It has to be said...

[Guest neesy111]

I just hope the bloke is given a chance.

 

Create a continual cauldron of hate and our team and season will be sucked into it.

 

Continue with the Current ownership and we'll have this every season.

[The Merse]

I did put forward the name of Pardew in October. Thats why I knew Hughton was on the platform with the trapdoor creaking. The name was given to a friend of mine who's reasonably close to an NUFC player. Make no mistake about it - the squad will have known all about this for a while.

 

John Brownlie was told by Colin Calderwood on Saturday evening the Hughton didn't have long left and Pardew had more or less signed a contract.

 

Would explain the completely spineless performance on sunday then

[sh74]

Some people need to wake up,Ashleys going nowhere,Pardews going nowhere lets get behind the team for f**ks sake.

[ATB]

Some people need to wake up,Ashleys going nowhere,Pardews going nowhere lets get behind the team for f**ks sake.

 

and Ashley smiles because his "plan" has succeed once again

[AyeDubbleYoo]

The problem is that it really isn't worth getting relegated to get rid of Ashley.

 

Firstly, it wouldn't work because it would mean that he would be even less likely to get the price he wants to sell up.

 

And second because this time it would be much more serious than the last, with all the decent players probably leaving and us spending an untold number of years outside the top flight. We might never recover.

 

So with that in mind we should do everything we can to help the team stay up.

[S.S.R.]

Could a thread title be more wrong?

[BlueStar]

If we back Pardew, we deserve to be relegated.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

If we back Pardew, we deserve to be relegated.

 

But what does that mean? A relegation we 'deserve' is just as bad as one we are martyrs to. What's the point in making it more likely by making it more difficult for him to keep us up?

 

We aren't going to drive Ashley out by singing songs.... inside SJP we may as well get behind the team.

[Guest uma]

ashley and co wont have the balls to even be there on sat nite

[OzzieMandias]

The problem is that it really isn't worth getting relegated to get rid of Ashley.

 

 

No kidding.

[Ameritoon]

All signs are pointing to Pardew being behind the sacking for a few weeks now, whether that is for gambling debts, or being friends with the two, he more than likely has had this job lined up for a bit. Having said that he more than likely flat out lied to everyone at the press conference when he explained how he got the job. If fans sit back and go and blindly support then we're sending an awful message out, letting Ashley do whatever he wants without consequence. No one should be forced to support Pardew, regardless of what the national media thinks, this is our club and we'll support the players forever, but that doesn't mean we'll support the manager or owner.

[Dr Venkman]

OP is positively dripping with stupidity

[Wil]

If Pardew indeed had the job lined up some time ago, admitting that at a press conference would have created absolute mayhem and in my view a worse fallout than saying what he did. He was no doubt being "economical with the truth" by referring to the formal offer he presumably received after Hughton was finally sacked. Everyone knows how deals are done in football - managers and players alike - but no-one ever admits it. I can't remember an instance, anyway. I'm trying to see it like that, rather than him "lying to the fans".

[Mick]

 

I didn't say that, though.

 

When will some people get their brains out of neutral?

 

Your idea that you are now "vindicated" in believing Ashley is acting out of pure spite is particularly laughable.

 

I don't think Ashley is acting out of spite, I think he's so arrogant that he thinks he can do no wrong and that will not be helped by having yes men around him, he's a prick either way. 

[Wullie]

Pardew has been willing us to lose since October so he could get his grubby hands on the job. How anyone can back him is beyond me. Hope he does ring Chris "Howton" up to ask for advice and is told to fuck right off.

[Dr Venkman]

Everyone of us has their own conspiracy theory of how and why Hughton was sacked and Pardew employed, but at the end of the day none of us has a shred of evidence to support those sometimes wild and bordering on libellous theories, other than circumstances that could at best be described as coincidences, such as the rumours that Pardew was negotiating with NUFC a month ago.  Where is the evidence of this?

 

Golfmag knew about this months ago and said so on here.

 

OK so Pardew and Llambias and Ashley have met before, but the evidence is that at best they are acquainted with each other through mutual pastimes and nothing more.  Hardly a basis for giving someone a lucrative job.

 

Golfmag knew about this months ago and said so on here, AND, you make the assumption that this 'lucrative job' has been given to pardew on the basis that other manager's job's are given, i.e. he's the best man to improve the league position of the club. The evidence suggests other-wise (before we even mention Pardew's lack of experience and the fact that Hughton was doing well) that after meeting resistance from Keegan and Hughton over player sales Ashley's hired a public face to train and pick the team leaving him to un-challenged on his priority, which is selling assets and making profit.

 

The Keegan debacle led Ashley to put the club on the market because of the hatred directed at him by the fans, but no one was interested, most said it was because Ashley was asking too high a price, but the truth is most potential buyers took one look at the vitriol generated by the fans and decided they could do without that hassle.

 

Where is your evidence that potential buyers were put off by fans? Articles and quotes about Ashley asking too much for the club are not in short supply.

 

Lets not go down that road again, because if we all know where it leads, lets prove we have learned from our past mistakes even if Ashley hasn't.

 

None of this is the fans fault and it's pretty disgusting you're suggesting so tbh, Ashley should be hounded out of NUFC asap, we'll be better for it in the long run.

[summerof69]

Crumpy man I've posted on here for nearly ten years and in that time you've wanted every single manager sacked from the off. Just as long as you know you're on record as backing this mug when we go down.

 

 

This forum has been going for 10 years ?   

[Superior Acuña]

Disagree with op. Pardew's been complicit in the removal of a manager for no reason, and he knows he wasn't appointed because he has a good track record.

[JH]

Aye, how dare we throw our toys out of the pram? I mean we've been lavished with nothing but great things this past few years

[polpolpol]

 

I didn't say that, though.

 

When will some people get their brains out of neutral?

 

Your idea that you are now "vindicated" in believing Ashley is acting out of pure spite is particularly laughable.

 

I don't think Ashley is acting out of spite, I think he's so arrogant that he thinks he can do no wrong and that will not be helped by having yes men around him, he's a prick either way. 

 

Picking through the fragments of his statements about the club, I still think Ashley's original plan was to run the club 'the fan's way': the man on the street and Mike working for good common sense against football's establishment. As we know, this fantasy went askew, cumulating in the Keegan departure.

 

The only thing you can liken this trauma to is a break-up. A life changing, never gotten over, full on, Britney and Justin-type game changer. Until last week, I honestly thought that his goal would be, in the long term, to try and engineer a rapprochement and to get back onside with the fan-base. To try and heal the split and reconstitute his original fantasy. 

 

I can see now – after the events of last week - that something has gone horribly, twistedly wrong. The vicissitudes of his desire have turned in upon themselves, and his fantasy has morphed into a narcissistic complex where he will avenge himself on those who spurned him and those who doubted him. The fans have switched position and now it is him versus the establishment and the fans. For him to succeed despite them, in spite of them. If the other will not love him, they will be made to respect him – and, in his childish fantasy, how does he think he can do this? Through his possession of and manipulation of things.

 

Make no mistake about it, this is the story of a love triangle between Ashley-Fans-Club. And when he bought into it, he didn't want to steal the club from the fans, but the fans from the club. Once Ashley lost the fans, he took the spiteful option of getting between them and the club.

 

I'm still trying to figure this out, but what I'm starting to think the only way we have of fighting back is not to try and ruin Ashley's enjoyment of the club – which, despite what a lot of people say, does not seem to be financial. It is tied up to the relationship between Mike's-way-of-doing-things and the establishment's (or at least what he perceives as being 'The Establishment's' (and to this extent, deflating the club – through relegation of whatever else - doesn't change anything. It just means the bar will be lowered for whatever is considered success)) -  but to reaffirm our enjoyment of the club without him. To leave him out of the game. Ideas of protests are all part of his new fantasy; what gets him hard is the idea of him and his little ideas about how things should be done being right, despite all of the naysayers. Every 'no' just adds to pleasure he thinks he will achieve when he is finally right. The guy is like a vampire of enjoyment. He sees it in us, in our relationship with the club, and he wants it for himself or he wants to destroy it.

 

So taking our money out of the club is useful insofar as it introduces the real to his fantasy, working to destabilise it. But the real solution is to love Newcastle in ways which exclude him. Entirely. To leave him on the outside, looking in at the thing he will never possess. Whether that takes the form of groups of ex-season ticket holders colonising pubs on matchdays to watch the game on their own terms, or production of un-offical merchandise, or proliferation of supporters clubs and other community groups, whatever else, that might be the way to get rid of him. I'm not sure where the solution lies. But the problem isn't that we're confronted by some kind of Scrooge McDuck, a monster of capital. No, this man is Pepe Le Pew, Miss Piggy; an angry, deluded loser. We need to treat him as such.

[Vinny Green Balls]

The problem is that it really isn't worth getting relegated to get rid of Ashley.

 

 

No kidding.

 

Is it worth putting up with utter contempt from these royal pricks anymore?  If we continue on this path, then the cycle shall be repeated ad nauseum.  Ashley has shown his spots, and they will in no way change.  How many more fucking iterations do we need to go through to finally be convinced of this?

[80]

The problem is that it really isn't worth getting relegated to get rid of Ashley.

 

Firstly, it wouldn't work because it would mean that he would be even less likely to get the price he wants to sell up.

 

And second because this time it would be much more serious than the last, with all the decent players probably leaving and us spending an untold number of years outside the top flight. We might never recover.

 

So with that in mind we should do everything we can to help the team stay up.

 

I want us to stay up, I think it's the best thing for the club if the players we have can drag us through this.

 

But - I'll say it yet again - the only reason he can stay here and demand potential buyers make offers on his terms is because of us turning up each week and giving him our money. The price he 'wants' will change big time, and it'll suddenly become much more likely that someone can meet it. So with regards 'something that'll get rid of him', relegation would play in our favour if we keep our foot on his windpipe and stop letting him take our money. BUT, as I say, I don't think it's necessary as we can still win against him as a premiership club - choking him out is the way, relegation would just be a sad force multiplier.

[OzzieMandias]

Sorry but that's just bollocks.

 

The worse state the club is in, the less likely that a buyer will be interested.

 

We've already been through one period of major fan unrest. Did it dislodge Ashley? No.

 

We've already been through one relegation. Did it bring loads of buyers out of the woodwork? Of course it fucking didn't.

[Parky]

 

I didn't say that, though.

 

When will some people get their brains out of neutral?

 

Your idea that you are now "vindicated" in believing Ashley is acting out of pure spite is particularly laughable.

 

I don't think Ashley is acting out of spite, I think he's so arrogant that he thinks he can do no wrong and that will not be helped by having yes men around him, he's a prick either way. 

 

Picking through the fragments of his statements about the club, I still think Ashley's original plan was to run the club 'the fan's way': the man on the street and Mike working for good common sense against football's establishment. As we know, this fantasy went askew, cumulating in the Keegan departure.

 

The only thing you can liken this trauma to is a break-up. A life changing, never gotten over, full on, Britney and Justin-type game changer. Until last week, I honestly thought that his goal would be, in the long term, to try and engineer a rapprochement and to get back onside with the fan-base. To try and heal the split and reconstitute his original fantasy. 

 

I can see now – after the events of last week - that something has gone horribly, twistedly wrong. The vicissitudes of his desire have turned in upon themselves, and his fantasy has morphed into a narcissistic complex where he will avenge himself on those who spurned him and those who doubted him. The fans have switched position and now it is him versus the establishment and the fans. For him to succeed despite them, in spite of them. If the other will not love him, they will be made to respect him – and, in his childish fantasy, how does he think he can do this? Through his possession of and manipulation of things.

 

Make no mistake about it, this is the story of a love triangle between Ashley-Fans-Club. And when he bought into it, he didn't want to steal the club from the fans, but the fans from the club. Once Ashley lost the fans, he took the spiteful option of getting between them and the club.

 

I'm still trying to figure this out, but what I'm starting to think the only way we have of fighting back is not to try and ruin Ashley's enjoyment of the club – which, despite what a lot of people say, does not seem to be financial. It is tied up to the relationship between Mike's-way-of-doing-things and the establishment's (or at least what he perceives as being 'The Establishment's' (and to this extent, deflating the club – through relegation of whatever else - doesn't change anything. It just means the bar will be lowered for whatever is considered success)) -  but to reaffirm our enjoyment of the club without him. To leave him out of the game. Ideas of protests are all part of his new fantasy; what gets him hard is the idea of him and his little ideas about how things should be done being right, despite all of the naysayers. Every 'no' just adds to pleasure he thinks he will achieve when he is finally right. The guy is like a vampire of enjoyment. He sees it in us, in our relationship with the club, and he wants it for himself or he wants to destroy it.

 

So taking our money out of the club is useful insofar as it introduces the real to his fantasy, working to destabilise it. But the real solution is to love Newcastle in ways which exclude him. Entirely. To leave him on the outside, looking in at the thing he will never possess. Whether that takes the form of groups of ex-season ticket holders colonising pubs on matchdays to watch the game on their own terms, or production of un-offical merchandise, or proliferation of supporters clubs and other community groups, whatever else, that might be the way to get rid of him. I'm not sure where the solution lies. But the problem isn't that we're confronted by some kind of Scrooge McDuck, a monster of capital. No, this man is Pepe Le Pew, Miss Piggy; an angry, deluded loser. We need to treat him as such.

 

 

 

Mashleys first goal is stopping the club losing money and bringing financial stability (he's well on the way) to his investment (otherwise selling is a lot harder). With respect to this he is looking for a low maintenance squad that has enough about it to survive in the PL this season. The problem with this strategy is that it is high risk with no long term benefits as such (mainly if your rivals continue to spend, you continue to fall behind competitively).

 

 

With guys like MA you have to look hard for clues and they tend to come in two forms: Ego defence (hiring and sacking KK, buying beers, wearing the Smith shirt). Business instinct (cutting costs, looking for players with contractual issues, re-writing the rulebook regarding managerial contracts and going against precedent).

 

 

If I was a business competitor of MA I would always keep one eye on him, cause although he comes across as furtive and reckless he has a strong survival instinct and isn't interested in playing by the rules (he's laid waste to the sector in which he does his core business and made a lot of cash out of just being ultra destructive to his competition. These kinds of guys are always dangerous and when things go for them the are often unstoppable.

 

 

But........What has happened here is that he has entered a buseiness arena (football) which he had no clue about (but shows of being a slow learner/stubborn). He made two catastrophic erros ie no due dilligance and underestimating how much football is a good will (customer led) market. That it thrives on expectation and is one of the sole outlets left in England of true male identification with himself, his surrounding and his peer groups. The latter is the hardest for Mashely to understand because he is a true loner, a renegade who has by his own guile made good.

 

 

It is a real tragedy for our club that Ashley has the wrong character traits for football, but the right ones for pure business. He has failed to understand his public and this will be his ultimate downfall. Because he can't change.

[80]

Sorry but that's just bollocks.

 

1. The worse state the club is in, the less likely that a buyer will be interested.

 

2. We've already been through one period of major fan unrest. Did it dislodge Ashley? No.

 

3. We've already been through one relegation. Did it bring loads of buyers out of the woodwork? Of course it fucking didn't.

 

No, that's bollocks.

 

1. Basic economics - price also alters buyer interest. Offer me a 1996 BMW 5 Series diesel with 200k on the clock for £15k 'because that includes how much you've spent to keep it running over the years' and I'm not interested. Offer me it for £500 and you're on.

 

2. The unrest was fleeting, bewildered, confused and ultimately docile. As I've effectively argued over and over again here, a repeat of that truly will be worthless at best. It was nothing like what I now advocate.

 

3. Take your head out of 2005's arse and you'll read better. Predication - IF we act as I say we should, Ashley's priorities will have severely changed and a future relegation would be quantitatively different to the last one where we DID NOT act as I say we now should. No one would try and draw lessons from one experience and apply them to a totally different one unless they don't know what they're talking about. Buyers will buy at the right price, and this is fundamentally a much fitter company now.

 

Funnily enough I started to write earlier today that you're so overcommitted to the 'Anyone But Shepherds and Halls' brigade it's embarrassing, but had to go out and abandoned the post. You invested so much of your life in groundhog day internet arguments with NE5 about why they had to go that you're afraid to let yourself think there might be someone else as bad if not worse. So you don't think, you don't actually engage with anything anyone says, you just post smart, trite shite and punch straw men instead.