How much will we spend this summer (should we stay up :))? NET

[Punk77]

 

Not the worst idea put forward on this board, you'll be accused of accepting the club's lack of ambition though.

 

I do not think my above "plan" is a lack of ambition. One of the main problem with this club and its fans, has been the lack of patience and consistency. Both want success now, rather than later through building stone by stone. A  consequence of this thinking has been the all in mentality regarding transfers: Believing that one or two very expensive players will save the day, ignoring the dangers that I mentioned in my previous post. As a result, the focus on talent development was non-existent because the club had not patience to wait for those young ones to develop. And that again led to us needing to buy almost every player. This mentality also led the club to fire managers like there was no day tomorrow: No instant success?Get out of here!

 

Also,  I think a inferiority complex existed inside the club and exist still amongst some fans. They think that there's a correlation between club size/ambition and how much money you spend on players. And this pressure has in particular come from fans, which earlier led  the club  to buying big names, in hoping that will silence the frenzy. IMO, that is wrongful thinking.  That the club at last (in my opinion) has decided that it wants success, but only through continuity, talent development and a sound economical base does not mean that it is less ambitious that before. Quite the contrary.  Now the club displays a sound strategy for how it's going to achieve it. Fat Fred had no strategy. He hurled money out the window and rewarded himself handsomely, despite the fact that he knew how terrible the economical state the club was in. That not ambition, that's jeopardizing the longevity of the club.

 

MA has done some bad mistakes. But all this was put in motion by Fred Shepard. But I actually like the direction the club now is going. Thanks to the likes of Carr, we're now able to find talents cheaply without paying over the top, which we did before. I will accept another Carroll sale again, because this will put the club in a very good economical position, which again enables the club to bring more of its sound sports strategy into life.  Thus there's a correlation between economical base and how you're able to achieve success on the fieldAnd this important since more and more clubs have ignored this fact, and now are in pretty bad shape. And unlike earlier days, the money received will be spent wisely on talent that only can increase in value.  The main point is that MA tries to enable the club to stand on its own feet, without the support of a rich owner. That's not bad at all if you ask me. Chelsea and City are going in the reverse direction. And that is ruining the league imo. Conclusion: Some fans are bloody negative, stop that.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Shepherd and Ashley are both gamblers in their own way, Shepherd gambled that he could make the club a regular top 4 team and continue to bring in the income associated with that.

 

Ashley gambled he could keep us up on the cheap. He didn't, but in the end relegation didn't really harm us at all... even though at the time it seemed like a disaster.

 

I agree with Punk77 basically, but a lot depends on the kinds of signings we can come up with under the new policy.

 

Even the question in the OP seems to assume that spending more is better. When in fact spending smarter is better... as we've proved with some of our terrible signings in the past.

[Guest Antec]

 

Not the worst idea put forward on this board, you'll be accused of accepting the club's lack of ambition though.

 

I do not think my above "plan" is a lack of ambition. One of the main problem with this club and its fans, has been the lack of patience and consistency. Both want success now, rather than later through building stone by stone. A  consequence of this thinking has been the all in mentality regarding transfers: Believing that one or two very expensive players will save the day, ignoring the dangers that I mentioned in my previous post.

 

Stopped reading after that weapons-grade horseshite

[AyeDubbleYoo]

 

Not the worst idea put forward on this board, you'll be accused of accepting the club's lack of ambition though.

 

I do not think my above "plan" is a lack of ambition. One of the main problem with this club and its fans, has been the lack of patience and consistency. Both want success now, rather than later through building stone by stone. A  consequence of this thinking has been the all in mentality regarding transfers: Believing that one or two very expensive players will save the day, ignoring the dangers that I mentioned in my previous post.

 

Stopped reading after that weapons-grade horseshite

 

Maybe you should read through and try to respond with an actual argument.

[Big Geordie]

I'll be amazed if;

 

Tiote and Enrique are retained and are given new deals

All of the Carroll fee being reinvested as well as extra from TV income

 

In reality, both of the above will be sold with around £15million spent on new player whilst our glorious owner pockets the rest.

[merlin]

I think Enrique and Tiote will be sold. We'll get about £20m for the pair of them so add that on to the £35m from Carroll means we'll be going some to spend anything (net) this summer.

 

£55m in and perhaps £15m out to replace the three of them. One or two Bosmans, one or two loans in to pad the squad out and everyone's a winner. Especially Ashley.

 

Howay, we'll get more than £20 million for the pair of them. Will be gutted if we sell them though - would be testament to the lack of ambition from the owners.

 

OK then £25m. More money in the bank.

 

I actually think that we will get more than 25m for both Tiote and Enrique...my money is on 20m for Tiote and 12 for Enrique ; however, this is dependent on Chelsea bidding for Tiote. If only Man U or Liverpool go for him you can reduce that by 5m

[Guest Antec]

 

Not the worst idea put forward on this board, you'll be accused of accepting the club's lack of ambition though.

 

I do not think my above "plan" is a lack of ambition. One of the main problem with this club and its fans, has been the lack of patience and consistency. Both want success now, rather than later through building stone by stone. A  consequence of this thinking has been the all in mentality regarding transfers: Believing that one or two very expensive players will save the day, ignoring the dangers that I mentioned in my previous post.

 

Stopped reading after that weapons-grade horseshite

 

Maybe you should read through and try to respond with an actual argument.

 

Maybe I shouldn't bother after reading the bit I quoted which was clearly bollocks

[Guest aoliversaknob]

The Vile Owner will look at things and think

 

1.  we finished in mid table even tho everyone had us set for the drop

 

2.  lots of evidence that the high wages/fees are buggering other clubs

 

3.   we're getting gates up to 51,000 when the rest of the dross are getting 24,000 = we have a significant cash flow advantage

 

4.   steady as she goes -

 

5.   no big buys that will inflate the wage bill

 

6.   sell anyone if £ 15 mm is offered

 

7.  buy some cover at <£ 10mm

 

8.  Aim to finish top 7 which will keep the credulous fools on the terraces in a state of hope

 

9.  pray economic situation turns round and a buyer turns up

 

 

That is the fat mans game plan right there in black and white!

 

Plus

 

10) Sell Enrique and Tiote for 25mill and spend 10mill on replacements - leading to another 15 mill net of the 100mill loan Ashley has with the club. (which can be added to the 70% of the Carrol fee that will also be used to reduce the his debt to himself)

 

11)  Use number 10 to facilitate number 9 by reducing the additional 100mil loan that would need to be paid to Fat Mike for the club to be sold.

[Dave]

 

Not the worst idea put forward on this board, you'll be accused of accepting the club's lack of ambition though.

 

I do not think my above "plan" is a lack of ambition. One of the main problem with this club and its fans, has been the lack of patience and consistency. Both want success now, rather than later through building stone by stone. A  consequence of this thinking has been the all in mentality regarding transfers: Believing that one or two very expensive players will save the day, ignoring the dangers that I mentioned in my previous post.

 

Stopped reading after that weapons-grade horseshite

 

 

Same.

[Optimistic Nut]

Rob, at this time where it'll take a shitload of investment to break the top 6, is there really much of a problem with that model you've typed out?

[AyeDubbleYoo]

 

Not the worst idea put forward on this board, you'll be accused of accepting the club's lack of ambition though.

 

I do not think my above "plan" is a lack of ambition. One of the main problem with this club and its fans, has been the lack of patience and consistency. Both want success now, rather than later through building stone by stone. A  consequence of this thinking has been the all in mentality regarding transfers: Believing that one or two very expensive players will save the day, ignoring the dangers that I mentioned in my previous post.

 

Stopped reading after that weapons-grade horseshite

 

Maybe you should read through and try to respond with an actual argument.

 

Maybe I

 

Sorry, stopped reading after that toss.

[Stu]

In reality, both of the above will be sold with around £15million spent on new player whilst our glorious owner pockets the rest.

 

I'm not too au fait with these business dealings, can you explain to me how Ashley would transfer the rest of the Carroll + Tiote and/or Enrique transfer money into his own pocket? Does the club just write him a cheque?

[bealios]

 

Not the worst idea put forward on this board, you'll be accused of accepting the club's lack of ambition though.

 

I do not think my above "plan" is a lack of ambition. One of the main problem with this club and its fans, has been the lack of patience and consistency. Both want success now, rather than later through building stone by stone.   A  consequence of this thinking has been the all in mentality regarding transfers: Believing that one or two very expensive players will save the day, ignoring the dangers that I mentioned in my previous post.

 

Stopped reading after that weapons-grade horseshite

 

The fact that we're sitting in the top half of the Premier League in mid February and the mood on this board at times is suicidal would suggest that this statement isn't completely horeshit, despite how uncomfortable that may be.

[colinmk]

 

Not the worst idea put forward on this board, you'll be accused of accepting the club's lack of ambition though.

 

I do not think my above "plan" is a lack of ambition. One of the main problem with this club and its fans, has been the lack of patience and consistency. Both want success now, rather than later through building stone by stone. A  consequence of this thinking has been the all in mentality regarding transfers: Believing that one or two very expensive players will save the day, ignoring the dangers that I mentioned in my previous post.

 

Stopped reading after that weapons-grade horseshite

 

 

Same.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

 

Not the worst idea put forward on this board, you'll be accused of accepting the club's lack of ambition though.

 

I do not think my above "plan" is a lack of ambition. One of the main problem with this club and its fans, has been the lack of patience and consistency. Both want success now, rather than later through building stone by stone. A  consequence of this thinking has been the all in mentality regarding transfers: Believing that one or two very expensive players will save the day, ignoring the dangers that I mentioned in my previous post.

 

Stopped reading after that weapons-grade horseshite

 

 

Same.

 

Well aren't you lot cool.

[80]

The first two paragraphs are are hackneyed and inaccurate. The post reads like it was written in a faux-ivory tower, with those living below characterised as Shepherd-loving ape-men. As such, I would think it's Punk who could be accused of not giving due consideration to what other people have been saying.

[Dr. Nguyen Van Falk]

Bring in Gattusso to replace Tiote

[UV]

Shepherd and Ashley are both gamblers in their own way, Shepherd gambled that he could make the club a regular top 4 team and continue to bring in the income associated with that.

 

Ashley gambled he could keep us up on the cheap. He didn't, but in the end relegation didn't really harm us at all... even though at the time it seemed like a disaster.

 

I agree with Punk77 basically, but a lot depends on the kinds of signings we can come up with under the new policy.

 

Even the question in the OP seems to assume that spending more is better. When in fact spending smarter is better... as we've proved with some of our terrible signings in the past.

 

Owner/Chairman A + Manager B + transfer spend > Owner/Chairman A + Manager B - transfer spend

 

It's not aerospace engineering.

[Rob W]

Rob, at this time where it'll take a shitload of investment to break the top 6, is there really much of a problem with that model you've typed out?

 

TBH if it was MY money in the club that's what I'd do as well

[Rob W]

The first two paragraphs are are hackneyed and inaccurate. The post reads like it was written in a faux-ivory tower, with those living below characterised as Shepherd-loving ape-men. As such, I would think it's Punk who could be accused of not giving due consideration to what other people have been saying.

 

Don't knock Fat Fred

 

if he was still in charge he'd probably have sold Smith to Barca in January for £ 50mm

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Shepherd and Ashley are both gamblers in their own way, Shepherd gambled that he could make the club a regular top 4 team and continue to bring in the income associated with that.

 

Ashley gambled he could keep us up on the cheap. He didn't, but in the end relegation didn't really harm us at all... even though at the time it seemed like a disaster.

 

I agree with Punk77 basically, but a lot depends on the kinds of signings we can come up with under the new policy.

 

Even the question in the OP seems to assume that spending more is better. When in fact spending smarter is better... as we've proved with some of our terrible signings in the past.

 

Owner/Chairman A + Manager B + transfer spend > Owner/Chairman A + Manager B - transfer spend

 

It's not aerospace engineering.

 

Assuming the transfer spend goes on players that improves us, I agree. And assuming that improvement leads to enough success to sustain the spending.

 

But that was the point I already made, I guess you were simplifying the position on purpose to be condescending.

[Kevo]

Why does everyone dislike Ashley within the transfer market so much? (serious question).

[BottledDog]

Why does everyone dislike Ashley within the transfer market so much? (serious question).

 

It an odd one, he's signed some absolutely cracking players in his short time here.

[Wil]

Shepherd and Ashley are both gamblers in their own way, Shepherd gambled that he could make the club a regular top 4 team and continue to bring in the income associated with that.

 

Ashley gambled he could keep us up on the cheap. He didn't, but in the end relegation didn't really harm us at all... even though at the time it seemed like a disaster.

 

I agree with Punk77 basically, but a lot depends on the kinds of signings we can come up with under the new policy.

 

Even the question in the OP seems to assume that spending more is better. When in fact spending smarter is better... as we've proved with some of our terrible signings in the past.

 

Seems to me the gamble here is on our scouts continuing to come up with gems like Tiote and Ben Arfa.

It's all very well trying to do an Arsenal, but is there any evidence of Ashley putting any money into our scouting system? - which you would think would be part of the "plan".

Not that Graham Carr's done a bad job, mind.

 

 

[Punk77]

Shepherd and Ashley are both gamblers in their own way, Shepherd gambled that he could make the club a regular top 4 team and continue to bring in the income associated with that.

 

Ashley gambled he could keep us up on the cheap. He didn't, but in the end relegation didn't really harm us at all... even though at the time it seemed like a disaster.

 

I agree with Punk77 basically, but a lot depends on the kinds of signings we can come up with under the new policy.

 

Even the question in the OP seems to assume that spending more is better. When in fact spending smarter is better... as we've proved with some of our terrible signings in the past.

 

Agree. The ending of this season and which players that are brought in will be highly decisive, both for the mood amongst supporters and players. Finish mid table and bring in some very good prospects, and I really believe we will keep all our key players.  And as already mentioned, we've fared quite well on the transfer market. If all these factors come true, and I will have very high hopes for the next season.

 

And for those with the Mike pocketing all the money theory: He has no incentive what so ever to do that. If he sells his main assets (the best players), he will have some yes, but remember that the club's value will be reduced accordingly. He's not able to sell a club that is in debt and got only shitty players. Also, selling key players will affect his chances of stabilizing the club in PL, and may also has ramifications for the club's survival in the league. A relegation is much much worse case scenario for him. And that scenario is avoided by keeping the likes of Tiote etc. Consequently, MA will not sell Enrique, unless a)the lad refuses to sign a new contract or b)demands a ludicrous wage demand or c) he's offered an insane sum which counterweight the risk involved and enables him to sign proper replacements..