Football's greatest - where does Lionel Messi rank?

[Flip]

You see Messi, and I mean the poster, that shows how your unknowledgabe. Ronaldinho more entertaining than Garrincha? Let alone Rivellino, the king of the dribbles? No way.

[Cronky]

One quality that I think separates Messi from the other greats is his temperament. He never seems to lose his enthusiasm or his focus. All the time on the pitch, it's like he's itching to get involved. He doesn't cheat, moan at his team-mates, get discouraged, angry or intimidated.

[ponsaelius]

You really saying you've watched them enough to say that?

[Flip]

You really saying you've watched them enough to say that?

 

I was taking the piss with Messi. But aye, for me I've seen enough of their matches to think that. Maybe I'm biased towards Rivellino being a Corinthians fan, but the man is considered with Garrincha the king of the dribbles.

[Mole_Toonfan]

He doesn't cheat.

 

[Cronky]

He doesn't cheat.

 

 

Okay. I was meaning he's not a diver. Unlike CR.

[Froggy]

Cronaldo is absolutely one of the best ever for me. Messi is a class above, but fucking hell, Ronaldos level is absolutely incredible and I think it does speak a lot that he's done it in England as well. 42 in 47 the year we won the CL. The tag that he doesn't score in big games was incredibly off the mark as well. Someone else also said he doesn't have an all round game? That is lunacy. He is a physical machine who scores a massive amount of goals, is lightning fast, can cross, can dribble, can take free kicks, can score penalties and can head the ball extremely well.

 

He's getting under-rated now because of Messi, which is nothing but stupidity. Of course he's one of the best ever.

[Guest]

Cronaldo is absolutely one of the best ever for me. Messi is a class above, but f***ing hell, Ronaldos level is absolutely incredible and I think it does speak a lot that he's done it in England as well. 42 in 47 the year we won the CL. The tag that he doesn't score in big games was incredibly off the mark as well. Someone else also said he doesn't have an all round game? That is lunacy. He is a physical machine who scores a massive amount of goals, is lightning fast, can cross, can dribble, can take free kicks, can score penalties and can head the ball extremely well.

 

He's getting under-rated now because of Messi, which is nothing but stupidity. Of course he's one of the best ever.

 

[GuyP]

Just interested, and i know there is a thread of this nature, but how highly to people rate Kaka'? He was literally the best in the world for a year and generally was the best in his position for a little while longer. Is the fact he burned out around his move to Madrid the reason he wont be considered a great? He had a bit of everything like! Such a graceful player when moving, yet had the power to drive forward and lead attacks at pace. I say "had" as if he has retired

[Froggy]

Just interested, and i know there is a thread of this nature, but how highly to people rate Kaka'? He was literally the best in the world for a year and generally was the best in his position for a little while longer. Is the fact he burned out around his move to Madrid the reason he wont be considered a great? He had a bit of everything like! Such a graceful player when moving, yet had the power to drive forward and lead attacks at pace. I say "had" as if he has retired

 

Devastating ability and another player who was virtually unstoppable at his peak. Said before on here when we played against him in the CL, we were absolutely helpless. We could generally deal with Milan everywhere else on the park but where he went, magic happened. His pace with the ball at his feet was dynamite and he was extremely intelligent. The goal where he heads the ball between two of our defenders is an example of his determination, composure and overall genius as a whole. He was doing that for fun for the best part of two years.

 

Loved him in his prime, and was sad to see his decline.

[Tooj]

Just interested, and i know there is a thread of this nature, but how highly to people rate Kaka'? He was literally the best in the world for a year and generally was the best in his position for a little while longer. Is the fact he burned out around his move to Madrid the reason he wont be considered a great? He had a bit of everything like! Such a graceful player when moving, yet had the power to drive forward and lead attacks at pace. I say "had" as if he has retired

The injuries ruined him even before he went to Real sadly, was great to watch in his prime though.

 

I'm also now willing to stick my neck out and say that Iniesta is as good as Zidane was, maybe even better due to the consistency that he shows and the fact that he has a better temperament.

[Froggy]

Just interested, and i know there is a thread of this nature, but how highly to people rate Kaka'? He was literally the best in the world for a year and generally was the best in his position for a little while longer. Is the fact he burned out around his move to Madrid the reason he wont be considered a great? He had a bit of everything like! Such a graceful player when moving, yet had the power to drive forward and lead attacks at pace. I say "had" as if he has retired

The injuries ruined him even before he went to Real sadly, was great to watch in his prime though.

 

I'm also now willing to stick my neck out and say that Iniesta is as good as Zidane was, maybe even better due to the consistency that he shows and the fact that he has a better temperament.

 

 

Iniesta is incredible. Such incredible close control and vision. In the last few weeks he's been in absolutely scintillating form as well, as good as Messi. He also has a knack of scoring extremely important goals, i.e. Chelsea in Champions League, World Cup Final etc.

 

Easily the third best player in the World.

[Taylor Swift]

Kaka was brilliant but his injuries ruined him just when he was peaking. It's a case of what could have been for him. His skill on the ball, off the ball and his vision was sublime. He had the vision of a central midfielder and the physicality of the winger, he was the complete package, the modern day footballer who could do it all: pass, dribble, shoot.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

They could use Iniesta videos as therapy on me like... I could watch him play for days.

[Guest neesy111]

They could use Iniesta videos as therapy on me like... I could watch him play for days.

 

[Flip]

Cronaldo is absolutely one of the best ever for me. Messi is a class above, but f***ing hell, Ronaldos level is absolutely incredible and I think it does speak a lot that he's done it in England as well. 42 in 47 the year we won the CL. The tag that he doesn't score in big games was incredibly off the mark as well. Someone else also said he doesn't have an all round game? That is lunacy. He is a physical machine who scores a massive amount of goals, is lightning fast, can cross, can dribble, can take free kicks, can score penalties and can head the ball extremely well.

 

He's getting under-rated now because of Messi, which is nothing but stupidity. Of course he's one of the best ever.

 

The thing is for me Zidane, Platini, Cruyff, Di Stefano, Ronaldo, Romario, Beckenbauer, Garrincha, Zico were all better players then him. CRonaldo might fit into the top 40 best of all time or so on, but he's never going into a list of top 20 greatest players to grace the game.

 

He doesn't have that talent about him, he's more of a machine. Also love how you put 'can score penalties' as a positive thing. Dude, anyone can score penalties ffs.

[Taylor Swift]

Ronaldo is better than Fat Ronaldo and Romario. I'd take him over those two in a greatness argument, one because of injury and the other just because Romario never had a peak like Cristiano's.

 

Personally, I'm not a big fan of international records. You play 5-7 games once every two summers and somehow that should dwarf playing 60 games a year, year in year out? Nah. Club performance will always be the greater factor. That's why you don't hear stuff like Klose is the best striker ever. International matches can be used to augment an argument but it shouldn't be the big factor that it is today if you're a serious football fan who follows stuff seasonally, rather than the average Joe who tunes in every four years for the WC.

[mrmojorisin75]

Cronaldo is absolutely one of the best ever for me. Messi is a class above, but fucking hell, Ronaldos level is absolutely incredible and I think it does speak a lot that he's done it in England as well. 42 in 47 the year we won the CL. The tag that he doesn't score in big games was incredibly off the mark as well. Someone else also said he doesn't have an all round game? That is lunacy. He is a physical machine who scores a massive amount of goals, is lightning fast, can cross, can dribble, can take free kicks, can score penalties and can head the ball extremely well.

 

He's getting under-rated now because of Messi, which is nothing but stupidity. Of course he's one of the best ever.

 

the bit in bold

 

first part was a fact 'til recently, second part you're only listing physical/individual attributes really and "crossing" which he's never been noted for

 

cronaldo is an amazing physical specimen with fantastic footwork and finishing for his size, but that's literally it...he is several leagues below the likes of messi in terms of all round game

[Hanshithispantz]

Cronaldo is absolutely one of the best ever for me. Messi is a class above, but fucking hell, Ronaldos level is absolutely incredible and I think it does speak a lot that he's done it in England as well. 42 in 47 the year we won the CL. The tag that he doesn't score in big games was incredibly off the mark as well. Someone else also said he doesn't have an all round game? That is lunacy. He is a physical machine who scores a massive amount of goals, is lightning fast, can cross, can dribble, can take free kicks, can score penalties and can head the ball extremely well.

 

He's getting under-rated now because of Messi, which is nothing but stupidity. Of course he's one of the best ever.

 

the bit in bold

 

first part was a fact 'til recently, second part you're only listing physical/individual attributes really and "crossing" which he's never been noted for

 

cronaldo is an amazing physical specimen with fantastic footwork and finishing for his size, but that's literally it...he is several leagues below the likes of messi in terms of all round game

Fucking hell.

[mrmojorisin75]

Cronaldo is absolutely one of the best ever for me. Messi is a class above, but fucking hell, Ronaldos level is absolutely incredible and I think it does speak a lot that he's done it in England as well. 42 in 47 the year we won the CL. The tag that he doesn't score in big games was incredibly off the mark as well. Someone else also said he doesn't have an all round game? That is lunacy. He is a physical machine who scores a massive amount of goals, is lightning fast, can cross, can dribble, can take free kicks, can score penalties and can head the ball extremely well.

 

He's getting under-rated now because of Messi, which is nothing but stupidity. Of course he's one of the best ever.

 

the bit in bold

 

first part was a fact 'til recently, second part you're only listing physical/individual attributes really and "crossing" which he's never been noted for

 

cronaldo is an amazing physical specimen with fantastic footwork and finishing for his size, but that's literally it...he is several leagues below the likes of messi in terms of all round game

Fucking hell.

 

sorry but am i wrong?  he scores insane amounts of goals, crazy amounts, but that's all you get from him

 

not saying there's anything wrong with that, he's just not in the league of messi etc.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Ronaldo is fantastic no doubt, he just doesn't appeal to my view of football as much as someone like Iniesta. I've barely seen him play since he left Man Utd though, so I wouldn't attempt to say how he fits into the all time greats.

[Neil]

Cronaldo is certainly not currently in the very top bracket of the greatest players ever - i.e. Messi, Pele, Maradona and so on.

 

He is, as mojo says, a highly tuned physical specimen with a tremendous eye for goal. That's what he is, a damn fast, strong, agile beast who once at full pace is very, very hard to stop. But he's just not on Messi's (and others') level.

 

Watch a typical Real Madrid game. Ronaldo's only real way of getting past people is using his raw pace, i.e. requiring space. He doesn't have anywhere near the same skill as other greats have had at changing direction in small spaces and thus creating chances. 30-35 yards out and in a tight spot, you still think with the very greatest there is danger. With Ronaldo, not so much. When he is using skill, what does he achieve? Quite often very little. That's not a clichéd comment IMO, his backheels etc often create nothing other than looking nice, or it moves the play sideways. He doesn't have the ability of a Messi to evade numerous challenges.

 

Actually, Froggy, you've said it better than I could. He's a physical machine. And that, somewhat oddly, is why he isn't one of the very greatest.

[Hanshithispantz]

Cronaldo is absolutely one of the best ever for me. Messi is a class above, but fucking hell, Ronaldos level is absolutely incredible and I think it does speak a lot that he's done it in England as well. 42 in 47 the year we won the CL. The tag that he doesn't score in big games was incredibly off the mark as well. Someone else also said he doesn't have an all round game? That is lunacy. He is a physical machine who scores a massive amount of goals, is lightning fast, can cross, can dribble, can take free kicks, can score penalties and can head the ball extremely well.

 

He's getting under-rated now because of Messi, which is nothing but stupidity. Of course he's one of the best ever.

 

the bit in bold

 

first part was a fact 'til recently, second part you're only listing physical/individual attributes really and "crossing" which he's never been noted for

 

cronaldo is an amazing physical specimen with fantastic footwork and finishing for his size, but that's literally it...he is several leagues below the likes of messi in terms of all round game

Fucking hell.

 

sorry but am i wrong?  he scores insane amounts of goals, crazy amounts, but that's all you get from him

 

not saying there's anything wrong with that, he's just not in the league of messi etc.

I think you were originally describing Gareth Bale.

 

The reason he scores a crazy amount of goals is because he's not just a superior physical specimen with fast footwork and finishing for his size. His positioning is excellent and he's one of the best (if not the best) in the world at using his pace and timing his runs, he has an excellent footballing brain. The rest of his game is also way above average.

 

He isn't as good as Messi, but he is one of the best footballers we've ever seen.

[mrmojorisin75]

Cronaldo is absolutely one of the best ever for me. Messi is a class above, but fucking hell, Ronaldos level is absolutely incredible and I think it does speak a lot that he's done it in England as well. 42 in 47 the year we won the CL. The tag that he doesn't score in big games was incredibly off the mark as well. Someone else also said he doesn't have an all round game? That is lunacy. He is a physical machine who scores a massive amount of goals, is lightning fast, can cross, can dribble, can take free kicks, can score penalties and can head the ball extremely well.

 

He's getting under-rated now because of Messi, which is nothing but stupidity. Of course he's one of the best ever.

 

the bit in bold

 

first part was a fact 'til recently, second part you're only listing physical/individual attributes really and "crossing" which he's never been noted for

 

cronaldo is an amazing physical specimen with fantastic footwork and finishing for his size, but that's literally it...he is several leagues below the likes of messi in terms of all round game

Fucking hell.

 

sorry but am i wrong?  he scores insane amounts of goals, crazy amounts, but that's all you get from him

 

not saying there's anything wrong with that, he's just not in the league of messi etc.

I think you were originally describing Gareth Bale.

 

The reason he scores a crazy amount of goals is because he's not just a superior physical specimen with fast footwork and finishing for his size. His positioning is excellent and he's one of the best (if not the best) in the world at using his pace and timing his runs, he has an excellent footballing brain. The rest of his game is also way above average.

 

He isn't as good as Messi, but he is one of the best footballers we've ever seen.

 

no, personally i don't agree agree with this at all

[Village Idiot]

Cronaldo has become a more limited player that he has potential for, in my opinion. There's been the odd Real Madrid game where he's pulled off some great passing than makes me wonder why he doesn't do that more often. His greed is what makes him tick as a player, but also put a ceiling on what he could have achieved (not that he's achieved little).

 

His off the ball movement is amazing, by the way, one of the best in world football. He isn't just about running and hitting hard.