming, but I always said that 7th was the bare minimum acceptable position.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

people are better equipped to make a call about expectations now - whereas doing it pre-season is like forecasting the weather in february at the start of august.

 

You don't think it's harsh to just always have "do better than we're doing now" as expectations for the manager?

 

Does he deserve any credit for managing us to our current position, which was higher than anyone expected at the start? Or should we just say he's benefitted from good players and has failed to get them into the top 4?

[loki679]

Peddle him.  We've been bloody lucky a lot of times this season and i've seen nothing to suggest we're going to play anywhere near our potential under him.  Limited tactically.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Ian and Hughesy do you agree we have the 7th best squad in the league?

 

I honestly don't know, it's a very hard thing to assess. There are so many ways of winning a football match, so many good players who underperform and so many 'worse' players who can be put together into a good unit.

 

If your point is that Pardew has some good players at his disposal then that's true, any manager needs that to get into the top 6. But he also has a good number of mediocre ones who he has had to use in the first team quite a lot.

[Jayson]

How many of our first team players have even played together before this season? 

How many are new to the premiership?

How many have completed a full season in the prem?

 

All this just gets completely taken for granted. Because it couldnt possibly have gone less than well could it, course not. 6th is the minimum !

[johnnypd]

people are better equipped to make a call about expectations now - whereas doing it pre-season is like forecasting the weather in february at the start of august.

 

You don't think it's harsh to just always have "do better than we're doing now" as expectations for the manager?

 

did i ever say that was my outlook? no.

 

Does he deserve any credit for managing us to our current position, which was higher than anyone expected at the start?

 

don't be so defensive man ive already said a few mins ago he deserves credit and has us over achieving, albeit i dont think its as dramatic as others have argued.

 

Or should we just say he's benefitted from good players and has failed to get them into the top 4?

 

dont think ANYONE has said he's failed by not getting us in the top four.

 

my argument here is that things change so a fan's outlook in pre-season isn't necessarily the most realistic or most well judged view about where a team should be aiming. that works both negatively and positively. events happen, other teams surprise you or fail to turn up, signings turn out to be far better than you imagined etc. of course pardew deserves credit but i think the argument that people expected us to finish 10th and we're now 6th isn't great because pre-season predictions are shit. they're based on faulty or partial information and the information at hand now is far better. we're better placed to judge our season both retrospectively and looking forward to remaining games right now.

[midds]

http://www.newcastle-online.org/nufcforum/index.php/topic,89739.50.html

 

Predictions thread. It's quite interesting in a dull sort of way.

[The Prophet]

I disagree. There have been some underlying tactical flaws that have been prevalent within our game throughout the season.

 

Absolutely, I've never stated otherwise. While direct, long ball tactics can work with a purpose as they did against Man United, we've been far too willing to resort to the pointless punt this season. It was partiuclarly prevelant yesterday and it's an area that needs to be worked on. We've got far too much quality through the spine of the team to be doing so. Similarly at times our game has revolved around contain rather than emphasising our attacking flair, the FA cup defeat to Brighton springs to mind. Pardew's understanding of the side and the player's confidence in each others games is very much a work in progress at this moment in time.

 

I don't perceive pardew to responsible for our current standing. Our margins have been small and we have been fortunate, there can be no denial of that. Benefited by the brilliance of a ba and the astuteness of carr, that has masked our inability to develop any style of sorts, and a tactical game plan in which our best players can come to the fore.

 

So it's your belief a team can bumble to sixth without any form of tactical nouse from the man at the helm? What Pardew has brought to he table is excellent preperation, an excellent work ethic and an ability to close out tight games (yesterday being the exception). He has his weakness but he certianly has his uses too and while you can attribute some of our success to luck or fortune a great deal of hard work has gone into this season and we're reaping the rewards.

 

[Hughesy]

Ian and Hughesy do you agree we have the 7th best squad in the league?

 

I think we do.  I would make 2 caveats in stating this. First I don't think that Everton and Villa are that far behind on a man for man analysis of their squads and have underachieved this season.

 

Second, as I have pointed out numerous times now, I think there is a very sizeable gap between us in a notional 7th place and Liverpool/Arsenal in 6th.  I know it is quite fashionable on here to knock Liverpool, but it is clear they have a good deal more strength in depth than we do. Same goes for Arsenal.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Johnnypd, I'm struggling to keep up with your argument TBH. We're overachieving but at the same time we should be revising our expectations all the time? It's a view I struggle to understand TBH, no offence meant.

 

I realise pre-season predictions are imperfect, but it's also slightly odd to say that because we've done unusually well so far we should do unusually well for the rest of the season, or even better. Maybe we're due a downward correction and the original predictions were right after all. 

[johnnypd]

Johnnyod, I'm struggling to keep up with your argument TBH. We're overachieving but at the same time we should be revising our expectations all the time? It's a view I struggle to understand TBH, no offence meant.

 

I realise pre-season predictions are imperfect, but it's also slightly odd to say that because we've done unusually well so far we should do unusually well for the rest of the season, or even better. Maybe we're due a downward correction and the original predictions were right after all. 

 

why would i be offended if you are too dim to understand? 

 

it's like a sprinter from jamaica going to run in barbados not feeling too good and thinking he'd do well to get bronze. then when he gets there he blows everyone away in the heats after realising that his opponents aren't as good as him. should he stick to the original predictions and be happy with bronze or re-adjust his expectations to take into account for fuller and more comprehensive knowledge he has gained?