Alan Pardew

[Guest ObiChrisKenobi]

 

:lol:

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Unless Santon can play RB and LB at the same time, he isn't an alternative to Simpson really.

[Interpolic]

Does Pardew have to take some responsibility for the inability to sort out adequate central defensive cover in both the summer and January or have we decided he doesn't have that much of a say in these things?  I was worried Williamson would get injured, hadn't bargained on such a shaky run of form and there are no other options.

[Si]

 

:lol:

 

Brilliant.

[Wullie]

e are sixth for the price of Cisse and a bore hole, in a season where we have used Shola, Guthrie, Perch, Raylor, Simpson, Willo, Obertan and Best. Lost Ba & Tiote to the CofN, had Cabaye suspended, Saylor broken.

 

It's a f***ing miracle we are sixth not an under achievement.

 

I tend to agree mate, people seem keen to focus on the good players we have as a reason not to rate Pardew, but they tend to forget about the absolutely terrible ones we have as well.

 

A lot of the time he's picking the "absolutely terrible" ones ahead of the good ones though isn't he?

 

Well sometimes he makes decisions that I don't agree with, leaving out HBA being the main one.

 

What I mean is that the fundamental strength of our squad is often used as a reason to say Pardew's work has just been average, but I don't think that's fair when we're carrying some of the players Si mentions.

 

Four of the eight players he mentions have been chosen ahead of HBA. That's Pardew's decision. It's also his decision to start Simpson every single game and leave him on for the full 90 minutes every single game.

 

If we're carrying these players, why is he so desperate to have them in the team at all costs?

 

Who is the alternative to Simpson?

 

Santon or Ryan Taylor.

 

Raylor is shit for shit, and Santon then just creates a problem at LB. The squad is paper then and we don't have enough talent challenging for places in a number of positions.

 

 

 

If he's "shit for shit", why is Pardew picking him at right midfield?

 

What problem does Santon create? He's a cracking player.

[Wullie]

Unless Santon can play RB and LB at the same time, he isn't an alternative to Simpson really.

 

Santon RB, Taylor LB.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Does Pardew have to take some responsibility for the inability to sort out adequate central defensive cover in both the summer and January or have we decided he doesn't have that much of a say in these things?  I was worried Williamson would get injured, hadn't bargained on such a shaky run of form and there are no other options.

 

It's a good question, nobody knows really. We seemed to be trying to sign some backup (e.g. Mariappa) and were close to some fullback signings as well. I still believe we have Pieters lined up to come in in the summer.

[JH]

Does Pardew have to take some responsibility for the inability to sort out adequate central defensive cover in both the summer and January or have we decided he doesn't have that much of a say in these things?  I was worried Williamson would get injured, hadn't bargained on such a shaky run of form and there are no other options.

 

People have decided that he isn't responsible for the good signings we've made, so I suppose he can't really be blamed for the lack of signings

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Unless Santon can play RB and LB at the same time, he isn't an alternative to Simpson really.

 

Santon RB, Taylor LB.

 

I know that's possible, I just think Raylor is worse than Simpson at fullback anyway. No point arguing about that in particular, it's just an opinion on who is the lesser of two evils.

[Si]

e are sixth for the price of Cisse and a bore hole, in a season where we have used Shola, Guthrie, Perch, Raylor, Simpson, Willo, Obertan and Best. Lost Ba & Tiote to the CofN, had Cabaye suspended, Saylor broken.

 

It's a f***ing miracle we are sixth not an under achievement.

 

I tend to agree mate, people seem keen to focus on the good players we have as a reason not to rate Pardew, but they tend to forget about the absolutely terrible ones we have as well.

 

A lot of the time he's picking the "absolutely terrible" ones ahead of the good ones though isn't he?

 

Well sometimes he makes decisions that I don't agree with, leaving out HBA being the main one.

 

What I mean is that the fundamental strength of our squad is often used as a reason to say Pardew's work has just been average, but I don't think that's fair when we're carrying some of the players Si mentions.

 

Four of the eight players he mentions have been chosen ahead of HBA. That's Pardew's decision. It's also his decision to start Simpson every single game and leave him on for the full 90 minutes every single game.

 

If we're carrying these players, why is he so desperate to have them in the team at all costs?

 

Who is the alternative to Simpson?

 

Santon or Ryan Taylor.

 

Raylor is s*** for s***, and Santon then just creates a problem at LB. The squad is paper then and we don't have enough talent challenging for places in a number of positions.

 

 

 

If he's "s*** for s***", why is Pardew picking him at right midfield?

 

What problem does Santon create? He's a cracking player.

 

Because if your playing him at RB then we've not got an established LB to replace him. That's the problem he creates if your using instead of Simpson.

 

 

[Wullie]

e are sixth for the price of Cisse and a bore hole, in a season where we have used Shola, Guthrie, Perch, Raylor, Simpson, Willo, Obertan and Best. Lost Ba & Tiote to the CofN, had Cabaye suspended, Saylor broken.

 

It's a f***ing miracle we are sixth not an under achievement.

 

I tend to agree mate, people seem keen to focus on the good players we have as a reason not to rate Pardew, but they tend to forget about the absolutely terrible ones we have as well.

 

A lot of the time he's picking the "absolutely terrible" ones ahead of the good ones though isn't he?

 

Well sometimes he makes decisions that I don't agree with, leaving out HBA being the main one.

 

What I mean is that the fundamental strength of our squad is often used as a reason to say Pardew's work has just been average, but I don't think that's fair when we're carrying some of the players Si mentions.

 

Four of the eight players he mentions have been chosen ahead of HBA. That's Pardew's decision. It's also his decision to start Simpson every single game and leave him on for the full 90 minutes every single game.

 

If we're carrying these players, why is he so desperate to have them in the team at all costs?

 

Who is the alternative to Simpson?

 

Santon or Ryan Taylor.

 

Raylor is s*** for s***, and Santon then just creates a problem at LB. The squad is paper then and we don't have enough talent challenging for places in a number of positions.

 

 

 

If he's "s*** for s***", why is Pardew picking him at right midfield?

 

What problem does Santon create? He's a cracking player.

 

Because if your playing him at RB then we've not got an established LB to replace him. That's the problem he creates if your using instead of Simpson.

 

The manager clearly likes Taylor at LB, so what's the problem?

 

 

[HawK]

At the end of the day, if you were to compare our players, man to man, with the best of the PL, we should and would be up there. The only reason we're not is due to the manager. One thing's for sure as far as I'm concerned, if Bobby were here, Hatem would have played the full 90 minutes of every single game he's been fit and available for. He's meeting Ashley's criteria, so he's safe for now. But there's no reason to accept where we are, we should be aiming for better with what we have. Whether there is a manager available to do this right now, is another question entirely. It doesn't mean I don't have the right to pass opinion on the fact that Pardew is clearly out of his depth at this level.

 

So to everyone who argued against this, do you believe that Pardew is getting the most out of this squad? With the right players in the right positions, with the right gameplan? If he is, well good on you. If you believe, like me, that he is not, then of course we are underachieving. It's not rocket science. How many second balls did we win today? I couldn't see any. How many headers did Ba or Cisse control as Krul punted the ball upfield did we win then? I couldn't see any. Who agreed with Ba pleading with Krul and Colo to keep it on the deck, but wouldn't as they had to follow the grand plan?

 

Why has he not done the absolutely, blindingly obvious things, such as drop Simpson for being consistently poor, and putting Raylor in his place who can at least do a job in the position? Or not put our best player, by a country mile, in the starting lineup regularly? He's limited, and being carried by the strength of our players. What I wouldn't give to have a manager like Redknapp, who's made players like Dawson and Ekotto with 90 year old Friedel in goal, into a top-3 side.

 

Ashley would never hire the type of manager we need to take the club further, because such a manager couldn't work with Ashley. That said, Ashley, recently, has set up some fantastic infrastructure around the squad and the team, with absolute top quality scouting and recruiting. But a manager like Pardew's only going to take that infrastructure so far, and it isn't top 4. Man-for-man, that's where we should be aiming with these players now. You would have thought, with top half fairly guarenteed, he would have at least tried to figure out how to play his best players in a system to get us ready for next season while the pressure's off - instead we're still playing like we're still chasing a 40 points target come gameweek 35.

 

My frustration is that, I'm pretty much realizing now, is that this is the best this club is ever going to be for the next 5-10 years. I suppose I can settle, but when it's so blindingly obvious what needs to be done, it's a mighty hard pill to swallow.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

HawK, that's insanely negative man. We've made some good progress since relegation, making the right signings and signing existing players to long contracts, our best league position for ages, and you post something like that? Way over the top IMO.

 

I agree Ashley might never hire a manager who would challenge him, but that's just something we have to deal with and all the more reason to back Pardew.

[johnnypd]

At the end of the day, if you were to compare our players, man to man, with the best of the PL, we should and would be up there. The only reason we're not is due to the manager. One thing's for sure as far as I'm concerned, if Bobby were here, Hatem would have played the full 90 minutes of every single game he's been fit and available for. He's meeting Ashley's criteria, so he's safe for now. But there's no reason to accept where we are, we should be aiming for better with what we have. Whether there is a manager available to do this right now, is another question entirely. It doesn't mean I don't have the right to pass opinion on the fact that Pardew is clearly out of his depth at this level.

 

So to everyone who argued against this, do you believe that Pardew is getting the most out of this squad? With the right players in the right positions, with the right gameplan? If he is, well good on you. If you believe, like me, that he is not, then of course we are underachieving. It's not rocket science. How many second balls did we win today? I couldn't see any. How many headers did Ba or Cisse control as Krul punted the ball upfield did we win then? I couldn't see any. Who agreed with Ba pleading with Krul and Colo to keep it on the deck, but wouldn't as they had to follow the grand plan?

 

Why has he not done the absolutely, blindingly obvious things, such as drop Simpson for being consistently poor, and putting Raylor in his place who can at least do a job in the position? Or not put our best player, by a country mile, in the starting lineup regularly? He's limited, and being carried by the strength of our players. What I wouldn't give to have a manager like Redknapp, who's made players like Dawson and Ekotto with 90 year old Friedel in goal, into a top-3 side.

 

Ashley would never hire the type of manager we need to take the club further, because such a manager couldn't work with Ashley. That said, Ashley, recently, has set up some fantastic infrastructure around the squad and the team, with absolute top quality scouting and recruiting. But a manager like Pardew's only going to take that infrastructure so far, and it isn't top 4. Man-for-man, that's where we should be aiming with these players now. You would have thought, with top half fairly guarenteed, he would have at least tried to figure out how to play his best players in a system to get us ready for next season while the pressure's off - instead we're still playing like we're still chasing a 40 points target come gameweek 35.

 

My frustration is that, I'm pretty much realizing now, is that this is the best this club is ever going to be for the next 5-10 years. I suppose I can settle, but when it's so blindingly obvious what needs to be done, it's a mighty hard pill to swallow.

 

This is a bit OTT really, our squad man for man isn't expected to top Chelsea and Arsenal, which is what it has to do to get into the top four. Those sides have been fucking shite by their standards this season, and yet they are still ahead of us, having underperformed.

 

I actually agree with the specific points you make about poor examples to our play but not to the extent of saying we are below where we should be. Our current position is about right, even if performances haven't been as good as most would like.

 

There's an opportunity to squeeze a bit extra out of what we've and go for something special this season due to the competition being poor and that last CL place opening up. But it would take something extra special to do that. I agree Pardew probably isn't the man to take advantage of that, unless we see a dramatic improvement to the style of our play, but it doesnt mean we should get rid. the club is unstable enough as it is.

 

As for players like BAE and Dawson - they're actually pretty good. Dawson's been solid and they also have King who almost always performs well when called upon and Kaboul who has been a beast this season. BAE is probably the league's best left-back this season as well and a top player.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Dawson is better than Williamson and Ekotto is better than Simpson and maybe Santon as well, so I don't see how they support the idea that our squad is underachieving.

[themanupstairs]

What bothers me about Pardew the most isn't the long ball tactics, or his handling of Ben Arfa. There are points for and against those arguments, and we can be here all day hashing them out.

 

What I find most irritating, if not worrying, is what I perceive as a lack of sincerity in the way he addresses the media and the fans. He has the look of a used car salesman/dodgy chancer. A shiny gold incisor wouldn't look out of place in his gob. He is ineloquent, and often does not use proper English when speaking to the press, and for some reason it grinds on my nuts, and makes him sound out of his depth.

 

Maybe all that is trivial, but what I'm trying to say is that I don't have a good gut feeling about this guy in the long term. Absolutely no denying the great job he's done taking over mid-season last year, and making us a solid outfit. But he talks big, as if he thinks he can lead us onto bigger things, and for some reason when he does that it sits a little uneasy with me.

[Segun Oluwaniyi]

HawK, that's insanely negative man. We've made some good progress since relegation, making the right signings and signing existing players to long contracts, our best league position for ages, and you post something like that? Way over the top IMO.

 

I agree Ashley might never hire a manager who would challenge him, but that's just something we have to deal with and all the more reason to back Pardew.

I think some of these people forget that we were sitting a league below in dire straits only two years ago and were sitting in the bottom half when the man took the helm. They forget that he had to sell his most high profile player two or three weeks into his career here. Anything above seventh for this club, is a great result and it is ridiculous to act like Pardew had no part in this. I am not a supporter of some of the negative football he has employed, but at the same time, he completely changed the formation earlier in the season to give Ben Arfa room to operate. I think he is learning and adjusting and it is good to give him time in which to do so.

[Jayson]

These are all long-term issues which seem to go over the top of his head. This strikes me as a much better gauge of his abilities than isolated matches. I try to look at progression and development. At the start of the season, I remember saying I'd be interested to see how he learns and adapts.. and that there's room for improvement for both the team and the manager. He hasn't shown much improvement, if I'm honest. If he'd shown even medium-sized strides in the right direction I'd be edified that the work-in-progress is a worthwhile exercise. I know great teams don't happen overnight and there is great merit in having tenures the length of Wenger, Ferguson etc... but not if you've backed Steve Bruce, McLeish.

 

Patience with a manager, in and of itself, doesn't guarantee any decent yield for your time! I'm not saying Pardew is as bad as them, but I hope you see what I mean. It's now March, and Pardew is still alienating our best creative player while we continue to hoof from Krul to Cisse for a solid 45 minutes. That's daft in my book. We had to hit our season nadir today at half-time before he brought on HBA. As I said, that's desperation - not growth.

 

We clearly had improved massively defensively over last season though. Before Saylors injury only Spurs & Manchester city managed to score more than one goal against us in 13 games, thats a ridiculous record. They both needed penalties to achieve that. Only chelsea managed it with 2 goals in the last minute after we lost Colo on 25 mins & Saylor at the end also.

 

Pardew earns no faith achieving that? Because thats a crazy record with our defence.

 

Giving a chance to youngsters like Vuckic, Abeid etc isnt an improvement in terms of ideas? Or trying Jonas in the middle which actually worked nicely for a period wasnt a sign hes willing to think outside the box? Hes done more for our setup defensively than in terms of creating flowing football sure, but as i say look at the defense hes working with. If he believes we'll score regardless as we had been, does it not make sense to sway parts of the side toward covering your weakest link? A balanced side is more stable than one which relies on one or the other isnt it?

 

[Hughesy]

These are all long-term issues which seem to go over the top of his head. This strikes me as a much better gauge of his abilities than isolated matches. I try to look at progression and development. At the start of the season, I remember saying I'd be interested to see how he learns and adapts.. and that there's room for improvement for both the team and the manager. He hasn't shown much improvement, if I'm honest. If he'd shown even medium-sized strides in the right direction I'd be edified that the work-in-progress is a worthwhile exercise. I know great teams don't happen overnight and there is great merit in having tenures the length of Wenger, Ferguson etc... but not if you've backed Steve Bruce, McLeish.

 

Patience with a manager, in and of itself, doesn't guarantee any decent yield for your time! I'm not saying Pardew is as bad as them, but I hope you see what I mean. It's now March, and Pardew is still alienating our best creative player while we continue to hoof from Krul to Cisse for a solid 45 minutes. That's daft in my book. We had to hit our season nadir today at half-time before he brought on HBA. As I said, that's desperation - not growth.

 

We clearly had improved massively defensively over last season though. Before Saylors injury only Spurs & Manchester city managed to score more than one goal against us in 13 games, thats a ridiculous record. They both needed penalties to achieve that. Only chelsea managed it with 2 goals in the last minute after we lost Colo on 25 mins & Saylor at the end also.

 

Pardew earns no faith achieving that? Because thats a crazy record with our defence.

 

Giving a chance to youngsters like Vuckic, Abeid etc isnt an improvement in terms of ideas? Or trying Jonas in the middle which actually worked nicely for a period wasnt a sign hes willing to think outside the box? Hes done more for our setup defensively than in terms of creating flowing football sure, but as i say look at the defense hes working with. If he believes we'll score regardless as we had been, does it not make sense to sway parts of the side toward covering your weakest link? A balanced side is more stable than one which relies on one or the other isnt it?

 

 

There'll be some reason why those positives don't count.  Just give it a few mins..

[Beren]

There'll be some reason why those positives don't count.  Just give it a few mins..

 

Stunning contribution You find "time/inclination" to make the most pithy posts.

 

Jayson:

 

Our defensive record was fantastic. I can't/won't deny that. In fact I was very proud of how he got us defending - and he does deserve credit for that - it was brave and organised for the most . I would question why we were scrapping, camped in our own half against some of the lesser sides though. As for the defensive work itself, it's not like teams weren't creating any chances. Krul was having to pull out strings of magnificent stops, we were making clearances on the line etc - so it's not as clear cut as the 'goals conceded' column suggests.

 

Tbf there is a strong argument to suggest that if Saylor hadn't been injured, our defensive record since that Man City game wouldn't be atrocious. MA/DL holds the purse strings/negotiated with Watford - not Pardew. So I don't blame him for not replacing Saylor - but even defensively, all I ask for is balance when assessing how well he has done. So again I would counter-point with freezing our Kadar [for Perch ffs] near the Norwich game and his intransigence to modify our high-line off-side trap against fast front lines (WBA, Fulham, Spurs). Stuff that is basic and apparent to even an average fan, let alone a top-flight professional manager.

 

Using fringe players for a game or two (Abeid and Vuckic are the names you mentioned) doesn't really mean anything to me tbh Sorry. He dropped them both pretty quickly. Okay, he tried them, but it's not like he saw a vision/function they could perform in the first team or even the regular first team squad - and stuck with tweaking and modifying to work something out for them. It's neither a plus or a negative against him.

 

As for believing we'll score regardless - I fucking hope not. Ba shouldn't have to have the chance conversion rate he's had for most of this season. Same goes for Cisse, going forward. We need to be making more chances - because as is already showing - we can't rely on ourselves to be as clinical as we have been nor the opposition to be so profligate.

[Hughesy]

Was unaware that each and every post had to make a stunning contribution.

[Interpolic]

Fuck's sake.

[Dokko]

Was unaware that each and every post had to make a stunning contribution.

 

Just One will do.

[Hughesy]

Was unaware that each and every post had to make a stunning contribution.

 

Just One will do.

 

That hurts...

[Guest firetotheworks]

Hopefully the fact that all of the things that have been wrong with us over the past month or so were so abundantly clear within one match, and even from one half to the next make Pardew realise that we can actually be trusted to play attacking football on the ground. We have Cabaye and Tiote in midfield who are both very capable and Ben Arfa who would slot into it perfectly.

 

1st half: 1-0 down and absolutely nothing of note attacking wise due to playing long ball

 

2nd half: 1-1, should have been 2-1 with another definite penalty and another maybe. Numerous chances, passing the ball around with 2 natural, crafty wingers and tons of possession.

 

If you can't see that, you're surely tainted or brainwashed by what you see outside of when it ACTUALLY MATTERS, in matches.